AndorMass/AndroHard Cycle Help

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    AndorMass/AndroHard Cycle Help


    I'm about 3 weeks away from starting a cycle with the Andro series. I have 2 bottles of AM V2, 2 bottles of AH V2, and 2 bottles of AH V3. I'm looking to run AM/AH V2 stacked, my stats are as follows-

    Age: 30
    Height: 6'3"
    Weight: 225
    BF: ~8%
    Cycles: None (I did 5 days of AndroLean but it didn't treat me well so I stopped)

    I've been lifting for about 12 years, 8 of those serious. Diet will be clean and I can post my meal plan if you would like but macros will be 40/30/30, protein, carbs, and fat with total kcals starting at 4000 allowing a 300 kcal bump for every 5 lbs gained--not too difficult to figure out.

    I want to run these compounds by themselves to see what the Andro Series can do so please dont recommend including any methyls or other compounds; although I do want to hear what acnillaries I should include or have on hand. I'm looking to add some good mass with very little fat--I do understand I may not stay at 8% bf, but I don't feel its necessary to climb into the teens. It is important to know that I had sensitive nipples including very slight lactation on only 5 days of AL, but I had bloodwork done and everything was normal so I'm still not sure what the problem was other than AL not being a good compound for my body chemistry. I'm hoping the inclusion of AH with this cycle will prevnet any gyno type symptoms.

    Please feel free to ask questions and post advice, I want to run TRS for PCT, but will have clomid on hand if needed. Also, I will have an AI on hand as well, but I would like to hear suggestions as to which one I should get, aromasin, letro, or anything else that would be superior to either of these. Post cycle bw will also be done to help manage PCT and recovery.

    Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

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    Honestly man, It seems well thought out and planned. I wouldn't worry about any nipple sensitivity as the AH should keep that in check. Should be a good cycle. Ancillary wise, not much is needed. Some guys like running an all in one like cycle support just to be safe.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy
    Honestly man, It seems well thought out and planned. I wouldn't worry about any nipple sensitivity as the AH should keep that in check. Should be a good cycle. Ancillary wise, not much is needed. Some guys like running an all in one like cycle support just to be safe.
    Would the use of a AI be overkill? Should I take both the AM and AH at full dose of 6 caps a day for each? Also remember I'm taking V2. Thanks for the reply!
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    do cycle support products inhibit any gains with any of the androseries
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    Would the use of a AI be overkill? Should I take both the AM and AH at full dose of 6 caps a day for each? Also remember I'm taking V2. Thanks for the reply!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austinmck17 View Post
    do cycle support products inhibit any gains with any of the androseries
    Although there is some evidence suggesting milk thistle may do this, liver support supplements are not necessary with the AS.

    Quote Originally Posted by kc777 View Post
    Would the use of a AI be overkill? Should I take both the AM and AH at full dose of 6 caps a day for each? Also remember I'm taking V2. Thanks for the reply!
    There is not a need for an AI and yes, 6 caps of both per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    There is not a need for an AI and yes, 6 caps of both per day.
    I agree with this on both fronts.
    Just inject.
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    With the inclusion of AH, is there really any chance of nipple sensitivity? Also, if I were to notice a very slight tinge, nothing constant or painful, is this something to worry about? I ask because I had everything in order so I started this cycle 4 days ago at 6 caps AH and 3 caps AM, bumping the AM 1 cap per day to 5 caps. Today was my first day at 5 caps and I feel fine, nothing noticeable yet but I'm hyper cautious because of my experience with AL V2. I know there isn't any 5-DHEA in AM, but just wanting to hear from you guys with some more experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc777 View Post
    With the inclusion of AH, is there really any chance of nipple sensitivity? Also, if I were to notice a very slight tinge, nothing constant or painful, is this something to worry about? I ask because I had everything in order so I started this cycle 4 days ago at 6 caps AH and 3 caps AM, bumping the AM 1 cap per day to 5 caps. Today was my first day at 5 caps and I feel fine, nothing noticeable yet but I'm hyper cautious because of my experience with AL V2. I know there isn't any 5-DHEA in AM, but just wanting to hear from you guys with some more experience.
    AM V3? You are running significantly more AH than 4-Dhea so no worries at all bud, you could certainly bump the dosage of AM imo.

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    I'm running V2 of both compounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc777
    I'm running V2 of both compounds.
    How far in r u?
    What's gains have u seen?
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    7 days. No gains yet, but I'm sure it will be a couple weeks before I see anything.
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    Would any of you recommend sustain alpha during cycle for estrogen maintenance? I want to bump up to 6 caps of each per day starting tomorrow. Remember this is V2 on both AM and AH. I ask about sustain alpha because PP claims it binds well to ER. So could this behave slightly like a SERM? I understand they are two different things but wondering if this could help prevent any gyno type sides while on cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc777
    7 days. No gains yet, but I'm sure it will be a couple weeks before I see anything.
    Yeah...
    Only bad thing about most sups is that u won't see gains until about 3-5 weeks into the bottle and most things require 2 bottles cause of the kick in time around weeks 3 & 4.
    Not specific to andro series just most sups in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryansm
    AM V3? You are running significantly more AH than 4-Dhea so no worries at all bud, you could certainly bump the dosage of AM imo.
    Would any of you recommend sustain alpha during cycle for estrogen maintenance? I want to bump up to 6 caps of each per day starting tomorrow. Remember this is V2 on both AM and AH. I ask about sustain alpha because PP claims it binds well to ER. So could this behave slightly like a SERM? I understand they are two different things but wondering if this could help prevent any gyno type sides while on cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc777 View Post
    Would any of you recommend sustain alpha during cycle for estrogen maintenance? I want to bump up to 6 caps of each per day starting tomorrow. Remember this is V2 on both AM and AH. I ask about sustain alpha because PP claims it binds well to ER. So could this behave slightly like a SERM? I understand they are two different things but wondering if this could help prevent any gyno type sides while on cycle.
    It won't be necessary with AH in the cycle.
    Just inject.
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    Even with a full dose of AH at 6 caps per day I'm still noticing a very slight tinge in my right nipple. Very slight but it's not my imagination. Anyone care to advise or comment?
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    Even with a full dose of AH at 6 caps per day I'm still noticing a very slight tinge in my right nipple. Very slight but it's not my imagination. Anyone care to advise or comment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc777 View Post
    Even with a full dose of AH at 6 caps per day I'm still noticing a very slight tinge in my right nipple. Very slight but it's not my imagination. Anyone care to advise or comment?
    That could be from the 4DHEA directly agonizing the Estrogen Receptor. I believe once it converts into 4AD -- this can happen. V2 hard SHOULD be enough to neutralize this , but if you are prone and sensitive, then you still may get some mild irritation. I dont think this would be an issue with AndroHard v3 + AndroMass v3 due to massive amounts of DHT being present.

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter

    That could be from the 4DHEA directly agonizing the Estrogen Receptor. I believe once it converts into 4AD -- this can happen. V2 hard SHOULD be enough to neutralize this , but if you are prone and sensitive, then you still may get some mild irritation. I dont think this would be an issue with AndroHard v3 + AndroMass v3 due to massive amounts of DHT being present.

    -Matt
    So both 5-DHEA and 4-DHEA can do this? I ran AL V2 for 6 days and my nips felt like I was rubbing icy hot on them! This is nowhere near that intense. I may just keep the AM at 4 caps a day and continue the AH at full dose. How much danger would I be in with continuing the AM at a lower dose, and if you feel any tinge is that bad?
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    Okay so from what I've been able to find online 4-DHEA cannot act on the ER directly, so any estrogen related sides would be from aromatization.

    At this point should I start a small dose of erase and keep the AM at 4 caps? Or would I be better to just drop it and finish the 2 bottles of AH V2? I wanted to hopefully gain on this cycle, but if that means developing gyno then I'll just run the AH and eat as much as I can. How long does gyno take to develop? Is a slight tinge for about 1 hour after dosing something to worry about? Any help would be great, thanks guys.
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    If you are confident the reaction is legit, then try the Erase and see if it helps.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy
    If you are confident the reaction is legit, then try the Erase and see if it helps.
    Would a SERM be better? Opinions and experiences would be great! Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc777 View Post
    Okay so from what I've been able to find online 4-DHEA cannot act on the ER directly, so any estrogen related sides would be from aromatization.

    At this point should I start a small dose of erase and keep the AM at 4 caps? Or would I be better to just drop it and finish the 2 bottles of AH V2? I wanted to hopefully gain on this cycle, but if that means developing gyno then I'll just run the AH and eat as much as I can. How long does gyno take to develop? Is a slight tinge for about 1 hour after dosing something to worry about? Any help would be great, thanks guys.

    It was originally claimed (4AD) that it was free of estrogenic side effects when released in late 90's early 2000's....this was great marketing but very misleading....Bill Roberts helped these claims circulate the industry.

    However most DIOL based hormones will affect the ER to a certain extent. Even 5-androSTANediol some what interacts with the ER.

    So with the enzymatic conversion steps that take place from 4DHEA--4DIONE---DIOL etc... you get some aromatization from the dione and some mild direct ER agonizing from the DIOL.

    I will post a reference once I find it through all of these folders here...

    Anyways -- I KNOW 4ADIOL will cause estrogenic symptoms as my good friend who NEVER put on BF% , water bloat etc...

    finally took off into new territory of MASS than ever before --- he ran 1500 mgs of 4AD....

    He was big, full and watery, but he finally put on some serious size.

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter

    However most DIOL based hormones will affect the ER to a certain extent. Even 5-androSTANediol some what interacts with the ER.

    -Matt
    Awesome info! Thanks!

    Can you help me understand what a "DIOL" based hormone is? Are all DHEA isomers DIOL hormones? Also again would I be better running an AI or a SERM on cycle to prevent these types of sides.

    Most all the literature I see recommends AI's on cycle to "keep estrogen under control"; however, I feel my problem is coming from ER binding, not elevated E2. Back when I tried AndroLean I lactated on the 6th day running that compound. I freaked and had immediate blood done, only to show E2 levels in the mid 20's and test levels in the high 600's.
  

  
 

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