madcow 5x5 bench form? cant keep bench progressing
- 11-21-2013, 12:11 AM
madcow 5x5 bench form? cant keep bench progressing
Im now on my second round of madcow 5x5 just some stats is squat and bench are about 295 x5 with good form a 160x5 for military 170 x5 barbell row and bench 240 x5. I am not a beginner and my lifts have been higher than these before, in college with social life grades is enough. Anyways ive moved my grip a little closer on the bench and i feel i take the bar down with elbows tucked but when pushing up after about an inch or two my elbows flare to directly beneath the bar, which is when the bar starts coming up slower. I've tried working on it but cant seem to get it down.. I have a feeling this is why my bench struggles to rise. I only weigh about 175-180. just curious if you guys had any input or recommendations. thanks.
- 11-21-2013, 12:12 AM
11-21-2013, 12:20 AM
Hard to say without video, but your elbows should be under the bar the whole time, they shouldn't flare back under the bar. Sounds like, in essence, you're doing a really heavy tricep extension off of your chest.
Remember, you want the bar stacked over your wrists, stacked over your elbows. I, too, have moved in my grip recently on bench, and I noticed more elbow flare from myself as well. Just keep progressing and being mindful of how your forearm sits under the bar. You might end up having to touch a little lower than you normally do.
11-21-2013, 01:00 AM
bench press on the madcow program is what i meant. But yes i will try and get a video up its just kind of hard to explain. almost like my elbows swing under the bar once its off my chest. i think its because ive been taking the bar down to around my lower chest area and then immediately start trying to push it over my head to the rack instead of just pushing straight up. You guys think thats probably why? almost like im pushing the bar diagonally over my face and my arms swing under to catch it and push straight up. if that makes any sense at all..
11-21-2013, 08:31 AM
Depending on how much and or how long you have been hitting or trying to increase this lift...
Have you thought of adding any BW?
How much more are you looking to add to that lift?
(At 5'11" you are pretty much right in the ball park for your current weight and stature)
11-21-2013, 10:01 AM
It's like I always say, touch low, press low. You should be coming down to your sternum and pressing it straight up. Pushing over your head is reserved for when you hit a sticking point.
11-21-2013, 07:17 PM
yeah ive been stronger before, but that was after a cycle of a pro hormone about two years ago. seems about every single time i build it up and hit a sticking point of about 245 x4 250 x3 and about a 275 max. Cannot progress over it. I am going to start doing a hard bulk and try and get to about 190 and im sure i will be able to pass it, but i just know i can get more weight before having the need to put on mass to get stronger. I'm lean pretty lean and have easily visisble abs, for now haha but i will be lifting tomorrow on bench press and get a video up, thanks for the input.
11-22-2013, 09:42 AM
Well, I do not have any experience with PH's really so I can't comment there.
I was able to hit a #350 natural and no gear/shirt, raw at 6" tall and fairly long arms but was about #225BW or so.
The absolute best BP program I used to get a max, was this one...
(you BP 2x per week)
80%x2x6 (reads 2 reps for a total of 6 sets)
75%x2 (these never change as they are W/U's)
80%x2x6 (keep these the same weekly, as they are great for recovery and added volume, even though they may seem pretty easy)
80% x6x6 (last of the volume weeks) Try to get every rep
105%-107% x1x1 (should be a new high single)
This was one of the better progression programs having first a build of volume then moving into lower rep intensity.
Take your best strict single at present (don't guess) then drop it to about 90%.
11-22-2013, 09:48 AM
This is likely a technical issue more than anything. Primarily, it seems like you're approaching the lift incorrectly; imagine pushing yourself into the bench instead of pushing the bar away from you. This helps to engage the lats more and maintain tightness.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-11-2013, 03:18 AM
I disagree that this is most likely a technical issue. BTW using fat gripz will make your technique pretty much perfect within a session- get a pair
The main issue I can see is not enough volume. Going by the general theme of the 5x5 template (I personally think it's less than ideal) you can start adding more sets of 5 on the volume day and switch to triples on the intensity day. Something like 6x5 on monday and 5x3 on friday would get you good results- at first
When in doubt, increase the number of lifts you do for the stuck lift. This may seem difficult adding set after set but it's as easy as repeating your last warm-up set or adding another rep into the warm-ups, then you can add worksets. Or you can work up in heavy singles but stopping before you grind then doing your volume. Or add a death-set with 50% after your main sets. Have a good play around, there is no right answer. The Beyond 5/3/1 book has plenty of great training ideas that you can apply to pretty much any template. I really like working up in singles after my main sets or repping out 50-70% of my max. Doubling up the warm-up sets is also great and keeps you fresh for the main stuff.
Put simply- you need to bench more
12-11-2013, 09:56 AM
12-11-2013, 12:57 PM
12-11-2013, 01:07 PM
12-11-2013, 07:04 PM
Damn, I guess Josh Bryant was talking out his ass when he told me that one and it was just pure luck my bar path was instantly fixed by using the fat gripz.
If bar path is ****ed with a fat bar, the bar will roll out your hands. You get instant feedback. Increasing volume reinforces ****ed up technique? Or maybe... it helps you figure out what you're doing wrong
12-11-2013, 07:11 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-11-2013, 07:17 PM
Great back-pedalling. If he has other issues, he needs to fix them. Yeah so what? Doesn't make what I said any less legitimate.
Not going to bother debating this further, OP now has plenty of ideas he can apply to his own training. It's now up to him to try them out and see what works
12-11-2013, 07:22 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-11-2013, 07:27 PM
12-11-2013, 07:34 PM
If you want further reading, I suggest A System of Multi Year Training in Weightlifting by Medvedev. It explains pretty much everything you need to know from beginner to elite based on a massive amount of research. The Sheiko programs are based on these principles and most of the top Weightlifting teams currently base their systems off them. The Chinese, Peruvian and Bulgarian teams have very similar systems. Loading protocols are different but the main theme is increasing volume over time
12-11-2013, 07:51 PM
At this level of training, it's far more important to assess if the lifter is executing the movement properly, identify weaknesses, develop them, rinse, lather, repeat for fcks sake...
12-11-2013, 07:53 PM
i agree with rodja, this sounds like a technical issue
one thing to point out though to mr OP. madcow isnt a form, its a progression scheme. and its a fuking hard one to keep up with once you start reaching bigger numbers. food for thought
12-11-2013, 07:56 PM
12-12-2013, 08:53 AM
I am not sure I understand the post completely but it sounds like you are having a problem with elbow flair. This is pretty basic and common amongst people changing their benching style and I had the same problem at one time. Honestly the way I fixed it was as one poster stated with time and volume. There was no magical solution, the more you do something the more your body will do it naturally.
12-13-2013, 08:46 PM
In a couple days I'm abut to attempt 245 for 5 once again and will let you know how it goes. I have been using a greater arch and much more tightness. Already did 240x5 and it was easier this time then the last. Fat gripz worth taking a look at or nah?
12-13-2013, 10:06 PM
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