Superdrol Rebound Gyno

[Pav123]

Hi there

I’ve just started Superdrol but have since read many online threads about it causing Rebound Gyno. Is this as common as people make out? Is it something that can be prevented? Is it destined to happen even after a proper pct? I’m considering ending the cycle early if this is a common thing with sd as I just don’t think it’s worth it if that’s the case. Some help would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

[hairygrandpa]

Use nolva for PCT. Use an AI, like exemestane after PCT = no rebound.

 

[Pav123]

Use nolva for PCT. Use an AI, like exemestane after PCT = no rebound.

This is what I was planning:
Nolva 40/40/20/20
After PCT Aromasin @12.5mg EOD for 3-4 weeks.

Thoughts?

 

[hairygrandpa]

This is what I was planning:
Nolva 40/40/20/20
After PCT Aromasin @12.5mg EOD for 3-4 weeks.

Thoughts?

Curve the aromasin to e3d for 2 weeks, starting right after PCT.
I would go an additional week with nolva, if your cycle is longer than 4 weeks.

 

[Pav123]

Curve the aromasin to e3d for 2 weeks, starting right after PCT.
I would go an additional week with nolva.

So to be 100% clear are you saying:

40/40/20/20/20 and post pct aromasin @12.5 everyday for 2 weeks?

 

[hairygrandpa]

So to be 100% clear are you saying:

40/40/20/20/20 and post pct aromasin @12.5 everyday for 2 weeks?

40/40/20/20/20 and post pct aromasin @12.5 every 3 days for 2 weeks.

If your S-drol cycle is only 3-4 weeks, 4 weeks PCT should be enough -personally, I would do it anyway for 5 weeks, the nuts are in jeopardy, right?

 

[Pav123]

Ok thanks that’s really helpful.

 

[Toren]

At most.....

Nolva 20/20/10/10

Aromasin 6.25mg 3x per week for 4 weeks followed by 6.25mg 2x per week for 2 weeks.

Anything more than that is overkill for a short 3-4 week cycle. I certainly wouldn't double-dose Nolva for 5 weeks.

OP - you can get "rebound gyno" no matter what PCT protocol you choose, some are just much better than others at helping to lower the probability of it.

 

[Pav123]

Ah wow, this is a very different response lol. So difficult to know which way to go?! I will probably bridge the sd into epi so will that mean I increase the Nolva?

 

[Toren]

Ah wow, this is a very different response lol. So difficult to know which way to go?! I will probably bridge the sd into epi so will that mean I increase the Nolva?

Differing opinions is all. Many different ways to do things. Heavy SERM use is not consequence-free though.

Epi-what? Depending on how long you go, I might be tempted to add another week of Nolva @ 10mg ED.....

 

[Pav123]

Differing opinions is all. Many different ways to do things. Heavy-SERM use is not consequence-free though.

Epi-what? Depending on how long you go, I might be tempted to add another week of Nolva @ 10mg ED.....

Epistane. For an extra three weeks after sd....thoughts?

 

[Toren]

Epistane. For an extra three weeks after sd....thoughts?

Pointless in my opinion. You'll be stopping the epistane just as it's kicking in. Not to mention the added liver stress for minimal gains. If you have solid cycle support and are feeling fine, I would much prefer to add a week or two of Superdrol. Save the epistane for a future epi cycle.

How long is your planned Superdrol cycle as of right now?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Like Toren said: Many ways lead to Rome

Epistane has strong AI capabilities, be aware!

 

[Pav123]

Like Toren said: Many ways lead to Rome

Epistane has strong AI capabilities, be aware!

Well I’ve been on epi for two weeks one at 45 the other at 60 and have now added sd at 20 with the epi at 15. Was thinking to continue the epi at 15 whilst having sd at 20 for 2-3 weeks then finish with a final three weeks of epi at 60.

 

[Toren]

Well I’ve been on epi for two weeks one at 45 the other at 60 and have now added sd at 20 with the epi at 15. Was thinking to continue the epi at 15 whilst having sd at 20 for 2-3 weeks then finish with a final three weeks of epi at 60.

Yikes. So....

Epi: 45/60/15/15/15/60/60/60
SD: 00/00/20/20/20/00/00/00

That's 8 weeks of methyls for your liver. Got solid cycle support? Added Tudca? Personally, at this point I'd drop a week or two of the Epi and stay at 30mg while you are using Superdrol. This way you stay saturated with Epistane and finish strong. This was not the best planned out cycle in my opinion.

I would have preferred:

Epi: 30/30/45/45/60/60
SD: 20/20/20/00/00/00

or

Epi: 30/30/45/45/60/60
SD: 10/10/10/10

For PCT, you could add a week at 10mg of Nolva if you want, and also an extra week of aromasin at 6.25mg 2x.

 

[Toren]

Your cycle the way you planned it could work fine for you. I just worry about the hepatoxicity of running 2 methyls at once.

Interesting layout for orals...

 

[Pav123]

Thanks for this . Yeh I’ve got Tudca, double strength liv52, 5% cycle support, vitamins etc. Some have said running Dermacrine or 4AD whilst on this helps. But really it’s the Rebound Gyno stuff i’m most concerned about.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Like Toren said: Many ways lead to Rome

Epistane has strong AI capabilities, be aware!

It really does not lol, at all.

 

[hairygrandpa]

It really does not lol, at all.

Could you expand on this?
I based my post on personal experience, having fugged up both of my knees with Epistane. A simple google search reveals a myriad of posts about its estrogen lowering effect, like that:

"Epistane™ binds specifically to the 17ß-estradiol receptor protein in the target tissues. Because of its long lasting and strong effects on specific tissue, Epistane™ can significantly reduce and reverse the effects of gynocomastia because not only does Epistane™ specifically block estrogen in breast tissue but it induces an estrogen-depleted condition which leads to apoptosis or the death of the breast tissue cells. Studies show that small doses of the parent compound, Epitiostanol, at just 10-20mg/week showed a complete disappearance of the mass and pain in 25% of the male patients in the clinical trail, while the other 75% of the patients showed at least a 50% reduction in the mass and complete loss of pain in just 4-8 weeks."

My guess is you have better sources and new information, spew it out!

 

[hairygrandpa]

It really does not lol, at all.

Epistane is a methylated version of the controlled substance Epitiostanol (2a,3a-Epithio-5a-androstan-17a-ol), created in the 1960's and used as a treatment for breast cancer. Chemists added a methyl group to the compound to create the product known as Epistane. Epistane is a sulfur containing steroid which is known to have strong and long lasting anti-estrogenic activity as well as weak androgenic and mytropic activities.

Since it is anti-estrogenic, you can expect very dry gains from this compound. Epistane has low androgenic to anabolic activity, meaning it is much more anabolic then androgenic. Even though users will see dry gains on Epistane it does not mean that it would be any insufficient for a bulking cycle.

The occurrence rate of side effects while using Epistane/Havoc would be from mild to moderate, however they're user unique. Some users may not experience any side effects, while others will experience a combination of sides. It should be noted that the majority of these side effects are simply of inconvenience more so than a possible health affecting issue and for the most part can be resolved through simple supplementation, take sometime to read our article on combating side effects.

Decreased Libido/Sexual Function
Patterned Acne
Hair Thinning/Shedding (Especially those prone to hair loss)
Increased hair growth
Puffy / Sensitive Nipples
Sore/Aching Joints
Back Pumps (Dull pain in back after/during workouts)

Increased aggression, head aches, lethargy and various other sides can happen aren't common

It should be noted that due to estrogen regulation, sore/aching joints is typically common.

Source: http://prohormonedb.com/view-ingredients.asp?n=2,3a-epithio-17a-methyletioallo+cholan-17b-ol+(Epistane)&i=196

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Could you expand on this?
I based my post on personal experience, having fugged up both of my knees with Epistane. A simple google search reveals a myriad of posts about its estrogen lowering effect, like that:



My guess is you have better sources and new information, spew it out!

I have seen that it may act as an estrogen receptor antagonist in various tissues, I have never seen anything indicating it is an aromatase inhibitor. That quote you have is extrapolating from the non-methylated compound epitiostanol, not Epistane.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I have seen that it may act as an estrogen receptor antagonist in various tissues, I have never seen anything indicating it is an aromatase inhibitor. That quote you have is extrapolating from the non-methylated compound epitiostanol, not Epistane.

Its supposedly methylated Epitiostanol. If it is, the e2 lowering capabilities of Epitiostanol are well documented. If you only go by user accounts, it causes dry joints in many of them, that could be an indicator for estrogen lowering activity.
For me, it wrecked havoc (pun intended) on my knees.

 

[Toren]

Its supposedly methylated Epitiostanol. If it is, the e2 lowering capabilities of Epitiostanol are well documented. If you only go by user accounts, it causes dry joints in many of them, that could be an indicator for estrogen lowering activity.
For me, it wrecked havoc (pun intended) on my knees.

Any steroid that doesn't aromatize can and will lower estrogen over time. The longer you take it, and thus the less T your body produces, and in combination with taking a non-aromatizing steroid, you will over time see lower overall levels of estrogen. This "condition" can be refered to as estrogen-depleted and that makes the compound anti-estrogenic for that particuar reason.

Specific binding and antagonism of certain E receptors or receptor proteins only adds to it's anti-estrogenic nature and more specifically speaks to the literature that indicated it's ability to deplete certain breast tissue (and likely other tissue as well) of estrogen.

Not to speak for NoAddedHmones but he is suggesting to you that there is no evidence (that he has seen) that indicates Epistane (or Epitiostanol) specifically inhibits the aromatase enzyme. That is specifically what and AI does, it inhibits that particular enzyme by binding to it and rendering it inactive, either permanently or for a non-specific amount of time.

Saying that Epistane is an AI would be incorrect. Saying that it has been shown to be anti-estrogenic is accurate for atleast a couple of reasons.

Specific wording can be important.

 

[hairygrandpa]

-deleted-


edit:
My bad, with "AI capabilities" I wanted to point out the e2 lowering effect of Epistane.
Its not the same as an AI.

As you said....wording.

 

[hairygrandpa]

My point is, he should be careful. Using an AI (Aromatease inhibitor) together with Epistane (e2 lowering agent) could crash e2, with all the sides.

 

[Meatballs]

Differing opinions is all. Many different ways to do things. Heavy SERM use is not consequence-free though.

Epi-what? Depending on how long you go, I might be tempted to add another week of Nolva @ 10mg ED.....

What are the consequences of long serm use if you don’t mind me asking?

Some have toxicity, bone demineralization, and possible lipid value problems, but so do AAS. Is there anything else I’m missing that Serms can or could potentially cause, negatively?

 

[Wobmarvel]

Only other I know of is clomid effecting vision.