Shutdown help needed from Dr. D!

[joeyg]

Dr. D and others,

Here's my 411. I did a 3-week Ergomax cycle last summer, which concluded around July. I took all the necessary ancillary supps (CoQ-10, fish oils, CEE, RYR, Pro Liver, ALCAR, multi, glucosamine, R-ALA, etc.) and my PCT was good (Nolvadex). I gained close to 20 lbs of lean mass and even lost body fat %. Impressed with these results, I did another cycle of Ergomax (3-week) in October. Same ancillary supps and PCT. I am 24-years old (this July), 5'11". and about 200 lbs.

But after the second cycle, my testicles never returned to normal, I have felt lethargic and weak. It looks like I have gained a lot of fat and lost some of the muscle. I went to an endo who performed two blood tests. One in mid-March and one in mid-April. The first one showed total T at 411 ng/dL, the second showed total T at 450 ng/dL. To keep this in perspective, my T levels were 799 ng/dL a year ago. Both these recent tests showed high prolactin levels (18, which is the max of the normal range). My liver, heart, etc. numbers came out all fine. I told my endo that my libido is very low, my ejaculate volume is very low, and my balls are still small. She felt around and said they were normal size but soft to the touch, which indicates hypogonadism. She knows that I have taken a potent oral anabolic, but she thinks it couldn't have been potent enough to cause the HPTA to go awry. She called me back saying she feels my T levels are okay and that the other problems are in my head. And that she or her colleages (at Stanford) feel uncomfortable prescribing hCG or anything else.

So f#ck them. This is where I need your help. I am thinking of starting a 4-6 week cycle using Clomid, Nolvadex, DHEA, fenugreek, cabergoline, and anything else that may help. From my initial research, it seems hCG would just suppress me further at this point, but would be willing to get it if you think it would help. Should I try Rebound XT or another steroidal AI? What dosages of the above compounds and what schedule of PCT would you recommend? What, if any, should I add to this list? Please help a bro in trouble.

J.

 

[Cretino_Popov]

Dr. D and others,

Here's my 411. I did a 3-week Ergomax cycle last summer, which concluded around July. I took all the necessary ancillary supps (CoQ-10, fish oils, CEE, RYR, Pro Liver, ALCAR, multi, glucosamine, R-ALA, etc.) and my post cycle therapy was good (Nolvadex). I gained close to 20 lbs of lean mass and even lost body fat %. Impressed with these results, I did another cycle of Ergomax (3-week) in October. Same ancillary supps and PCT. I am 24-years old (this July), 5'11". and about 200 lbs.

But after the second cycle, my testicles never returned to normal, I have felt lethargic and weak. It looks like I have gained a lot of fat and lost some of the muscle. I went to an endo who performed two blood tests. One in mid-March and one in mid-April. The first one showed total T at 411 ng/dL, the second showed total T at 450 ng/dL. To keep this in perspective, my T levels were 799 ng/dL a year ago. Both these recent tests showed high prolactin levels (18, which is the max of the normal range). My liver, heart, etc. numbers came out all fine. I told my endo that my libido is very low, my ejaculate volume is very low, and my balls are still small. She felt around and said they were normal size but soft to the touch, which indicates hypogonadism. She knows that I have taken a potent oral anabolic, but she thinks it couldn't have been potent enough to cause the HPTA to go awry. She called me back saying she feels my T levels are okay and that the other problems are in my head. And that she or her colleages (at Stanford) feel uncomfortable prescribing hCG or anything else.

So f#ck them. This is where I need your help. I am thinking of starting a 4-6 week cycle using Clomid, Nolvadex, DHEA, fenugreek, cabergoline, and anything else that may help. From my initial research, it seems hCG would just suppress me further at this point, but would be willing to get it if you think it would help. Should I try Rebound XT or another steroidal AI? What dosages of the above compounds and what schedule of PCT would you recommend? What, if any, should I add to this list? Please help a bro in trouble.

J.

get some proviron dude, that's gonna have you back in the game in no time, tamorifene is also a better choice for hard shutdown.

good luck! may your balls be with you!

 

[joeyg]

get some proviron dude, that's gonna have you back in the game in no time, tamorifene is also a better choice for hard shutdown.

good luck! may your balls be with you!

I think Proviron will repress natural T recovery. Proviron is DHT. Increased supraphysiological DHT will cause the HPTA to curtail T production as T is the precursor to DHT (via 5-alpha reductase). Can someone tell me if this is right? Dr. D?

Is toremifene better for shutdown than tamoxifen? I thought it just had lower side effects. Tamox has never caused problems for me in the past.

J.

 

[ripped218]

I think Proviron will repress natural T recovery. Proviron is DHT. Increased supraphysiological DHT will cause the HPTA to curtail T production as T is the precursor to DHT (via 5-alpha reductase). Can someone tell me if this is right? Dr. D?

Is toremifene better for shutdown than tamoxifen? I thought it just had lower side effects. Tamox has never caused problems for me in the past.

J.

Yeah proviron is an adrogen so it will keep you shut down,i would run some hcg,DR.D recommends that for prolonged shutdown.

 

[joeyg]

Yeah proviron is an adrogen so it will keep you shut down,i would run some hcg,DR.D recommends that for prolonged shutdown.

Thanks, man. I am afraid of trying hCG because I am worried it will shut me down further. Also, I have never pinned before. I have no idea how to do it and how to recombine hCG. I am hoping that I can get out of the hole here using orals, such as tamox (or toremifene), Clomid, DHEA, cabergoline, etc. But if hCG is needed, then I will find it and figure out how to pin. Dr. D?

J.

 

[joeyg]

Thanks, man. I am afraid of trying hCG because I am worried it will shut me down further. Also, I have never pinned before. I have no idea how to do it and how to recombine hCG. I am hoping that I can get out of the hole here using orals, such as tamox (or toremifene), Clomid, DHEA, cabergoline, etc. But if hCG is needed, then I will find it and figure out how to pin. Dr. D?

J.

Bizump.

 

[xtraflossy]

ERGO will shut you down pretty hard.
You should have rebounded by now, but your process back to normal sounds pretty rough.
Your second PCT looks thoughtout, and hopefully do the trick

I wish my doctors were female. Well, hot and female:study:

 

[rocketscientist]

You probably had your male hormone modulating profile done. Do happen to have your free T-levels, LH/FSH, dhea-s etc are. They can probably give more info on what's wrong.

Don't really see a reason to use more than one SERM and torimifene altogether seems to be the best choice that's out there. Using fenugreek or tribulus and DHEA should pretty much hit into the same notch (though clomid and DHEA alone might to the trick too) but maybe over a different mechanism.

And cabergoline... just for curiosity, I'd start out the first days without it and then use it to see its effects - or the other way around.

 

[southernmuscle]

It seems your having some serious prolactin issues here. I would follow Rocketscientist idea and definitely throw some Cabergoline in the mix. HCG would probably help bring the size of your boys back but might irritate any gyno issues you might be having if any. HCG works but make sure your control your estrogen and prolactin levels as it seems your body is having some issues in these areas. Hope this helps.

 

[joeyg]

Thanks, bros. Glad to see people helping someone in need. I don't have any gyno problems (at least none that I have noticed). I have noticed though that I am putting on fat even though my diet is low in fat. Here're the other stats from my first test (March):

Total T: 411
% free T: 1.95 (range: 1.1-2.8)
Free T: 80.1 (35.0-155.0)
TSH: 1.86 (range: 0.49-4.67 uIU/mL)
FSH: 2.1 (range: 1-8 mIU/mL)
Prolactin: 18.0 (range: 1.61-18.77 ng/mL)
TSI: 83 (range: 125 or less)
Estradiol: 16 (range: 10-50 pg/mL)

Anyone care to help me develop a cycle using Clomid, toremifene, cabergoline, DHEA, and anything else that may help?

Dr. D: I would really appreciate your advice in this matter. I am a bit scared that my HPTA is permanently f#cked.

J.

 

[joeyg]

Bump to Dr. D.

 

[rocketscientist]

Ah, what's left that you need to know?

I don't think your HPTA is completely messed up, maybe just a bit confused. Your hormone levels are low but still within the normal range. Of all maybe FSH seems a little low. Clomid should help with that. Tamox. or Tormemifene should do the same though I don't know how they compare to clomid for this particular use, though people that used it seem to say that torem. works better.

But overall just do another 3-4 weeks of PCT as was mentioned above. Dr.D has a complete plan posted somewhere (more than once AFAIK).

The other option would be to try cabergoline, since higher levels of prolactin can cause similar symptoms (from what I read even at levels of 15 ng/ml) even though the other levels would seem fine. Personally I would be curious to see what happens if you try cab. and see if things improve within a couple of days... Might be interesting for others that seem to have similar issues after PCT where libido is low but test levels seem normal.

 

[joeyg]

Ah, what's left that you need to know?

I don't think your HPTA is completely messed up, maybe just a bit confused. Your hormone levels are low but still within the normal range. Of all maybe FSH seems a little low. Clomid should help with that. Tamox. or Tormemifene should do the same though I don't know how they compare to clomid for this particular use, though people that used it seem to say that torem. works better.

But overall just do another 3-4 weeks of post cycle therapy as was mentioned above. Dr.D has a complete plan posted somewhere (more than once AFAIK).

The other option would be to try cabergoline, since higher levels of prolactin can cause similar symptoms (from what I read even at levels of 15 ng/ml) even though the other levels would seem fine. Personally I would be curious to see what happens if you try cab. and see if things improve within a couple of days... Might be interesting for others that seem to have similar issues after PCT where libido is low but test levels seem normal.

Thanks, rocket. What I don't know is whether I should add DHEA or anything else into the mix? And at what doses?

J.

 

[joeyg]

Here is a recovery cycle I came up. Feel free to bash it to pieces. Dr. D, can you sign off on it or provide changes? Thanks, gentlemen.

J.

 

[rocketscientist]

Here is a recovery cycle I came up. Feel free to bash it to pieces. Dr. D, can you sign off on it or provide changes? Thanks, gentlemen.

J.

Can you just post it as plain text instead of an attachment. It's easier to bash that way.

I would add DHEA. It seems to make a difference not only in my experience.

 

[joeyg]

Clomid Torem. DHEA Cabergoline Fenugreek Trib. Finasteride
Day 1 300 mg/d 120 mg/d 200 mg/d 0.5 mg 3x/wk 4 caps/d 5 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 2 150 mg/d 120 mg/d 200 mg/d 0.5 mg 3x/wk 4 caps/d 5 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 3-7 100 mg/d 90 mg/d 200 mg/d 0.5 mg 3x/wk 4 caps/d 5 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 8-14 50 mg/d 90 mg/d 150 mg/d 0.5 mg 3x/wk 5 caps/d 6 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 15-22 50 mg/d 60 mg/d 150 mg/d 0.5 mg 2x/wk 5 caps/d 7 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 23-29 25 mg/d 60 mg/d 100 mg/d 0.5 mg 2x/wk 5 caps/d 8 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 30-36 25 mg/d 30 mg/d 100 mg/d 0.5 mg 1x/wk 6 caps/d 9 caps/n 0.625 mg/d
Day 37-42 25 mg/d 30 mg/d 50 mg/d 0.5 mg 1x/wk 6 caps/d 10 caps/n 0.625 mg/d

Can someone help me with formatting? I tried but can't fix this; that's why I attached the Word document.

 

[rocketscientist]

Why are you taking finasteride - is your libido too high?

I also don't see why you would be taking both, clomid and toremifene. Maybe just use clomid the first week and toremifene the rest - or just toremifene. Same for trib and fenugreek - one or the other would be good.

Cabergoline I would keep a steady 1-2 x per week since your levels are only slightly elevated and you are not taking anything that increases prolactin levels.

Overall - not sure about the doses. You're not shut-down but rather just need some support, so I would guess that you wouldn't really need the high doses you list during the first week.

Just my opinion.

 

[yeahright]

The other option would be to try cabergoline, since higher levels of prolactin can cause similar symptoms (from what I read even at levels of 15 ng/ml) even though the other levels would seem fine. Personally I would be curious to see what happens if you try cab. and see if things improve within a couple of days... Might be interesting for others that seem to have similar issues after PCT where libido is low but test levels seem normal.

Yes, his prolactin number jumped out at me.

 

[cdr777]

I am going through the same thing after a short cycle of SD. I finally got an Endo who is really familiar with AAS protocols...I have a lot of the same symptoms you do. My endo explained things to me like this. Running a SERM (Nolva, Clomid etc) causes an LH surge that follows wiith a FSH increase that kicks in the testes to start producing T again. His reasoning was "if HcG mimics the LH surge that occurs from the use of SERM, why use HcG" He went on to say that use of HcG on cycle would make more sense than post cycle. But he is an MD... Anyway...hang in there...you're not alone!!

 

[joeyg]

@rocketscientist: I am taking finasteride because of some hair loss and also because Dr. D recommended it in an earlier protocol to SAGABOY.

@cdr77: Glad to know I'm not alone in this, man. Let's share information to come up with a great recovery PCT for both of us. Maybe you can suggest changes to the one I posted earlier.

J.

 

[joeyg]

I also don't see why you would be taking both, clomid and toremifene. Maybe just use clomid the first week and toremifene the rest - or just toremifene. Same for trib and fenugreek - one or the other would be good.

Cabergoline I would keep a steady 1-2 x per week since your levels are only slightly elevated and you are not taking anything that increases prolactin levels.

Does it hurt to take both Comid and torem? Can I take Clomid for two weeks and use the same torem protocol for six weeks?As per cabergoline, I am taking it 3x/week only in the beginning and then tapering down to 2x/week and 1x/week by the end. Do you think this is still too much? Does it hurt to take fenugreek and trib together? I really just want to go balls out to make sure I don't have to do this again.

Please advise. I want to order all the stuff today so I can start the long road to recovery ASAP.

J.

 

[rocketscientist]

I don't know why one would take two serms that should do basically the same thing and toremifene seems the better choice since it seems to have less side-effects. But I haven't tried it myself, so I can't really say anything from personal experience.

Same for tribulus and fenugreek - both should support raising LH, so they do the same thing. Cycling them seems a better choice. Fenugreek supposedly loses its effectiveness after a couple of weeks.

For proscar - I looked at the thread you mentioned and think it's because of the hcg and maybe the high doses of DHEA.

 

[joeyg]

I don't know why one would take two serms that should do basically the same thing and toremifene seems the better choice since it seems to have less side-effects. But I haven't tried it myself, so I can't really say anything from personal experience.

Same for tribulus and fenugreek - both should support raising LH, so they do the same thing. Cycling them seems a better choice. Fenugreek supposedly loses its effectiveness after a couple of weeks.

For proscar - I looked at the thread you mentioned and think it's because of the hcg and maybe the high doses of DHEA.

I am taking the same high doses of DHEA so will keep the finasteride. I will refine my protocol for 3 weeks of trib and 3 of fenugreek -- do you think that's better? And I will frontload Clomid and taper it over 2 weeks and use torem thereafter. Does that work? Any other input?

J.

 

[joeyg]

Bump. Would like to put in the order today. Dr. D -- can you sign off on this with suggestions? I really appreciate all your help everyone.

J.

 

[DR.D]

Bump. Would like to put in the order today. Dr. D -- can you sign off on this with suggestions? I really appreciate all your help everyone.

J.

Sorry Joey, I just saw this. Please feel free to email me at the DS email under my name if you ever need to get my attention. Also, everyone's suggestions have been good so far. The guys here are not only smart but caring too.

Your plan looks good but let me suggest these changes:

wk1: 120mg Toremifene, 3 fen caps, 4 trib caps
wk2: 60-90mg Toremifene, 4 fen caps, 5 trib caps
wk3: 30-60mg Toremifene, 5 fen caps, 6 trib caps
wk4: 30mg Toremifene
wk5: 30mg Toremifene, 3 fen caps, 4 trib caps
wk6: 30mg Toremifene, 4 fen caps, 5 trib caps
wk7: 30mg Toremifene, 5 fen caps, 6 trib caps
wk8: 30mg Toremifene

The finasteride is a good idea like you planned it and you can take DHEA if you want but it's not required necessarily in your case. The cab is good at 0.5mg EOD all the way through, for 2-6 months to noramlize test. The hCG is not required, but would be helpful the first few weeks for sure. Otherwise I strongly suggest RXT @ 25mg/d. Clomid is my second choice, but you don't need to stack it with the tor.

 

[joeyg]

Sorry Joey, I just saw this. Please feel free to email me at the DS email under my name if you ever need to get my attention. Also, everyone's suggestions have been good so far. The guys here are not only smart but caring too.

Your plan looks good but let me suggest these changes:

wk1: 120mg Toremifene, 3 fen caps, 4 trib caps
wk2: 60-90mg Toremifene, 4 fen caps, 5 trib caps
wk3: 30-60mg Toremifene, 5 fen caps, 6 trib caps
wk4: 30mg Toremifene
wk5: 30mg Toremifene, 3 fen caps, 4 trib caps
wk6: 30mg Toremifene, 4 fen caps, 5 trib caps
wk7: 30mg Toremifene, 5 fen caps, 6 trib caps
wk8: 30mg Toremifene

The finasteride is a good idea like you planned it and you can take DHEA if you want but it's not required necessarily in your case. The cab is good at 0.5mg EOD all the way through, for 2-6 months to noramlize test. The hCG is not required, but would be helpful the first few weeks for sure. Otherwise I strongly suggest RXT @ 25mg/d. Clomid is my second choice, but you don't need to stack it with the tor.

Thanks so much, Dr. D. Isn't RXT a ATD? Won't it cause high estrogen reuptake and suppress me further? I am really interested in getting my boys back and that's why I thought Clomid would be good. Can I do the first two weeks Clomid and the rest torem? Is my DHEA dosing okay?

J.

 

[DR.D]

Thanks so much, Dr. D. Isn't RXT a ATD? Won't it cause high estrogen reuptake and suppress me further? I am really interested in getting my boys back and that's why I thought Clomid would be good. Can I do the first two weeks Clomid and the rest torem? Is my DHEA dosing okay?

J.

Sure thing Joey, we'll get you back to normal again so don't worry. Yes, RXT is the same as ATD. It will not cause suppression. It prevents the formation of estrogen as your test levels rise from the SERM, so it's a good part of the plan. The DHEA dosing looks fine. You can use Clomid the first 2 wks if you like. You could do 150, 100 and then switch to the tor at 30-60mg/d depending on your response.

 

[joeyg]

Sure thing Joey, we'll get you back to normal again so don't worry. Yes, RXT is the same as ATD. It will not cause suppression. It prevents the formation of estrogen as your test levels rise from the SERM, so it's a good part of the plan. The DHEA dosing looks fine. You can use Clomid the first 2 wks if you like. You could do 150, 100 and then switch to the tor at 30-60mg/d depending on your response.

Instead of RXT, can I just use an AI? I have Arimidex. Shouldn't the Clomid and torem keep the estrogen in check? As per your advice, I will use Clomid for the first two weeks and torem for the remainder.

J.

 

[joeyg]

Here is an updated cycle based on Dr. D's comments. Please see attached. Dr. D -- could you please review and sign off if you think it's what I need?

J.

 

[DR.D]

Here is an updated cycle based on Dr. D's comments. Please see attached. Dr. D -- could you please review and sign off if you think it's what I need?

J.

The new cycle looks fine. If you use an AI, only use a steroidal AI like (Exemestane, Teslac).

Letro and Arimidex are counter productive in your case because they do lower estrogen very well but also interfere with steroid biogenesis. They are called enzyme inhibitors and should never be used in high doses on cycle or in PCT at all.

The Clomid and torem will keep estrogen in check at estrogen receptors, but it won't stop estrogen from forming. In your case (trying to get turned back on) this can also be counter productive in the long run because a rebound effect is possible after months or SERM use once testosterone levels are super high. RXT/ATD @ 25mg/d works well. If your libido sensitive, try Rebound Reloaded. There are also the pharmaceuticals I mentioned earlier.

 

[yeahright]

If your libido sensitive, try Rebound Reloaded.

RR actually released yet?

 

[joeyg]

The new cycle looks fine. If you use an AI, only use a steroidal AI like (Exemestane, Teslac).

Letro and Arimidex are counter productive in your case because they do lower estrogen very well but also interfere with steroid biogenesis. They are called enzyme inhibitors and should never be used in high doses on cycle or in post cycle therapy at all.

The Clomid and torem will keep estrogen in check at estrogen receptors, but it won't stop estrogen from forming. In your case (trying to get turned back on) this can also be counter productive in the long run because a rebound effect is possible after months or SERM use once testosterone levels are super high. RXT/ATD @ 25mg/d works well. If your libido sensitive, try Rebound Reloaded. There are also the pharmaceuticals I mentioned earlier.

Should I use RXT @ 25 mg/d throughout or taper down / ramp up?

 

[joeyg]

Where can I get Rebound Reloaded? My libido gets shot to sh#t on an ATD.

 

[yeahright]

Where can I get Rebound Reloaded? My libido gets shot to sh#t on an ATD.

Nutraplanet is running a pre-sale but it loooks like it won't be shipping until early June.

 

[DR.D]

RR actually released yet?

Maybe not. I thought it might be by now though. I'll find out.

 

[DR.D]

Should I use RXT @ 25 mg/d throughout or taper down / ramp up?

Yeah, if it jacks with you're libido, just keep it at 25mg, but I normally suggest upping to 50mg in the last half of PCT.

 

[lilman]

what exactly is cabergoline. I can ask that i think. if not sorry.

 

[ripped218]

what exactly is cabergoline. I can ask that i think. if not sorry.

It's a Dopamine agonist,dopamine is the main feedback back loop that lowers prolactin levels.

 

[lilman]

thanks, so where does prolactin come into play with estrogen?

 

[ripped218]

thanks, so where does prolactin come into play with estrogen?

Estrogen and Progestin are the main culprits in gyno formation,prolactin comes in and causes lactation in men in women,so Dopamine agonists help to stop the sometimes embarrasing fluid that comes out of the nipples after a cycle.

 

[lax]

If I am doing a 4 week Halodrol (50mg ED) and Megazol (150mg) cycle and plan on taking Clomid (research chem) and Nolva (research chem), should I take them together at night?? Should I take Nolva at night and Clomid in morning??
Would appreciate help b/c I never have taken Clomid, but have taken Nolva.

Will be: WK 1: 110mg Clomid, 60 mg Nolva, Novedex
WK 2: 110 Clomid, 40 Nolva, Novedex 2
WK 3: Nolva 20, Novedex 2
WK 4: Nolva 20, Novedex 2

May get rid of Novedex (Everyone suggests to get rid of)

Will be taking Retain, Activate, Fenurgreek, Milk Thistle, and all the other needed supplements

 

[DR.D]

If I am doing a 4 week Halodrol (50mg ED) and Megazol (150mg) cycle and plan on taking Clomid (research chem) and Nolva (research chem), should I take them together at night?? Should I take Nolva at night and Clomid in morning??
Would appreciate help b/c I never have taken Clomid, but have taken Nolva.

Will be: WK 1: 110mg Clomid, 60 mg Nolva, Novedex
WK 2: 110 Clomid, 40 Nolva, Novedex 2
WK 3: Nolva 20, Novedex 2
WK 4: Nolva 20, Novedex 2

May get rid of Novedex (Everyone suggests to get rid of)

Will be taking Retain, Activate, Fenurgreek, Milk Thistle, and all the other needed supplements

I would take them separately. Start with Clomid. 300mg the first few days then 150,100 for two wks. After that, you can switch to low dose Nolva (20-40mg) for 2-6 more wks as needed. The rest of your plan looks fine. Activate is a great addition to PCT. You could add the Novedex later in PCT, or you may not even require it.

 

[joeyg]

Dr. D --

It is now almost the fourth week into my long PCT and nothing has changed. As my cycle suggested, I ran Clomid for two weeks, and have been on toremifene for two weeks. I have been using cabergoline EOD at 1 mg. All these products are from IBE. My boys are still hanging high and small. Haven't had any morning wood for a while. Erections suck.

I pinned myself with 500 IUs of hCG on Monday and another 500 IUs today. Haven't felt any different. My ActivaTe and 6-OXO arrived today.

What do you suggest? Should I do more hCG and drop the toremifene altogether? Also, how should I dose (taper/ramp up?) the ActivaTe and 6-OXO? Thanks much.

J.

 

[lax]

I only have one container of Clomid, which equals 1,500 mg of clomid. How would you suggest using it Dr. D??? I have it at 110 per day, since that would give me 2 weeks. Would you suggest a different strategy???

Would going up to 200 mg of Megazol last two weeks of cycle be a bad idea??

Also going to add Cissus and Powerfull to post cycle therapy.

 

[joeyg]

Dr. D --

It is now almost the fourth week into my long post cycle therapy and nothing has changed. As my cycle suggested, I ran Clomid for two weeks, and have been on toremifene for two weeks. I have been using cabergoline EOD at 1 mg. All these products are from IBE. My boys are still hanging high and small. Haven't had any morning wood for a while. Erections suck.

I pinned myself with 500 IUs of hCG on Monday and another 500 IUs today. Haven't felt any different. My ActivaTe and 6-OXO arrived today.

What do you suggest? Should I do more hCG and drop the toremifene altogether? Also, how should I dose (taper/ramp up?) the ActivaTe and 6-OXO? Thanks much.

J.

BUMP.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D --

It is now almost the fourth week into my long post cycle therapy and nothing has changed. As my cycle suggested, I ran Clomid for two weeks, and have been on toremifene for two weeks. I have been using cabergoline EOD at 1 mg. All these products are from IBE. My boys are still hanging high and small. Haven't had any morning wood for a while. Erections suck.

I pinned myself with 500 IUs of hCG on Monday and another 500 IUs today. Haven't felt any different. My ActivaTe and 6-OXO arrived today.

What do you suggest? Should I do more hCG and drop the toremifene altogether? Also, how should I dose (taper/ramp up?) the ActivaTe and 6-OXO? Thanks much.

J.

No, just keep going. 60mg tor/d and 500iu hCG 2x/wk. It can take months if you're really shutdown. I guess start the 6-oxo at ~300mg/d for now just to balance the hCG and work up as needed once you start to bounce from the SERM. Take the ACT at a std dose (4-6 cap/d).

 

[DR.D]

I only have one container of Clomid (IBE), which equals 1,500 mg of clomid. How would you suggest using it Dr. D??? I have it at 110 per day, since that would give me 2 weeks. Would you suggest a different strategy???

Would going up to 200 mg of Megazol last two weeks of cycle be a bad idea??

Also going to add Cissus and Powerfull to post cycle therapy.

That all sounds fine to me, but remember that IBE products are for research use only. They are not drugs and are not intended for food, drug or household use. Get some real Clomid from your doctor and then proceed as you had planned.

 

[LakeMountD]

That all sounds fine to me, but remember that IBE products are for research use only. They are not drugs and are not intended for food, drug or household use. Get some real Clomid from your doctor and then proceed as you had planned.

Dr.D is correct on this one.

I also agree with what he says (haha about HIS product, it isn't like he wouldn't know about it!) about lowering RXT dosage to 25mg if libido becomes a problem. Just remember as your natty test levels begin to come back more and more RXT will increase libido, it is in the beginning where I saw the problems with libido when trying to use higher dosages of an AI.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DR.D again.

 

[4thAD]

too late for HCG it will only keep your natural test shut down! Using HCG as a bridge gap is old school thinking! I would kick up the tribulus with atleast (I stress this at minimum or your wasting your $$) 40% or higher saponins!

 

[LakeMountD]

too late for HCG it will only keep your natural test shut down! Using HCG as a bridge gap is old school thinking! I would kick up the tribulus with atleast (I stress this at minimum or your wasting your $$) 40% or higher saponins!

Tribulus will do nothing but raise your libido. It does nothing to the steroid hormones naturally produced by your body.