To HCG or to not HCG?

[DarkDescartes]

Firstly I’d like to start by posting my most current labs as of 10/30/2017:

Prolactin: 6.5 (2-18 ng/mL)
E2: 55 (< OR = 39 pg/mL) HIGH
Test: 783 (250-827 ng/dL)
FSH: 2.5 (1.6-8 mIU/mL)
LH: 5.0 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
TESTOSTERONE, FREE: 86.9 (46.0-224.0 pg/mL)
SHBG: 50 (10-50 nmol/L)

As you would see everything looks “good” however my SHBG is certainly eating up my free test and E2 is out of range.

I’m getting to the end of my rope.

In november I bought generic clomid from my friend which people have vouched for. I took the standard 50/50/25/25.

I don’t know if it’s actually bunk or not as strong etc, but I didn’t feel any changes.

I then got myself an order of Nolva, proviron and clomid from Greece and took that for a week to see if I’d start seeing changes and nothing.

Admittedly I’ve been inconsistent with dosages and what not and decided late December to stop everything, flush my system and take arimidex for awhile before I see the endocrinologist again.

I saw her yesterday (01/15/2018) and she ordered new blood work for me. I asked her about the possibility of taking HCG and she said in her studies there have been no discernable differences between taking HCG and clomid.

I also know that these doctors aren’t deep into the anabolic culture...

I took clomid with no effect, and even though my testosterone seems high, how do I know that the SHBG is just causing a facade since it technically holds my testosterone hostage.

Also my testicles are still atrophied; and I have hcg on deck...

So my question is:

1) Do I take HCG as monotherapy? Something like 500ius twice a week for 5 weeks to bring the boys back and then begin PCT?

2) do I hold off and start fresh with clomid, Nolva in high doses along with a little bit of proviron, be patient and see how I feel after 8+ weeks of PCT?

I will wait for my bloodwork to return to me which usually takes 2 weeks before it appears in the quest portal, but regardless I know my testicles are small.

What do you think gents?

 

[The Express 42]

I’d say definite no to the hcg. I would run low dose aromasin for a couple weeks. I think that’s all you need all your other levels look great

 

[DarkDescartes]

I’ve done liquid stane in the past from RUI and it did lower my estrogen to 27 at one point, however it didn’t change my condition much. It’s also possible I needed to lower it more.

I’m taking Adex and I’m on Week 3. My testies haven’t really changed but I partially feel like I have a slight increase in libido.

I still get no morning wood and erections still are weak.

I haven’t had any luck growing my testicles so far however, you don’t think HCG wouldn’t be beneficial?

My LH and FSH are low, but I guess I’ll have to wait for more bloodwork to see where I’m at currently.

You think I should go the clomid, Nolva, proviron and HCGenerate route?

 

[CatSnake]

what dose of A-dex are you taking?

I think the HCG could help your testicular volume more than anything else would, but I'm not certain it would help at this point.... however, it's worth a shot. I know you've tried a lot of stuff, and I think HCG along with A-dex might help your hormonal profile. it would be easy enough to transition from the HCG to clomid along with A-dex as well....

EDIT: a couple things....

do you take any SSRIs? any DHT blockers? acutane? does the rest of your bloodwork look good?


here's what I would do:

-continue the Arimidex, and adjust the dose based off your current bloodwork.
-take 500 IUs of HCG EOD for 2-3 weeks..... if that works, you should notice it pretty quick.
-take D-aspartic acid for the first 2 weeks with HCG at 3,000 mg/day. normally I'm not a big fan of DAA, but it might increase the effectiveness of how HCG works in the testes...
-since you're adding in DAA, you'll need a prophylactic dose of a dopamine agonist (prami, caber, etc). DAA can raise prolactin in some guys, and we don't what that to cause you a whole different set of issues here.
-transition to clomid after the HCG is done.... you don't really need a high dose... just something to get your HPTA recovered after the HCG (and the A-dex and dop agonist will help with that, too..)
-take vitamin D, if you're not already.
-take ZMA, if you're not already.

so, something like this:

Week 1-2
-Arimidex
-HCG-500 IU EOD
-DAA-3,000 mg/day
-prami-start at .1 mg and go up to .5 mg/night
-vit D
-ZMA

Week 3
-Arimidex
-HCG-500 IU EOD
-prami-up to .5 mg/night
-vit D
-ZMA

Week 4
-Arimidex
-clomid-25 mg EOD
-prami-taper down to your starting dose and finish it this week
-vit D
-ZMA

Week 5+
-Arimidex
-clomid-25 mg EOD
-vit D
-ZMA





.

 

[DarkDescartes]

I've been taking 1mg arimidex for about 3 weeks.

Currently waitng on blood work to see if LH, FSH and among other things improved because of Adex.

Also, why don't you think HCG would be beneficial at this point? Theoretically speaking, increasing my testicular volume and then transitioning to PCT should help much better at this point than anything else.

Unfamiliar with SSRIs so I assume that im not taking any, along with no other DHT blockers nor actuate either.

I've currently been taking 70mg of clomid, 20 mg of nolva, 75 mg of proviron and 12.5 mg aromasin per day.
Along with Vit D, HCGenerate and L-Arginine.

It's been a few days but I feel like this won't return my testies still because if clomid didn't work before, why would it now?

I'm certainly trying to be patient. I plan on visiting a few different Endos for different opinions and see if i can get HCG perscribed rather then use the one i have, why not try for pharma grade.

I was planning to dose HCG 2x week at 500iu each should i have to do it for myself.

Hopefully HCG works out.

 

[CatSnake]

I've been taking 1mg arimidex for about 3 weeks.

Currently waitng on blood work to see if LH, FSH and among other things improved because of Adex.

Also, why don't you think HCG would be beneficial at this point? Theoretically speaking, increasing my testicular volume and then transitioning to PCT should help much better at this point than anything else.

Unfamiliar with SSRIs so I assume that im not taking any, along with no other DHT blockers nor actuate either.

I've currently been taking 70mg of clomid, 20 mg of nolva, 75 mg of proviron and 12.5 mg aromasin per day.
Along with Vit D, HCGenerate and L-Arginine.

It's been a few days but I feel like this won't return my testies still because if clomid didn't work before, why would it now?

I'm certainly trying to be patient. I plan on visiting a few different Endos for different opinions and see if i can get HCG perscribed rather then use the one i have, why not try for pharma grade.

I was planning to dose HCG 2x week at 500iu each should i have to do it for myself.

Hopefully HCG works out.

well, I'm just not sure how much it will return the testicular volume.... it might be really effective, but it might not do much, either. you're right tho-it might work, and if it does, will work better then not doing that. I'm just not sure how much it'll help right now... it seems like it's easier to use it to maintain the volume then to bring it back.

I would stop the proviron for now.... that MIGHT be suppressive to the HPTA.

I'd also back down the SERM doses for now... maybe 25 mg of clomid and 10 mg of nolva.

I'll try to dig up some more info on HCG... you might be able to be really aggressive with your dosing, so I'll try to see if I can find some good protocols there.

FWIW, here's a HCG thread I started a while back:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/297449-info-hcg.html

 

[DarkDescartes]

Thank you brother, much appreciated.

So you think it’s 50/50. I’ve been reading a lot about HCG and I’ve read plenty recovered their testicular volume after using it. However everybody’s body is different after all.

And Proviron in PCT is also 50/50 as to whether it hurts HPTA or not.

My Oct 30th bloodwork was taken after having used proviron for a bit and it didn’t seem to hurt. I’ll also have to wait to see what my current bloods will be as well.

I’m thinking about just stopping the serms right now, wait 2 weeks for the clomid to flush out, then start to reconstitute HCG.

In my opinion, why not save clomid and Nolva and just use it after HCG.

I also really hate the Idea of surpressing HPTA which is why I was a bit hesitant on taking it, unfortunately it doesn’t seem that I have many other choices momentarily.

I’m sick of the anxiety, being nervous around girls and forcing myself to socialize. Not to mention that having a high hanging dick with small testies doesn’t do much for the ego either.

I’m gonna give it a shot, ideally I’d like to start HCG this week but I feel like I would need the clomid to leave my body first right?