The Primordial Off-Season Adventure of Snags (V2.0 of course)

snagencyV2.0

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thread under construction (like me)..be patient, details coming soon..

in the meantime, couple pics of me current.





and, of course, food pic to kick things off..lil 250cal snack here this afternoon.
(dem baby bellas sautéed in butter & red wine are just to die for) :food:

 
bolt10

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In for this new log. ;)
 
bean5er

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In brotha

Sent from my iPhone using Am.com
 
AZMIDLYF

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Cool, want to watch how a lean bulk should be done.
 

snagencyV2.0

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welcome, all.
great to have you.

Cool, want to watch how a lean bulk should be done.
and that is EXACTLY what we are doing here. ;)
i aim to be as meticulous in my off-season fare as i (usually) am in my contest preps -- and we all know, that's some serious anality. :D
right now, weighing in ~188ish (upon rising), still pretty lean from the show..running Primordial's Testosterone Recovery Stack (~22 days in) combined with clomid, and let me say: that group of products has been an eye opener. no problems have surfaced in my transition from running steroidal products to current, it has been a joy. in fact -- that is partially what inspired me to run this log, the fact that once i began training again i sense i am primed for some serious growth. i now feel healthy all over, shoulders and legs both feeling best they've felt in years, able to blast military press with no problems, able to hit all my leg movements with ease.
i just feel good! :bandit:

and so, the goal: add some muscle, remain fairly lean (at no time do i wish to exceed 8% bf, and preferably want to stay in 6-7ish range). stay healthy. and fill out what i need to on my physique for a run at the Nationals next year (those who followed my last log know i qualified for ntls in my show, placing 2nd in my class).

in the early parts here, following TRS/pct, we'll be rolling au naturale for ~6-8 weeks..at that point, i'll be pulling in Trenazone and more than likely another steroidal product (Trenavar maybe?)..we'll see how it goes.
for now, rolling along with ~3600cals on training days, and 2850-3k cals on off days..macros are roughly 40/40/20, tho i do vary the fats and carbs every couple days. i am still feeling things out calorically, but narrowing down the parameters..
(i am still mesmerized by all these veins running thru my abs, and the garden hoses down near my pelvic region) :cool:

more detail to follow as we go, including training regimen/food pics/etc. i do not intend to update this log often, since i'm here for the long haul and do not wish to turn this into a boring tome..
but - feel free to ask questions, and definitely give feedback if desired.
anything goes in here.

thanks again for following. :)
 
AZMIDLYF

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Very nice! I've had my eye on both of those Tren products for some time now.
 
Celorza

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running Primordial's Testosterone Recovery Stack (~22 days in) combined with clomid, and let me say: that group of products has been an eye opener. no problems have surfaced in my transition from running steroidal products to current, it has been a joy.
I'll be quoting this next time someone posts up in Anabolics that they are gonna run PP stacks without SERMs in their PCTs haha. If they don't take it from a seasoned athlete that is also Sponsored by PP then they just wanna live in suppressed land :p. Always have Clomid on hand IMO.

And Sub for Meticulous and delicious food pics :D!
 

snagencyV2.0

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I'll be quoting this next time someone posts up in Anabolics that they are gonna run PP stacks without SERMs in their PCTs haha. If they don't take it from a seasoned athlete that is also Sponsored by PP then they just wanna live in suppressed land :p. Always have Clomid on hand IMO.

And Sub for Meticulous and delicious food pics :D!
it's not that i necessarily advise a SERM in every situation with Pp product..the TRS should be suitable in many scenarios.
for me - remember, not only am i an old dog, but i was also running Mechabol along with 2 other hormonal Primordial products, and did a 16-week run total overall (8 weeks AndroMASS preceeding).
for my situation, i felt it to be wise indeed.

but yes - when utilizing steroidal compounds, it is always smart to have a SERM on hand beforehand, no doubt.

welcome aboard.
 

snagencyV2.0

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food time..
postWO meal of 350cals, that comes ~45min after my postWO shake of 450cals.
6oz 96% lean beef (usually eat sirloin in off-season but got great deal on this stuff and turkey breast, so i'm loaded w/ lean meat)
on toasted Ezekiel (yes i eat Ezekiel all yr round, no other bread for me)
with manly veggies :D



quick, easy, and delicious.
 
AZMIDLYF

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Love my EZE bread too. What is in that post shake to get 450 cals by the way?
 

snagencyV2.0

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Love my EZE bread too. What is in that post shake to get 450 cals by the way?
30g isolate
50g powdered carbs (mixture of oat bran + dextrose)
1 TBS brown rice syrup (~18g more carbs)
8oz almond milk

my strategy is both slow & fast digesting carbs - not just fast.
i typically follow with a solid meal of more protein/less carbs than i did today, but i'm flexible. :D
 
Jim2542

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What are the sides like with the PP products? I've always wondered because they are so much more expensive than regular PH. I've seen a lot of guys get crippling back pumps from orals, especially DMZ.

I wonder does this happen with injectables and DHEA derivatives or is it solely an oral steroid side?
 

snagencyV2.0

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What are the sides like with the PP products? I've always wondered because they are so much more expensive than regular PH. I've seen a lot of guys get crippling back pumps from orals, especially DMZ.

I wonder does this happen with injectables and DHEA derivatives or is it solely an oral steroid side?
i had some sides from AndroMASS, but nothing crippling by any means, and they all passed extremely quickly..night sweats were the worst of it.
i think if you are prone to gyno, or have pre-ex pubescent gyno (like me), you may have to combat this (exemestane did trick for me purrfektly).
as for back pumps - never had that issue at all with Pp products, and i cannot speak on if it is solely an oral side as i have no experience with injectables.
 
Jim2542

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i had some sides from AndroMASS, but nothing crippling by any means, and they all passed extremely quickly..night sweats were the worst of it.
i think if you are prone to gyno, or have pre-ex pubescent gyno (like me), you may have to combat this (exemestane did trick for me purrfektly).
as for back pumps - never had that issue at all with Pp products, and i cannot speak on if it is solely an oral side as i have no experience with injectables.
Cool. I like to hear other peoples experiences with these, I have no experience with this side of bodybuilding so its cool to absorb other peoples.
 

snagencyV2.0

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Cool. I like to hear other peoples experiences with these, I have no experience with this side of bodybuilding so its cool to absorb other peoples.
i'm a newb at "this side" myself..learning as i go.
it's been an incredibly fun and educational experience to this point, and of course i thirst for more knowledge as well.
 
HereToStudy

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I'll be quoting this next time someone posts up in Anabolics that they are gonna run PP stacks without SERMs in their PCTs haha. If they don't take it from a seasoned athlete that is also Sponsored by PP then they just wanna live in suppressed land :p. Always have Clomid on hand IMO.

And Sub for Meticulous and delicious food pics :D!
I think that SNAgency's response was on par with what I would have stated. I think people forget that for any cycle outside of one that is purely AndroSeries (as we really have seen data concluding that supression is minimum, at best), every primordial rep I have ever known has suggested the TRS and a serm of choice. I generally don't even get picky on the serm, not the biggest nolva fan, never used torem, although on paper I like it, access to Rx grade is not easy and/or cheap, and I use Pharmaceutical Clomid along with the TRS throughout every PCT. It is the way to go.

Eric, owner of the company, is more inclined to suggest a TRS solo for many more situations, but I can't argue with his logic. He has seen a good amount of reports from people he has helped with PCTs, and recovery was accomplished just with these products.


Alright, thread hijack discontinued, sorry agency.
 
Celorza

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I think that SNAgency's response was on par with what I would have stated. I think people forget that for any cycle outside of one that is purely AndroSeries (as we really have seen data concluding that supression is minimum, at best), every primordial rep I have ever known has suggested the TRS and a serm of choice. I generally don't even get picky on the serm, not the biggest nolva fan, never used torem, although on paper I like it, access to Rx grade is not easy and/or cheap, and I use Pharmaceutical Clomid along with the TRS throughout every PCT. It is the way to go.

Eric, owner of the company, is more inclined to suggest a TRS solo for many more situations, but I can't argue with his logic. He has seen a good amount of reports from people he has helped with PCTs, and recovery was accomplished just with these products.


Alright, thread hijack discontinued, sorry agency.
I apologize for my lack of depth, its just I once saw a thread of a guy saying he was gonna use Mass+Bulk at 8 caps a day BOTH at the same time for 8 weeks, all I said was: Keep Clomid at hand...just in case, but order your TRS first and foremost before starting. He said: "I don't need either, this is NOT suppressive and I can do this stack and even finish up with a bit of hard and just use Erase+DAA" , fun thing is that it ended up being underage and thread got deleted after I asked him if he was stupid or just underage.

I believe the idea behind PP is to only need TRS , but if you are gonna stack 2+ Andro's @ high doses, it never hurts to have a SERM on hand and TRS waiting for yah :D!
 
Colbicide

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In for food porn!
 
DreamWeaver

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Snags Trenazone is good just a bit underdosed wouldn't be surprised it you end up at 2 ml ed ... at that dose it's damn good and very little in the way of discernable sides...
 

snagencyV2.0

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thanks Doug, appreciate the tip.


okay, training layout for now looks like this:
day 1 - quads/calves
day 2 - chest/abs
day 3 - upper back/biceps
day 4 - shoulders/triceps/abs
day 5 - lower back/hams

it's a rolling schedule, as i'm running a 2 on/1 off split, resting an occasional extra day here & there if i need it (or if tennis has me beat down)..and no matter what the "schedule" is on a particular week, i always rest between day #5 and day #1.
rep ranges are mostly 6-10, altho i'll go as low as 4 and as high as 12 in some instances.
rest periods are mostly 2min.

time to widen the back this this day..ciao.

EDIT: thought i should perhaps explain why i am running hammy day and quad day consecutively..
for now, i like to group my leg training together, so as not to impede my tennis game.
this gives me a couple consecutive days where i can schedule tennis, then lay off tennis while i focus on strength/size training for da wheels.
it works well for me. when tennis is finished, i simply switch days #1 and #2 around, for a more balanced approach.
 
AZMIDLYF

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And thick too
 

snagencyV2.0

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lil sample of dinner tonight (sry, no pic guys, but good enuff to talk about)

6oz grilled turkey breast, salt & pepper
1/2 cup seasoned black beans
1 whole egg/2 whites
romaine w/ red bell peppers/onion/croutons/dressing (~100cal salad)
2 rice cakes (dessert y'know)

total ~550cals

i bring this up, to show how clean i'm keeping things..what i have found is, i'll need to bump cals with this diet as i've dropped to 187 (and keep getting more ripped, more veins) despite 3500cal intake, gonna move to ~3750 and monitor.
my Pp run seems to have had lingering effects on my metabolism.
 
HereToStudy

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lil sample of dinner tonight (sry, no pic guys, but good enuff to talk about)

6oz grilled turkey breast, salt & pepper
1/2 cup seasoned black beans
1 whole egg/2 whites
romaine w/ red bell peppers/onion/croutons/dressing (~100cal salad)
2 rice cakes (dessert y'know)

total ~550cals

i bring this up, to show how clean i'm keeping things..what i have found is, i'll need to bump cals with this diet as i've dropped to 187 (and keep getting more ripped, more veins) despite 3500cal intake, gonna move to ~3750 and monitor.
my Pp run seems to have had lingering effects on my metabolism.
Your dedication to eating clean, even when looking to add big weight is inspiring, good work.
 

snagencyV2.0

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Your dedication to eating clean, even when looking to add big weight is inspiring, good work.
thanks my friend. if i can inspire thru this log, that's what it's all about! :)

so, with that thought in mind, here is some inspiration this day....
(i could not for the life of me get the right angle/shot i wanted to of this, so took a few ahaa)







as mentioned - i said those shoulders WILL be resurrected, there will be no failure on this. :nono:

training today:
7min light warm-up cardio
military press 8x8
single DB shoulder press (8reps) ss w/ lying rear delt flyes (12reps), 3 sets
standing laterals 3x8
seated overhead DB press, triceps (8 reps) ss w/ reverse-grip pressdowns (12reps), 3 sets
DB kickbacks 3x10
abs
7min light cooldown cardio

good times, feel swole.
 
bolt10

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Taking pictures by yourself can be such a pain...trying to get the angle and everything correct is a hassle. :(

Waiting for more food pics though. :D
 
MattPorter

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This will be great to see --- now beginners can understand that you DO NOT NEED TO GAIN excessive BF in order to gain muscle...dont ever justify eating like crap and gaining lots of BF because its "off-season" or bulking up time...

-Matt
 

snagencyV2.0

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This will be great to see --- now beginners can understand that you DO NOT NEED TO GAIN excessive BF in order to gain muscle...dont ever justify eating like crap and gaining lots of BF because its "off-season" or bulking up time...

-Matt
never have i been a fan of such "strategy", and certainly it is not optimal imo.
last off-season was the worst of my life; injuries/personal strife led me to very poor eating habits that i do not wish to duplicate.
besides - just because some guys can eat crap off-season and get away with it ala Lee Priest for example, the majority of us would be MUCH better off with a more balanced and conscientious approach.
(and as much as i admire Lee's physique, i surely do not wish to look like has in his past off-seasons) :nono:



 
AZMIDLYF

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OMG!! That is rediculous.
 

snagencyV2.0

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OMG!! That is rediculous.
isn't it tho?
and even for Lee, that was not usual - but it's what he evolved to in his "bulking" periods.
you get that big, then try to diet down to get on stage, and even with the BEST plan and plenty of time to prepare, i don't care - you will lose some muscle in the prep process.
just is pointless to me, let alone a very unhealthy way to live.
 
DreamWeaver

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Yah I would love to have that man's skin elasticity don't know how he does the tight skin thing...
 
AZMIDLYF

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Youth DW. His days are numbered in that arena though.
 

snagencyV2.0

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as pct nears its completion, this morning i finished up TCF-1 and EndoAMP Max, and Sustain Alpha will be gone tomorrow. :(
i've really enjoyed these products..all very well designed, and just cool to use.

training this day, #5 in the schedule:
7min light warm-up cardio
lying leg curls (8reps) ss w/ weighted decline abs (12reps), 4 sets
BB romanian DL (8 reps) ss w/ weighted DB sidebends (12 reps), 4 sets
BB deadlifts 6x8/8/8/6/6/6
7min light cooldown cardio

felt like getting some more ab work in this day, it all meshed well together, good session.
 
MattPorter

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that was 2002 when he came all the way down from 270 to 199 lbs and won the SAn FRan Pro show looking his best!

-Matt
 

snagencyV2.0

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that was 2002 when he came all the way down from 270 to 199 lbs and won the SAn FRan Pro show looking his best!

-Matt
he turned it around for sure -- i think he was so disgusted with himself for getting that fat it lit a fire under his ass! :p

anyway, i know he doesn't let himself go like that anymore..
 

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Priest is almost a year younger than me, just turned 40 last month. that ain't old, DW. :D
and fyi - no longer is he an IFBB bb'er, now he's a NABBA Professional athlete.



anyway, back to amateur me.
was supposed to be an off-day today, but last night i had my 1x weekly couple hours "cheat window", moved up from what was supposed to be tonight..crammed about 5500cals total in (3500cal regular fare before 2k cal cheats), ate some fun stuff..now back to the grind.
after these cheat days (that are typically in the hours before i go to bed), i really enjoy waking and running fasted training (bcaa-driven of course).
and so, exactly what i did this day.

day #2 in the schedule (bypassed day #1 since it's been raining, no tennis on the horizon this w/e so can do quads next session)
7min light warm-up cardio
flat BB bench 6x8/8/8/8/7/6
incline DB bench 4x6/6/6/5
inclined perfect-pec pushups, 2x max reps
(feet positioned off end of flat bench, pushup apparatus on floor - if you want to do these w/o PP unit simply use your hands on floor, or to make it more difficult and explosive try clapping your hands in the concentric position)
7min light cooldown cardio

followed with smaller postWO shake this day, ~45g carbs from dextrose/brown rice syrup and 15g isolate, then consumed breakfast~30min later.

altho some view me as rigid and inflexible (and in some ways i am :p), i quite enjoy changing things up frequently..
you will see this in my training, as i rarely run the same routine 2x in a row, preferring constant change and muscle confusion.
 
DreamWeaver

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I knew he wasn't old but that skin thing has to start catching up soon ... maybe not, even mine seems to bet getting tighter...
 

snagencyV2.0

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I knew he wasn't old but that skin thing has to start catching up soon ... maybe not, even mine seems to bet getting tighter...
sure - the skin only has so much elasticity, as we've discussed before.
like anything else, some ppl have more elastic skin than others..and remember, if he did that in 2002 that was 10yrs ago when he was ~30, so he's much more likely to bounce back from that than ~ age 40.
a lot of factors can play into that aspect.
 

snagencyV2.0

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as i said....
back to the clean eats.
nothing too special 'bout this meal, except that i love cooking on the grill -- and, the macros and cleanliness of this feast are just outta this world. ;)



8oz turkey breast
1 whole egg
romaine w/ red pepper/croutons/sweet vidalia onion dressing (~125cal salad)
3 white cheddar rice cakes for dessert (LOVE these things)
~600cals total on a lower cal day of ~3250cals, 6 meals
(off today from weight training, did get some tennis in tho)
 

snagencyV2.0

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breakfast this day:
(breakfast is also my preWO meal)
5oz turkey breast
2 slices toasted ezekiel cinnamon raisin w/ .5 tbs butter
small banana
protein shake (260cals, ~40g p/10g c/7g f)
~700cals

planned training for today (day #1):
7min cardio warm-up
3x8 leg extensions
6x8 atg squats, wide stance
4x8 DB lunges, stationary
5x10-12 BB calf raises
7min cardio cooldown

postWO shake/meal is still up in the air today, but i know it will include some chocolate cake (sans icing) that my son & i made friday nite..
after not planning on tennis this w/e, will end up playing both days, as i'm scheduled for a match this afternoon and also played yesterday for ~2hrs..
with the addtl activity on hand, will boost cal intake to ~4000 today.

weight upon rising this morning 189.5
 
HereToStudy

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Do you find that the adjustment in calories allows cardio to not dampen gains adequately? My diet is fairly well calculated at this point, but I have been planning to add some cals to allow for more cardio. Not using the cardio for fat loss, per se, but general health (my endurance is hell, even though I look like I am in good condition, time to make the endurance match that).

Appreciate your input.
 

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