HCG and HMG PCT Restarts Keep Failing

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  1. I don't want to get you down so I hope I'm not coming off that way. I wish you the best in resolving your issues. Get better bro
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Do you have gyno at all? Lactation? Have you grown a vaj?

    Not trying to stir up anything here but I am trying to make a point. Yes your hormones are all over the place because you won't let your body recover on its own naturally. Taking clomid every two or three months will throw the homeostasis of your hormone levels out of wack. YOU are causing yourself to go thru an emotional roller coaster. Also you seem VERY preoccupied with your nuts. You're stressing yourself out man! Over nothing! Who cares how big your nuts are! It seems more like you have body dysmorphia issues more than anything else, maybe manic depressive. Literally every post you center the discussion on the size of your nuts, even the title of the thread. Mental health bro...

    And no, CNS fatigue is a myth
    Yeah man I know I do stress alot. It's just that its been over a year since I felt normal. I pretty much have been a vaj yeah. I can admit that. It's half because I stress so much but also half because I just don't feel right you know? It's not all in my head because even when I'm in a good mood I don't have the vitality or sense of well being that is normal.
    yes it is my fault for prolonging this. I stupidly kept taking clomid. I'm done taking it though. It's been about 2 weeks or more since I stopped.
    I have slight gyno from my first cycle and only tiny bit of lactation if I mess with them. Which I don't. But I got that after my first cycle and never worried about it so its not causing my feelings.
    I keep bringing up my testicles because its the only physical thing, other than some fat gain, that's different that I normally am. And because my 1st cycle my nuts never shrunk. I personally don't care if they are big. I just thought maybe that was a concern for my T production and because its just the only thing different about my body, like I said.
    I really do stress myself out but I'm so exhausted all the time and don't have life's enthusiam, so it's hard for me to get out of the house and do much. I can't really go socialize because I'm so drained all the time no matter what my sleep is like.
    What is going on with the caffeine withdrawal if its not CNS? How do you explain when your muscles aren't sore anymore but you can't push as much weight?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Manic depression (bipolar disorder) could explain your highs and lows, lack of confidence, motivation issues, drive. It is known to strike adults out of left field and with no warning whatsoever...I'm no therapist or doctor but I seriously think you need to see a shrink bro. And be completely honest and open about everything
    Well I've tried multiple anti depressant medications. None of which did anything. I could feel how it kept me higher, but it didnt help anything else other ham forced smiles I would call it... I'm really not depressed. I can laugh all the time it's just I don't feel the same without my energy and sex drive. It feels like Im trying to do everything on 3 hours of sleep. Just can't focus and don't have the sexual or aggressive tendencies. It's more of constant tiredness not depression. I've created the depression and anxiety as a result of being exhausted and frustrated. That's why the anxiety pills don't help me. They mask the problem instead of addressing the root cause. Also my highs are like 2 minutes a day. It's not a roller coaster. Could you explain how taking clomid or serms can prolong the process? I get that they do. I just want to understand the cause so it will give me more knowledge and for the sake of curiosity.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    Yeah man I know I do stress alot. It's just that its been over a year since I felt normal. I pretty much have been a vaj yeah. I can admit that. It's half because I stress so much but also half because I just don't feel right you know? It's not all in my head because even when I'm in a good mood I don't have the vitality or sense of well being that is normal.
    yes it is my fault for prolonging this. I stupidly kept taking clomid. I'm done taking it though. It's been about 2 weeks or more since I stopped.
    I have slight gyno from my first cycle and only tiny bit of lactation if I mess with them. Which I don't. But I got that after my first cycle and never worried about it so its not causing my feelings.
    I keep bringing up my testicles because its the only physical thing, other than some fat gain, that's different that I normally am. And because my 1st cycle my nuts never shrunk. I personally don't care if they are big. I just thought maybe that was a concern for my T production and because its just the only thing different about my body, like I said.
    I really do stress myself out but I'm so exhausted all the time and don't have life's enthusiam, so it's hard for me to get out of the house and do much. I can't really go socialize because I'm so drained all the time no matter what my sleep is like.
    What is going on with the caffeine withdrawal if its not CNS? How do you explain when your muscles aren't sore anymore but you can't push as much weight?
    Whoa there. Lots to address. Testicular size has nothing to do with testosterone production, its a common misconception. Lactation is a big issue you need to address, preferably with a doctor, and tell them about all your hormone cycles and serm cycles. You simply won't "feel right" till this is fixed
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  5. Just imagine how stressed and paranoid you'd feel if you had been in the worst part of your PCT for 14 straight months. You kinda drive yourself crazy. But if you recovered you'd feel fine again
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Whoa there. Lots to address. Testicular size has nothing to do with testosterone production, its a common misconception. Lactation is a big issue you need to address, preferably with a doctor, and tell them about all your hormone cycles and serm cycles. You simply won't "feel right" till this is fixed
    I had my prolactin and estrogen checked and they said it was fine multiple times. I told my doc and they didnt seem to think it was that weird. He said it definitely wasn't normal but I think when they saw prolactin and estrogen in range then they thought it was fine. It's like if I really squeeze it, it has the smallest clear pen point drop of whatever liquid it is. Hopefully milk cause I'm thirsty. I told them I took a supplement that I was pretty positive shut me down. My T tested out around 500 but it was just after clomid and I figured it was starting to drop.
    Also I took pramipexole for a while.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Well I've tried multiple anti depressant medications. None of which did anything. I could feel how it kept me higher, but it didnt help anything else other ham forced smiles I would call it... I'm really not depressed. I can laugh all the time it's just I don't feel the same without my energy and sex drive. It feels like Im trying to do everything on 3 hours of sleep. Just can't focus and don't have the sexual or aggressive tendencies. It's more of constant tiredness not depression. I've created the depression and anxiety as a result of being exhausted and frustrated. That's why the anxiety pills don't help me. They mask the problem instead of addressing the root cause. Also my highs are like 2 minutes a day. It's not a roller coaster. Could you explain how taking clomid or serms can prolong the process? I get that they do. I just want to understand the cause so it will give me more knowledge and for the sake of curiosity.
    I understand what you are saying here. It's ok if you're not ok. Time will mend all things.

    Clomid cycles will mess up your hormones because incidental use of the compound raises test in males WHILE on it. Once you stop taking it your levels will drop somewhat. Your continuous use is causing havoc to your bodies natural production. Over time levels will naturally find a balance unless you have caused permanent damage to your thyroid or testes. You should allow your body at least half a year to try and recover from the abuse you've put it through. The thyroid is a very resilient organ. Testes as well but they may take more time. If your docs can't figure it out, if I were you I would try to stay away from supps for several months then get bloods. If all is still not well I would then try a reboot with some natty test booster and estro management such as DAA + erase pro, or something similar
    Independent Review

  8. It really is a waiting game. It's gonna take considerable time for you to recover unless one of your docs can figure it out
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    I understand what you are saying here. It's ok if you're not ok. Time will mend all things.

    Clomid cycles will mess up your hormones because incidental use of the compound raises test in males WHILE on it. Once you stop taking it your levels will drop somewhat. Your continuous use is causing havoc to your bodies natural production. Over time levels will naturally find a balance unless you have caused permanent damage to your thyroid or testes. You should allow your body at least half a year to try and recover from the abuse you've put it through. The thyroid is a very resilient organ. Testes as well but they may take more time. If your docs can't figure it out, if I were you I would try to stay away from supps for several months then get bloods. If all is still not well I would then try a reboot with some natty test booster and estro management such as DAA + erase pro, or something similar
    Did the cycle affect my thyroid? I think I remember my thyroid was mainly fine but my TSH was slightly high.
    So you're saying clomid will boost it at the beginning of PCT so you don't immediately lose gains but it won't work now because its too late?
    Whats the point in using clomid if your T drops after?

  10. Is it bad if I slightly lactate as I am even if my estrogen and prolactin are in range? How would you even stop it? The prami didnt make me feel any better although it halted the prolactin

  11. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    Did the cycle affect my thyroid? I think I remember my thyroid was mainly fine but my TSH was slightly high.
    So you're saying clomid will boost it at the beginning of PCT so you don't immediately lose gains but it won't work now because its too late?
    Whats the point in using clomid if your T drops after?
    That's not what I said. Bro you need to use Google and learn as much as you can. I did not say clomid effed up your thyroid. I said perhaps your thyroid may be an issue of concern regarding your symptoms. I said clomid boosts t production and once you stop taking it your t will drop, then your body will slowly recover but you stop that process from happening because you jump right back into a clomid cycle...
    Independent Review

  12. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    That's not what I said. Bro you need to use Google and learn as much as you can. I did not say clomid effed up your thyroid. I said perhaps your thyroid may be an issue of concern regarding your symptoms. I said clomid boosts t production and once you stop taking it your t will drop, then your body will slowly recover but you stop that process from happening because you jump right back into a clomid cycle...
    Okay I understand the clomid portion now. I was under the impression previously that it brought back your body's ability to make T immediately. So I never thought there was a transition period where you need to stop it to finish recovering. Makes sense, thanks.
    And no I didn't mean to put words in your mouth about thyroid/clomid. I was simply asking if PCT had an effect on it because you mentioned te thyroid possibly bein out of whack. I never thought it did btw.

  13. palmfist do you have any input on my lactation question an do you know why people have to stop Preworkouts for a month or so?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    As for CNS fatigue. It's gotta be real. How else do you explain caffeine tolerance and fatigue after stopping?
    Its called caffeine withdrawal. Caffeine is the most widely used psychoactive drug in the world. Extensive use will cause the cns to to be become tolerant to the drug requiring higher doses for the user to "feel" it's effects. Caffeinism is probably what you have, causing you to think your cns is "fatigued"...
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    palmfist do you have any input on my lactation question an do you know why people have to stop Preworkouts for a month or so?
    How old are you again bro? Dial down the desperation bro and do some googling for yourself. As for stopping preworkouts look at what I wrote about caffeine dependency above. As for lactation...

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...es-can-lactate

    There you go. First two hits on google. Do some of your own leg work. I'm done here. GL with everything...
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  16. Could very well be related to caffeine and cortisol issues. Im 22. Thank you again. Your help and effort means alot to me.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    What could cause these issues then?
    Like anything with our bodies, more than 1 thing can be the cause of similar to identical symptoms. You're fixating on it "having to be cause by testosterone" which isn't really helping. Restart as an open book, talk to more doctors, nutritionists, etc. Get more and different blood work if you can. As a really dumb sounding one, you could have been bitten by a tick with Lyme disease, and it would cover most of the symptoms you are describing too. So there are literally thousands of possible reasons you could feel that way. Not that I'm saying it can't be testosterone, but it doesn't have to be.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Like anything with our bodies, more than 1 thing can be the cause of similar to identical symptoms. You're fixating on it "having to be cause by testosterone" which isn't really helping. Restart as an open book, talk to more doctors, nutritionists, etc. Get more and different blood work if you can. As a really dumb sounding one, you could have been bitten by a tick with Lyme disease, and it would cover most of the symptoms you are describing too. So there are literally thousands of possible reasons you could feel that way. Not that I'm saying it can't be testosterone, but it doesn't have to be.
    i hear ya. I'm getting a long list of bloods done tomorrow morning which I'll post the results. Felt a bit better today. Seems it may have something to do with stimulants. Definitely abused fat burners and adderoll to no avail of fat loss probably because of the cortisol spikes. Definitely more stressed but I've been working on that and I'm getting better and just chilling about it. I remember my last cycle I took ore workout almost every day then in pct too and never felt better. Maybe it's because I was recovering but my cortisol went to hell. Since then, since I had thought it was T I said we'll ill use fat burners here n there until I feel better so I won't gain too much fat. Maybe I was causing all this.
    Mince I'm feeling much better I may take a crack at getting rid of the small amount of gyno I have.
    Mots got small mardi gras sized beads behind each nipple and it pushes out making it puffy and not as tight to my chest as it should be.
    I've attempted to remove it a few times before with Letro and got results but when I tapered down it came back. I have Letro, Aromasin, and Nolva.
    How would you go about doing that when the time comes?

  19. Usually taper letro up to 2 until its completely gone then taper down to 0 at that point add in exem 6-25 mg a day for a couple weeks then get off. Exem is a suicide inhibitor so no worry of rebound

    Been reading up on clomid cycles that last months on end bro. Seem to be completely safe in regards to sides. I'll post a link for you to check out. That said I still think you need time off everything for awhile...
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Usually taper letro up to 2 until its completely gone then taper down to 0 at that point add in exem 6-25 mg a day for a couple weeks then get off. Exem is a suicide inhibitor so no worry of rebound

    Been reading up on clomid cycles that last months on end bro. Seem to be completely safe in regards to sides. I'll post a link for you to check out. That said I still think you need time off everything for awhile...
    definately relaxin on the supps.
    Exemestane needs no taper then. Interesting. And how long would the Letro taper take. Do you drop the dose by .5 mg every week?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    definately relaxin on the supps.
    Exemestane needs no taper then. Interesting. And how long would the Letro taper take. Do you drop the dose by .5 mg every week?
    More like every few days. So letro would probably be used for two weeks or less
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  22. I got a giant list of bloods done yesterday. Hopefully it will be ready tomorrow.
    Since my stress levels have been so high and ove been so tired for so long and I have maybe 15 pounds of extra fat that I didn't have before all this, I'm thinking cortisol has something to do with it (we will find out when the results come). I started making blueberry+ strawberry+ V8+ banana+ spinach smoothies everyday. Eating healthy wheat sandwiches and lots of peas and corn too. I also picked up some melatonin to help with sleep and valerian root. I also am taking 4-6 grams of Vit C a day, a Vitamin B complex, and a Multivitamin every morning as well. Also a decaf green tea pill in the morning.
    My question is, if this is cortisol related, when can I see: 1. A homeostasis with cortisol. 2. Symptoms of severe anxiety, stress, fatigue, and sex drive to normalize. 3. Abdominal fat loss.
    Most of that 15 pounds has accumulated around my waist.
    Cant wait to get my blood results! I will post them soon!

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    stop taking all AIs, SERMs, T boosters, hormones/prohormones, caffeine, fat burners or other stimulants and see another endo after at least a month break. If you really are messed up they will be able to help you. If you keep playing doctor and working off of bro-science you will just mess your self up worse.

    You say your tired all the time. I'm going out on a limb here but I'd bet you consume stims to counteract feeling tired. If you over use stims they will stop working. If you stop taking everything your body will have the opportunity to find equilibrium again. If it doesn't, you need a doc to put the puzzle together.

    Eat intelligently, practice good sleep hygiene and get exercise.
    Wisdom
    Killing it with Maximize Intense (iForce) and getting regular with Gut Health (EVOMUSE)

  24. Alright guys most of my results are done. Still waiting on estradiol and dht. It's not labcorp so I can't see them in person but the nurse was willing to tell me a few over the phone. This was done last Wednesday so about 3 weeks post HCG and then the clomid/Nolva.
    Test is 650. That's great.
    Cortisol is 18. That was around 10:30 am. Said it was normal.
    Only thing out of range so far was Total Estrogen. Can anybody clarify the difference between that and estradiol??
    that total estrogen I think she said was in the 170's and the highest normal end was like in the 130's.
    So what do you think so far!?
    I have bad anxiety stress low sex drive and get less random boners although I usually get morning wood and get some erections in the day. Hard time thinking straight and no confidence. More emotional thinking. Less drive for sex more of a focus on past relationships.
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