PCT without a serm

[SquatsAndOats]

Ey guys, not ready to start anything yet as I just got back after a 3 month break from the gym do to injuries, but I have a problem. Every SERM I've run has given me trouble with gyno, wether it be pharma, RC on cycle, in Pct or off cycle completely or with AIs thrown in. Really makes it hard to complete a pct when if feels like your gyno is getting worse, and it very well could be. How can I PcT without a SERM?
I've thought that I could do Aromasin in pct with an OTC pct as aromasin controls estrogen and raises LH. Any other things I can do? I've thought of hcg but I already have a bit of gyno and it aromatizes like crazy.

 

[goodvibes]

You ran serms + ai before and got gyno? Now you want to run a pct without serms instead use otc pct??

 

[SquatsAndOats]

You ran serms + ai before and got gyno? Now you want to run a pct without serms instead use otc pct??

Sorry I guess I worded it a little weird. I did run a serm+AI pct and got gyno, but 3 months later I tried to get rid of it with letro and Nolva. While I was still taking letro I started the nolva before tapering down letro. I noticed pain and tenderness from the start of nolva until I stopped taking it. I tried to reverse it with Ralox 4 months after that. And I would notice that I get pain and tenderness when taking the ralox. I addend in low dose aromasin to see if it would help, it did not, even though I got some water loss and stuff joints. 5 months later I took ostarine. Started ralox+AI to reverse some pufienss and I notice pain that only went away if I stopped ralox. Took clomid for a month, and that month my nips were sore with aromasin.
I had bloods done 3 months after the first pct before I started letro saying my test was 1029 so I recovered fine. I just seem to get this weird side from SERMs. I have clomid on hand but I'm wondering how I can recover optimally from a cycle without it because all three SERMs have caused breast pain even when not taken in PCT.

 

[warbird01]

If you get gyno with a SERM+AI you are most likely gonna get gyno with an OTC pct as well.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

If you get gyno with a SERM+AI you are most likely gonna get gyno with an OTC pct as well.

So what do you suppose? I have clomid, but it always seems to make my nipples puffy and ache even when not in pct

 

[warbird01]

So what do you suppose? I have clomid, but it always seems to make my nipples puffy and ache even when not in pct

Honestly it just sounds like you aren't destined to run any hormonal products. Your body seems very sensitive to estrongen changes. I would go with a stack like x gels+ABE or something like that.

Have you ever run an AI like erase or inhibit e stand alone?

 

[nbshazeezee]

DO you develop lumps or do they just get puffy bro?

And did you have like puberty gyno before you started anabolics? How many cycles have you run

What is your dosing protocol On you SERMS.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

DO you develop lumps or do they just get puffy bro? And did you have like puberty gyno before you started anabolics? How many cycles have you run What is your dosing protocol On you SERMS.

Hard to tell if I get lumps or not bet they definitely hurt and get puffy. I've run one test cycle and pct'd with hcg then clomid and aromasin at 50mf/25mg ED respectively. I didn't taper off the clomid though and my BF got a little high. I'm not surprised by all that, but I am surprised that when ive taken SERMs off cycle that my nipples get puffy and sensitive

 

[SquatsAndOats]

Honestly it just sounds like you aren't destined to run any hormonal products. Your body seems very sensitive to estrongen changes. I would go with a stack like x gels+ABE or something like that. Have you ever run an AI like erase or inhibit e stand alone?

well that blows considering I have like $500 In supps laying around. I've run formestane alone and aromasin alone liked both. I know One of Ralox's side effects is breast pain, albeit a rare one, but I'm just worried about clomid and nolva. I've never run Torem though.

 

[nbshazeezee]

well that blows considering I have like $500 In supps laying around. I've run formestane alone and aromasin alone liked both. I know One of Ralox's side effects is breast pain, albeit a rare one, but I'm just worried about clomid and nolva. I've never run Torem though.

I was just about to say totem


But when I finish a cycle, my nips were puffy the first week so I upped the nolva actually and few days of that and aromasin and arimistane. They were fine and have been fine the duration of lct thus far

 

[SquatsAndOats]

I was just about to say totem But when I finish a cycle, my nips were puffy the first week so I upped the nolva actually and few days of that and aromasin and arimistane. They were fine and have been fine the duration of lct thus far

I honestly think it is just a temporary thing, as I've run Ralox for ~8 weeks off cycle and it made them hurt and get puffy, but the puffienss went down afterward. Part of my problem is when I first ran SERMs I wasn't aware that you could get estro rebound from them. What I'm gonna do is research Torems side effect profile to see if it has that weird side like Ralox, then when I decide to cycle I'll have either that or clomid and pharma Asin and OTC pct and see how it goes.

 

[nbshazeezee]

Yeah man blast some torem maybe rlox and a solid AI. See how that goes. Honestly I think youl be fine. If not then c'est la vie

 

[booneman77]

have you looked into prolactin control? that can cause some of the same sides as estro but nothing you have taken would help combat this.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

have you looked into prolactin control? that can cause some of the same sides as estro but nothing you have taken would help combat this.

Yea, and I've taken prami while taking SERMs before too. I could always take it in pct, for the GH benefits as well.

 

[Blergs]

A SERM is not going to give you gyno, use the serm in PCT and AI for on cycle and a SERM for gyno removal ( not letro) and look for your issue else were IMO

 

[SquatsAndOats]

A SERM is not going to give you gyno, use the serm in PCT and AI for on cycle and a SERM for gyno removal ( not letro) and look for your issue else were IMO

Uh thanks bro. What do you mean look for my issue elsewhere?

 

[nbshazeezee]

Uh thanks bro. What do you mean look for my issue elsewhere?

something else you are doing may be the reason for the gyno, not the SERM.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

something else you are doing may be the reason for the gyno, not the SERM.

I could see that in PCT cause I gained a lot of bodyfat, but what I don't get is how months later u could get sides like that off cycle. I can't even run Ralox alone or with AIs off cycle cause of the sides