- 08-20-2008, 01:48 PM
I am planning on using Nolvadex (20/20/10/10) and Clomid (50/25/25) for PCT for my current cycle.
I happen to have a bottle of Sustain Alpha here but I don't think I really need it with the current PCT I have laid out. Clomid will do a mighty fine job on LH & FSH and I think the addition of the Sustain would be a waste at this point.
My question is if I would get any benefit using Sustain after the PCT I listed above... thoughts?
It would look something like
Sustain 0/0/0/0/5 pumps/4 pumps/3 pumps/3 pumps
My concern is that I might suppress estrogen too long and end up with some sort of rebound effect. I've not ran sustain so I cant gauge it at this point.
If you think this is a bad idea i'll just use the Sustain for PCT on my next cycle.
Im just kicking around some ideas here
- 08-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Nolva and clomid? Interesting, I heard people ponder running them both.
I don't think Sustain is that harsh of an AI, shouldn't give you rebound IMO. If you're worried about suppressing E for too long, if you start the sustain in the 4th week, you will end quicker. But Eric is the expert seeing as how I haven't used this personally.
- 08-20-2008, 05:03 PM
08-20-2008, 05:14 PM
If it were me, I'd probably use the Sustain Alpha post PCT just to be on the safe side and possibly rebound my "boys" closer to 100%. On the other hand you could also use a cheaper AI for the same purposes and save the Sustain Alpha for another PCT where it would be of more use. Nolva and clomid are a solid combo that is often overlooked by most people who frequent the boards. FWIW, try and dose Nolva in the morning and Clomid in the evening to help minimize day time "floaters."
08-20-2008, 05:26 PM
08-20-2008, 05:51 PM
I was actually going to dose the Nolva at night and the Clomid in the morning so i'll switch it up. I think i'll just save the Sustain like you said, its pricey stuff for that purpose. What are you thoughts about just going 50/25/25/12.5/12.5 with the Clomid?
08-20-2008, 06:14 PM
08-20-2008, 09:38 PM
08-20-2008, 10:46 PM
I see no benefit to using clomid with nolvadex. Nolva is superior in that it is a pure anti-estrogen in the hypothalamus, whereas Clomid is a racemic mixture of anti and pro estrogens. You would be best off just running the Nolva alone.
The Sustain Alpha doesn’t bring estrogen down much at all. Weve finaly found that a major mechanism for its effects is related to 7,8 benzoflavone acting as an opioid antagonist, and blocking the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus, thus allowing more LH & FSh secretion. This would provide a synergistic effect with the nolva. (or clomid if you so choose)
Torm is superior to Nolva simply for being less liver toxic.
08-21-2008, 07:30 AM
08-21-2008, 02:20 PM
Clomid can get the job done, but remember, it has a racemic mixture of zuclomiphene and enclomiphene. The estrogenic zuclomiphene lingers in the body for weeks after discontinuing use, which is responsible for the emotional and estrogen “rebound” effect most experience from clomid.
(also why you have to take twice as much)
08-21-2008, 06:51 PM
Im running the test recovery stack alongside torem for PCT of a 5 week epidrol cycle. I'm only on day 4 but I definitely feel better than torem or nolva solo 4 days in. Libido seems good but the true test obviously is yet to come.
08-21-2008, 10:26 PM
08-28-2008, 10:13 AM
09-04-2008, 03:59 PM
11-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Clomid is used by endo doctors to diagnose secondary hypogonadism.
The clomid stimulation test @ 100mg ED for 5 to 7 days doubled LH output and increased FSH by 20% to 50%.
Yes nolvadex is a stronger SERM but for bumpstarting the HPTA is terrible at that.
Clomid is used for fertility in men and also to diagnose secondary hypogonadism, not nolva or any other SERM or AI, clomid is used and for good reason, it is superior to nolva for the restoration of the HPTA.
I find together they work awesome.
Got a study on that apon request.
I have helped many guys with PCT, the only ones that fail, are the ones that didnt listen, and follow directions.