Epistrong pct am I screwed?

Longhorn297

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Took epistane
1-25 30mg/day
26-37 45mg/ day

My research subjects are currently taking torem with following dosing protocol 120/90/60/60/30 from a sponsor on many boards. Additionally taking pes erase 0/2/2/2/1/1On another forum there was recently post of bad bloods post cycle and many believed research subjects recieved bad batch. This is my first prohormone cycle and got bloods 3 days into pct and will be getting them weekly through pct because im very paranoid. Following are my results from Wed 3 days after last epistrong dose and 3 after 3 days torem at 120/day. My levels are very low which has me panicing my doc seems to think i will rebound "your tsh levels show your pituitary is still functioning so you will recover in 3-5 months but i want to do weekly blood draws. If you experience tenderness in nipples come in immediately and we will begin tamox regimine. In meantime side effects are worse than positives"

Symptoms
Lethargy
Low sex drive
Low ejaculate volume but no ED
Thought i felt tenderness in nips but i think its paranoia doc felt area said no signs
Balls 60-70% of normal size and arent hanging free imagine halfway between full hang and when youre cold

Blood taken at noon
Blood work 3-5-14 3 days into pct reference range in parenthesis:
Lh: <.07 miu/ml (1-9)
Fsh: <.3miu/ml (1.5-14)
Tt: <10ng/dl
Ft: 0.0 (6-27)
Shbg: 6.43nmol/l. (13-71)
Estrodiol: 18pg/ml (up to 56pg/ml for males)

How effed am i? Will i ever recover? How much can i expect these levels to change after 10 days to know if research chem is bunk?

Could low reading be epistrong still clearing system? My base line total test was 800+ in november 2013

Next blood draw is 3-12-14 at 8am

Please help! And im on phone so forgive misspellings
 
g0hardorgohom

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Dude... You got bloods done 3 days after your cycle. Wait one months after you're finished with your PCT and bloods will look totally different.
 

Longhorn297

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Dude... You got bloods done 3 days after your cycle. Wait one months after you're finished with your PCT and bloods will look totally different.
Trust me I 100% understand but my doctor handcuffs me to regular bloodwork and physicals by refusing my other medicines refills. He knows eveything but torem. He isnt going to put it on med record reason just symptoms

Edit: he says hes treated plenty of roud users and he himself competes in powerlifting and would give me tamox if symptoms of gyno appeared but id rather take a faster approach to normal. He wants to take wait and see approach

I also was not expecting to be shutdown that hard from a "mild" prohormone
 

Thatguy_603

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I also was not expecting to be shutdown that hard from a "mild" prohormone
dude u took a steroid what did u expect? If u did ur research u would of expected to be shut down, Mild or not. Lol bloods should be done after pct. After u have completed 3 weeks of pct start the erase and run for 3-4 weeks to ovoid rebound. U will be fine.
 
warbird01

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lol why would you get bloods 3 days after you cycle? What were you expecting to see?

And epi is not a "mild" steroid. It might be mild as far as sides, but not as far as shut down goes.
 
harbonah

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If there is a chance it was a bad batch order now from another site asap get something common like nolva and dose normal along with your torem better safe then sorry
 

Longhorn297

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lol why would you get bloods 3 days after you cycle? What were you expecting to see?

And epi is not a "mild" steroid. It might be mild as far as sides, but not as far as shut down goes.
I know 3 day bloods arent ideal it was part of regular physical to keep him prescribing adderall and ambien. Im extremely adhd and require stim base meds that also cause insomnia. A great combo.

Is this amt of shutdown normal? I guess i was expecting my TT to be like100-300 range since my baseline is over 800. It freaked me the f out when i saw those results. How soon into pct is do test, lh, fdh make noticeable improvements? I reordered nolva from different site with expedited delivery and got otc pct nolvadern xt til it comes in tues or wed which is test-estro-cortisol control.
 
harbonah

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I know 3 day bloods arent ideal it was part of regular physical to keep him prescribing adderall and ambien. Im extremely adhd and require stim base meds that also cause insomnia. A great combo.

Is this amt of shutdown normal? I guess i was expecting my TT to be like100-300 range since my baseline is over 800. It freaked me the f out when i saw those results. How soon into pct is do test, lh, fdh make noticeable improvements? I reordered nolva from different site with expedited delivery and got otc pct nolvadern xt til it comes in tues or wed which is test-estro-cortisol control.

I can understand that when a lot of guys think epistane is a mild starter hormone ...lol reality is it will shut you down just like any effective steroid will.

Very odd for him to require bloods that often I have scripts for Adderall and Ritalin I dodge the ambien though given some of the health scares related to it. I have just as much success with melatonin and diphenhydramine hcl and then change out for phenibut. Tried the celtic dreams sup but the damn spray broke like 2 days in....
 

Longhorn297

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Random but does return of morning wood and vast increase in boredom boners (random) a positive sign of recovery? Ive maintained sexual function the whole time but wasnt gettin unsolicited randos til past two days or so
 

rphash49

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You should know pretty quick from my experience. Even on the harshest cycles torem gives me drastic improvement in libido, sperm load, ball size etc in two weeks.

I would still go ahead and purchase from another company right away. If After two weeks you have little or no improvement switch it out.
 

Longhorn297

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Would morning wood, balls hanging normal level again although not quite as full, and loads slowing returning to normal size be good evidence?
 

rphash49

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Would morning wood, balls hanging normal level again although not quite as full, and loads slowing returning to normal size be good evidence?
Yes. Obviously still want to get bloods again down the road but yes those are signs of recovery.
 

Longhorn297

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Doctor has me scheduled for bloods again tomorrow morning hopefully there will be improvement. If there is and doc is happy ill have them done again in 8 weeks to see if I returned to baseline
 

Longhorn297

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Update
Bloods taken 10 days after last dose reference range in parenthesis
Lh .64 (1-9)
Fsh <.3 (1.5-14)
Total T 12 (241-827)
Free T .4 (6-27)
Prolactin 8.79 (3-30)
E2 21 (up to 56)
Doc prescribed clomid 50mg for 30 days. I feel like this is not meaningful improvement and my torem was prob bunk. Good news is pharm grade clomid for 30 days. Opinions??

My liver values ast down 6 pts to 59 (5-35)from last test. Ast up 16 pts to 87 (7-56). What could cause this the torem? I havent drank at all so i would have assumed itd go down with time not up.
 
harbonah

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Update
Bloods taken 10 days after last dose reference range in parenthesis
Lh .64 (1-9)
Fsh <.3 (1.5-14)
Total T 12 (241-827)
Free T .4 (6-27)
Prolactin 8.79 (3-30)
E2 21 (up to 56)
Doc prescribed clomid 50mg for 30 days. I feel like this is not meaningful improvement and my torem was prob bunk. Good news is pharm grade clomid for 30 days. Opinions??

My liver values ast down 6 pts to 59 (5-35)from last test. Ast up 16 pts to 87 (7-56). What could cause this the torem? I havent drank at all so i would have assumed itd go down with time not up.
Toss the torem my guess it was bunk and who knows what was in that vial.
 

Longhorn297

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Thats pretty lame a sponsor is selling bunk torem
 
GreenEarth

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I know 3 day bloods arent ideal it was part of regular physical to keep him prescribing adderall and ambien. Im extremely adhd and require stim base meds that also cause insomnia. A great combo.
What was your BP like while on adderall and epi?
 
EatMoar

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You should know pretty quick from my experience. Even on the harshest cycles torem gives me drastic improvement in libido, sperm load, ball size etc in two weeks. I would still go ahead and purchase from another company right away. If After two weeks you have little or no improvement switch it out.
Using it as my next serm for sure.
 
EatMoar

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Wow total T was 12.... That really blows dude you must've felt like complete *******.
 

Longhorn297

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Wow total T was 12.... That really blows dude you must've felt like complete *******.
I agree. Ive posted on few other boards and consensus with my baseline TT of 800+ epistane wouldnt have dropped me to 0 in five weeks at those doeses. Seems like epistrong was not epistane. Been on Prescription clomid 50mg/daily for 5 days now. The boys are back to normal size. But my libido is non existant. Still making gains ij gym. Set Bench pr (240lb 3 sets of 10) this week and weighted pullups (bw+60 3 sets 8). I also performed my first muscle up. Not into xfit but pretty cool display of strength imo
 
EatMoar

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I agree. Ive posted on few other boards and consensus with my baseline TT of 800+ epistane wouldnt have dropped me to 0 in five weeks at those doeses. Seems like epistrong was not epistane. Been on Prescription clomid 50mg/daily for 5 days now. The boys are back to normal size. But my libido is non existant. Still making gains ij gym. Set Bench pr (240lb 3 sets of 10) this week and weighted pullups (bw+60 3 sets 8). I also performed my first muscle up. Not into xfit but pretty cool display of strength imo
I wouldn't buy anything from mr supps I heard they were sketchy. Of course I ran their helladrol before knowing this and all was fine thank god. Stick to known sources next time.
 
g0hardorgohom

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I wouldn't buy anything from mr supps I heard they were sketchy. Of course I ran their helladrol before knowing this and all was fine thank god. Stick to known sources next time.
I have to agree. There is a reason why they don't advertise on other boards than their own...

They used to sponsor here few years ago and yesterday one of their reps started to advertise their topical DHEA here (100 bucks for a bottle, lol)... Thread was deleted very soon.
 
EatMoar

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I have to agree. There is a reason why they don't advertise on other boards than their own...

They used to sponsor here few years ago and yesterday one of their reps started to advertise their topical DHEA here (100 bucks for a bottle, lol)... Thread was deleted very soon.
just use some olympus labs :) , btw my cylce has changed bud! ill let you know the details via pm later on.
 
g0hardorgohom

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just use some olympus labs :) , btw my cylce has changed bud! ill let you know the details via pm later on.
Interested to hear what you're planning. My inbox is always open for you :D
 
GreenEarth

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Hmm I didn't know the opinion of MRSupps had changed that much...1.5-2 years ago people absolutely loved forma stanzol, and I remember beastdrol was probably one of the most popular superdrol clones out there. Same with katana and hella, really popular in the past. When did their decline in quality begin?
 
g0hardorgohom

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Hmm I didn't know the opinion of MRSupps had changed that much...1.5-2 years ago people absolutely loved forma stanzol, and I remember beastdrol was probably one of the most popular superdrol clones out there. Same with katana and hella, really popular in the past. When did their decline in quality begin?
There are several reasons but you can do your own decision.

I don't like the fact that they advertised mentdione as 19-nordiol.

I also don't like their stacks - stacking several methylated compounds is just stupid.

That said, I did a successfull cycle with their Helladrol two years ago. I don't know anything about quality of their new products so I can't really say anything about it. I just know that I'd much rather use reputable brands like LGI, Ironflex, Celtic Labs, Blackstone Labs, Ironmag Labs or the one in my sig.
 

Longhorn297

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There are several reasons but you can do your own decision.

I don't like the fact that they advertised mentdione as 19-nordiol.

I also don't like their stacks - stacking several methylated compounds is just stupid.

That said, I did a successfull cycle with their Helladrol two years ago. I don't know anything about quality of their new products so I can't really say anything about it. I just know that I'd much rather use reputable brands like LGI, Ironflex, Celtic Labs, Blackstone Labs, Ironmag Labs or the one in my sig.
Well theyre epistrong was unlikely epistane. I compared my bloodwork to those who ran similiar or stronger doses than mine. Change from baseline to end of cycle bloods was much less that what i experienced.

Anyways 7 days rx clomid from dr
Lh 4.6 (1-9)
Fsh 5.1 (1.5-14)
TT 402 (241-827)
FT 12 (6-27)
E2 28(up to 56)

Definitely feel better but back to normal. I desperately want to get back to my baseline TT of 800+
 
OnionKnight

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Well theyre epistrong was unlikely epistane. I compared my bloodwork to those who ran similiar or stronger doses than mine. Change from baseline to end of cycle bloods was much less that what i experienced.

Anyways 7 days rx clomid from dr
Lh 4.6 (1-9)
Fsh 5.1 (1.5-14)
TT 402 (241-827)
FT 12 (6-27)
E2 28(up to 56)

Definitely feel better but back to normal. I desperately want to get back to my baseline TT of 800+
You say that like epistane effects everyone exactly the same when it in fact does not. That's poor evidence to support your claim about . There are a bunch of logs showing people get shutdown from epi just like you did. That's why people here will warn everyone that epistane is not as mild as believed

I don't support MR or needto, but I do believe helladrol and epistrong are good products. They might have the most annoying business ethics ever, but they've been around a long time

To gohard. They don't sponsor anywhere because they are heavily affiliated with needto. Needto does all the repping for them. LGI doesn't sponsor anywhere but their board either, but we all know how badass that line is. Same with Celtic labs
 
g0hardorgohom

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You say that like epistane effects everyone exactly the same when it in fact does not. That's poor evidence to support your claim about . There are a bunch of logs showing people get shutdown from epi just like you did. That's why people here will warn everyone that epistane is not as mild as believed

I don't support MR or needto, but I do believe helladrol and epistrong are good products. They might have the most annoying business ethics ever, but they've been around a long time

To gohard. They don't sponsor anywhere because they are heavily affiliated with needto. Needto does all the repping for them. LGI doesn't sponsor anywhere but their board either, but we all know how badass that line is. Same with Celtic labs
Yeah.

Celtic Labs sponsors here by the way.

And I have my reasons to believe that LGI will come to AM really soon too.
 
OnionKnight

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Holy craps youre right Celtic is here. Well they need a stronger presence lol

I saw the post from the "lgi rep" yesterday too. Helpfully they make it over here, theyre my old faithful
 
g0hardorgohom

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Holy craps youre right Celtic is here. Well they need a stronger presence lol

I saw the post from the "lgi rep" yesterday too. Helpfully they make it over here, theyre my old faithful
Yeah, Celtic Labs seems to be focusing mostly on PHF. And they have so much other things going on than just designer orals.

LGI is def a good company. I don't know what post you're talking about though... Wasn't aware that they already got in here :O
 

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