HCG and HMG PCT Restarts Keep Failing - AnabolicMinds.com

HCG and HMG PCT Restarts Keep Failing

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    HCG and HMG PCT Restarts Keep Failing


    I'm not sure why I'm having these problems but here it goes.
    About a year ago I took a superdrol cycle that was probably 10 days long with a 10 day break then 3 more weeks ( I went on vacation for those middle 10 days). Immediately following that, I took 4 weeks of Clomid at 50,50,25,25. This did nothing to help. My balls were atrophied from week 1 or 2 of the cycle and never came back. I waited a month and tried the clomid again to no avail. I also through in multiple different OTC test boosters on the 2nd PCT such as Isa Test GF, Fadogia, Fenugreek, Unleashed. Nothing helped.
    So months after the cycle, summer ends, school starts, and I still have small testicles and feel terrible. School is rough to say the least. I finally find out about the $50 online lab tests (my doctor wouldn't give me them). Roughly 5 months post 1st PCT attempt, I try a THIRD Clomid attempt along with Nolva. I get my bloods done the last day and I'm at 608 or so. Great right? Well I felt terrible and my testicles were still tiny. Feeling absolutely terrible (lethargy depression no sex drive no motivation weak weight gain inability to concentrate and study), I had to withdraw from school and go home to try to get help.
    I keep trying Clomid and getting anywhere from 600-800 T readings, great Free T, good LH, normal FSH, normal E, normal Prolactin levels but I still felt horrible and had small nuts and limp stick. I even tried Torem one of those times.
    Each time I stopped clomid I would retest my T and it would ALWAYS have dropped to 300-450 range.
    Now, I am currently on my 14th day of HCG at in which I used 18,000 IU spread out and 6 shots of 75 IU of HMG every other day. Today was my last day. I have not seen much, if any, testicular restoring but they do feel much more firm. I'm extremely worried. I used aromasin with it at 6.25 mg/day. I'd say my testicles are 66% of their normal size. They maybe have been around 50% during all the PCTs. I just started Clomid 50mg and Nolva 20mg tonight as well and had planned on going for 4 weeks or as long as you seem necessary. BTW I took an Epi/Hdrol stack 6 months before this cycle and recovered on OTC PCT and had no testicle shrinkage.
    I really just want to feel normal again. I've been so down and worn out about this. I'm 22 right now and it's just a bad time for me.
    I'm sorry for the lengthy post, please any help would be greatly appreciated.

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    age stats?....
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    Each time I stopped clomid I would retest my T and it would ALWAYS have dropped to 300-450 range.
    Welcome to my world.

    It`s not so bad.

    I don`t have limp dick or anything.
    •   
       

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    Hey man that sounds rough as hell. It seems like this has been going on for a few months. The human body has an incredible ability to bounce back but the mind can some times be an anchor. If your ED is coming from an out side source, smoking, drug use, poor diet, stress. Some times the issue can be in the mental. I am by no means implying that you smoke or do drugs but if you do not maybe talk to a psychiatrist to try and clear your mind and maybe get some confidence back. And if that doesn’t work just know the ladies could give a **** about the size of the ball bag, get hooked up with some Viagra and go to pound town! Good luck brother.
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    Bro stop this madness. Be patient and eventually you will return to normal. You feel like **** because you keep messing with your hormones. Leave it alone and relax. As long as your dick still works ball size doesn't matter. I'm sure they will eventually bounce back also. In a couple months get bloods done again to see how everything looks.
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    I should probably finish the clomid/nolva though right? Because I just finished the hcg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric160 View Post
    age stats?....
    22 stats as in my weight?I'm 6'2 215. I was 200 before but I can't seem to keep off weight now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killler View Post
    Welcome to my world.It`s not so bad.I don`t have limp dick or anything.
    I don't either but I have no sex drive or energy I crash all day long
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Hey man that sounds rough as hell. It seems like this has been going on for a few months. The human body has an incredible ability to bounce back but the mind can some times be an anchor. If your ED is coming from an out side source, smoking, drug use, poor diet, stress. Some times the issue can be in the mental. I am by no means implying that you smoke or do drugs but if you do not maybe talk to a psychiatrist to try and clear your mind and maybe get some confidence back. And if that doesn’t work just know the ladies could give a **** about the size of the ball bag, get hooked up with some Viagra and go to pound town! Good luck brother.
    Haha thanks man good post. I don't care what chicks think of them I just thought it was important info to share with my particular story. I just remember when I had a crazy sex drive the boys were very large. As for drugs etc i don't do drugs and I was drinking years before the cycle and since it happene I've really cut down, mainly because drinking isn't fun when you're so damn tired all day. Also have fixed my diet too and exercise more consistently than ever before yet I've probly gained 15 pounds since the problems started and cannot lose the fat no matter what I do
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    I should probably finish the clomid/nolva though right? Because I just finished the hcg
    No the best thing you can do is get blood work. Get it done and post the results so we can see what's currently going on. Stop with the plethora of hormones until you know what the issue is. Then you can fix the issue instead of guessing. A lot if times time will resolve most of this **** by itself but it takes patience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeblow1 View Post
    No the best thing you can do is get blood work. Get it done and post the results so we can see what's currently going on. Stop with the plethora of hormones until you know what the issue is. Then you can fix the issue instead of guessing. A lot if times time will resolve most of this **** by itself but it takes patience.
    I have bloodwork in several weeks so I will then. The reason I ask is because HCG shuts your down so I thought I should now. I had planned to for 4 weeks then get blood work and stop taking everything. Also, wouldn't blood work be pointless right now? It could be skewed by the HCG and would probably change within a few weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    I have bloodwork in several weeks so I will then. The reason I ask is because HCG shuts your down so I thought I should now. I had planned to for 4 weeks then get blood work and stop taking everything. Also, wouldn't blood work be pointless right now? It could be skewed by the HCG and would probably change within a few weeks.
    I'd stop the hcg get blood work to see where everything is at. Then get bloods again in a few weeks to see what changes have occurred. If you can only afford to get one set of blood work then stop everything and wait a few weeks and get them. The repeated pct attempts haven't worked so now you need to see what's going on with your body when your normal. Like I said its going to take time but your body should come around if your still young. But if your test levels normally are staying in the low 300's you may want to consider hrt. I wouldn't want to suffer through test levels that low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeblow1 View Post
    I'd stop the hcg get blood work to see where everything is at. Then get bloods again in a few weeks to see what changes have occurred. If you can only afford to get one set of blood work then stop everything and wait a few weeks and get them. The repeated pct attempts haven't worked so now you need to see what's going on with your body when your normal. Like I said its going to take time but your body should come around if your still young. But if your test levels normally are staying in the low 300's you may want to consider hrt. I wouldn't want to suffer through test levels that low.
    I have stopped the hcg. The blood work isn't for a few weeks so ill let you know how it goes
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    Thanks for the support you guys. I kinda think I may be feelin a little better... My nuts are a bit larger and I have more random erections and always morning wood.
    I still have severe lethargy, focus issues, ability to motivate myself issues etc.
    Does anyone know if this has to do with CNS fatigue?
    Is low T related to CNS Fatigue?
    It feels like I don't get any sleep although I get plenty. I've been tryin the Jump Manua(plyos etc) and I haven't seen any results and wondered if this could be why.
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    It wouldn't hurt to see an endocrinologist. They get paid the big bucks for a reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    It wouldn't hurt to see an endocrinologist. They get paid the big bucks for a reason.
    Ive seen one already. She was convinced I was just depressed and shoveled anti depressants on me. She didnt think it was possible that I was shut down with a 500 T level. Even though I told her I was on clomid when I got the test. Then I got a 350 T level months after. Still nothing. She thought I was lazy an it aggravated me even more.
    I even gave the pills a chance for a few months but nothing worked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Ive seen one already. She was convinced I was just depressed and shoveled anti depressants on me. She didnt think it was possible that I was shut down with a 500 T level. Even though I told her I was on clomid when I got the test. Then I got a 350 T level months after. Still nothing. She thought I was lazy an it aggravated me even more.
    stop taking all AIs, SERMs, T boosters, hormones/prohormones, caffeine, fat burners or other stimulants and see another endo after at least a month break. If you really are messed up they will be able to help you. If you keep playing doctor and working off of bro-science you will just mess your self up worse.

    You say your tired all the time. I'm going out on a limb here but I'd bet you consume stims to counteract feeling tired. If you over use stims they will stop working. If you stop taking everything your body will have the opportunity to find equilibrium again. If it doesn't, you need a doc to put the puzzle together.

    Eat intelligently, practice good sleep hygiene and get exercise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    stop taking all AIs, SERMs, T boosters, hormones/prohormones, caffeine, fat burners or other stimulants and see another endo after at least a month break. If you really are messed up they will be able to help you. If you keep playing doctor and working off of bro-science you will just mess your self up worse.You say your tired all the time. I'm going out on a limb here but I'd bet you consume stims to counteract feeling tired. If you over use stims they will stop working. If you stop taking everything your body will have the opportunity to find equilibrium again. If it doesn't, you need a doc to put the puzzle together. Eat intelligently, practice good sleep hygiene and get exercise.
    Thanks man, I think you're really right on this one. I guess I always just freaked out when stopping and caved in and took more PCT. ill stop. As for stims I did they for a whole take alot mainly because I have gained that extra fat. But I stopped a while ago. Is there anyway to tell while you actually are on PCT if you are recovering? Obviously I haven't felt good and I think that's why I always started them up again. I will stop though.I had just read so many threads saying "if pct doesn't work run hcg clomid an all that" so I thought that's what was needed.
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    Your body needs to return to equilibrium. PCT helps you do that following a cycle, but it can really throw your levels out of whack if run for too long. Stopping and starting SERMs and taking HCG will most def confuse your body. Patience will serve you better than anything.

    Try a basic exercise routine that includes cardio as a warm up and eat smart. This should help you feel better, sleep better and cut down on body fat naturally.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    Your body needs to return to equilibrium. PCT helps you do that following a cycle, but it can really throw your levels out of whack if run for too long. Stopping and starting SERMs and taking HCG will most def confuse your body. Patience will serve you better than anything.

    Try a basic exercise routine that includes cardio as a warm up and eat smart. This should help you feel better, sleep better and cut down on body fat naturally.
    Okay. I'm on board with what you think. Only question I have is well, I already ran the HCG and it "shuts you down". Are you sure it's okay I don't run anything after it now? I've done about a week of clomid/nolva but stopped last night.
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    yes, give your endocrine system a rest.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    yes, give your endocrine system a rest.
    Okay Brotha thanks again
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    Anybody have any input on the CNS, vertical leap, and PCT's effects on them?
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    Just an update: Stopped the clomid nolva and caffeine last Thursday night. Balls at about 90% and have been for about a week along with morning wood for a month or two. Other than that, no improvement in energy, libido, mood, or concentration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Just an update: Stopped the clomid nolva and caffeine last Thursday night. Balls at about 90% and have been for about a week. Other than that, no improvement in energy, libido, mood, or concentration.
    Hey brother I know you are hoping for instant gratification but it is going to take a bit of time. With the amount of stuff you have been putting in your body it could be weeks or months before you are back to an even level. Just be patient. Keep going to the gym to try and build up your energy and mood through the natural secretion of your bodies own enzymes and chemicals. If you are having a hard time concentrating try some form of meditation to quite the mind and attempt to refocus your self. If you do get into an intimate situation and you find your self not being able to preform be honest with who ever it is about what‘s going on an you should be ok, and if they give you a hard time or don’t understand phuck em they are obviously dealing with their own garbage . And know that the body is designed to repair it self so keep a positive out look and know that tomorrow you will be one step closer to being back to your normal self.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Hey brother I know you are hoping for instant gratification but it is going to take a bit of time. With the amount of stuff you have been putting in your body it could be weeks or months before you are back to an even level. Just be patient. Keep going to the gym to try and build up your energy and mood through the natural secretion of your bodies own enzymes and chemicals. If you are having a hard time concentrating try some form of meditation to quite the mind and attempt to refocus your self. If you do get into an intimate situation and you find your self not being able to preform be honest with who ever it is about what‘s going on an you should be ok, and if they give you a hard time or don’t understand phuck em they are obviously dealing with their own garbage . And know that the body is designed to repair it self so keep a positive out look and know that tomorrow you will be one step closer to being back to your normal self.
    Okay I'll do my best. I guess the first time you go through anything it seems so daunting. Especially when there's no handbook on how these things work. Ill keep trying to get into the gym. I don't worry myself about the sexual sides because I know it's not my fault. Hopefully ill be back sooner than later!
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    why do you say your restart is failing? you don't have prior bloodwork to compare to, you are just judging it based on other symptoms that might be caused by liver hit from your serm usage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Okay I'll do my best. I guess the first time you go through anything it seems so daunting. Especially when there's no handbook on how these things work. Ill keep trying to get into the gym. I don't worry myself about the sexual sides because I know it's not my fault. Hopefully ill be back sooner than later!
    For sure hopefully for you it will be the first and the last. the gym is going to be your best friend for mood and energy. Challenging your body through physical exercise gets your body going in all directions which is a good thing, considering it has been more or less dormant for the time you have been trying to reboot it. Do some research on the effects of physical activity and what it does for the brain and your immune system and the rest of your body. If that doesn’t motivate you IDk what will
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    why do you say your restart is failing? you don't have prior bloodwork to compare to, you are just judging it based on other symptoms that might be caused by liver hit from your serm usage.
    Ive had blood tests like 5 times since all this and my liver enzymes checked out fine. I feel like I'm shut down because my testicles are just now normal sized, whereas before they were about 50%. Also I have no sex drive, high anxiety, no intensity, no pride, no energy, no drive, no motivation, I feel zoned out and can't focus, more depressed even though I tried anti depressants. I've done a cycle before and my balls never shrank and I came back and felt great right after PCT (ran Reversitol v2 and Formadrol Xtreme). Also after about a month after stopping my clomid runs my test would drop down to the 300-450 range. I felt this way in PCT last time but that only last a month... I've been feeling this way for 14 months now. So forgive me for wanting help now but I'm exhausted and tired of not being able to live a normal life.
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    No, I understand you wanting help. My point is that you seem totally fixated on the testosterone level but you have no idea what your level was before the cycle. It might be related to how you feel, but it very well could be something else. And now you've spent months monkeying with your endocrine system (against your doctor's advice it sounds like). Definitely try to just get some calm, and give it time without constantly bouncing your hormones all over the place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    For sure hopefully for you it will be the first and the last. the gym is going to be your best friend for mood and energy. Challenging your body through physical exercise gets your body going in all directions which is a good thing, considering it has been more or less dormant for the time you have been trying to reboot it. Do some research on the effects of physical activity and what it does for the brain and your immune system and the rest of your body. If that doesn’t motivate you IDk what will
    Thanks man, I have been trying and so far no results. Keep in mind I've felt this way for over a year now but just this week (I'm guessing from the HCG recently) i have my balls back. I've been using a multi Vitamin, Vitamins B C and D as well. In addition to Toco 8(vitamin E).
    I know I'm being pushy and hasty it's just such a drag. I felt amazing before and now feel awful and I'm not in school because of this. My memory is terrible and I'm in such a terrible mood. I know you guys say to keep your head up but after a year it gets way too hard to do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, I understand you wanting help. My point is that you seem totally fixated on the testosterone level but you have no idea what your level was before the cycle. It might be related to how you feel, but it very well could be something else. And now you've spent months monkeying with your endocrine system (against your doctor's advice it sounds like). Definitely try to just get some calm, and give it time without constantly bouncing your hormones all over the place.
    Yes you're right. Ever since this happened I've wondered why they don't include a T level check in basic physicals such as HS sports or whatever the case. It'd be interesting, atleast then I'd know my true baseline even though it changed alot. But back to your point, yes I don't know my original T level but its got to be above 400... I mean I'm 22. It should be atleast 600.
    I will note that the doc found a small micro pituitary adenoma, but after tons of blood tests they found that it was nonfunctional and therefore not affecting me in anyway or my hormones in anyway so they won't remove it. It's small, about 5x5 MM. So after thinking it was that and after thinking it was plain old depression I'm pretty locked on to the low tetosterone theory. I just have no 'oomph' no desire to dominate like before. No sexual urges. I just want my old life back. I have 0 plans of ever taking a PH or steroid again. Never. Nothing against you guys, it's just I would never wanna go through this again.
    Before I was very competitive and sexually aroused easily and had enthusiasm for days. Now they are nonexistent. A big side effects is just feeling dazed all the time. Like I'm daydreaming 24/7 but I can't willy way out of it.
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    I am impatient because i worry if im just wasting time. TRT? i wonder if its necessary.
    I've head blood tests come back in the 600-800 while ON clomid then after it was always back in the 300-400 range, and at these times my balls were still shrunk all the time.
    I've had my prolactin, cortisol, vitamin levels, liver enzymes and everything on the Female Hormone Panel blood test on LabCorp an they all came back in range. Estrogen has been routinely fine as well as Free T %. Normal thyroid levels. The only thing that moves around is the T(with good reason). I know everyone says ball size has nothing to do with T level but I feel that it has SOMETHING to do with it.
    I had always heard if PCT didnt work that I was still shutdown and to run more clomid etc. usually people's balls would return but mine never did. That's why I did the HCG HMG protocol and they are back! Maybe NOW the SERMS will raise and KEEP my T levels up because my balls can sustain it? I don't know it's just what I've gathered from reading countless forums for months and months.
    Keep in mind I've stopped the SERMS and T boosters and Im gonna keep to that.
    Im merely trying to explain why I did the things I did.
    Anytime you guys respond it feels great by the way.
  34. Elite Member
    McCrew530's Avatar
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    Not a sarcastic question or a scare attempt but have you been checked for a Brain Tumor? Im not trying to be Dr House or anything but the zoned out feeling may be something far more severe...
    Google energy levels when you have a brain tumor and click on the link from the brain science foundation, it is an interesting read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Not a sarcastic question or a scare attempt but have you been checked for a Brain Tumor? Im not trying to be Dr House or anything but the zoned out feeling may be something far more severe... Google energy levels when you have a brain tumor and click on the link from the brain science foundation, it is an interesting read.
    Yes. Check my post to EASYEJL. I do but it's non functional etc. I explained it in there. I for a while thought that was it but an endocrinologist and 2 different neurologists are against the procedure and don't think it's big enough to effect me. My focus problems are like when you stare at something on a wall and everything becomes kinda hazy like daydreaming. All sounds are kinda muffled. It's sorta like feeling like i need to fall asleep but I don't.They checked my peripherals and said they were fine when it comes to the brain tumor question. Normal cortisol normal prolactin. They don't seem to think its doing anything to me. They said about 10% of people have them and most just don't know it. I mean I felt this way last PCT it's just it went away after PCT
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    Im getting bloodwork in a week by the way.
    Would taking a Preworkout before lifting be a good idea to motivate myself now or a bad one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Im getting bloodwork in a week by the way.
    Would taking a Preworkout before lifting be a good idea to motivate myself now or a bad one?
    No, that's not a good idea. You need some solid detox.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    No, that's not a good idea. You need some solid detox.
    Okay I won't.
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    Blood test is this week. Gonna get a full hormone panel along with CBC and vitamins etc.
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    I don't feel any better yet but ill hang in there. Is it normal for balls to change size a bit throughout the day? Like firmness as well and tightness of the scrotum?
    Getting my Testosterone and SHBG tested tomorrow morning and I'm working on getting a full test set up once a week for the next 4 weeks or so before my appointment with my new endo.
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