Primordial Performance's 1-T Tren Write-Up!

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    Primordial Performance's 1-T Tren Write-Up!







    Primordial Performance Presents:


    1-T Tren!






    1-T TREN is finally here, and it represents a true pinnacle.

    As the list of legal and effective steroid hormones becomes smaller and smaller, the FDA ban list of anabolic substances becomes increasingly larger.

    Considering the current legal environment for steroid based compounds, 1-T TREN is likely going to be the most powerful steroidal product that Primordial Performance will ever release. In fact, 1-T may quite possibly be the most powerful product available on the current legal market. [And it probably isn't going to be available very long if congress continues their "war against anabolics"]

    Now, before we talk about the marvelous power of 1-T TREN, I want to come clean.

    We are calling this product 1-T TREN because we are utilizing a hormone that has effects and a molecular structure very close to the anabolic steroid Trenbolone. So when we say "This is the closest legal thing to injectable Trenbolone", we really mean it. [Even though it's not actual Trenbolone, nor does it convert to Trenbolone]

    The legal steroid hormone we are calling "TREN" is known as 19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione [aka, Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione]

    Most noteworthy, is that TREN doesn't need to make any conversions to exert its muscle building effects, because of its unique chemical structure.

    Just compare the two steroid molecules and you will see they share a very similar molecular structure -





    Essentially, this legal molecule is Trenbolone's little brother, and it offers the following benefits -

    Non-methylated & non-toxic to the liver
    Does not require metabolic conversion
    Highly anabolic with zero estrogen conversion
    Dramatic gains in strength and dense, lean muscle
    To understand the specific activity & effects of TREN, let's take a quick look at the science of Trenbolone - [most of which applies to TREN]




    Trenbolone

    The Legendary Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS)
    Even as an illegal Schedule III controlled substance, Trenbolone maintains tremendous popularity for its rapid muscle building, physique hardening and fat burning effects. Being that Trenbolone is several times more anabolic & androgenic than testosterone, it's hailed as one of the most powerful AAS's for increasing strength, muscle density, and body fat reduction -- while causing minimal bloating and water retention. (1) This also makes Trenbolone [or TREN] ideal for either bulking or cutting cycles.

    Trenbolone has been used by bodybuilders and athletes for decades in all kinds of preparations. Those willing to take the risk of committing a federal offense, purchase Finaplix implant tablets (Trenbolone acetate) from veterinarian supply shops and convert them to injectable or transdermal preparations with homemade kits. Some individuals have even gone as far as taking the Finaplix tablets as suppositories. Let's just say, people have gone to great lengths to get their hands on this stuff.

    When we examine the molecular structure of Trenbolone and TREN, we can see a double bond in 9th position. This unique structural modification enhances the androgenic and anabolic power of the molecule. It also causes the molecules to resist conversion from steroid converting enzymes such as aromatase and 5a-reductase. Therefore, neither Trenbolone or TREN can be converted to estrogen [by aromatase], or other highly androgenic compounds, such as DHT [by 5a-reductase]. (8,9)

    Side Effects

    Trenbolone does have one downfall or upside, depending on how you look at it.

    Trenbolone is a progestin based anabolic, which means it activates the progesterone receptor [PR]. (1) The combination of a high affinity for the androgen & progesterone receptor makes Trenbolone especially prone to cause individuals to "Hulk out" with aggression and anger. [A great thing for the gym, but a problem for the people that irritate you]

    Aside from the possible emotional episodes, the PR action of Trenbolone can also stimulate gyno by directly activating the progesterone receptor [PR]. (1) This makes Trenbolone problematic when stacked with highly estrogenic compounds, since it appears that activation of the PR increases estrogen's proliferative ability on breast tissue. (2) Therefore, to avoid gyno symptoms it is best to use Trenbolone [or related steroids] with compounds that have low estrogenic activity.

    Even though Trenbolone lacks the ability to convert to DHT, it can encourage temporary hair loss because of its direct action on the androgen receptor [AR]. However, the possible hair shedding from Trenbolone could be considered less than the hair loss associated with high DHT producing compounds. [eg, testosterone]


    Being that TREN is a closely related analogue of Trenbolone, it shares both the good and the possible negative effects I just presented. Considering this, we had to formulate 1-T TREN in a precisely balanced ratio to avoid the side-effects, yet make it as effective as possible.

    And that's exactly what we did with 1-T TREN -- and the result is quite incredible.

    We stacked TREN with 1-Androsterone™, which is a non-aromatizing steroid hormone that converts to the original 1-Testosterone, as seen here (3,4) - [also used in our original 1-T]





    Unfortunately, 1-Testosterone tends to suppress the libido and cause feelings of lethargy. So, we added a precise dose of DHEA, to counter these effects.

    DHEA helps prevent lethargy by converting to powerful "neurosteroids" that encourage cognitive function and motivational drive. (5,6) DHEA also converts to several 5a-reduced metabolites that help support libido.

    DHEA can also make conversions to other hormones, such as Testosterone. As most bodybuilders know, stacking a compound like Trenbolone with Testosterone is one of the most effective stacks for gaining sheer mass, strength and size. However, as mentioned earlier, stacking Trenbolone with estrogenic compounds such as Testosterone can lead to gyno. So we had to keep the dose of DHEA moderate to avoid these potential estrogenic/progestogenic side effects.

    Thus, the end result is an anabolic masterpiece that captures the maximum anabolic muscle building effects, while keeping side effects to a minimum.

    Finally, the hormones in 1-T TREN are efficiently delivered into the blood stream with our latest 6.0 OHV topical delivery system. Expect 30-40% of the active ingredients to be shuttled into the body over a 12-24 hour period. (10,11)
    The final formulation of 1-T TREN smells of true victory and greatness. [It seriously does, just take a deep inhalation on your first application]

    As with any powerful anabolic, users shall still expect suppression of natural testosterone while using 1-T TREN. Therefore, a proper PCT after a cycle will be necessary. For more information, please see the Official PCT Thread

    If you're interested in learning how to best use 1-T TREN based on your goals, see the Official 1-T TREN Cycling Thread


    Thank you for supporting Primordial Performance.




    -Eric Potratz
    President & Founder








    1-T TREN
    6.0

    Characteristics:

    Fast drying creamy lotion, possessing fresh citrus scent.

    Active Ingredients:

    Active ingredients per 5 pumps

    1-Androsterone™ – 90 mg
    19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione (TREN) - 81 mg
    DHEA – 57 mg

    Other Ingredients:

    Distilled water, grape spirits*, aloe vera*, ethoxy diglycol, dimethyl isosorbide, butylene glycol, jojoba oil, emu oil, squalene, tocopherol acetate, chamomile extract* (matricaria recutita), isopropyl myristate, green tea extract* (camellia sinensis), cetyl palmitate, sorbitan palmitate, sorbitan olivate, glyceryl stearate, PEG 100 stearate, glycerin, dimethicone, strontium nitrate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, d-Limonene, tetrahydropiperine†, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, sodium PCA, sodium hydroxide.

    * Certified Organic
    † US Patent 6,849,645








    The radio interview with Eric on superhuman radio about our 1-T Tren:

    http://www.superhumanradio.com/rss/2...R_Show_294.mp3







    Click here: to order 1-T Tren!


    You can also order the Click for 1-T Tren Twin Pack, or a
    Click for 1-T Tren Case







    References -

    1. Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor.
    Bauer, Meyer et al.
    Acta Pathol Microbiol Imunol Scand Suppl 108 (2000) 838-46

    2. Progesterone is not essential to the differentiative potential of mammary epithelium in the male mouse.
    Freeman, et al.
    Endocrinology. 1978 Jul;103(1):186-92

    3. 17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one (1-testosterone) is a potent androgen with anabolic properties.
    A Friedel, et al.
    Toxicol Lett, Aug 2006; 165(2): 149-55.

    4. Galletti and Gardi, “Metabolism of 1-Dehydroandrostanes in Man”
    J Steroid Biochem, 3 (1972), 933-936

    5. Novel brain function: biosynthesis and actions of neurosteroids in neurons.
    K Tsutsui, et al.
    Neurosci Res, Apr 2000; 36(4): 261-73.

    6. DHEA treatment for HIV patients: Effects on mood, androgenic and anabolic parameters.
    Rabkin, J., et al.
    Psychoneuro endocrinology. R. 25, 53-68. 2000

    7. Pharmacological and endocrinological studies on anabolic steroids.
    Neumann F. et al.
    Environ Qual Saf Suppl 1976 (5) 253-64

    8. Unique steroid congeners for receptor studies.
    Ojasoo, Raynaud.
    Cancer Research 38 (1978) 4186-98

    9. Disposition of 17 beta-trenbolone in humans.
    Spranger, et al.
    J Chromatogr 564 (1991) 485-92

    10. Pharmacokinetics of a new testosterone transdermal delivery system, TDS-testosterone in healthy males.
    Z Chik, et al.
    Br J Clin Pharmacol, Mar 2006; 61(3): 275-9.

    11. High bioavailability of dehydroepiandrosterone administered percutaneously in the rat
    C Labrie, et al.
    Sep 1996; 150: S107 - S118.

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    Tremendous write up! Is 1-T Tren going to be available at Nutraplanet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Tremendous write up! Is 1-T Tren going to be available at Nutraplanet?
    I believe in time it will be, yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pound4Pound View Post
    Have you guys had any testers?
    I believe some guys were trying it out during the stages of development, so i'll check into what that situation is.

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    Since this compound has excellent oral bioavailability, what would make this transdermal product stand out from the many other estra-4-9 diene-3, 17-dione products on the market? I mean 80 bucks for a product that most charge around 35, is a big leap in price.
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    I just order my bottle, Ready to get it crackin! I have a bottle of oxyguno ive been sitten on for a few months. I was wondering if I could import that into this run some how some way. Any suggestions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFOX View Post
    Since this compound has excellent oral bioavailability, what would make this transdermal product stand out from the many other estra-4-9 diene-3, 17-dione products on the market? I mean 80 bucks for a product that most charge around 35, is a big leap in price.
    bump for a response to my question please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFOX View Post
    Since this compound has excellent oral bioavailability, what would make this transdermal product stand out from the many other estra-4-9 diene-3, 17-dione products on the market? I mean 80 bucks for a product that most charge around 35, is a big leap in price.
    This is a really interesting question
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBerto View Post
    This is a really interesting question
    Agreed. I really liked 1-T and was kinda hoping the Tren version would have some other Tren-related molecule. Don't see why a transdermal of this makes any sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFOX View Post
    Since this compound has excellent oral bioavailability, what would make this transdermal product stand out from the many other estra-4-9 diene-3, 17-dione products on the market? I mean 80 bucks for a product that most charge around 35, is a big leap in price.
    This transdermal product would stand out, b/c there aren't any other commercial transdermal 1-Androsterone formulations on the market. Its a combination formula that addresses the bioavailability issues with 1-Androsterone and the libido concerns that are associated with both 1-Androsterone and Prodienolone products. Try adding a high DHEA dose with a 1-Androsterone and Prodienolone oral and tell me how that works out for you. It was also consumer interest that drove this product to become released. I don't think anything about this formualtion was a secret leading up to its release, so I don't seem to understand the aggressive line of questioning and parroting that I am reading within this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slow-mun View Post
    ...so I don't seem to understand the aggressive line of questioning and parroting that I am reading within this thread.


    I don't see any "aggressive line of questioning" here. A boy ask an interesting question (why transdermal tren if oral tren has good bioavailability and its way cheaper) and nobody answer that. Thats all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBerto View Post


    I don't see any "aggressive line of questioning" here. A boy ask an interesting question (why transdermal tren if oral tren has good bioavailability and its way cheaper) and nobody answer that. Thats all.
    Thanks JBerto, it is for sure a fair question. I'm interested in this product, but for me to spend all that extra cash, this better blow the other products out of the water. I hope we get a response from PP soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFOX View Post
    bump for a response to my question please.
    your forgetting the 1-t part of the transdermal it's a combo not just a transdermal tren. the price you were quoting is just for a bottle of 19-nor like cyclo tren without the 1-t component
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    your forgetting the 1-t part of the transdermal it's a combo not just a transdermal tren. the price you were quoting is just for a bottle of 19-nor like cyclo tren without the 1-t component
    Now I feel stupid for not reading the whole write up. I'm in for sure then, as that sound like a great stack.
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    Anybody got a answer for me with the oxyguno question, I know its a hdrol clone but I was just wondering. Ill probally just run the 1-t/tren by itself. I only ordered one bottle, how soon should you exspect to see results with this compund. I wont another bottle but I wanted to run it for a few weeks to see what I was gettin in to. Also does any PP rep know if PP is gonna be at the arnold next weekend?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NattyT View Post
    Anybody got a answer for me with the oxyguno question, I know its a hdrol clone but I was just wondering. Ill probally just run the 1-t/tren by itself. I only ordered one bottle, how soon should you exspect to see results with this compund. I wont another bottle but I wanted to run it for a few weeks to see what I was gettin in to. Also does any PP rep know if PP is gonna be at the arnold next weekend?
    Run the tren alone,save your hdrol for another cycle,and to the arnold show question!..p.p will not be at the arnold this year!take a look at the awesome write-up that trauma1 posted on our 1 -T TREN..you will be amazed.
    slick.
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    Guys, i'll get to answering your questions tonight.

    Please understand though, i work long 12 hour days in one of the busiest E.R.'s in the country, so sometimes i can't get on here to answer questions in a timely fashion at times. So, don't be discouraged if i don't answer right away once in a while.

    Thanks for understanding all, and now i'll get to answering those questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFOX View Post
    Now I feel stupid for not reading the whole write up. I'm in for sure then, as that sound like a great stack.
    It's all good, man. Our 1-T Tren formula was put together specifically to attenuate certain negative aspects of a cycle. The DHEA and its metabolites can help mitigate libido loss, and also assist in combating lethargy overall.

    The 1-Androsterone from our 1-T product is also contained in the formula. Combined together with the estra-4-9 diene-3, 17-dione in a transdermal delivery, it poises to be one fairly potent product.


    The benefits of transdermal delivery are significant in many regards.

    -Decreased incidence and significance of hepatic stress
    -Enhanced overall absorbtion of bioavailable actives
    -Evades the hepatic first-pass-effect that can degrade compounds significantly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    Agreed. I really liked 1-T and was kinda hoping the Tren version would have some other Tren-related molecule. Don't see why a transdermal of this makes any sense.
    Why doesn't it "make sense?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by NattyT View Post
    Anybody got a answer for me with the oxyguno question, I know its a hdrol clone but I was just wondering. Ill probally just run the 1-t/tren by itself. I only ordered one bottle, how soon should you exspect to see results with this compund. I wont another bottle but I wanted to run it for a few weeks to see what I was gettin in to. Also does any PP rep know if PP is gonna be at the arnold next weekend?
    To be honest, i would save the oxyguno for a different cycle. The 1-T Tren should give you some impressive gains over a 4-6 week period. I do recommend running it for 6 weeks to attain maximum effects. Let me know if you have any questions about setting the cycle up, i'd be glad to help out.

    We won't be at the arnold this year, but it may certainly be a reality come this time next year.

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    I added in the contents of the formula, and application guidelines at the top of this thread. Sorry, left those off last night.

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    So it is ok to stack a oral with regular 1-T, but with 1-T Tren would should go solo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFOX View Post
    Since this compound has excellent oral bioavailability, what would make this transdermal product stand out from the many other estra-4-9 diene-3, 17-dione products on the market? I mean 80 bucks for a product that most charge around 35, is a big leap in price.
    What are manufactures claiming the oral bio-availability is? Are they citing any references?

    I canít image it being anymore than 8-10% just based on the molecular structure of the compound.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipjuice View Post
    So it is ok to stack a oral with regular 1-T, but with 1-T Tren would should go solo?
    Yep, no need to stack anything with 1-T TREN.

    1-T does do well to stack with another anabolic compound though.

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Why doesn't it "make sense?"
    Well, because 1-Androsterone (1-T) as a transdermal makes perfect sense because of the enzymes in the skin converting more of the product, therefore allowing for more active to be available in the body. From what I understood, the Tren compounds were already highly bio-available, so unlike 1-T, the transdermal application didn't offer any specific benefits other than less hepatic stress, which "should" be low anyway as the Trens are non-methyl. So the question was posed more along the lines of, does it make sense at $80/bottle for the combo, as 1-T Tren has less 1-Andro in it than 1-T, or would 1-T + something like Tren Extreme be more cost-efficient?

    However, after looking at what it would cost, it actually does looks cheaper to do it with 1-T Tren rather than 1-T + oral Tren. So, yeah, guess it does "make sense" from that standpoint too.

    Nice work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    Well, because 1-Androsterone (1-T) as a transdermal makes perfect sense because of the enzymes in the skin converting more of the product, therefore allowing for more active to be available in the body. From what I understood, the Tren compounds were already highly bio-available, so unlike 1-T, the transdermal application didn't offer any specific benefits other than less hepatic stress, which "should" be low anyway as the Trens are non-methyl. So the question was posed more along the lines of, does it make sense at $80/bottle for the combo, as 1-T Tren has less 1-Andro in it than 1-T, or would 1-T + something like Tren Extreme be more cost-efficient?

    However, after looking at what it would cost, it actually does looks cheaper to do it with 1-T Tren rather than 1-T + oral Tren. So, yeah, guess it does "make sense" from that standpoint too.

    Nice work.
    What studies or evidence supports this exactly? None i've ever read. It's VERY well known that oral compounds have MANY issues in general in terms of being adequately absorbed or utilized without having methylation in place. The first-pass effect destroys the majority of compounds that are introduced without this put into place.

    Lymphatic delivery is another option, but ideals of actual absorbtion are speculative at best. Effective and sufficient enteral (oral) absorbtion, and subsequent systemic delivery of ANY compound or medication is far more complicated than most people think.

    Transdermal based substances are utilized for the immense benefits they offer in general. Better typical absorbtion of said compounds in general (those without methylation), less compound degradation overall (which can result secondary to the hepatic first-pass effect), and without a doubt, achieving better results with a significantly less hepatic stress effect (That in itself is worth its weight in gold, trust me.)

    Give it a whirl, i think you'll be impressed.

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    I am really stoked about 1-T and 1-T Tren, but I can't decide which way to go yet. Are we going to hear any info from the test subjects? What kind of gains did they get from 1-T Tren? Which product did they like better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yep, no need to stack anything with 1-T TREN.

    1-T does do well to stack with another anabolic compound though.

    -Eric
    I don't know, but if you're product increases it a higher rate we are all in for a treat. This compound taken orally, is by far my favorite PH of all time, and that includes everything pre-ban.
    I can't wait to see the logs on you're product. I want to run this stuff to get ready for my 20 year High School reunion in June. Gots to look good for it baby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    What are manufactures claiming the oral bio-availability is? Are they citing any references?

    I canít image it being anymore than 8-10% just based on the molecular structure of the compound.

    -Eric
    Oops, I meant to quote this post in my above response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    Well, because 1-Androsterone (1-T) as a transdermal makes perfect sense because of the enzymes in the skin converting more of the product, therefore allowing for more active to be available in the body. From what I understood, the Tren compounds were already highly bio-available, so unlike 1-T, the transdermal application didn't offer any specific benefits other than less hepatic stress, which "should" be low anyway as the Trens are non-methyl. So the question was posed more along the lines of, does it make sense at $80/bottle for the combo, as 1-T Tren has less 1-Andro in it than 1-T, or would 1-T + something like Tren Extreme be more cost-efficient?

    However, after looking at what it would cost, it actually does looks cheaper to do it with 1-T Tren rather than 1-T + oral Tren. So, yeah, guess it does "make sense" from that standpoint too.

    Nice work.

    What do you mean by high oral bio-availability? I have not been able to find any credible source of information that shows the TREN molecule getting any better absorption than say, 1-AD. (which is only about 8%)

    -Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    And what studies or evidence supports this exactly? None i've ever read. It's VERY well known that oral compounds have MANY issues in general in terms of being adequately absorbed or utilized without having methylation in place. The first-pass-effect destroys the majority of compounds that are introduced without this intervention put into place.

    Lymphatic delivery is another option, but ideals of actual absorbtion are speculative at best. Enteral entry and absorbtion of ANY compound or medication is far more complicated than most people think.

    Transdermal based substances are utilized for the immense benefits they offer in general. Better absorbtion or said compounds, less compound degredation overall, and without a doubt achieving better results with a significantly less hepatic stress effect (That in itself is worth its weight in gold, trust me.)
    LOL, come on, studies? On designer tren compounds? I'm pretty sure there are none, so I guess it's more bro-science than anything else. But honestly, as you yourself have run multiple methyls before, we both know a non-methylated product will place significantly less stress on the liver. That's just common sense. Whether or not the even further reduced hepatic stress from transdermal delivery makes much difference is open to opinion.

    I have never run the Tren designers before, but from all accounts they are effective, if prone to sides. I expect the same from the PP product, if not better. I don't think anyone, even you guys, have any hard data on transdermal absorption vs oral delivery, but I was very pleased with 1-T, so maybe the 81 mgs of the 19-nor in 5 pumps of 1-T Tren will produce better results than 90 or even 120 mgs taken orally. That, however, remains to be seen.

    I'm mulling over trying this, although I am afraid of these progestin-based compounds (gyno, BP issues). Either way, like I said in the earlier post, if one were to want to stack 1-Andro and Tren, this looks like the way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    What do you mean by high oral bio-availability? I have not been able to find any credible source of information that shows the TREN molecule getting any better absorption than say, 1-AD. (which is only about 8%)

    -Eric
    I don't think there is any data, that statement is admittedly based on anecdotal evidence. But then again Eric, and correct me if something has changed, you guys didn't have any hard absorption data for 1-T either (remember the whole Pat Arnold - Mike McCandless tag-team over on BB? If I'm not mistaken that was one of the things they wrre grilling you on). And 8% on 1-AD? If you don't mind, where did you get that data?

    Look, I really liked 1-T, and I already said that upon further inspection is does seem like your product would be superior to a 1-T/oral Tren stack. I may even try it out.
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    The ability to effectively deliver sufficient amounts of bioavailable actives (of any said compound) into systemic circulation for primary utilization is key. This is one of the primary reasons why a transdermal delivery method is often implemented in use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    LOL, come on, studies? On designer tren compounds? I'm pretty sure there are none, so I guess it's more bro-science than anything else. But honestly, as you yourself have run multiple methyls before, we both know a non-methylated product will place significantly less stress on the liver. That's just common sense. Whether or not the even further reduced hepatic stress from transdermal delivery makes much difference is open to opinion.

    I have never run the Tren designers before, but from all accounts they are effective, if prone to sides. I expect the same from the PP product, if not better. I don't think anyone, even you guys, have any hard data on transdermal absorption vs oral delivery, but I was very pleased with 1-T, so maybe the 81 mgs of the 19-nor in 5 pumps of 1-T Tren will produce better results than 90 or even 120 mgs taken orally. That, however, remains to be seen.

    I'm mulling over trying this, although I am afraid of these progestin-based compounds (gyno, BP issues). Either way, like I said in the earlier post, if one were to want to stack 1-Andro and Tren, this looks like the way to go.
    I'm talking more along the lines of delivery methods (oral (methylated or lymphatic/lipophillic delivery), injection, or transdermal) here though, which most certainly will effect the degree/amount of systemic bioavailable actives delivered. I'm not focusing on a specific compound in general per se, because essentially that can be a moot aspect in many ways.

    There are plenty of supportive medical studies in regard to enteral, parenteral, and/or transdermal delivery methods, and the specific pros/cons they demonstrate, i can assure you that. Many medications in general are designed to utilize the benefits of that delivery method in their application.

    Transdermal delivery methods will most certainly have a significantly lessened degree of hepatic stress, especially when we're talking about making enteral delivered (oral) medications/androgens bioavailable to systemic use (I.E. Methylation.) A non-methylated oral compound won't have a high degree of hepatic stress, you're right, but whatever is absorbed will ultimately face the hepatic first-pass metabolism effect. That in itself will significantly alter the amount of bioavailable active delivered.

    You said that to your understanding that 'Tren' like compounds were 'highly bioavailable', however the degree of that is most certainly dependent upon the efficacy of the utilized delivery modality Which is what i've outlined above.

    I agree that anecdotal-based evidence is the primary method of feedback at this point. I'm willing to get blood work done when i eventually run this myself. While still anecdotal in nature, it should add some insight overall.

    The anecdotal reports we've received back from 1-T (myself included) have been fairly impressive. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed 1-T yourself. As soon as the 1-T Tren logs start rolling in, i'll put them together in a consolidated thread as i did with the 1-T logs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    I'm talking more along the lines of delivery methods (oral (methylated or lymphatic/lipophillic delivery), injection, or transdermal) here though, which most certainly will effect the degree/amount of systemic bioavailable actives delivered. I'm not focusing on a specific compound in general per se, because essentially that can be a moot aspect in many ways.

    There are plenty of supportive medical studies in regard to enteral, parenteral, and/or transdermal delivery methods, and the specific pros/cons they demonstrate, i can assure you that. Many medications in general are designed to utilize the benefits of that delivery method in their application.

    Transdermal delivery methods will most certainly have a significantly lessened degree of hepatic stress, especially when we're talking about making enteral delivered (oral) medications/androgens bioavailable to systemic use (I.E. Methylation.) A non-methylated oral compound won't have a high degree of hepatic stress, you're right, but whatever is absorbed will ultimately face the hepatic first-pass metabolism effect. That in itself will significantly alter the amount of bioavailable active delivered.

    You said that to your understanding that 'Tren' like compounds were 'highly bioavailable', however the degree of that is most certainly dependent upon the efficacy of the utilized delivery modality Which is what i've outlined above.

    I agree that anecdotal-based evidence is the primary method of feedback at this point. I'm willing to get blood work done when i eventually run this myself. While still anecdotal in nature, it should add some insight overall.

    The anecdotal reports we've received back from 1-T (myself included) have been fairly impressive. I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed 1-T yourself. As soon as the 1-T Tren logs start rolling in, i'll put them together in a consolidated thread as i did with the 1-T logs.
    True. It boils down to how much active is delivered... but Trauma, I already do believe in trasdermal delivery! I'm not arguing that point at all. I liked 1-T and I expect, on a mg by mg basis, 1-T Tren will be as effective or more than 1-T + oral Tren, or oral 1-Andro + oral Tren. And it's cheaper. My whole point of contention in the original post was that transdermal delivery wasn't as "necessary" as it was for 1-Andro (b/c no conversion required), and at $80/bottle, would 1-T Tren be "needed" when one could run 1-T + an oral to get thye saem effect. After I find out it's actually cheaper, 2 thumbs up.

    Also looking forward to the logs...
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    How long will one bottle at 5 pumps a day go?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NattyT View Post
    How long will one bottle at 5 pumps a day go?
    4 Pumps/day = 27 applications

    5 Pumps/day = 23 applications

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    True. It boils down to how much active is delivered... but Trauma, I already do believe in trasdermal delivery! I'm not arguing that point at all. I liked 1-T and I expect, on a mg by mg basis, 1-T Tren will be as effective or more than 1-T + oral Tren, or oral 1-Andro + oral Tren. And it's cheaper. My whole point of contention in the original post was that transdermal delivery wasn't as "necessary" as it was for 1-Andro (b/c no conversion required), and at $80/bottle, would 1-T Tren be "needed" when one could run 1-T + an oral to get thye saem effect. After I find out it's actually cheaper, 2 thumbs up.

    Also looking forward to the logs...
    I took what you said a different way i guess. No biggie though, i understand your statements here.

    I look forward to the logs myself. It's time to get hyooge!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon13 View Post
    I don't think there is any data, that statement is admittedly based on anecdotal evidence. But then again Eric, and correct me if something has changed, you guys didn't have any hard absorption data for 1-T either (remember the whole Pat Arnold - Mike McCandless tag-team over on BB? If I'm not mistaken that was one of the things they wrre grilling you on). And 8% on 1-AD? If you don't mind, where did you get that data?

    Look, I really liked 1-T, and I already said that upon further inspection is does seem like your product would be superior to a 1-T/oral Tren stack. I may even try it out.


    1-AD is going to have less oral bioavailability than methenolone acetate [15-20%] because its non-methylated, but more than plain DHEA [3%] because it is has a double-bond in the 1st position, so 8% is an educated guess for 1-ene compounds (1-AD, 1-DHEA, ect). Ive made this proposal several times, and even the almighty steroid guru Pat himself has no disagreeance with it.

    With that said, Iím not seeing anything special that would improve oral absorption with the 19-nor molecule, except maybe the 9-eneÖ so 8% is really a high guess for oral absorption.

    We base our 35% average TD delivery claim based on the aggressive permeants and penetration enhancers in our formula. Similar formulas have been proven to absorb at rates upwards of 30%, and even higher on thin areas of the skin, so 35% is really an estimate in a best case scenario.

    Even if you only get 20% absorbed topically, you should still yield better results with 81mg in a TD than you would with 150mg orally. (assuming you even get 8% in an oral)

    In fact, Im so sure you will love 1-T TREN that Iíll give you your money bacÖ. Ah jeezÖ you get what Im sayin.

    -Eric
  

  
 

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