HCG and HMG PCT Restarts Keep Failing

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    For sure hopefully for you it will be the first and the last. the gym is going to be your best friend for mood and energy. Challenging your body through physical exercise gets your body going in all directions which is a good thing, considering it has been more or less dormant for the time you have been trying to reboot it. Do some research on the effects of physical activity and what it does for the brain and your immune system and the rest of your body. If that doesn’t motivate you IDk what will
    Thanks man, I have been trying and so far no results. Keep in mind I've felt this way for over a year now but just this week (I'm guessing from the HCG recently) i have my balls back. I've been using a multi Vitamin, Vitamins B C and D as well. In addition to Toco 8(vitamin E).
    I know I'm being pushy and hasty it's just such a drag. I felt amazing before and now feel awful and I'm not in school because of this. My memory is terrible and I'm in such a terrible mood. I know you guys say to keep your head up but after a year it gets way too hard to do that.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    No, I understand you wanting help. My point is that you seem totally fixated on the testosterone level but you have no idea what your level was before the cycle. It might be related to how you feel, but it very well could be something else. And now you've spent months monkeying with your endocrine system (against your doctor's advice it sounds like). Definitely try to just get some calm, and give it time without constantly bouncing your hormones all over the place.
    Yes you're right. Ever since this happened I've wondered why they don't include a T level check in basic physicals such as HS sports or whatever the case. It'd be interesting, atleast then I'd know my true baseline even though it changed alot. But back to your point, yes I don't know my original T level but its got to be above 400... I mean I'm 22. It should be atleast 600.
    I will note that the doc found a small micro pituitary adenoma, but after tons of blood tests they found that it was nonfunctional and therefore not affecting me in anyway or my hormones in anyway so they won't remove it. It's small, about 5x5 MM. So after thinking it was that and after thinking it was plain old depression I'm pretty locked on to the low tetosterone theory. I just have no 'oomph' no desire to dominate like before. No sexual urges. I just want my old life back. I have 0 plans of ever taking a PH or steroid again. Never. Nothing against you guys, it's just I would never wanna go through this again.
    Before I was very competitive and sexually aroused easily and had enthusiasm for days. Now they are nonexistent. A big side effects is just feeling dazed all the time. Like I'm daydreaming 24/7 but I can't willy way out of it.
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  3. I am impatient because i worry if im just wasting time. TRT? i wonder if its necessary.
    I've head blood tests come back in the 600-800 while ON clomid then after it was always back in the 300-400 range, and at these times my balls were still shrunk all the time.
    I've had my prolactin, cortisol, vitamin levels, liver enzymes and everything on the Female Hormone Panel blood test on LabCorp an they all came back in range. Estrogen has been routinely fine as well as Free T %. Normal thyroid levels. The only thing that moves around is the T(with good reason). I know everyone says ball size has nothing to do with T level but I feel that it has SOMETHING to do with it.
    I had always heard if PCT didnt work that I was still shutdown and to run more clomid etc. usually people's balls would return but mine never did. That's why I did the HCG HMG protocol and they are back! Maybe NOW the SERMS will raise and KEEP my T levels up because my balls can sustain it? I don't know it's just what I've gathered from reading countless forums for months and months.
    Keep in mind I've stopped the SERMS and T boosters and Im gonna keep to that.
    Im merely trying to explain why I did the things I did.
    Anytime you guys respond it feels great by the way.

  4. Not a sarcastic question or a scare attempt but have you been checked for a Brain Tumor? Im not trying to be Dr House or anything but the zoned out feeling may be something far more severe...
    Google energy levels when you have a brain tumor and click on the link from the brain science foundation, it is an interesting read.
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Not a sarcastic question or a scare attempt but have you been checked for a Brain Tumor? Im not trying to be Dr House or anything but the zoned out feeling may be something far more severe... Google energy levels when you have a brain tumor and click on the link from the brain science foundation, it is an interesting read.
    Yes. Check my post to EASYEJL. I do but it's non functional etc. I explained it in there. I for a while thought that was it but an endocrinologist and 2 different neurologists are against the procedure and don't think it's big enough to effect me. My focus problems are like when you stare at something on a wall and everything becomes kinda hazy like daydreaming. All sounds are kinda muffled. It's sorta like feeling like i need to fall asleep but I don't.They checked my peripherals and said they were fine when it comes to the brain tumor question. Normal cortisol normal prolactin. They don't seem to think its doing anything to me. They said about 10% of people have them and most just don't know it. I mean I felt this way last PCT it's just it went away after PCT
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  6. Im getting bloodwork in a week by the way.
    Would taking a Preworkout before lifting be a good idea to motivate myself now or a bad one?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Im getting bloodwork in a week by the way.
    Would taking a Preworkout before lifting be a good idea to motivate myself now or a bad one?
    No, that's not a good idea. You need some solid detox.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    No, that's not a good idea. You need some solid detox.
    Okay I won't.

  9. Blood test is this week. Gonna get a full hormone panel along with CBC and vitamins etc.

  10. I don't feel any better yet but ill hang in there. Is it normal for balls to change size a bit throughout the day? Like firmness as well and tightness of the scrotum?
    Getting my Testosterone and SHBG tested tomorrow morning and I'm working on getting a full test set up once a week for the next 4 weeks or so before my appointment with my new endo.

  11. Felt a bit better today. Not as anxious more confident. My workout was better. Felt more endurance. Blood results should be in Tuesday.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Felt a bit better today. Not as anxious more confident. My workout was better. Felt more endurance. Blood results should be in Tuesday.
    Good brother. See what happens when you let your body relax? And it has been what? 2 weeks. You will be right as rain in a month
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.
  13. Question


    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Good brother. See what happens when you let your body relax? And it has been what? 2 weeks. You will be right as rain in a month
    Yeah like 10 days haha. First day I noticed an increase in my vertical leap training as well which says either my Test, intensity, or CNS are recovery.. Or all of them.
    I do think that without the HCG I did it would have been a longer wait. They really helped kick my balls back. But resting my body off the supplements is showing to be monumental.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Yeah like 10 days haha. First day I noticed an increase in my vertical leap training as well which says either my Test, intensity, or CNS are recovery.. Or all of them.
    I do think that without the HCG I did it would have been a longer wait. They really helped kick my balls back. But resting my body off the supplements is showing to be monumental.
    Nice, well keep up the positive out look and look at this as a learning experience. Im glad your rebounding so quick. In the future if you do start to take supplements keep in mind that it is not a bad thing to stop talking everything for a bit and let your body go back to just utilizing the food you are eating . Not only is it a healthy thing to do but also you will find that when you start taking the supplements again your body will utilize the nutrients with a higher efficiency. Stay up man!
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  15. A little update, I haven't improved any more sense feeling a bit better last week. Still no sex drive or random erections. Feel very stressed, emotional, fatigued, and just worried overall. Blood tests are taking longer than expected. Haven't been taking any supplements. It feels as if that initial energy burst was from the caffeine withdrawal ending, not from test levels. I feel like I just have no testosterone ever, I just have no aggression confidence will or competitiveness. Its also very hard to have conversations with people because of the fatigue and mental confusion. Thanks

  16. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    A little update, I haven't improved any more sense feeling a bit better last week. Still no sex drive or random erections. Feel very stressed, emotional, fatigued, and just worried overall. Blood tests are taking longer than expected. Haven't been taking any supplements. It feels as if that initial energy burst was from the caffeine withdrawal ending, not from test levels. I feel like I just have no testosterone ever, I just have no aggression confidence will or competitiveness. Its also very hard to have conversations with people because of the fatigue and mental confusion. Thanks
    Let me tell you bro I'm on test myself and its no guarantee of aggression, confidence, competitiveness, or high energy. What you are talking about are mental health issues. Go see an endo then a therapist/psychologist if the endo can't figure it out

    Also cns fatigue is a complete myth
    Independent Review

  17. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Let me tell you bro I'm on test myself and its no guarantee of aggression, confidence, competitiveness, or high energy. What you are talking about are mental health issues. Go see an endo then a therapist/psychologist if the endo can't figure it out

    Also cns fatigue is a complete myth
    What could cause these issues then? I remember my last cycle I felt exactly the same in PCT and got over it after an my testicles swelled up too. This time they haven't swollen as much. Maybe 75-80%.
    One reason I've really thought it was hormone issues is because my test has dropped everytime I discontinue Clomid. I meant 350 isn't enough. I'm 22. I only retain fat like crazy even though my cortisol levels are in range.
    Wouldnt you think that is the issue though? The only reason I'm emotional and everything I feel is because of my hormone issues.
    As for CNS fatigue. It's gotta be real. How else do you explain caffeine tolerance and fatigue after stopping? Also haven't they shown in studies that too much intense exercise causing CNS fatigue?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Let me tell you bro I'm on test myself and its no guarantee of aggression, confidence, competitiveness, or high energy. What you are talking about are mental health issues. Go see an endo then a therapist/psychologist if the endo can't figure it outAlso cns fatigue is a complete myth
    I have seen all of the doctors listed plus a urologist. I don't mean to shut down your response I appreciate the input. I really do. Doesn't like everyone in PCT or with low T have emotional issues? That's what causes their emotional issues as is what I think it's doing to me. I know my body pretty well it really just feels like my body is having great difficulty rebounding and I can't figure out why. There's random spurts of a few minutes where I feel decent and all my emotions, female attributes, worries, stresses, and problems go away and just seem so childish and I feel better. Problem is, it doesn't last it's only for a few minutes at a time.
    I don't get the normal erections daily it has to be self induced. I mean that alone says it right?

  19. Do you have gyno at all? Lactation? Have you grown a vaj?

    Not trying to stir up anything here but I am trying to make a point. Yes your hormones are all over the place because you won't let your body recover on its own naturally. Taking clomid every two or three months will throw the homeostasis of your hormone levels out of wack. YOU are causing yourself to go thru an emotional roller coaster. Also you seem VERY preoccupied with your nuts. You're stressing yourself out man! Over nothing! Who cares how big your nuts are! It seems more like you have body dysmorphia issues more than anything else, maybe manic depressive. Literally every post you center the discussion on the size of your nuts, even the title of the thread. Mental health bro...

    And no, CNS fatigue is a myth
    Independent Review

  20. Manic depression (bipolar disorder) could explain your highs and lows, lack of confidence, motivation issues, drive. It is known to strike adults out of left field and with no warning whatsoever...

    I'm no therapist or doctor but I seriously think you need to see a shrink bro. And be completely honest and open about everything
    Independent Review

  21. I don't want to get you down so I hope I'm not coming off that way. I wish you the best in resolving your issues. Get better bro
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Do you have gyno at all? Lactation? Have you grown a vaj?

    Not trying to stir up anything here but I am trying to make a point. Yes your hormones are all over the place because you won't let your body recover on its own naturally. Taking clomid every two or three months will throw the homeostasis of your hormone levels out of wack. YOU are causing yourself to go thru an emotional roller coaster. Also you seem VERY preoccupied with your nuts. You're stressing yourself out man! Over nothing! Who cares how big your nuts are! It seems more like you have body dysmorphia issues more than anything else, maybe manic depressive. Literally every post you center the discussion on the size of your nuts, even the title of the thread. Mental health bro...

    And no, CNS fatigue is a myth
    Yeah man I know I do stress alot. It's just that its been over a year since I felt normal. I pretty much have been a vaj yeah. I can admit that. It's half because I stress so much but also half because I just don't feel right you know? It's not all in my head because even when I'm in a good mood I don't have the vitality or sense of well being that is normal.
    yes it is my fault for prolonging this. I stupidly kept taking clomid. I'm done taking it though. It's been about 2 weeks or more since I stopped.
    I have slight gyno from my first cycle and only tiny bit of lactation if I mess with them. Which I don't. But I got that after my first cycle and never worried about it so its not causing my feelings.
    I keep bringing up my testicles because its the only physical thing, other than some fat gain, that's different that I normally am. And because my 1st cycle my nuts never shrunk. I personally don't care if they are big. I just thought maybe that was a concern for my T production and because its just the only thing different about my body, like I said.
    I really do stress myself out but I'm so exhausted all the time and don't have life's enthusiam, so it's hard for me to get out of the house and do much. I can't really go socialize because I'm so drained all the time no matter what my sleep is like.
    What is going on with the caffeine withdrawal if its not CNS? How do you explain when your muscles aren't sore anymore but you can't push as much weight?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Manic depression (bipolar disorder) could explain your highs and lows, lack of confidence, motivation issues, drive. It is known to strike adults out of left field and with no warning whatsoever...I'm no therapist or doctor but I seriously think you need to see a shrink bro. And be completely honest and open about everything
    Well I've tried multiple anti depressant medications. None of which did anything. I could feel how it kept me higher, but it didnt help anything else other ham forced smiles I would call it... I'm really not depressed. I can laugh all the time it's just I don't feel the same without my energy and sex drive. It feels like Im trying to do everything on 3 hours of sleep. Just can't focus and don't have the sexual or aggressive tendencies. It's more of constant tiredness not depression. I've created the depression and anxiety as a result of being exhausted and frustrated. That's why the anxiety pills don't help me. They mask the problem instead of addressing the root cause. Also my highs are like 2 minutes a day. It's not a roller coaster. Could you explain how taking clomid or serms can prolong the process? I get that they do. I just want to understand the cause so it will give me more knowledge and for the sake of curiosity.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post

    Yeah man I know I do stress alot. It's just that its been over a year since I felt normal. I pretty much have been a vaj yeah. I can admit that. It's half because I stress so much but also half because I just don't feel right you know? It's not all in my head because even when I'm in a good mood I don't have the vitality or sense of well being that is normal.
    yes it is my fault for prolonging this. I stupidly kept taking clomid. I'm done taking it though. It's been about 2 weeks or more since I stopped.
    I have slight gyno from my first cycle and only tiny bit of lactation if I mess with them. Which I don't. But I got that after my first cycle and never worried about it so its not causing my feelings.
    I keep bringing up my testicles because its the only physical thing, other than some fat gain, that's different that I normally am. And because my 1st cycle my nuts never shrunk. I personally don't care if they are big. I just thought maybe that was a concern for my T production and because its just the only thing different about my body, like I said.
    I really do stress myself out but I'm so exhausted all the time and don't have life's enthusiam, so it's hard for me to get out of the house and do much. I can't really go socialize because I'm so drained all the time no matter what my sleep is like.
    What is going on with the caffeine withdrawal if its not CNS? How do you explain when your muscles aren't sore anymore but you can't push as much weight?
    Whoa there. Lots to address. Testicular size has nothing to do with testosterone production, its a common misconception. Lactation is a big issue you need to address, preferably with a doctor, and tell them about all your hormone cycles and serm cycles. You simply won't "feel right" till this is fixed
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  25. Just imagine how stressed and paranoid you'd feel if you had been in the worst part of your PCT for 14 straight months. You kinda drive yourself crazy. But if you recovered you'd feel fine again

  26. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Whoa there. Lots to address. Testicular size has nothing to do with testosterone production, its a common misconception. Lactation is a big issue you need to address, preferably with a doctor, and tell them about all your hormone cycles and serm cycles. You simply won't "feel right" till this is fixed
    I had my prolactin and estrogen checked and they said it was fine multiple times. I told my doc and they didnt seem to think it was that weird. He said it definitely wasn't normal but I think when they saw prolactin and estrogen in range then they thought it was fine. It's like if I really squeeze it, it has the smallest clear pen point drop of whatever liquid it is. Hopefully milk cause I'm thirsty. I told them I took a supplement that I was pretty positive shut me down. My T tested out around 500 but it was just after clomid and I figured it was starting to drop.
    Also I took pramipexole for a while.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Well I've tried multiple anti depressant medications. None of which did anything. I could feel how it kept me higher, but it didnt help anything else other ham forced smiles I would call it... I'm really not depressed. I can laugh all the time it's just I don't feel the same without my energy and sex drive. It feels like Im trying to do everything on 3 hours of sleep. Just can't focus and don't have the sexual or aggressive tendencies. It's more of constant tiredness not depression. I've created the depression and anxiety as a result of being exhausted and frustrated. That's why the anxiety pills don't help me. They mask the problem instead of addressing the root cause. Also my highs are like 2 minutes a day. It's not a roller coaster. Could you explain how taking clomid or serms can prolong the process? I get that they do. I just want to understand the cause so it will give me more knowledge and for the sake of curiosity.
    I understand what you are saying here. It's ok if you're not ok. Time will mend all things.

    Clomid cycles will mess up your hormones because incidental use of the compound raises test in males WHILE on it. Once you stop taking it your levels will drop somewhat. Your continuous use is causing havoc to your bodies natural production. Over time levels will naturally find a balance unless you have caused permanent damage to your thyroid or testes. You should allow your body at least half a year to try and recover from the abuse you've put it through. The thyroid is a very resilient organ. Testes as well but they may take more time. If your docs can't figure it out, if I were you I would try to stay away from supps for several months then get bloods. If all is still not well I would then try a reboot with some natty test booster and estro management such as DAA + erase pro, or something similar
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  28. It really is a waiting game. It's gonna take considerable time for you to recover unless one of your docs can figure it out
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    I understand what you are saying here. It's ok if you're not ok. Time will mend all things.

    Clomid cycles will mess up your hormones because incidental use of the compound raises test in males WHILE on it. Once you stop taking it your levels will drop somewhat. Your continuous use is causing havoc to your bodies natural production. Over time levels will naturally find a balance unless you have caused permanent damage to your thyroid or testes. You should allow your body at least half a year to try and recover from the abuse you've put it through. The thyroid is a very resilient organ. Testes as well but they may take more time. If your docs can't figure it out, if I were you I would try to stay away from supps for several months then get bloods. If all is still not well I would then try a reboot with some natty test booster and estro management such as DAA + erase pro, or something similar
    Did the cycle affect my thyroid? I think I remember my thyroid was mainly fine but my TSH was slightly high.
    So you're saying clomid will boost it at the beginning of PCT so you don't immediately lose gains but it won't work now because its too late?
    Whats the point in using clomid if your T drops after?

  30. Is it bad if I slightly lactate as I am even if my estrogen and prolactin are in range? How would you even stop it? The prami didnt make me feel any better although it halted the prolactin
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