madcow 5x5 bench form? cant keep bench progressing

[chubbsthedog6]

Im now on my second round of madcow 5x5 just some stats is squat and bench are about 295 x5 with good form a 160x5 for military 170 x5 barbell row and bench 240 x5. I am not a beginner and my lifts have been higher than these before, in college with social life grades is enough. Anyways ive moved my grip a little closer on the bench and i feel i take the bar down with elbows tucked but when pushing up after about an inch or two my elbows flare to directly beneath the bar, which is when the bar starts coming up slower. I've tried working on it but cant seem to get it down.. I have a feeling this is why my bench struggles to rise. I only weigh about 175-180. just curious if you guys had any input or recommendations. thanks.

 

[JD261985]

What's a madcow bench?

 

[herderdude]

Hard to say without video, but your elbows should be under the bar the whole time, they shouldn't flare back under the bar. Sounds like, in essence, you're doing a really heavy tricep extension off of your chest.

Remember, you want the bar stacked over your wrists, stacked over your elbows. I, too, have moved in my grip recently on bench, and I noticed more elbow flare from myself as well. Just keep progressing and being mindful of how your forearm sits under the bar. You might end up having to touch a little lower than you normally do.

 

[chubbsthedog6]

bench press on the madcow program is what i meant. But yes i will try and get a video up its just kind of hard to explain. almost like my elbows swing under the bar once its off my chest. i think its because ive been taking the bar down to around my lower chest area and then immediately start trying to push it over my head to the rack instead of just pushing straight up. You guys think thats probably why? almost like im pushing the bar diagonally over my face and my arms swing under to catch it and push straight up. if that makes any sense at all..

 

[PaulBlack]

Depending on how much and or how long you have been hitting or trying to increase this lift...
Have you thought of adding any BW?
How much more are you looking to add to that lift?
(At 5'11" you are pretty much right in the ball park for your current weight and stature)

 

[herderdude]

It's like I always say, touch low, press low. You should be coming down to your sternum and pressing it straight up. Pushing over your head is reserved for when you hit a sticking point.

 

[chubbsthedog6]

yeah ive been stronger before, but that was after a cycle of a pro hormone about two years ago. seems about every single time i build it up and hit a sticking point of about 245 x4 250 x3 and about a 275 max. Cannot progress over it. I am going to start doing a hard bulk and try and get to about 190 and im sure i will be able to pass it, but i just know i can get more weight before having the need to put on mass to get stronger. I'm lean pretty lean and have easily visisble abs, for now haha but i will be lifting tomorrow on bench press and get a video up, thanks for the input.

 

[PaulBlack]

2 cents...

Well, I do not have any experience with PH's really so I can't comment there.
I was able to hit a #350 natural and no gear/shirt, raw at 6" tall and fairly long arms but was about #225BW or so.

The absolute best BP program I used to get a max, was this one...
(you BP 2x per week)

week1
70% x2
75%x2
80%x2x6 (reads 2 reps for a total of 6 sets)

2nd day
70%x2
75%x2 (these never change as they are W/U's)
80%x3x6

Week2
W/U's...
80%x2x6

2nd day
W/U's
80%x4x6

3rd Week
...
80%x2x6 (keep these the same weekly, as they are great for recovery and added volume, even though they may seem pretty easy)

2nd day
...
80%x5x6 sets

4th week
80% x2x6

2nd day
80% x6x6 (last of the volume weeks) Try to get every rep

5th week
80% x2x6

2nd day
85% x5x5

Week 6
80-% x2x6

2nd day
90%x4x4

Week 7
80%x2x6

2nd day
95%x3x3

week 8
80%x2x6

2nd day
100% x2x2

Week9
80% x2x6
105%-107% x1x1 (should be a new high single)

This was one of the better progression programs having first a build of volume then moving into lower rep intensity.
Take your best strict single at present (don't guess) then drop it to about 90%.

 

[Rodja]

This is likely a technical issue more than anything. Primarily, it seems like you're approaching the lift incorrectly; imagine pushing yourself into the bench instead of pushing the bar away from you. This helps to engage the lats more and maintain tightness.

 

[AlexPowell]

Hey man
I disagree that this is most likely a technical issue. BTW using fat gripz will make your technique pretty much perfect within a session- get a pair
The main issue I can see is not enough volume. Going by the general theme of the 5x5 template (I personally think it's less than ideal) you can start adding more sets of 5 on the volume day and switch to triples on the intensity day. Something like 6x5 on monday and 5x3 on friday would get you good results- at first

When in doubt, increase the number of lifts you do for the stuck lift. This may seem difficult adding set after set but it's as easy as repeating your last warm-up set or adding another rep into the warm-ups, then you can add worksets. Or you can work up in heavy singles but stopping before you grind then doing your volume. Or add a death-set with 50% after your main sets. Have a good play around, there is no right answer. The Beyond 5/3/1 book has plenty of great training ideas that you can apply to pretty much any template. I really like working up in singles after my main sets or repping out 50-70% of my max. Doubling up the warm-up sets is also great and keeps you fresh for the main stuff.

Put simply- you need to bench more

 

[Rodja]

Fat Gripz fixing bench technique...I've heard it all now.

 

[dds]

Fat Gripz fixing bench technique...I've heard it all now.

bro science > all

 

[napalm]

Fat Gripz fixing bench technique...I've heard it all now.

Yeah, within a session.

The entire post is broscience, my fav part is to increase the volume of said lift: that's right son, reinforce those fck'd up recruitment patterns...

 

[AlexPowell]

Damn, I guess Josh Bryant was talking out his ass when he told me that one and it was just pure luck my bar path was instantly fixed by using the fat gripz.
If bar path is ****ed with a fat bar, the bar will roll out your hands. You get instant feedback. Increasing volume reinforces ****ed up technique? Or maybe... it helps you figure out what you're doing wrong

 

[Rodja]

Damn, I guess Josh Bryant was talking out his ass when he told me that one and it was just pure luck my bar path was instantly fixed by using the fat gripz.
If bar path is ****ed with a fat bar, the bar will roll out your hands. You get instant feedback. Increasing volume reinforces ****ed up technique? Or maybe... it helps you figure out what you're doing wrong

Fat Gripz may help with keeping his elbow and wrist aligned, but that is only a small part of the proper bench press technique; it sure as hell isn't going to fix leg drive, proper bar positioning on his torso, proper scapula tightness, etc.. His current motor programming is most likely going to be improper technique and increasing volume will only engrain this deeper and make future modifications that much more difficult to correct.

 

[AlexPowell]

Great back-pedalling. If he has other issues, he needs to fix them. Yeah so what? Doesn't make what I said any less legitimate.
Not going to bother debating this further, OP now has plenty of ideas he can apply to his own training. It's now up to him to try them out and see what works

 

[Rodja]

Great back-pedalling. If he has other issues, he needs to fix them. Yeah so what? Doesn't make what I said any less legitimate.
Not going to bother debating this further, OP now has plenty of ideas he can apply to his own training. It's now up to him to try them out and see what works

Where is this back pedaling? The examples I cited are just some of the aspects that go into proper bench technique, which has been my point all along: OP probably has suboptimal technique. Elbow/wrist alignment is only a small fraction of proper technique and is not one of the primary aspects that need to be adjusted in someone's bench technique. You're the one claiming that Fat Gripz will fix technique within a session, which is completely untrue. Nothing is corrected in one session as that is not enough time for a motor program to develop and become reinforced into the brain.

 

[napalm]

When in doubt, increase the number of lifts you do for the stuck lift.

This is what I'm having trouble with...

 

[AlexPowell]

This is what I'm having trouble with...

The Soviet Union did a lot of research in the 1960-1990 period on their athletes. They found that for the first 6 years of training or until the athlete was at a master of sport level (whichever came last) the athlete simply needed to increase their training volume to spur on results.

If you want further reading, I suggest A System of Multi Year Training in Weightlifting by Medvedev. It explains pretty much everything you need to know from beginner to elite based on a massive amount of research. The Sheiko programs are based on these principles and most of the top Weightlifting teams currently base their systems off them. The Chinese, Peruvian and Bulgarian teams have very similar systems. Loading protocols are different but the main theme is increasing volume over time

 

[napalm]

Words

But we're talking about the op, not state sponsored Bulgarian or Russian athletes. It's a shyt poor idea to throw a bunch of volume at a beginner-intermediate lifter, which is the spectrum of where I'm guessing the op is.

At this level of training, it's far more important to assess if the lifter is executing the movement properly, identify weaknesses, develop them, rinse, lather, repeat for fcks sake...

 

[OnionKnight]

i agree with rodja, this sounds like a technical issue

one thing to point out though to mr OP. madcow isnt a form, its a progression scheme. and its a fuking hard one to keep up with once you start reaching bigger numbers. food for thought

 

[AlexPowell]

But we're talking about the op, not state sponsored Bulgarian or Russian athletes. It's a shyt poor idea to throw a bunch of volume at a beginner-intermediate lifter, which is the spectrum of where I'm guessing the op is.

At this level of training, it's far more important to assess if the lifter is executing the movement properly, identify weaknesses, develop them, rinse, lather, repeat for fcks sake...

I didn't suggest that though. I made it pretty clear that he could just add more warm-up sets or an extra work set or two. It's a multi YEAR program. It's not as if you can't identify weaknesses and develop yourself at the same time as increasing volume. It's more opportunity to fix these issues. Not sure what the problem is here. More good, solid reps are needed, no one can logically refute this

 

[Joe_P]

I am not sure I understand the post completely but it sounds like you are having a problem with elbow flair. This is pretty basic and common amongst people changing their benching style and I had the same problem at one time. Honestly the way I fixed it was as one poster stated with time and volume. There was no magical solution, the more you do something the more your body will do it naturally.

 

[chubbsthedog6]

In a couple days I'm abut to attempt 245 for 5 once again and will let you know how it goes. I have been using a greater arch and much more tightness. Already did 240x5 and it was easier this time then the last. Fat gripz worth taking a look at or nah?

 

[AlexPowell]

In a couple days I'm abut to attempt 245 for 5 once again and will let you know how it goes. I have been using a greater arch and much more tightness. Already did 240x5 and it was easier this time then the last. Fat gripz worth taking a look at or nah?

They are pretty cheap, and if you don't get your money's worth you're simply not being creative enough
A video would help a lot BTW. Otherwise people are just playing guessing games