First PH cycle Epistane help with pct

  1. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    First PH cycle Epistane help with pct


    Hey guys I'm new around here and new to the ph world. I'm 21 years old, 6'0" 186 pounds around 10-11% body fat. I have been lifting for years and I am curious to see how this stuff will work on me. I plan on starting my cycle on August 4th just over 2 weeks from now. I am very excited but also nervous as to the side effects and I want to make sure I'm doing everything right. I've been doing a ton of research but there's still things that people say that conflict that have me confused. Anyways, this is what I am thinking...

    Epistane 4 weeks : 20/30/30/40?
    OR
    Epistane 5 weeks : 20/30/30/30/40?
    Cycle Assist
    Omega-3
    Joint supplement - any recommendations?
    Multivitamin

    My PCT I am planning on buying Tamoxifen citrate (liquid)...has anyone had experience with the liquid? btw I am not starting the cycle until I have this.
    I planned on doing 40/40/20/20
    Is that enough for a PCT or do I need to add a test booster or AI? If so can someone name one?
    I plan on taking creatine after as well
    Do I need to continue the cycle assist during my PCT too?

    Thanks

  2. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    6 weeks on the episode would be the best and start at 30 not 20
    No reason to go 40 on the Nova 20/20/10/10 would be good
    Do you need a test booster? Not necessarily but its helpful. Yes you need a ai in pct like erase
    Start in 3rd week of pct and run for 4 weeks like this
    Nova
    20/20/10/10
    Erase
    00/00/03/03/02/01
    And for a test booster DAA is a good choice 3g through the whole pct... I'm sure more will chime in with more options
    Why not zoidberg?
  3. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    Thanks for the input it's really helpful. So if I do 6 weeks it would look like 30/30/30/40/40/40? would you recommend going to 50 for weeks 5 and 6? this is my first cycle so I don't want to go overkill but I do want to see some good results.
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    For a first I wouldn't go past 40 but you can try it for a few days just to experiment and if the sides don't get unbearable then I don't see why not, just listen to your body... I never have though
    And you can take creatine during your cycle as well
    Why not zoidberg?
  5. Professional Member
    warbird01's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  224 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,489
    Rep Power
    612737
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    54.6%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Looks good. DOn't think you really need a joint supp, unless you already have joint problems.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html
  6. Senior Member
    rphash49's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    118671
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    88.8%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post
    6 weeks on the episode would be the best and start at 30 not 20
    No reason to go 40 on the Nova 20/20/10/10 would be good
    Do you need a test booster? Not necessarily but its helpful. Yes you need a ai in pct like erase
    Start in 3rd week of pct and run for 4 weeks like this
    Nova
    20/20/10/10
    Erase
    00/00/03/03/02/01
    And for a test booster DAA is a good choice 3g through the whole pct... I'm sure more will chime in with more options
    ^this.

    Nova liquid is fine. I prefer torem. For me torem works quicker with zero sides but everyone is different.

    I use a cissus supplement for joint support. Supercissus is a popular one that has worked well for me in the past.
  7. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    sounds good. I am taking all your advice and i have bought those things you guys have recommended. Thanks for the help. I am going to make a post logging my cycle and everything with blood work include and my gains and what not.
  8. Professional Member
    warbird01's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  224 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,489
    Rep Power
    612737
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    54.6%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Good job on the blood work. More people should do this.

    Good luck!
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-GELS THE Prohormone alternative!
    anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/246394-arachidonic-acid-help.html
  9. New Member
    Aritch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    23
    Rep Power
    3417
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    58.26%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    I just finished a similar cycle but I added P-Stanz on top of 30mg of Epistane. Gains were good and moderately keepable. Gained 17 lbs and lost 6-7lbs once pct was finished up. My recommendation is to get blood work done, google anabolicminds cheap blood work. It tells you to use privatemdlabs.com and choose the female hormone panel. This is great, tells you everything but lipids. I would get blood drawn before the cycle for a baseline, after you finish the epistane and start pct, and then one once its all said and done. If you can't afford the bloods don't bother doing a cycle, you will have a hell of a time getting you hormones back to normal by guessing. If you don't get hormones back to normal you can kiss those gains goodbye. It will cost $150 for all three tests.

    On top of the bloods I would recommend getting a quality Co-Q10 supplement. I recommend Jarrow Q-absorb or QH-absorb, the latter is the better of the two. Run this at 100-200mg daily. In addition to the Omega 3's Co-Q10 is to protect your heart. PH's will mess up your HDL/LDL/VLDL's which will lead to cardiac damage. Additionally I would throw in Antaeus Labs Aegis, this is for liver protection since cycle assist is only slightly helpful to prevent liver damage. Aegis is TUDCA with Phosphotidlecholine (SP?) added in http://www.antaeuslabs.com/aegis.html . Run the TUDCA at 250mg 2x per day. TUDCA is the best form of liver protection. Also just know that even with liver sups you WILL get liver damage, your AST/ALT will rise outside of the allowable range after 4 to 6 weeks of cycling PH's. It will probably take another month or so to return to normal. If you allow your values to get to far out of wack you can cause permanent liver damage. Yes everyone says your liver will repair itself but you will have scar tissue which will inhibit proper function.

    So this is my recommendation for PCT keep the nolva at either 20/20/10/10 or 40/20/10/10. I think which you use depends on what your bloods look like at week 4/5/6 depending on when you stop the epistane. If your test is super low and estrogen is high I would consider running the second option and taking and take Exemestane/Aromasin. This is the only AI you can use with nolva and it is the best in my opinion. Exemestane info: http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/aro...ane-explained/ . It won't totally crush your estrogen like others will. I think exemestane should be used if you estrogen levels are higher than 35pg/ml. Running 25mg of exemestane ED will drop this down to ~20 pg/ml which is normal for most men, it will also boost Test and IGF-1 while decreasing SBHG which lowers free test. Another thing to look at is DAA dosed at 3mg per day which seems helpful. Look into Ostarine http://www.steroidology.com/forum/pr...rful-sarm.html I ran this will decent results but it is kinda expensive. Best for the price is ostabol by celtic labs.

    During PCT you will lose a lot of mass since you body will dump water. Typically for me I retain my strength but deflate a lot. This cycle I lost 6-7lbs pct, about 1/2' off the arms to give you and idea. I did however retain all of the strength gains. Also be very careful what you eat during PCT since you are in a state where you will put fat on very easily, I recommend a low GI diet but most of use do that anyway.

    Bottom line, get blood work done. Use your levels to see if you need to control estrogen during pct with exemestane/aromasin or if you are fine with just nolvadex. Other supps like DAA are helpful if you want to try them. Get some real liver protection by using TUDCA.
  10. New Member
    Aritch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    23
    Rep Power
    3417
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    58.26%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    For TUDCA info and liver protection read this. It is a must read.

    http://antaeuslabs.blogspot.com/2011...f-17a.html?m=1

    Personally, I think people blow off the liver damage that occurs with 17-aa steroids like epistane and the others because they take a liver sup. Just know that you will harm your liver to make muscle gains and if you don't mind this then a cycle is right for you.
  11. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    Wow that's a lot of information lol thanks. I actually have a close friend whose dad does blood work for a living so I get my blood drawn and tested for free... Good to have connections lol but yea I already have had it taken and I'm gonna do it after my cycle 1st day of pct and after pct as well.
  12. New Member
    Aritch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    23
    Rep Power
    3417
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    58.26%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    make sure you take the blood after the nolva has cleared your system so you get a good reading. also if you can make sure the blood work doesn't go on any record, it could cause issues with insurance etc later on.
  13. New Member
    no reason's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    406
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    39.92%

    run your nolva at 40/40/20/20 this is why

    SOME RESEARCH CHEM NOLVA INFO true twenty means that there is 30.4 of tamoxifen citrate per ml. which would give you an actual 20mg of nolva per ml.

    20mgs of research chem liquid nolva isnt equal to 20mgs of real "nolvadex" real pharm grade(tablets) nolvadex has more done to it that makes it more potent.... this is why research chem nolva should be dosed at 30%-50% more.

    true twenty means that there is 30.4 of tamoxifen citrate per ml. which would give you an actual 20mg of nolva per ml. Alot of places dont do it like this. When they say 20mg/ml,they dont consider the carrier molecule with it

    It depends were you got your tamoxifen citrate. Some research chemicals companies adjust the weight of citrate but not all.

    20 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate liquid approx. equals only 13.33 mg Nolvadex. i bet alot of you didnt know this and have been under-dosing...now you know.

    so if you dont have true twenty nolva and you are not sure if the company you got iT from adjusts the weight then make sure you dose it at 1.5 ml that will give you 19.995 mgs of nolva which is close to 20mgs.
  14. Senior Member
    rphash49's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    118671
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    88.8%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by no reason View Post
    run your nolva at 40/40/20/20 this is why

    SOME RESEARCH CHEM NOLVA INFO true twenty means that there is 30.4 of tamoxifen citrate per ml. which would give you an actual 20mg of nolva per ml.

    20mgs of research chem liquid nolva isnt equal to 20mgs of real "nolvadex" real pharm grade(tablets) nolvadex has more done to it that makes it more potent.... this is why research chem nolva should be dosed at 30%-50% more.

    true twenty means that there is 30.4 of tamoxifen citrate per ml. which would give you an actual 20mg of nolva per ml. Alot of places dont do it like this. When they say 20mg/ml,they dont consider the carrier molecule with it

    It depends were you got your tamoxifen citrate. Some research chemicals companies adjust the weight of citrate but not all.

    20 mg of Tamoxifen Citrate liquid approx. equals only 13.33 mg Nolvadex. i bet alot of you didnt know this and have been under-dosing...now you know.

    so if you dont have true twenty nolva and you are not sure if the company you got iT from adjusts the weight then make sure you dose it at 1.5 ml that will give you 19.995 mgs of nolva which is close to 20mgs.
    Yeah research chem can be a little concerning at times. Last time I got research chem torem it looked like a snow globe in the tube. It did the trick with basic doses tho 120,90,60,etc. My balls were 3 times normal size in dayz!!!!!!
  15. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    Is that a definite fact? What if it's actually the right dosage/potency and I'm actually taking 40mg...is that going to be too much or will I be fine?
  16. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    Also, I see people in the forums talking about stacking epistane with Stanozane. Is it worth it to stack this or should I just run Epi alone.
  17. Senior Member
    rphash49's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    118671
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    88.8%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by dthemann22 View Post
    Is that a definite fact? What if it's actually the right dosage/potency and I'm actually taking 40mg...is that going to be too much or will I be fine?
    Not completely understanding this post...

    I've never had a problem with underdosed/bunk RC but it is definitely possible that a RC is underdosed/bunk. I've read multiple post/reviews to that fact. I can't say if 40mg is too much for you, only you can determine that based on tolerance to sides.
  18. Senior Member
    rphash49's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    118671
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    88.8%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by dthemann22 View Post
    Also, I see people in the forums talking about stacking epistane with Stanozane. Is it worth it to stack this or should I just run Epi alone.
    I stack stano with almost all my cycles. It has pros and cons. Con would be if you are prone to hair loss. I'm bald and beautiful so I don't give a ****
  19. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    Ahh now I see what your saying. I kinda realized that after I read it a second time. Hopefully I won't have a problem with the stuff I got.
  20. Senior Member
    rphash49's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,520
    Rep Power
    118671
    Level
    35
    Lv. Percent
    88.8%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by dthemann22 View Post
    Ahh now I see what your saying. I kinda realized that after I read it a second time. Hopefully I won't have a problem with the stuff I got.
    Cool! I'd say start at 30 for first two weeks and if sides are not existent or minimal take it up to 40 for the final 4 weeks. You can always back down to 30 if needed. I personally start epi at 40 and don't go any higher because I've already determined my tolerance. Some are comfortable at much higher doses but for a first run I'd play it safe to see how your body handles epi.
  21. New Member
    FranARG's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Age
    26
    Posts
    411
    Rep Power
    17434
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    79.55%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    I dunno if some else already said it, but I would add some taurine to control possible back pumps. Epi gave super painful backpumps, may be it was because I did not add some taurine.
  22. New Member
    sonnysponza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    127
    Rep Power
    6129
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    20.51%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by dthemann22 View Post
    Thanks for the input it's really helpful. So if I do 6 weeks it would look like 30/30/30/40/40/40? would you recommend going to 50 for weeks 5 and 6? this is my first cycle so I don't want to go overkill but I do want to see some good results.
    Sounds like overkill to me ? How much mg each epistane pill ? I'm about to do my first oh cycle of msten and I'm starting at one pill a day
    Yoyoyo
  23. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    Each pill is 10mg...from all the research I've done the general consensus is that starting at 20mg is a waste and it takes about 3 weeks to kick in so a 6 week cycle is necessary to see the best gains
  24. New Member
    dthemann22's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  186 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Age
    22
    Posts
    19
    Rep Power
    25
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    97.75%

    For epi at least
  25. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Msten is a totally different steroid
    30mg is good 40 is great 50 is too but some people start to get sides that make them stop... like crazy back pumps and dry joints
    Why not zoidberg?
  26. New Member
    sonnysponza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    127
    Rep Power
    6129
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    20.51%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post
    Msten is a totally different steroid
    30mg is good 40 is great 50 is too but some people start to get sides that make them stop... like crazy back pumps and dry joints
    What's a recommended dose for msten ? 8/12/16/20/20 ?
    Yoyoyo
  27. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I'm not positive but from what I've seen 20 is recommended. But I'm not running ms ten you are, I would put a little more research into your cycle if your still asking those questions
    Why not zoidberg?
  28. Elite Member
    hvactech's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9,561
    Rep Power
    2717707
    Level
    78
    Lv. Percent
    90.06%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnysponza View Post

    What's a recommended dose for msten ? 8/12/16/20/20 ?
    Are you still asking about your msten layout? Mehhhhhh
    LG Sciences forum representative
    www.lgsciences.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/249846-lg-sciences-would.html
  29. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    Are you still asking about your msten layout? Mehhhhhh
    I have a slight recollection of flaming this guy at one point for some reason lol
    Why not zoidberg?
  30. Professional Member
    EatMoar's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  193 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    3,431
    Rep Power
    1162435
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    37.81%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post

    I have a slight recollection of flaming this guy at one point for some reason lol
    6 foot at 186 lbs.... Wut
  31. Elite Member
    Piston Honda's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    5,074
    Rep Power
    7406155
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    80.08%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post

    I have a slight recollection of flaming this guy at one point for some reason lol
    Probably when he was wondering if AU could import US steroids
    BOARD TYRANT
  32. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post
    6 foot at 186 lbs.... Wut
    Lol you just reminded me I have to swap my weight numbers around
    Why not zoidberg?
  33. Elite Member
    Piston Honda's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    5,074
    Rep Power
    7406155
    Level
    90
    Lv. Percent
    80.08%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by macdady View Post

    Lol you just reminded me I have to swap my weight numbers around
    Yes, you're actually 681 pounds
    BOARD TYRANT
  34. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Probably when he was wondering if AU could import US steroids
    Yup! That's the guy lol
    Why not zoidberg?
  35. Senior Member
    macdady's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,217
    Rep Power
    45085
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    56.58%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Honda View Post
    Yes, you're actually 681 pounds
    Damn straight solid muscle 0% bf bitches! Lol
    Why not zoidberg?
  36. New Member
    sonnysponza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    127
    Rep Power
    6129
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    20.51%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post

    Are you still asking about your msten layout? Mehhhhhh
    I haven't mentioned my msten layout ? It just came in the mail
    Yoyoyo
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. First PH Cycle need help.
    By jumpshot903 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-21-2009, 09:47 AM
  2. First PH Cycle: 1-ad with 6-trione for PCT
    By plzdontflame in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-17-2009, 01:06 AM
  3. First PH cycle...need help
    By wrstlr09 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-16-2009, 10:57 PM
  4. FIRST PH cycle need help! (H-Drol)
    By Kdawg2009 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 04-01-2009, 09:36 AM
  5. First Ph Cycle, Need Help!!!
    By bodybuilder10 in forum Supplement Logs
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-16-2008, 10:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in