cortisol blocker necessary for hdrol PCT?

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    Question cortisol blocker necessary for hdrol PCT?


    Is a cortisol blocker necessary for a hdrol cycle? and if so, why?

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    not if youre doing about 50 mg's a day. However, I heard people taking 100 mg's need it.
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    nothing besides a SERM is needed really (if you are trying to run a pct on the cheap)

    but the point of pct is try to try keep all your gains so ppl like to do everything possible to do that (add test booster and cort control)
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    Its not required but if you decide to tackle this issue, it will help tremendously in your efforts to retain most of your gains. Endoamp Max and Ibcaa's are my 2 go to supps to combat cortisol.
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    ive seen literally NO evidence for cortisol blockers helping in pct

    anecdotal perhaps, but actual bloods... noop
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    use vitamin c if u dont wanna spend more money... high cortisol can mean low test
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    I have some experience in using glucocorticoids and antiglucorticoids along with AAS. At one point I have even used mifepristone (which acts as a competitive antagonist of the glucocorticoid receptor) to restore my cortisol levels after heavy corticosteroid use. ACTH levels were off the chart. I overlapped this with PCT just to see if the cortisol control theory had any merit. I noticed absolutely no change (positive or negative) in recovery during PCT even after using such a powerful antiglucocorticoid.
    HDrol is not very suppressive and if you work as hard as you did on cycle and use a SERM conservatively, I think you should keep most of your gains. You shouldn't really need any test boosters (with a SERM your test levels should be back to normal in a couple of weeks tops) etc for a mild cycle like this IMO.
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    I am about to start a Hdrol cycle and was gonna run it 75/75/75/75/100 then for pct run nolva 20/20/10/10 with pct revolution (cels pct assist is back ordered). Does that sound like a sufficient enough pct? Anyone have any experience with pct revolution?
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    Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    I am about to start a Hdrol cycle and was gonna run it 75/75/75/75/100 then for pct run nolva 20/20/10/10 with pct revolution (cels pct assist is back ordered). Does that sound like a sufficient enough pct? Anyone have any experience with pct revolution?
    sounds good. never heard of that test booster sorry
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    should I use a test booster or is that just going to keep messing with my natural production instead of letting my body take back over to its natural state
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    Might I recomment staying under 200mg of caffein per serving as well?

    I've always had this superstition that anything over that can result in unwanted rises in cortisol, ever since I read a few articles about it. Worth a shot.

    And I've always been a fan of Iforce's Reversitol V2.
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    Cortisol will compete with Testosterone. Imo, you want to dampen the presence of Cortisol, its a safe bet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rulk22 View Post
    Cortisol will compete with Testosterone. Imo, you want to dampen the presence of Cortisol, its a safe bet.
    To put it a better way...you want to regulate cortisol and keep it balanced. You do not want to crush cortisol and have it too low because then it could cause some potential disturbances in your mental functioning. Particularly, you would be more prone to displaying bi-polar type behavior and if that was to go on for too long then you would have a reverse reaction with cortisol as in it would skyrocket to compensate for the roller coaster effect of your moods...think of it as your body would be course correcting itself.

    Cheers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Might I recomment staying under 200mg of caffein per serving as well?

    I've always had this superstition that anything over that can result in unwanted rises in cortisol, ever since I read a few articles about it. Worth a shot.

    And I've always been a fan of Iforce's Reversitol V2.
    This thinking is actually wrong. Caffeine will increase the release of FFA into the blood. As a result, cortisol will also be released to seek out substrate.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    This thinking is actually wrong. Caffeine will increase the release of FFA into the blood. As a result, cortisol will also be released to seek out substrate.
    So you're saying this rise in cortisol isn't actually harmful?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    So you're saying this rise in cortisol isn't actually harmful?
    In this instance, no. However, there is obviously a point of diminishing returns regarding stims, FFA, and cortisol.
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    no, let the cortisol eat all the muscle you gained on cycle
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by rulk22 View Post
    Cortisol will compete with Testosterone. Imo, you want to dampen the presence of Cortisol, its a safe bet.
    EndoAmp anyone?
    Just inject.
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    or vitamin C lol.... NO NEED TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY BRO... GOOGLE VITAMIN C AND CORTISOL
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Lot's of good input in this post.... I've run hdrol a few times with diff. pct each time...My experience, cortisol supp = waste of $...

    I like just nolva or clomi, and Recycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    or vitamin C lol.... NO NEED TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY BRO... GOOGLE VITAMIN C AND CORTISOL


    I use both Vitamin C and EndoAmp, and can honestly state I wouldn't consider one without the other.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    EndoAmp anyone?
    Yes "this guy". Endoamp max for the stressed out individuals is a blessing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post


    I use both Vitamin C and EndoAmp, and can honestly state I wouldn't consider one without the other,because i am a rep... and i dont care about this guy spending his money.

    had to fix that for ya
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    had to fix that for ya
    Had the product been inefficient at doing the job, it wouldn't have grown to become one of our most enjoyed supplements.

    -SerinAde® :
    Improvement in key brain functions, including memory, concentration, learning, recall, and focus.

    Prevention of memory loss, especially age-related cognitive decline.
    Reduction of elevated cortisol levels and reduction of stress.
    Improvement in athletic activities including running, weightlifting, and golf.
    Helps reduce fatigue, reduces muscle soreness, and hastens recovery, in active and athletic individuals.
    -AlphaSize®
    Improvement in key brain functions, including memory, concentration, learning, recall, and focus.
    Useful in combating dementias and various forms of cognitive decline.
    Promotes formation of acetylcholine (AC), a vital neurotransmitter compound involved in all key brain functions and mental sharpness.
    Helps speed cell to cell communication through neuromuscular optimization, providing enhanced muscular power output and agility for active and athletic individuals.
    Physiological production and maintenance of human growth hormone (HGH), the body’s master hormone for maintaining youth, vitality, and body composition.
    Your vitamin C doing all of this?
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    Had the product been inefficient at doing the job, it wouldn't have grown to become one of our most enjoyed supplements.

    -SerinAde® :


    -AlphaSize®


    let me guess, your a rep for the product your trying to push? oh yeah thats right... anyone can make claims


    Your vitamin C doing all of this?

    without vitamin c, you die...

    is your endo amp doing that?

    btw.. vitamin c is way cheaper... and very effective

    The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and ELISA procedures. Forty-five participants in the 1999 Comrades 90 km marathon were divided into equal groups (n = 15) receiving 500 mg/day Vit C (VC-500), 1500 mg/day Vit C (VC-1500) or placebo (P) for 7 days before the race, on the day of the race, and for 2 days following completion. Runners recorded dietary intake before, during and after the race and provided 35 ml blood samples 15 - 18 hrs before the race, immediately post-race, 24 hrs post race and 48 hrs post-race. Twenty-nine runners (VC-1500, n = 12; VC-500, n = 10; P, n = 7) complied with all study requirements. All post-race concentrations were adjusted for plasma volume changes. Analyses of dietary intakes and blood glucose and anti-oxidant status on the day preceding the race and the day of the race did not reveal that carbohydrate intake or plasma vitamins E and A were significant confounders in the study. Mean pre-race concentrations of serum vitamin C in VC-500 and VC-1500 groups (128 +/- 31 and 153 +/- 34 micromol/l) were significantly higher than in the P group (83 +/- 39 micromol/l). Immediate post-race serum cortisol was significantly lower in the VC-1500 group (p < 0.05) than in P and VC-500 groups. When the data from VC-500 and P groups was combined (n = 17), immediate post-race plasma adrenaline, IL-10 and IL-1Ra concentrations were also significantly lower (p < 0.05) in the VC-1500 group. The study demonstrates an attenuation, albeit transient, of both the adrenal stress hormone and anti-inflammatory polypeptide response to prolonged exercise in runners who supplemented with 1500 mg vitamin C per day when compared to < or = 500 mg per day.

    Oh and btw.. i have read a study about Phosphatidyl Serine, what strays me from it (your product) is the price...

    endoamp 52 dollars on your site

    vitamin c is 6 dollars..

    Phosphatidyl Serine tabs can be found for 16 bucks as well...

    but vitamin c, is really imo all that is needed for cortisol suppression during/after pct

    im done, but SICK job with the hype bro
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    endoamp 52 dollars on your site

    but vitamin c, is really imo all that is needed for cortisol suppression during/after pct
    Endoamp is more than just a cortisol blocker. It raises mental acuity through A-GPC and also increase GH and IGF-1. These are two hormones that are specfically lowered by the most commonly used SERMs and AIs. Endoamp is more than just cortisol control.

    Vitamin C is a great vitamin, but it can only do so much. I don't remember the last time someone was willing to spring for Primo, but was too cheap to buy a decent PCT product
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    primo isnt expensive, as a matter of fact, its around the same price as endoamp per 20ml vial...

    another rep... you didnt used to be did you?

    all i was saying is that serm plus test booster ai already puts people over 100 bucks for pct... thats already more than the hdrol in this case costs and for sure more than people are usually willing to spend..... all im saying is that endoamp may have its place in cortisol control, and may do a good job at it...

    if vitamin c suppresses cortisol (----) this much
    & endoamp suppresses cortisol (-----) this much... why spend so much extra cash? because of the nice label ?

    if it does, what ingredient in your product is proven to increase igf1 and gh


    and btw... i am not cheap when it comes to cycles or training at all... i get bloodwork, i use serms, and PROVEN test boosters i use tudca or udca AND your liver juice lv (this is worth the money)
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    without vitamin c, you die...

    is your endo amp doing that?

    btw.. vitamin c is way cheaper... and very effective
    I never stated not to use Vitamin C, I stated both are a perfect combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and ELISA procedures. Forty-five participants in the 1999 Comrades 90 km marathon were divided into equal groups (n = 15) receiving 500 mg/day Vit C (VC-500), 1500 mg/day Vit C (VC-1500) or placebo (P) for 7 days before the race, on the day of the race, and for 2 days following completion. Runners recorded dietary intake before, during and after the race and provided 35 ml blood samples 15 - 18 hrs before the race, immediately post-race, 24 hrs post race and 48 hrs post-race. Twenty-nine runners (VC-1500, n = 12; VC-500, n = 10; P, n = 7) complied with all study requirements. All post-race concentrations were adjusted for plasma volume changes. Analyses of dietary intakes and blood glucose and anti-oxidant status on the day preceding the race and the day of the race did not reveal that carbohydrate intake or plasma vitamins E and A were significant confounders in the study. Mean pre-race concentrations of serum vitamin C in VC-500 and VC-1500 groups (128 +/- 31 and 153 +/- 34 micromol/l) were significantly higher than in the P group (83 +/- 39 micromol/l). Immediate post-race serum cortisol was significantly lower in the VC-1500 group (p < 0.05) than in P and VC-500 groups. When the data from VC-500 and P groups was combined (n = 17), immediate post-race plasma adrenaline, IL-10 and IL-1Ra concentrations were also significantly lower (p < 0.05) in the VC-1500 group. The study demonstrates an attenuation, albeit transient, of both the adrenal stress hormone and anti-inflammatory polypeptide response to prolonged exercise in runners who supplemented with 1500 mg vitamin C per day when compared to < or = 500 mg per day.
    I don't doubt there are 100s of studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, again I advocate taking it year round. So thanks for the information, but I am already convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    Oh and btw.. i have read a study about Phosphatidyl Serine, what strays me from it (your product) is the price...

    endoamp 52 dollars on your site

    vitamin c is 6 dollars..

    Phosphatidyl Serine tabs can be found for 16 bucks as well...
    If you are ok from sourcing from an unknown, with limited purity guarantee, then I would go for the price as well, certainly attractive. Im much happier knowing mine is using a ChemiNutra sourced product. Some are willing to pay for quality, and quality is something we pride ourselves in.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    but vitamin c, is really imo all that is needed for cortisol suppression during/after pct
    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    im done, but SICK job with the hype bro
    What hype? Those quotations were taken directly from ChemiNutra, not Primordial. Their patented ingredients that we utilized are very highly regarded, so I think their company is allowed to brag alittle bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    all i was saying is that serm plus test booster ai already puts people over 100 bucks for pct... thats already more than the hdrol in this case costs and for sure more than people are usually willing to spend..... all im saying is that endoamp may have its place in cortisol control, and may do a good job at it...
    If you think that PCT shouldn't cost more than a PH in the 25-40 range, then you don't regard your health with as much concern as most would advocate. I am willing to spend what I need to on a PCT. And since based on your current attitude presented towards me being affiliated with the company, I will state I had used it previous to the position with my own money, and the position became available to me after I had become quite acquainted with the products.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    if vitamin c suppresses cortisol (----) this much
    & endoamp suppresses cortisol (-----) this much... why spend so much extra cash? because of the nice label ?
    I do believe, although I may be mistaken, that we did post numerous reasons that EndoAmp is an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    if it does, what ingredient in your product is proven to increase igf1 and gh
    In addition to its applications for memory and cerebrovascular health, Alpha-GPC may also help promote healthy levels of growth hormone. Here's how it works. Consider that anticholinergic drugs have been shown to diminish GH response, while drugs able to increase acetylcholine transmission are able to potentiate the stimulatory effect of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH)[ix] [x] by decreasing the release of somatostatin (a hormone that inhibits GH release). With aging, the imbalance between stimulatory (GHRH) and inhibitory (somatostatin) activities on GH secretion leads to an enhanced somatostatin action and decreased GH release.

    In clinical research, GHRH was given to eight young and seven old human volunteers, with or without the addition of alpha-GPC. The results were that alpha-GPC successfully potentiated the stimulatory effect of GHRH on GH secretion in both young and old subjects.4 In a follow-up study, alpha-GPC was tested in 10 normal elderly subjects (aged 79.4 ± 1.7 years). The subjects were given GHRH with alpha-GPC. The results demonstrated that when alpha-GPC was administered with GHRH, the GH responses were significantly higher than those found after GHRH alone.[xi] The results of these two studies show that alpha-GPC is able to help promote GH release in both young and old. [Source]

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1577400

    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15


    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    and btw... i am not cheap when it comes to cycles or training at all... i get bloodwork, i use serms, and PROVEN test boosters i use tudca or udca AND your liver juice lv (this is worth the money)
    I thank you for being a customer of ours and, like me, enjoying the use of our Liver Juice. However there must be a reason you are willing to pay for the quality of Liver Juice over a generic milk thistle product. Most likely because you want the supplement do perform as best as possible and as effectively as possible, and that is what I am saying that EndoAmp offers over standard Vitamin C Supplementation.

    Also, thanks for accusing me of hype marketing, but that is simply not the case. If anyone has been able to prolong the discussion of this product, it has been you challenging it and or asking questions. I simply provided the responses.
    Just inject.
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    Been using vit C for years, however there are too many OTHER benefits from EndoAmp to not be utilized in PCT. fwiw

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    Jesus swollen87 are you capable of posting without starting an argument?
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    I myself and I think others are NOT convinced or swayed one bit by Swolen87's point. You can get plenty of vit C in your diet, although I still supplement with it, but good luck trying to get enough of whats in Endoamp Max in your daily diet.
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    hey I was about to run a hdrol cycle at 50/75/75/75/100 and for pct was going to use nolva 20/20/10/10 with AI pct assist.. should I be incorporating other products into this pct? This is my first cycle and im unsure of whether or not that covers all my bases, just want to be safe rather than sorry
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    Quote Originally Posted by rulk22 View Post
    I myself and I think others are NOT convinced or swayed one bit by Swolen87's point. You can get plenty of vit C in your diet, although I still supplement with it, but good luck trying to get enough of whats in Endoamp Max in your daily diet.

    this is exactly what i would say if i was a rep.....

    im done... im not going to argue with 5 reps from your company...

    here is my point.....90% of the non hormonal supplements on these forums are crap and a total waste of money imo.... all im trying to say, is that for a cost/benefit ratio, i think ill stick with the cheaper of the two........

    bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by leet2010 View Post
    hey I was about to run a hdrol cycle at 50/75/75/75/100 and for pct was going to use nolva 20/20/10/10 with AI pct assist.. should I be incorporating other products into this pct? This is my first cycle and im unsure of whether or not that covers all my bases, just want to be safe rather than sorry
    Does H-drol Aromatize? Im a little new to this, and curious as to why you are adding it to your cycle.
  35. Primordial Performance Rep
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    You could feel free to respond to me. I actually welcome it after throwing in that last bit about worthless supplements, but cowardly not responding to a post i made concerning the effectiveness you eagerly doubt.
    Just inject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereToStudy View Post
    I never stated not to use Vitamin C, I stated both are a perfect combo.


    I don't doubt there are 100s of studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, again I advocate taking it year round. So thanks for the information, but I am already convinced.



    If you are ok from sourcing from an unknown, with limited purity guarantee, then I would go for the price as well, certainly attractive. Im much happier knowing mine is using a ChemiNutra sourced product. Some are willing to pay for quality, and quality is something we pride ourselves in.





    What hype? Those quotations were taken directly from ChemiNutra, not Primordial. Their patented ingredients that we utilized are very highly regarded, so I think their company is allowed to brag alittle bit.



    If you think that PCT shouldn't cost more than a PH in the 25-40 range, then you don't regard your health with as much concern as most would advocate. I am willing to spend what I need to on a PCT. And since based on your current attitude presented towards me being affiliated with the company, I will state I had used it previous to the position with my own money, and the position became available to me after I had become quite acquainted with the products.


    I do believe, although I may be mistaken, that we did post numerous reasons that EndoAmp is an advantage.



    In addition to its applications for memory and cerebrovascular health, Alpha-GPC may also help promote healthy levels of growth hormone. Here's how it works. Consider that anticholinergic drugs have been shown to diminish GH response, while drugs able to increase acetylcholine transmission are able to potentiate the stimulatory effect of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH)[ix] [x] by decreasing the release of somatostatin (a hormone that inhibits GH release). With aging, the imbalance between stimulatory (GHRH) and inhibitory (somatostatin) activities on GH secretion leads to an enhanced somatostatin action and decreased GH release.

    In clinical research, GHRH was given to eight young and seven old human volunteers, with or without the addition of alpha-GPC. The results were that alpha-GPC successfully potentiated the stimulatory effect of GHRH on GH secretion in both young and old subjects.4 In a follow-up study, alpha-GPC was tested in 10 normal elderly subjects (aged 79.4 ± 1.7 years). The subjects were given GHRH with alpha-GPC. The results demonstrated that when alpha-GPC was administered with GHRH, the GH responses were significantly higher than those found after GHRH alone.[xi] The results of these two studies show that alpha-GPC is able to help promote GH release in both young and old. [Source]

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1577400

    http://www.jissn.com/content/5/S1/P15




    I thank you for being a customer of ours and, like me, enjoying the use of our Liver Juice. However there must be a reason you are willing to pay for the quality of Liver Juice over a generic milk thistle product. Most likely because you want the supplement do perform as best as possible and as effectively as possible, and that is what I am saying that EndoAmp offers over standard Vitamin C Supplementation.

    Also, thanks for accusing me of hype marketing, but that is simply not the case. If anyone has been able to prolong the discussion of this product, it has been you challenging it and or asking questions. I simply provided the responses.

    good info

    i use the liverjuice because of regular milk thistles poor bioavailability. plus regular milk thistle costs about 10 bucks... i got my liverjuice for 18 dollars.... that to me is worth the price.... i also feel that liver toxicity is something people tend to look over, and i also reccomend the use of tudca or udca along with the liver juice... ( you only have one liver )

    oh, the primo, is cheap, lab tested, and legit.. (if this were a different forum, i could tell you where its from and where it was tested) but thanks for your concern, ill end with this... endoamp may have its benefits, and may do a decent job at supressing cortisol, but imo, it is not worth the money as vitamin c does a great job by itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post

    bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
    Im saying just chill a bit. It is a forum after all so people are entitled to give their opinion.

    I'll agree that there are other, possibly cheaper, alternatives that can work nearly if not just as effectively as some of PP's stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    this is exactly what i would say if i was a rep.....

    im done... im not going to argue with 5 reps from your company...

    here is my point.....90% of the non hormonal supplements on these forums are crap and a total waste of money imo.... all im trying to say, is that for a cost/benefit ratio, i think ill stick with the cheaper of the two........

    bashman excuse me if im a ****... sometimes thats just how i am... i apologize if i take it too far sometimes.....
    That is your opinion, and many agree, I however never have even before I started repping for PP. To each his own good sir

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    Quote Originally Posted by swollen87 View Post
    good info

    i use the liverjuice because of regular milk thistles poor bioavailability. plus regular milk thistle costs about 10 bucks... i got my liverjuice for 18 dollars.... that to me is worth the price.... i also feel that liver toxicity is something people tend to look over, and i also reccomend the use of tudca or udca along with the liver juice... ( you only have one liver )

    oh, the primo, is cheap, lab tested, and legit.. (if this were a different forum, i could tell you where its from and where it was tested) but thanks for your concern, ill end with this... endoamp may have its benefits, and may do a decent job at supressing cortisol, but imo, it is not worth the money as vitamin c does a great job by itself.
    That is your opinion, and I am not here to convince you other wise. Everyone has a price level they are wiling to invest in (Such as you have with the Liver), I was merely defending the product to be more than just cortisol control, and be a better pick for PCT than just Vitamin C.
    Just inject.
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    Vitamin C: This vitamin, mainly known for it's anti-oxidant properties, may also have some anti-cortisol effects. A study done by Stone entitled "Effects of Vitamin C on Cortisol and the Testosterone: Cortisol Ratio" showed a decrease in cortisol levels in 17 junior elite weight lifters. This study also showed that the individuals taking Vitamin C (an extra gram a day) improved their testosterone:cortisol ratio by over 20%. This type of decrease in cortisol can lead to increased muscle and connective-tissue hypertrophy and enhanced recovery from training. Since Vitamin C also decreases your chances of suffering from a cold or flu infection by 30% (14) and may aid in collagen synthesis, it would be wise to take some extra vitamin C when involved in an intense weight-training program
  

  
 

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