What to do after pct to help maintain gains.

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  1. What to do after pct to help maintain gains.


    The intro says it all. Is there any supplementation or strategy for training to help keep or maintain the gains after pct?


  2. What was your cycle and PCT? I would recommend to eat at or above maintenance and consider adding in a natural test product. Using a product like Alphamax XT for 8 weeks to follow your PCT would be beneficial and helpful for getting your body back to it's correct baseline
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  3. In relation to training specifically Id read that increasing volume on cycle and then decreasing volume but increasing weight post cycle was the standard to maintain gains.......

    Logic being that you'll not be able to handle as much volume post but the increase weight will boost t and force the body to hold onto the newly gained muscle to handle the new stimulus.....

  4. Quote Originally Posted by john.patterson View Post
    What was your cycle and PCT? I would recommend to eat at or above maintenance and consider adding in a natural test product. Using a product like Alphamax XT for 8 weeks to follow your PCT would be beneficial and helpful for getting your body back to it's correct baseline
    I am currently still on my cycle I am just trying to get everything thing else line up.

    current cycle week 7 plan on just a 12 week run..
    test e week 1-12
    deca week 1-10
    hcg 300mcg 2 x weekly
    aromasin ed

    pct..
    clomid 50/50/25/25

    cortisol control supp

    also thinking of some kind of vitamin C supplement just not sure what to go with

    of course
    multi
    fish oil


    pretty basic.... what's your thoughts

    Also you mentions eating at or above maintenance. I have went from eating 1800 call up to 2800 to 3000 and I raise the calories about a 100 a week so I will be getting near 3500 near the end of the cycle.
    Should I maintain eating this amount of calories..

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Swindler View Post
    I am currently still on my cycle I am just trying to get everything thing else line up.

    current cycle week 7 plan on just a 12 week run..
    test e week 1-12
    deca week 1-10
    hcg 300mcg 2 x weekly
    aromasin ed

    pct..
    clomid 50/50/25/25

    cortisol control supp

    also thinking of some kind of vitamin C supplement just not sure what to go with

    of course
    multi
    fish oil


    pretty basic.... what's your thoughts

    Also you mentions eating at or above maintenance. I have went from eating 1800 call up to 2800 to 3000 and I raise the calories about a 100 a week so I will be getting near 3500 near the end of the cycle.
    Should I maintain eating this amount of calories..
    I would maintain eating above maintenance through PCT
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  6. Arachidonic acid in the form of SNS X GELS. It is a natty supplement that has been proven to promote strength and lean gains.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    [email protected] ons.com

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jgntyce View Post
    Arachidonic acid in the form of SNS X GELS. It is a natty supplement that has been proven to promote strength and lean gains.
    ok I will look into this... I ve heard people mentions these quite a bit but never looked at the profile though...

  8. MassMax XT would be worth looking into. If you go through the reviews, you'll see users reported a 5-7 pound weight gain in 8 weeks. That is great for a natty product. Additionally, body composition improved despite the increase in weight and strength went up pretty quickly. MassMax XT will increase hunger, which is great to help you eat post cycle to help you maintain that mass you put on while cycling.
    Performax Labs Product Specialist
    Follow My Journey: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/269588-antms-lean-bulk.html

  9. Another vote for Xgels, and it can be stacked with something like anabeta elite as well... the x gels will certainly help maintain strenght and pumps and the ABE can help with keeping hunger high, nutrient partiioning, and snergy with teh x gels as well.

    this is my standard pct/post pct natty stack.

    as for diet and training - diet you 100% want to keep cals at or above where they were on cycle, the reason being that if your body doesnt see enough cals to keep maintaing the new muscle, it simply wont. and you have to account for the fact that you body simply cannot process cals as effieciently off cycle so ahving more avialable gives you a better chance of having "enough".

    training for me alwys seems to be ebst when I simply stick to the same program I ran on cycle.my thought (and this is total me-science) is that whatever you did on cycle, thats the muscle/memory that you built, if you change exercises, reps, etc, that muscle will not have time to mature since you're changing the stimulus and therefore would be less likely to keep it. If you keep doing the same, the muscles are forced to stay at that level and will have a better chance of being maintained.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - db77 @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    In relation to training specifically Id read that increasing volume on cycle and then decreasing volume but increasing weight post cycle was the standard to maintain gains.......

    Logic being that you'll not be able to handle as much volume post but the increase weight will boost t and force the body to hold onto the newly gained muscle to handle the new stimulus.....
    That really doesnít make any sense tbh. Why would your body maintain the size it got to moving x amount of volume when you stop doing x amount of volume
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    My posts outside of OL threads are my opinion, don't take them as offensive!
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by NoAddedHmones View Post
    That really doesn’t make any sense tbh. Why would your body maintain the size it got to moving x amount of volume when you stop doing x amount of volume
    I believe the logic was (and tbh it made sense to me but I’m still learning) that during a cycle you can recover from more volume and longer training sessions much better than during pct. Therefore increasing volume over and above what a natty should do maximises the gains on cycle (and takes advantage of the increase in protein synthesis).

    However, in pct you no longer have that ability and long 2 hour sessions can create a catabolic state and spike cortisol. You won’t recover as quickly so in theory shouldn’t be able to hit the same volume.

    However, just lifting lighter or taking down the intensity would not give your body a reason to keep the muscle it’s built.

    Thus increasing the weight, but doing less sets and reps would still create the stimulus to maintain the muscle, it would help boost test and would enable a session to be completed under an hour to avoid the cortisol type issues.

    I’ll be starting pct in 4 weeks myself so keen to take any knowledge I can on this. The above did make sense to me but like I say I’m still learning......I also think that there is probably a individual element and what works for one may not work for someone else.....

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    I believe the logic was (and tbh it made sense to me but I’m still learning) that during a cycle you can recover from more volume and longer training sessions much better than during pct. Therefore increasing volume over and above what a natty should do maximises the gains on cycle (and takes advantage of the increase in protein synthesis).

    However, in pct you no longer have that ability and long 2 hour sessions can create a catabolic state and spike cortisol. You won’t recover as quickly so in theory shouldn’t be able to hit the same volume.

    However, just lifting lighter or taking down the intensity would not give your body a reason to keep the muscle it’s built.

    Thus increasing the weight, but doing less sets and reps would still create the stimulus to maintain the muscle, it would help boost test and would enable a session to be completed under an hour to avoid the cortisol type issues.

    I’ll be starting pct in 4 weeks myself so keen to take any knowledge I can on this. The above did make sense to me but like I say I’m still learning......I also think that there is probably a individual element and what works for one may not work for someone else.....
    I think your reasoning is half sound in that you need to keep forcing the muscle to "feel" the pressure to sustain its size; however, sheer weight is not the only factor when building muscle. You need volume, intensity, and weight to all be aligned properly to keep the stimulus consistent/progressive.

    That said, you obviously don't want to be in the gym for 2+hrs during pct either so I get that, but that would be why my siggestion would be to do a routine that allows you to hit a muscle multiple times a week vs just a bro split so that you can "stimulate but not annihilate" the muscle in shorter, targeted, lower daily but high weekly volume workouts.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - db77 @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Swindler View Post
    I am currently still on my cycle I am just trying to get everything thing else line up.

    current cycle week 7 plan on just a 12 week run..
    test e week 1-12
    deca week 1-10
    hcg 300mcg 2 x weekly
    aromasin ed

    pct..
    clomid 50/50/25/25

    cortisol control supp

    also thinking of some kind of vitamin C supplement just not sure what to go with

    of course
    multi
    fish oil


    pretty basic.... what's your thoughts

    Also you mentions eating at or above maintenance. I have went from eating 1800 call up to 2800 to 3000 and I raise the calories about a 100 a week so I will be getting near 3500 near the end of the cycle.
    Should I maintain eating this amount of calories..
    well, vitamin C can help control cortisol. 500-1,000 mg works pretty well.... I prefer it at night, as high doses of C make me a bit drowsy (presumably due to the drop in cortisol).

    I'd change your PCT, to 6-8 weeks of clomid at 25 mg/day.

    I'd also look into a dopamine agonist to manage prolactin, depending on your dose of Deca.


    as far as eating, I wouldn't necessarily eat much more than you currently are on cycle... it's pretty hard to get fat on cycle, but obviously pretty easy with normal hormonal levels.


    typically I'd suggest slightly reducing training volume, but try to maintain intensity with your training sessions.

    you're gonna lose a little bit of weight from muscle glycogen, water, etc. your goal here is to get your HPTA working right again, and hopefully maintain most of your gains.


    .

  14. Quote Originally Posted by CatSnake View Post
    well, vitamin C can help control cortisol. 500-1,000 mg works pretty well.... I prefer it at night, as high doses of C make me a bit drowsy (presumably due to the drop in cortisol).

    I'd change your PCT, to 6-8 weeks of clomid at 25 mg/day.

    I'd also look into a dopamine agonist to manage prolactin, depending on your dose of Deca.


    as far as eating, I wouldn't necessarily eat much more than you currently are on cycle... it's pretty hard to get fat on cycle, but obviously pretty easy with normal hormonal levels.


    typically I'd suggest slightly reducing training volume, but try to maintain intensity with your training sessions.

    you're gonna lose a little bit of weight from muscle glycogen, water, etc. your goal here is to get your HPTA working right again, and hopefully maintain most of your gains.


    .
    in the past when running a test cycle like 600mg a week I recover just fine a dosing clomid for 4 week and actually felt very good just after the second week why would you extend it 6-8 weeks just because of the deca?
    also with vitamin c is the something particular to look for in this kind of supplement like I was thinking something along the line of the Emergen-c stuff you can mix in water... or is there a better and more economical alternative?

  15. He is running HCG throughout so his recovery is going to be a breeze guys... his plumbing never completely went on hiatus. Recovery is going to be pretty easy on him. He is also controlling cortisol, so he has the hormones relatively in check.

    As far as dropping volume and increasing intensity in PCT, this is to keep or maintain myofibrular muscle size, not the volume of the muscle itself. EI, the heavier loads with less volume stimulate the thickening of the muscle fiber, As to where adding volume to the workout does the exact same thing to the muscle, it adds volume, aka size. YOu also gain contractile tissue with high volume too, but only when volume is high enough that the fatigue of the fibers is causing failure to some of the fibers.

    Certainly you will lose some "size" or volume after the cycle because you do not have super-physiological nutrient partitioning any longer so less glycogen will be stored in the muscle. Also with lower volume the muscle will decide it may not need as many mitochondria, and or fluid in the muscle cell. So you loose volume there, but as long as you do not lose the gained thickness in the actual muscle fiber then you have not lost your "gains".

    Glycogen related LBM is EASY to regain, and a week or two at higher volumes with higher carbs will swell the muscle right back up to the old higher volume. So if looking at the big picture, lowering volume is often necessary to help with maintaining the CNS post cycle. Since that is often a must, or best case scenario, you want to accommodate that reduction in volume by lifting heavier to recruit & contract more muscle fibers more quckly with less drain on the CNS. Basically the more muscle fibers fatigue and fail due to intensity, the more are recruited with less actual workload due to the increased intensity. So you work less, but harder for the same effect on the contractile tissue without the drain on the CNS of high volume training. Obviously volume must also be dropped in order to maintain the higher intensity loads as well. They just go hand in hand in that aspect. High volume and high intensity is a recipe for CNS degradation!

    Anyway the method is about preserving the size of the actual contractile tissue and not cell volume.

    Remember there are two types of growth, one is sarcoplasmic, (mitochondria, intracellular fluid, glycogen storage and the like). This is volume driven, and the other is myofibular growth / contractile tissue growth which is driven by the intensity of the contraction needed to move the weight.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Swindler View Post
    in the past when running a test cycle like 600mg a week I recover just fine a dosing clomid for 4 week and actually felt very good just after the second week why would you extend it 6-8 weeks just because of the deca?
    also with vitamin c is the something particular to look for in this kind of supplement like I was thinking something along the line of the Emergen-c stuff you can mix in water... or is there a better and more economical alternative?
    well, because 6-8 weeks is better. and higher doses lead to more side effects with clomid,. especially.

    and yeah.... Deca makes that worse.

    Info on SERMs

  17. Quote Originally Posted by CatSnake View Post
    well, because 6-8 weeks is better. and higher doses lead to more side effects with clomid,. especially.

    and yeah.... Deca makes that worse.

    Info on SERMs
    With his HCG use he should still have a pretty decent recovery, but yeah sometimes that deca can be a biatch! Definitely nothing wrong with a little longer and lower dosed PCT @ 25mg a day Clomid shouldn't really turn him into a bitchy crybaby either.

    One of the worst periods in my relationship with my wife was while running a 50/50/50/50 clomid PCT. I got so moody, emotional and outright aggressive she couldn't stand to be near me. At some point I got emotional and wrote an open letter to my family apologizing for being so much of an erratic a-hole... Clomid is a beast in that category.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  18. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    With his HCG use he should still have a pretty decent recovery, but yeah sometimes that deca can be a biatch! Definitely nothing wrong with a little longer and lower dosed PCT @ 25mg a day Clomid shouldn't really turn him into a bitchy crybaby either.

    One of the worst periods in my relationship with my wife was while running a 50/50/50/50 clomid PCT. I got so moody, emotional and outright aggressive she couldn't stand to be near me. At some point I got emotional and wrote an open letter to my family apologizing for being so much of an erratic a-hole... Clomid is a beast in that category.
    wow... clomid does seem to make me a little up and down... but all and all seems to treat me pretty good. last cycle I dosed it 50/25/25/25 everything seemed to go pretty well..... but I didn't run hcg during that cycle either...

  19. ^honestly, I've never heard of anybody having bad emotional sides when the dose is kept to 25 mg. 50 mg + seems to be where problems start.....

  20. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    With his HCG use he should still have a pretty decent recovery, but yeah sometimes that deca can be a biatch! Definitely nothing wrong with a little longer and lower dosed PCT @ 25mg a day Clomid shouldn't really turn him into a bitchy crybaby either.

    One of the worst periods in my relationship with my wife was while running a 50/50/50/50 clomid PCT. I got so moody, emotional and outright aggressive she couldn't stand to be near me. At some point I got emotional and wrote an open letter to my family apologizing for being so much of an erratic a-hole... Clomid is a beast in that category.
    Oh Jesus, I have my first pct coming up in December (yep, this genius lined up the emotional rollacoaster for that time of year) - have both clomid and nolva but was going to use the clomid at 50/25/25/12.5.......after reading this I’ve got images of me crying for subjecting a poor helpless turkey to a few hours in a baking hot hell lol

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    Oh Jesus, I have my first pct coming up in December (yep, this genius lined up the emotional rollacoaster for that time of year) - have both clomid and nolva but was going to use the clomid at 50/25/25/12.5.......after reading this Iíve got images of me crying for subjecting a poor helpless turkey to a few hours in a baking hot hell lol
    Just wait till all the Christmas music is going on, or all the Christmas Movies. Fun times

  22. Quote Originally Posted by DemntedCowboy View Post
    Just wait till all the Christmas music is going on, or all the Christmas Movies. Fun times
    Haha, I’m really not an emotional person normally at all so it’s going to look really weird. Women always say they want us to be more in touch with our feminine sides though......

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    Haha, I’m really not an emotional person normally at all so it’s going to look really weird. Women always say they want us to be more in touch with our feminine sides though......
    Well it is emotional in the way a female has a period which means you might actually lose your chit on someone! Sure I got emotional too, but it was more like I was ready to lash out and or whip some ass real quick and in a hurry like. Imagine a Man on a period and that is about what it was like. I am happy I am on TRT now and don't have to recover my HTPA!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  24. I remember the first time I took clomid..... I was literally so lost in my emotions. I kept my composure through it all but it literally made me depressed as [email protected]!! I would Bitch here and there about stupid sh1t and I remember it bugging my friends that were on cycle.

    They were a bit more aggressive and I was in a ponan state hahaha.

  25. My favorite supplement to run during/after PCT is X gels. I usually run them through PCT and then for 4-6 weeks after.

    Check out this thread for more info: The Arachidonic Acid Help Guide
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html
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