Used Ru58841 for MPB; need "PCT" to normalize?

[robshef]

I have read quite a bit online and on forums, but I need some help as I don't grasp everything and there is conflicting info.

I used RU58441 on my scalp to combat male pattern baldness. I've never used any AAS or gear; but I think my issues maybe would be corrected by something similar to PCT. RU is an anti-androgen that is supposed to remain local at the hair follicles and not go systematic. Pretty sure it went systematic. I realize it's a research chemical, and many wouldn't dream of using it, but I tried it.

I have low libido and mostly weak or spongy erections. My guess is this is related to too much prolactin and/or e2. Before I try anything I'm going to get some labs done. For someone to give me advice, what all do I need to include in the tests? Total test, free test, FSH, SHGB, e2, Prolactin - anything else? Since I quit the RU, I think that I have trouble putting on muscle from my workouts and I did put on some "spare tire" weight.

Any help or advice is appreciated.

 

[CatSnake]

I have read quite a bit online and on forums, but I need some help as I don't grasp everything and there is conflicting info.

I used RU58441 on my scalp to combat male pattern baldness. I've never used any AAS or gear; but I think my issues maybe would be corrected by something similar to PCT. RU is an anti-androgen that is supposed to remain local at the hair follicles and not go systematic. Pretty sure it went systematic. I realize it's a research chemical, and many wouldn't dream of using it, but I tried it.

I have low libido and mostly weak or spongy erections. My guess is this is related to too much prolactin and/or e2. Before I try anything I'm going to get some labs done. For someone to give me advice, what all do I need to include in the tests? Total test, free test, FSH, SHGB, e2, Prolactin - anything else? Since I quit the RU, I think that I have trouble putting on muscle from my workouts and I did put on some "spare tire" weight.

Any help or advice is appreciated.

I think the tests you have listed should be good. I've never heard of that product before.... I'll do some digging into it.

 

[robshef]

Thanks for the response. I know this isn't technically a PCT issue. But I thought someone on the forum may be able to offer some insight, since it may be somewhat similar to issues that arise during PCT from AAS. RU58441 is a specific androgen receptor antagonist. It is a drug originally investigated for it's potential to treat acne and later MPB. It was dropped during clinicals, I believe. Or during research. There's lots of people who have used it and posted results on MPB forums. It has to be sourced from research labs. It's not believed to go systematic when used topical, but I don't think that was the case with me. I did have some regrowth in thinning areas, but I obviously should have thought better from trying this. I used it for about 6 months and have not used in during the past 6 months. Anyway have my requisition for labs and will have blood drawn next week. Will post results when I have them back and go from there.

 

[robshef]

Had blood drawn yesterday, will post results when I have them.

 

[robshef]

Got my results already.

Result:: Ref Range
Serum Test 1065:: 264-916 ng/dl
LH 6.9:: 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 5.6:: 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Prolactin 9.5:: 4.0-15.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol 39.0:: 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[CatSnake]

Got my results already.

Result:: Ref Range
Serum Test 1065:: 264-916 ng/dl
LH 6.9:: 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL
FSH 5.6:: 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL
Prolactin 9.5:: 4.0-15.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol 39.0:: 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

Anyone have any thoughts?

well, test is good. surprisingly high, actually.

your E2 is a bit high, and would prolly be better in the range of 20-30, although I don't think 39 is horrible.

prolactin is a smidge high too, but also not out of range.

you could try a low dose AI to get a more optimal E2 level and see how that works.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288969-info-ais.html

 

[robshef]

Thanks for input catsnake....I was thinking about the same. I was surprised my total test was that high too, never had it tested before.

I'll look into arimidex...in the process or reading some of the links in your AI info post. Thinking I'd run it for 8 weeks and see how that makes me feel and also do some bloods at the end and check levels at that point.

 

[CatSnake]

Thanks for input catsnake....I was thinking about the same. I was surprised my total test was that high too, never had it tested before.

I'll look into arimidex...in the process or reading some of the links in your AI info post. Thinking I'd run it for 8 weeks and see how that makes me feel and also do some bloods at the end and check levels at that point.

I'll be honest-I doubt the E2 is the issue. It's easy to rule out, though...

Does Ru58841 actually block the androgen receptor? I wonder if that's the issue, or if it affects the activity at the androgen receptor site.... that might also explain your high testosterone, as it is left circulating instead of attaching to the AR....

are you taking ZMA or vitamin D? zinc, magnesium and D all help testosterone production, control E2 as well as promote healthy androgen receptors. another AR supplement is l-carnitine l-tartrate, which has been shown to increase AR density.

^might be worth looking into that stuff, as well.

 

[robshef]

I take GNC Vit D 5000IU most days. Not ZMA or l-carnitine. May be worth running those for a while before arimidex.

I never thought of the possibility of the receptors still being interfered with from the RU. It does make sense. I guess I don't know much on that topic - would they be able to shed the RU on their own, or with some help from ZMA and l-carnitine? Would it be possible for something to permanently interfere? There is quite a bit online on RU, here's an article I thought covered quite a bit about it.

I can't post links due to so few posts on this forum...but there's a site called hair loss talk in the treatments that I think has a pretty good explanation about what RU is and what it is supposed to do.

According to this explanation RU attaches to the androgen receptor to block DHT from attaching to it. The popular belief being that DHT causes androgenic alopecia when it attaches to androgen receptors in the scalp.

 

[Absent1]

I take GNC Vit D 5000IU most days. Not ZMA or l-carnitine. May be worth running those for a while before arimidex.

I never thought of the possibility of the receptors still being interfered with from the RU. It does make sense. I guess I don't know much on that topic - would they be able to shed the RU on their own, or with some help from ZMA and l-carnitine? Would it be possible for something to permanently interfere? There is quite a bit online on RU, here's an article I thought covered quite a bit about it.

I can't post links due to so few posts on this forum...but there's a site called hair loss talk in the treatments that I think has a pretty good explanation about what RU is and what it is supposed to do.

According to this explanation RU attaches to the androgen receptor to block DHT from attaching to it. The popular belief being that DHT causes androgenic alopecia when it attaches to androgen receptors in the scalp.

Late to the discussion, but I am interested in this compound as well, just as a safety measure when using DHT based AAS. However, based on your explanation, it seems like there would be no way to determine if your symptoms are due to the RU affecting areas beyond your scalp. It sounds like it would not impact hormone levels, even if you tested DHT directly, but only blocks the androgenic effects. Perhaps a PSA test would have helped? Just theorizing here, but since the two common areas that DHT impacts are prostate and hair, maybe an abnormally low level of PSA would imply the RU is affecting areas beyond the scalp?

 

[robshef]

I should have mentioned to begin with, but I have been taking Dutasteride the whole time too. Started with propecia, it quit working and switched to Dutasteride. The whole time I was using only one of those I had no issues with staying lean or sexual function. Only after adding the RU is where I began to experience problems.

Since I'm using Dut, that probably is keeping PSA low - and maybe that explains the high total test too. If it can't convert to DHT - that's making my test remain high. There's risks using all of this stuff. I tolerate propecia and Dut well, just didn't have the same luck with the RU.

 

[robshef]

I've had arimidex and caber for over 2 weeks now. Started .5mg caber twice a week and .25mg arimidex 3x a week. Haven't noticed any sides from either one. Still supplementing LCLT 1-2g twice a day, l-dopa twice a day. Libido is very slightly better, a little more noticeable on caber days. I have increased frequency, arimidex EOD and caber 3x a week. I'll see how this progresses.

 

[Sparta12]

I should have mentioned to begin with, but I have been taking Dutasteride the whole time too. Started with propecia, it quit working and switched to Dutasteride. The whole time I was using only one of those I had no issues with staying lean or sexual function. Only after adding the RU is where I began to experience problems.

Since I'm using Dut, that probably is keeping PSA low - and maybe that explains the high total test too. If it can't convert to DHT - that's making my test remain high. There's risks using all of this stuff. I tolerate propecia and Dut well, just didn't have the same luck with the RU.

Dut will be the one ****ing your dick up lol not RU

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Used Ru58841 for MPB; need "PCT" to normalize?

You really needed to get your dht levels tested. Im assuming your androgen/estrogen ratio is out of wack based on what you are experiencing. However only bloods will confirm.

 

[robshef]

I had been on finasteride for 3 years, no sides....then on dut for 3 years before starting RU. Only then did I have issues. Some have serious sides from fin and dut but I never did. I moved from fin to dut because the fin quit working. Dut helped me recover some of my losses but I wanted to step it up by adding RU.

Yea no dht numbers in my last bloods. I'm maintaining my hair on dut now. I kinda don't want dht...but would it be plausible if I have high Test, low dht that's causing my libido issue?

 

[robshef]

I had been on finasteride for 3 years, no sides....then on dut for 3 years before starting RU. Only then did I have issues. Some have serious sides from fin and dut but I never did. I moved from fin to dut because the fin quit working. Dut helped me recover some of my losses but I wanted to step it up by adding RU.

Yea no dht numbers in my last bloods. I'm maintaining my hair on dut now. I kinda don't want dht...but would it be plausible if I have high Test, low dht that's causing my libido issue?

Been using caber and arimidex for 7 weeks. They help, but I think I'd have to keep dosing them to maintain results. Have not gotten any more bloods yet. I plan to after 8 weeks to see how they compare to the first results. I notice the most libido improvement if I've taken arimidex and caber consecutive days. It's pretty close to normal but that will fade away.

 

[Dthcore92]

Been using caber and arimidex for 7 weeks. They help, but I think I'd have to keep dosing them to maintain results. Have not gotten any more bloods yet. I plan to after 8 weeks to see how they compare to the first results. I notice the most libido improvement if I've taken arimidex and caber consecutive days. It's pretty close to normal but that will fade away.

Any updates man?

 

[robshef]

Any updates man?

I had been holding off on an update....but I ran some more blood work in March and was diagnosed hypothyroid. Been on a 50 mcg dose of levothyroxine and have a follow up in 2 weeks. Within weeks most of my symptoms went away, dry skin and dandruff being the most noticeable. Libido improved but didn't go back to normal. I actually got a bottle of mtest and have been taking one cap before bed and I'm actually about to what I was libido-wise before all this started.
I've lost about 5 lbs and my body composition is much better now. Most of the weight I gained in mid section has disappeared. I have way more energy overall and notice in the gym I can get through much tougher.cardio and weight workouts.
I haven't retested my test, e2, prolactin, etc. I may do that with private mdlabs after my visit with my Endo.

 

[Dthcore]

I had been holding off on an update....but I ran some more blood work in March and was diagnosed hypothyroid. Been on a 50 mcg dose of levothyroxine and have a follow up in 2 weeks. Within weeks most of my symptoms went away, dry skin and dandruff being the most noticeable. Libido improved but didn't go back to normal. I actually got a bottle of mtest and have been taking one cap before bed and I'm actually about to what I was libido-wise before all this started.
I've lost about 5 lbs and my body composition is much better now. Most of the weight I gained in mid section has disappeared. I have way more energy overall and notice in the gym I can get through much tougher.cardio and weight workouts.
I haven't retested my test, e2, prolactin, etc. I may do that with private mdlabs after my visit with my Endo.

I’m so sorry to hear that man... do you think it was attributed from the ru or if it could have made it progress?

 

[robshef]

I'd hate to speculate on that, just so hard to say. There is some thyroid in my family. Could have been coincidental that it started about the time I began using RU. I'm gonna see what happens after I'm settled in with levothyroxine. My cholesterol went way up too, I hope that looks back to normal too.