Epi(Estane) PCT for review or improvement

TheBreeze

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I have 2 unopened bottles of CEL Estane Ive been planning on running now for quite some time. I been reading up for a while on SERMS but am still unsure of which to use.
I have about 4/5 bottle of Tamox citrate if needed but am kind of leaning towards Torem citrate if I can obtain the needed info and confidence to try it.

Anyways, the plan for the cycle is as follows:

Preload:
Milk Thistle 2000mg & 1210mg ED for 2 weeks

Cycle:
Estane 30-40/40/40/40 with possibility of 5th-6th week depending on sides:gains
Cycle Assist as directed on bottle

PCT: D.S. Activate Extreme 0/0/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 4/4/4/4/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 3/3/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
with either:
Nolva 40/20/10 but tapering down from 40mgs to 10mgs in about 14 days if possible
OR
Torem 90/80/80/60-Im still pretty unsure about Torem dosing as info can be kinda hard to obtain.

Im trying to use the least amount of SERM possible simply b/c they kinda worry me and Im a little uneasy about the Nolva after my most previous PCT in which I was more angry than Id ever been in my life.

The reason for the 12 weeks of the DS stack is mostly so I can keep the gains coming for some time post PCT while continuing to make better gains than totally natty.

As of right now all I am in need of is a bottle of Torem citrate should I choose that as my go to SERM.

Also I only dont have a whole bottle of Cycle assist but do have plenty of milk thistle and hawthrone berry on hand. Would I be ok to use that up before starting the CA? If so, should I run CA or the generics first??

If anyone has any solid advice please post away. Thanks, and your input is appreciated in advance.
 
warbird01

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would take out triazole and run nolva 20/20/10/10/10
start the lean xtreme in week 3

besides that, looks good. save the triazole for after the cycle and pct
 
TheBreeze

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would take out triazole and run nolva 20/20/10/10/10
start the lean xtreme in week 3

besides that, looks good. save the triazole for after the cycle and pct
What is your reasoning behind nixing the Triazole and using Nolva instead? Is it cause nolva is a strong enough AI on its own, cause I believe I may have read that somewhere but Im not 100%.

Just curious

Thanks
 
warbird01

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yeah if you run both you it could lead to suppressing too much estrogen then getting a rebound when you discontinue the supps. Also if you run it off cycle you will get a better bang for you buck, because of all the supps you are running right now and diminishing returns.
 
TheBreeze

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yeah if you run both you it could lead to suppressing too much estrogen then getting a rebound when you discontinue the supps. Also if you run it off cycle you will get a better bang for you buck, because of all the supps you are running right now and diminishing returns.
Regarding too much estrogen suppression, I am clear. Do you think Id be okay to run the same PCT without the Triazole while using Nolva, obviously, and stopping after 4-6 weeks?

Also, should I begin the AX at week 1 or rather leave the test boosting to the nolva for 2 weeks?
 
warbird01

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Regarding too much estrogen suppression, I am clear. Do you think Id be okay to run the same PCT without the Triazole while using Nolva, obviously, and stopping after 4-6 weeks?

Also, should I begin the AX at week 1 or rather leave the test boosting to the nolva for 2 weeks?
yeah, run everything exept the triazol.

start AX on day 1.
 
TheBreeze

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Thanks Warbird. At this point I have your most recent opinion as well as the suggestion to wait until Nolva dosage is down to 20 to start Triazole.

I think I want a few more opinions though to be honest. Nothing against either thought, but Id like to know if anyone has ever ran a strong AI along side a SERM with any success.
 
warbird01

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no offense taken. good luck
 
TheBreeze

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For continuation of the topic of AI's alongside a SERM click here for my more dedicated post
 
TheBreeze

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I think Ive finally figured out my Estane PCT. It is as follows:

Preload: x 2 weeks
Hawthorne Berry
Milk Thistle

Cycle:
Cycle Assist as directed throughout time ON
Estane 30/40/40/40-possible 40/40 if sides:gains are tolerable
Fish Oil 5-10g ED
MultiVitamin 1 tablet ED
MiraLAX 1-2 capfulls/day(cause I get very constipated on CA)

PCT:
D.S. Activate Extreme 4/4/4/4/0/0/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 1/2/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 0/0/3/3/3/3/0/0/3/3/3/3
Torem 120-3, 90-4/60/60/30

Let me know what you guys with more experience think. I appreciate the input, cause honestly, as soon as I feel my PCT setup is sufficient I plan on beginning the preload phase of this cycle.
 

liftsalot

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I think Ive finally figured out my Estane PCT. It is as follows:

Preload: x 2 weeks
Hawthorne Berry
Milk Thistle

Cycle:
Cycle Assist as directed throughout time ON
Estane 30/40/40/40-possible 40/40 if sides:gains are tolerable
Fish Oil 5-10g ED
MultiVitamin 1 tablet ED
MiraLAX 1-2 capfulls/day(cause I get very constipated on CA)

PCT:
D.S. Activate Extreme 4/4/4/4/0/0/4/4/4/4/0/0
D.S Triazole 1/2/3/3/0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
D.S. Lean Xtreme 0/0/3/3/3/3/0/0/3/3/3/3
Torem 120-3, 90-4/60/60/30

Let me know what you guys with more experience think. I appreciate the input, cause honestly, as soon as I feel my PCT setup is sufficient I plan on beginning the preload phase of this cycle.
Have you taken estane before bro? Just couriouse if thats why your jumping up to 40mg so fast. With epi i dont know if i would go 6 weeks eiather i would go 5 max especially since your jumping up to 40 so fast. I agree with warbird for epi i would take the triazole out and use nolva instead of torem. Just my opinion but to each there own lol looks good though bro when you gonna start your cycle.
 
TheBreeze

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Have you taken estane before bro? Just couriouse if thats why your jumping up to 40mg so fast. With epi i dont know if i would go 6 weeks eiather i would go 5 max especially since your jumping up to 40 so fast. I agree with warbird for epi i would take the triazole out and use nolva instead of torem. Just my opinion but to each there own lol looks good though bro when you gonna start your cycle.
The reason for hitting 40 so quick is mainly because thats were everyone says the sweet spot is. I guess I could see how I feel on 30 for a while and gauge increases from there. I would like to sit at 40 for at least 2 weeks though.

For the SERM you agree with Warbird that Nolva is more of an anti-E than Torem so I should wait with the Triazole and start it maybe in the second phase of the DS stack?
 
TheBreeze

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Second question, if I were to save the torem and use nolva, would 40/20/20/10 work alright? And in the case of using nolva instead, youre saying it'd be wise to completely eliminate the Triazola while running nolva?

Lastly, in the interest of running the DS stack as designed, would I be safe in adding Triazole back into the mix after 5-6 weeks? 5-6 weeks would give me 1-2 weeks of being off nolva before adding another AI.


Thanks again guys, I know I could never do this without the help everyone here puts in.
 
TheBreeze

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So after a bit more research and questioning I feel I have finally gotten the solid answer I was looking for.

PCT will follow something very close to:

Tamoxifen: 20/20/10/10
Triazole: 0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
ActX: 4/4/4/4/0/0/0/0/4/4/4/4

I still have a PM out to my new buddy at DS regarding the addition of Lean Xtreme as well as any additional Triazole after the first bottle is done.

I think Im officially gonna start the pre load phase of this cycle in the morning. :veryhappy:
 

liftsalot

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So after a bit more research and questioning I feel I have finally gotten the solid answer I was looking for.

PCT will follow something very close to:

Tamoxifen: 20/20/10/10
Triazole: 0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
ActX: 4/4/4/4/0/0/0/0/4/4/4/4

I still have a PM out to my new buddy at DS regarding the addition of Lean Xtreme as well as any additional Triazole after the first bottle is done.

I think Im officially gonna start the pre load phase of this cycle in the morning. :veryhappy:
Looks good Bro I still say you probably don't need the triazole but if you already have it on hand couldn't hurt I guess. You just don't want to have to many AI's you know. Let us know how it goes
 
TheBreeze

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Looks good Bro I still say you probably don't need the triazole but if you already have it on hand couldn't hurt I guess. You just don't want to have to many AI's you know. Let us know how it goes
Thanks for the advice.

I should be ok IMO with regards to the AI issue since I wont start the Triazole untill Im thru with the Nolva.

Also, lean xtreme wasnt mentioned in the above post but it will be started the beginning of week 3 and run as directed.

Im also kinda mad at myself for not starting to preload earlier cause now that everythings finalized in stone I still gotta wait another 10 days for my first dose of Epi. :(
 

liftsalot

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Thanks for the advice.

I should be ok IMO with regards to the AI issue since I wont start the Triazole untill Im thru with the Nolva.

Also, lean xtreme wasnt mentioned in the above post but it will be started the beginning of week 3 and run as directed.

Im also kinda mad at myself for not starting to preload earlier cause now that everythings finalized in stone I still gotta wait another 10 days for my first dose of Epi. :(
I know the feeling dude i freaking hate waiting. Ya thats a good point that they wont be run at the same time the AI's that is. Thats probably a good idea now that i think about it more epi is strong no matter what you hear. I actually got a mild case of gyno from epi and a poorly planned otc pct so ive been done with cycles for a while. I want to run of cycle of h-drol bad but i guess wouldnt be a good idea, its not very noticable just a lump on the right side you can tell if your looking for it but i guess not worth agravating it any further.
 
TheBreeze

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I know the feeling dude i freaking hate waiting. Ya thats a good point that they wont be run at the same time the AI's that is. Thats probably a good idea now that i think about it more epi is strong no matter what you hear. I actually got a mild case of gyno from epi and a poorly planned otc pct so ive been done with cycles for a while. I want to run of cycle of h-drol bad but i guess wouldnt be a good idea, its not very noticable just a lump on the right side you can tell if your looking for it but i guess not worth agravating it any further.
Ouch. :tragedy: Sorry to hear about your gyno. I dont honestly know exactly what I'd do if my nips started itching or hurting. I mean, Im already ridiculously self conscious about my body now. I cant imagine adding gyno on top of that. So you can rest assured I'll be saying plenty of prayers that I stay safe...no matter how the cycle turns out.

If you dont mind me asking, how long was the cycle you developed your gyno from? And what were your doses? And I don't mean this negatively in any way, but maybe I could learn and possibly benefit from your misfortune. So if you know much about how to avoid from having the same problem, I would gladly listen.
 

liftsalot

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Ouch. :tragedy: Sorry to hear about your gyno. I dont honestly know exactly what I'd do if my nips started itching or hurting. I mean, Im already ridiculously self conscious about my body now. I cant imagine adding gyno on top of that. So you can rest assured I'll be saying plenty of prayers that I stay safe...no matter how the cycle turns out.

If you dont mind me asking, how long was the cycle you developed your gyno from? And what were your doses? And I don't mean this negatively in any way, but maybe I could learn and possibly benefit from your misfortune. So if you know much about how to avoid from having the same problem, I would gladly listen.
It was a 5 week cycle i ran started it at 20/30/30/40/40 didnt have any problems during cycle but after my pct is when i saw it. I lost about half my gains, my pct was all otc stuff so i think ill be a firm beliver in SERMS from now on. I used puras labs recycle and PCS and lean extreme. I had heard from a buddy of mine that a AI wasnt nessesary because of havoc being a natural AI. I had troble obtaining a serm so i went OTC. Never had any symtoms of gyno eiather so thats what was weird never had the iching nipples or nipple soreness none of that. I was looking in the mirror one day and relized one pec was bigger than the other. I think your pct looks good though looks like the pct i should have run lol good luck bro. So you think it whould be a bad idea for me to do another cycle?? I have nolva now.
 
TheBreeze

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It was a 5 week cycle i ran started it at 20/30/30/40/40 didnt have any problems during cycle but after my pct is when i saw it. I lost about half my gains, my pct was all otc stuff so i think ill be a firm beliver in SERMS from now on. I used puras labs recycle and PCS and lean extreme. I had heard from a buddy of mine that a AI wasnt nessesary because of havoc being a natural AI. I had troble obtaining a serm so i went OTC. Never had any symtoms of gyno eiather so thats what was weird never had the iching nipples or nipple soreness none of that. I was looking in the mirror one day and relized one pec was bigger than the other. I think your pct looks good though looks like the pct i should have run lol good luck bro. So you think it whould be a bad idea for me to do another cycle?? I have nolva now.

Sounds like you had a heck of a run with Epi. Im hopin and prayin mine goes according to plan.

But you said you never had ANY symptoms of gyno? No soreness, itching, or swelling at all? After all this time, do you have any pain at this time?

As far as another cycle for you goes, I dont really have an opinion cause I honestly dont know what I would do if I noticed any gyno problems so I dont wanna tell you to do something I might not do myself. Sorry :(
 

rudeboy34

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Sounds Good

So after a bit more research and questioning I feel I have finally gotten the solid answer I was looking for.

PCT will follow something very close to:

Tamoxifen: 20/20/10/10
Triazole: 0/0/0/0/3/3/3/3
ActX: 4/4/4/4/0/0/0/0/4/4/4/4

I still have a PM out to my new buddy at DS regarding the addition of Lean Xtreme as well as any additional Triazole after the first bottle is done.

I think Im officially gonna start the pre load phase of this cycle in the morning. :veryhappy:
 

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