AI alongside SERM...Good idea or no???

TheBreeze

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Im in the process of putting together a PCT for my upcoming Estane cycle and have run across a question, being, would it be wise to run an AI(Triazole) alongside a SERM(Tamox citrate) for any amount of time or at all for that matter.

My PCT for 4-6 weeks of Estane is as follows:

PCT: D.S. Activate Extreme 4/4/4/4/0/0/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 3/3/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 0/0/3/3/3/3/0/0/3/3/3/3
with either:
Nolva 40/20/10 but tapering down from 40mgs to 10mgs in about 14 days if possible
OR
Torem 90/80/80/60-Im still pretty unsure about Torem dosing as info can be kinda hard to obtain.


My reason behind the above question is, by running a strong AI while also running a SERM would I stand the chance of supressing estrogen too much?
I tried doing a search but that yeilded too many threads which didnt contain the info Im looking for and it was kind of annoying trying to pick through them all:fool2:

Thanks fellas
 
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MakaveliThaDon

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I don't think you would need nolva WITH an AI. If you dose the AI use torem instead of nolva.
 
TheBreeze

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You'll likely not need an AI for a cycle of epi. Though if you want to run one have a look at this thread... specifically post 5. It talks about using AI's in PCT with Epi. It's an older thread, but one of the best out there.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/77359-neoborns-epistane-faq.html
Good link.:yup:

From what I read it seems I would be ok running the two together as long as each was tapered opposite the other.

Im still curious as to why and how much better Id be running Torem over Nolva cause all Ive read is good stuff regarding Torem.

So I am thinking somewhere along the lines of my PCT going :
PCT: D.S. Activate Extreme 4/4/4/4/0/0/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 1/2/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 0/0/3/3/3/3/0/0/3/3/3/3
with either:
Nolva 40/20/10 but tapering down from 40mgs to 10mgs in about 14 days if possible
OR
Torem 90/80/80/60-Im still pretty unsure about Torem dosing as info can be kinda hard to obtain.


Does this sound appropriate?
 

MakaveliThaDon

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Good link.:yup:

From what I read it seems I would be ok running the two together as long as each was tapered opposite the other.

Im still curious as to why and how much better Id be running Torem over Nolva cause all Ive read is good stuff regarding Torem.

So I am thinking somewhere along the lines of my PCT going :
PCT: D.S. Activate Extreme 4/4/4/4/0/0/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 1/2/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 0/0/3/3/3/3/0/0/3/3/3/3
with either:
Nolva 40/20/10 but tapering down from 40mgs to 10mgs in about 14 days if possible
OR
Torem 90/80/80/60-Im still pretty unsure about Torem dosing as info can be kinda hard to obtain.


Does this sound appropriate?
I've taken both before, both will get the job done. They are very different compounds though. Nolva is much more of an anti estrogen, where as torem and clomid for that matter are somewhat both an estrogen antagonist/inhibitor.

That's why I say if you are going to run an AI with it for estrogen, you'd be better off not using the nolva and using the torem instead. If you are not gonna use the AI then it's really personal choice between the two.
 
TheBreeze

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I've taken both before, both will get the job done. They are very different compounds though. Nolva is much more of an anti estrogen, where as torem and clomid for that matter are somewhat both an estrogen antagonist/inhibitor.

That's why I say if you are going to run an AI with it for estrogen, you'd be better off not using the nolva and using the torem instead. If you are not gonna use the AI then it's really personal choice between the two.
It sounds to me like I should use Torem then cause I want to run the DS stack the way its designed.

Thanks
 
BigBlackGuy

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It sounds to me like I should use Torem then cause I want to run the DS stack the way its designed.

Thanks
Torem also directly stimulates LH and FSH, does not lower GH and IGF-1 and it's also known for increasing libido a ton during PCT. Significantly less toxic as well.
 
TheBreeze

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Torem also directly stimulates LH and FSH, does not lower GH and IGF-1 and it's also known for increasing libido a ton during PCT. Significantly less toxic as well.
That's good to hear, cause I kinda want to run Torem instead anyways just due to my first and only run with Tamox.

If I were to go the Torem route, would the above dosing scheme suffice? Or should I start at 120mgs for 2-3 days then 90 for 4-5 days then 60 for 2 weeks and finish up with 30 for a week, and honestly, these doses are right off the top of my head and its about 12:15am and I just go home from work so I might be a little off.:tired:

Anyways, I am ridiculously stoked to get this Epi in my system and start seeing the BF fall off like it did with H-drol for my first ever cycle. And that was kinda poorly planned as well, so I have high expectations for this cycle which will be #3 for me.
 
BigBlackGuy

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90/60/60/30 should be good for Torem, if you want to keep it a bit higher, 120/90/60/30 can be used as well.
 
TheBreeze

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Very good link CopyCat. That was highly informative as well as easy to understand.

Honestly, I think I am gonna go with the Torem simply due to the lower possibility for negative sides. Now I just hope my supplier is legit.

Also in going with the Torem I think I will stick with one of the more common dosing schemes of 120-3, 90-4/60/60/30. And if I were to run the Estane for 6 weeks total would I still be safe with these dosages?

As I said the other day, I am getting more and more excited to start this cycle with every passing day. So I want to make sure I have everything all set prior to popping that first little white capsule.

Thanks
 
TheBreeze

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After a considerable amount of time and reading I believe I have come across my final set of for my Estane cycle. It is as follows:

Preload: x 2 weeks
Hawthorne Berry
Milk Thistle

Cycle:
Cycle Assist as directed throughout time ON
Estane 30/40/40/40-possible 40/40 if sides:gains are tolerable
Fish Oil 5-10g ED
MultiVitamin 1 tablet ED
MiraLAX 1-2 capfulls/day(cause I get very constipated on CA)

PCT:
D.S. Activate Extreme 4/4/4/4/0/0/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 1/2/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 0/0/3/3/3/3/0/0/3/3/3/3
Torem 120-3, 90-4/60/60/30


Does this sound adequate to those of you who are far more experience than myself?

I am EXTREMELY excited to get this mo-fo underway cause I DO NOT like what I see in the mirror lately.:head::head::dance:
 

ssbackwards

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You'll likely not need an AI for a cycle of epi. Though if you want to run one have a look at this thread... specifically post 5. It talks about using AI's in PCT with Epi. It's an older thread, but one of the best out there.

[
actually.... technically you would... if youve seen some of the blood work on epi it looks like estro sides are suppressed, but numbers remain high meaning binding affinity is there, but ability to reduce is not. so its SERM like not AI like. as most would say from studies in japan.

with that said i would use an AI the middle weeks of the SERM to reduce "rebound" and estadiol levels Nolva doesnt reduce estradiol, but reduces estrong sulphate which has a long halflife and long after cycles over converts to estradiol hence rebound gyno... which doesnt occuer from strictly AI use.
.
 
TheBreeze

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[
actually.... technically you would... if youve seen some of the blood work on epi it looks like estro sides are suppressed, but numbers remain high meaning binding affinity is there, but ability to reduce is not. so its SERM like not AI like. as most would say from studies in japan.

with that said i would use an AI the middle weeks of the SERM to reduce "rebound" and estadiol levels Nolva doesnt reduce estradiol, but reduces estrong sulphate which has a long halflife and long after cycles over converts to estradiol hence rebound gyno... which doesnt occuer from strictly AI use.
.
So what are recommending is wait a week or so before starting the AI?

And concerning estrogen rebound, I should be ok cause I'll keep the AI around for 12 weeks post cycle, correct?
 
mich29

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unless your prone to gyno I don't see a need for an ai. I'd run femara or forma stanzol if you have to run an ai on cycle.
 
TheBreeze

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To be honest, IDK if Im gyno prone but I have had prolactin issues in the past which have improve greatly over the past few years, but either way, I definitely dont want any gyno popping up. Im already super self conscious about my body the way it is.

As for the AI, to my understanding an aromatize inhibitor is mainly to prevent testosterone from being converted into estrogen, am I wrong? Im not saying this to be a jerk but rather to better understand what will be going into my body.
 
TheBreeze

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unless your prone to gyno I don't see a need for an ai. I'd run femara or forma stanzol if you have to run an ai on cycle.
My bad Mich29 I misread your post. I was not planning to run the AI while ON cycle but only during PCT along with Torem.

I will also use this post to 'bump' this thread for more confirmation or question to my PCT.

:bigok:
 

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