- 08-28-2005, 08:29 PM
I'm a punk because I asked you for some articles to back up your claims? Mmmk. You're looking quite incredible here. Hopefully people reading this will realize that.
I've spent the last couple hours attempting to research your claims and I've come up with nothing. I've no problem continuing the debate, but you seem to lack the time to provide a simple journal article to substantiate your claims. Do you think your time is better spent insulting me than backing up the things you say?
- 08-28-2005, 08:32 PM
What you dont get is you asking Dr.D to backup his claims is like asking Steven Hawkings to prove a basic physics principle.
He's earned the right not to have to "prove himself" to someone like you. Read up, bulkego.
edit: If he were to be in development of a new theory regarding rate of decay of testosterone, maybe we'd ask him to back up his beliefs
- 08-28-2005, 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by CEDeoudes59
08-28-2005, 08:34 PM
I never implied a linear relationship.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
This isn't simple biochemistry so it isn't common knowledge. If it was, I would have no problem backing up his claims by researching it.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
I have no ego problems. I've already mentioned numerous times I've no problem admitting I'm wrong about something.
Thanks for adding something constructive to the discussion!Originally Posted by CEDeoudes59
08-28-2005, 08:41 PM
You're getting a pass b/c you don't know Dr.D well
You "implied" a linear relationship when you said there was 100mg missing of test (he said 400mg remaining, about) when after 10.5 days of 1000mg of Test Enan. If you explain your rationale behind that statement, maybe I"ll believe you weren't implying a linear rate of decay.
Sorry if I misinterpreted you....but, that's how you came off...
08-28-2005, 08:48 PM
Okay well 1000mg enanthate injected right? After 10.5 days there will be half remaining, 500mg. Hence the half-life of 10.5 days
But he said there would only be 400mg, and that an additional 100mg would have been hydrolyzed or something a rather.
08-28-2005, 08:50 PM
sorry... consider it comic relief, I haven't even read the thread. It's been a long lousy day. forgive my comment - I didn't even know who the argument was between.Originally Posted by bulkmuscle
...and away we go
My Little Site about Hair Loss & Anabolics-
hair loss from steroids dot com
08-28-2005, 08:56 PM
Everyone needs to stop being rude to one another. Discuss as long as you like but cease with the negativity.
08-28-2005, 09:01 PM
08-28-2005, 09:02 PM
No joke about the quitting being rude... I would really look bad for three people to get banned due to their inability to be civil to each other.. I did take time to edit one post that seemed to be the one that started the rude comments..
08-28-2005, 09:09 PM
this was my first rude post since 03
im sorry, I did it for kwycke
sorry I told on you !
My Little Site about Hair Loss & Anabolics-
hair loss from steroids dot com
08-28-2005, 10:51 PM
08-29-2005, 07:48 AM
I think the calc idea is a good one.. and really useful, of course it would be more useful if it were as accurate as possible... I think the intentions by bulk were honorable... Although Bulks never been a very good Debator, He's probably just a bit upset that his well planned good intentions were run a bit amuck. Not everyone can be a diplomat.
If the pct calc, could be perfected to something more accurate, I'd keep it booked marked... Although It's not a huge concern for me, as I believe in a 2 month pct aswell, coming off with a short ester, including all sorts of heavy hitting goodies (IGF, HGH, ADT (or is it ATD.. I forget), Activate) etc....
08-29-2005, 09:04 AM
Never been a good debator? What are you talking about? Apparently you didn't read this thread very well.Originally Posted by Poobah
DR.D has committed a fallacy. He has appealed to authority without providing any sources for his claims. I've attempted to find some for him and found nothing.
08-29-2005, 09:39 AM
I'm sorry. He hasn't earned the right.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
He's doing nothing but bashing and yes he DOES have to prove (cite) references for what he states. Moreso than most of us in my opinion given his "stature" on this board.
Instead of bashing this calculator.. why don't some of you ****tards offer up some advice to improve it. Maybe Bulkmuscle can include a couple different PCT scenerios that are employed.
I think some of you like to cause more problems than help to solve them because you like the sound of your own voice (words).
08-29-2005, 10:01 AM
So ****tards huh??? You have just sealed the fate of this thread. Read a few posts higher... where this what warned about.Originally Posted by houseman
08-29-2005, 10:04 AM
The fate was sealed.Originally Posted by DAdams91982
You have someone here trying to develop a vey useful tool and is getting no helpful feedback expect smack.
Perhaps if people kept their ego in check Bulkmuscle could develop the tool to be effective for most people and not just those that subscribe to the long taper and when to start PCT.
MANY people do, by the way.
08-29-2005, 10:08 AM
Yes it was running amuck... but it seems to me that after the warning... people where discussing in a professional manner.Originally Posted by houseman
Oh well... Im just going to stay out of it.
08-29-2005, 10:17 AM
08-29-2005, 10:35 AM
Sorry bulk nothing personal... I'm a lover not a fighter.Originally Posted by bulkmuscle
(I did read the thread, and I do appreciate the effort you put in to that calc...)
08-29-2005, 11:33 AM
Bulkmuscle, is your calculator correct? It seems to be a little off. I just plugged in the numbers to simulate a single administration of 600mg enanthate and got this:-
day 10 - 331mg, day 21 - 160mg, day 31 - 83mg, day 42 - 40mg
Shouldn't it be close to 300, 150, 75, 37mg?
Anyway, its an interesting topic you brought up. Not many calculate the compounded amounts of all the injections and their halflifes.
08-29-2005, 01:48 PM
Poobah- I agree with you on how this calculator, although may not be 100% accurate, could be quite useful and does prove to a point how it is useful to end cycles with orals/short esters.
Houseman- DR.D has proved himself many times around here and is one of the most, if not the most, knowledgeable person on this board when it comes to AAS/science/chemicals. He has been involved with it most of his life and even works in the pharmaceutical field if I remember correctly. He wasnt bashing anyone without reason to do so, the argument turned sour, so things arose. Bottom line: DR.D knows his ****!!
08-29-2005, 01:54 PM
He still has tp prove himself.Originally Posted by Nate Dawg
What give him, or anyone really, to just say what he thinks/knows/believes without having to back it up as all?
You make it sound like I just came to Am.com. I've been here for a couple years now. Before, I believe, Doc got on the scene.
I'm not saying he doesn't have knowledge. We know he does but forgive me if I I don't blindly believe and trust 100% what one says. If he isn't willing to provide his research (or at least link to it) in this discussion then why should I believe? Just because *I* know he knows his stuff?
Bulkmuscle doesn't know him from a hole in the wall I bet yet you want him to blindly follow? Doesn't that kind follow the "brotelligence" mentality we've been trying to get away from the past few years here?
08-29-2005, 02:17 PM
I know you have been here for quite awhile, its not like I have never seen your posts before. If you want studies to back some of this up, where are the studies to back up the pct calculator? Yes it gives studies, but none of them are on half-lives, ironically the whole point of the pct calculator. One study is about the effects of testosterone in men, makes you bigger/stronger, well no ****! The other is simply about HRT for men and what the average concentration test levels are for the normal man...again nothing to do with half lives. I am not expecting anyone to follow someone blindly, simply DR.D has the experience with all of these compounds to know how they work in the body. This discussion is going nowhere....the only thing at this point to prove something, is someone doing bloodwork throughout their entire cycle and running bloodwork everyweek once cessation of the testosterone and monitoring test levels for several weeks past the last administration of exogenous test. Dont think there are too many studies around about that though...Originally Posted by houseman
08-29-2005, 02:21 PM
Hence why I suggest someone providing info that could HELP improve the calculator for different PCT methods.
I know plenty of guys who do DO PCT like this and it works really well for them. They swear by it.
But, people do things differently and perhaps Bulk can expand on this tool with the help of people so a LOT of people cna benefit instead of just some.
The guy comes up with a nifty tool/idea and he gets slammed for having a different PCT method than what most here are used to. HELP the guy out... don't **** on him.
Now, if he choose to ignore studies posted by our all knowing Pappa Doc then let's **** on him. lol
08-29-2005, 02:37 PM
08-29-2005, 03:05 PM
I'll just add this from personal experience... I know coming off a long ester cycle it takes me about 5 weeks before my sex drive goes from insanely high.. to down the crapper.... 5 weeks... To me that leads some credibility to the timing of this pct calculator.. and I'm sure I'm not the only one that experiences 4-6 week libido crashes post cycle. I swear I fuked like a insane bunny all during PCT, my new girlfriend at the time didn't know what the frig hit her..... The whole time I'm thinking pct is a piece of cake. But like all good things it came to a end.
The point is.. I'm pretty sure as long as there is at least a level at or above what you body normally puts out, your sex drive will be intact... once below this point, the crash begins... Timing wise, bulks calculator makes more sense then the 2 week method....
Granted, due to the onset of effective pct supps... it is probably foolish to wait 5-6 weeks.... Also In my mind the use of products like rxt and activate can mask to some degree the level of testosterone in your body potentially allowing recovery that much sooner then normal... right now I'm leaning to 3-4 weeks.. using test prop a week out from pct start date. and like I mentioned earlier I'll be running that for 8 weeks.
If anyone else has something helpful to add by all means please do... When do you experience libido crash on a long ester cycle?
08-29-2005, 03:32 PM
08-29-2005, 03:38 PM
Ending my last cycle at 750mg/week test cyp, around week 3 I could definately tell test levels were dropping, and week 4 was just that "oh ****" feeling where I could tell I was crashing.
08-29-2005, 08:13 PM
For the second, and last time, do your own research. I already told you I would not provide links. I learned most of this **** before the internet was even invented. You can't necessarily run a 2 hour search and figure out what's taken me years to learn. If you don't believe me, I could really give a **** less at this point. Your loss, but if you don't keep my name out of your mouth, you will be committing the fallacy. Seriously, I don't want to here another word from you about this unless it's an apology for your ****ty attitude and an admission of your error on the calculation.Originally Posted by bulkmuscle
08-29-2005, 08:27 PM
Are you talking to me?! Maybe you should learn how to read before you pop off at the mouth again. Goooooo back, read what I said again (it's post #12 in case you're too "challenged" to find it). I was confirming his calculation but warning of it's shortcomings too. I don't have a damn thing to prove to you or any one else. Learn for yourself if you’re so narrow minded, and when you realize I was right, don't bother to post it. I already know. You and bulk are the only troublemaker I see here. DO NOT get derogatory with me again. I did not disserve it and will not tolerate it.Originally Posted by houseman
08-29-2005, 11:16 PM
this bashing of Dr. D is so unbelievably unwarranted i don't know where to start .. he has provided more MEANINGFUL help to more people on this board than anyone i can think of .. he knows FAR FAR more about this than 99.9% of people on any of the boards
show him a little more respect because that was honestly bull**** .. furthermore EVERYONE should get more respect than was shown to someone the board as a whole voted as a member of the month
08-29-2005, 11:19 PM
okay this thread is closed and for all the bashing involved.. it had better not begin in another thread period...
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