PCT Pain; I cut corners and got screwed

[Kid A]

Its all my fault.

I read a thread were a self proclaimed expert said that since H-Drol (cel's halodrol clone) doesn't aromatase into estrogen, all you really need for PCT is Reversitol 2. "Reversitol 2 is fiiiiiiiine for Halodrol pct" he says, "its so mild you almost don't need a pct," he said!
So i purchased H-drol, cycle assist and reversitol 2.
I went from 181 to 194, my gains were so intense that at 194, I realized I don't WANT to be that big, my clothes looked funny. Im 5'10", 194 with negligeable body fat meant I looked like a second rate 1970's pro builder. So I stopped the cycle at 6 weeks and began reversitol 2, all by itself.

That was 4 weeks ago. I am back down to 183. My training and diet have been excellent since then so I doubt they are to blame for the 11 pound relapse. I can feel that my test is not at all re-engaging, I have zero libido or aggression and my mood is estrogen inspired at best. Testicular atrophy has reversed mostly but not all the way and the boys definately are not making test at full capacity.

This was my first anabolic anything, I am not happy with the 2 pound total gain but its my own fault im sure. I also used a relatively high dosage of H Drol, 75/75/75/75/100/75

next time I'll use a legitimate SERM, a cortisol blocker, fenugreek, DHEA and a test booster, im not taking any chances again...

 

[cowboy007]

How did you does your PCT. And Rev 2 is crap. Not even close to the original. Maybe thats what your expert was telling you to get.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Sounds like this expert was trying to sell a product. Never listen to anyone trying to sell their products. Always have a serm on hand... and if your PCT isn't cutting it, immediately order whatever you need in order to fix the problem.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Welcome to AM! nice to have you here.

What were your doses on hdrol?

Its never too late to pct again.

Your HPTA will recover, just hang in there. Give a good otc pct and im sure you will be fine.

2 pounds of LBM over a 6 week period.

Hmmmm........If one could do that all year long, that would be- about 9 pounds..

I would love to get 9 pounds of actual LBM every year... Focking homeostasis is a bitch.

 

[UnrealMachine]

unfortunately that's 2 pounds over a 10 week period and now he's got no testosterone lol

 

[gamer2be08]

THIS IS THE REASON I RECOMMEND YOU USE A SERM EVEN IF THE COMPOUND IS MILD..

 

[Kristofer68SS]

unfortunately that's 2 pounds over a 10 week period and now he's got no testosterone lol

well i doubt that he gained anything in pct, so really its 6..

anywho, i highly doubt hdrol caused a total hpta failure.

with hdrol, i would be more concerned with livers and lipids.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

THIS IS THE REASON I RECOMMEND YOU USE A SERM EVEN IF THE COMPOUND IS MILD..

meh......

many blood panels show a serm isnt needed.......for hdrol

he just needed a better otc pct........

maybe, just maybe a low dose clomid for 2-3 weeks.

 

[schwellington]

but clomid would have prevented this no? Or at least shown us that it isnt the anabolics fault? No?

 

[Kristofer68SS]

but clomid would have prevented this no? Or at least shown us that it isnt the anabolics fault? No?

possibly.

belive it not, alot of hpta recovery is the body doing its focking job. imagine that. lol

hdrol IS mild unless ran over 100mg.....

a more complete otc pct would have been just fine.

 

[HumpTheCook]

possibly.

belive it not, alot of hpta recovery is the body doing its focking job. imagine that. lol

hdrol IS mild unless ran over 100mg.....

a more complete otc pct would have been just fine.

but what is the benefit of risking it with an OTC product that will probably do the job rather than play it safe with a SERM that we know will get it done? this is an honest question, not meant to sound like an a$$hole question if it does.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

define "safe" in the context of your statement.

have you actually looked into the potential side effects of serms and ai's.

not being an ass, but if you had, i wouldnt being posting this.


especially in a halo thread.

 

[HumpTheCook]

i was using the term "safe" as in we know that it will work. not safe as in no side effects... i was asking an honest question, not posting an opinion... i wanted to know why you would recommend the OTC over nolva or clomid.

 

[deadaim]

Seriously, im glad to have people on my side. Show me this bloodwork that suggests you dont need to run a SERM...

What exactly would be values that would not necessitate a SERM? Because Im not sure most doctors could tell me that, nor could you...

 

[Kristofer68SS]

i was using the term "safe" as in we know that it will work. not safe as in no side effects... i was asking an honest question, not posting an opinion... i wanted to know why you would recommend the OTC over nolva or clomid.

I dont like nolva one bit. I believe it to be very toxic. I refuse to use it. And rarely recommend it. Maybe for a test cycle to control estrogen, but there are better methods.

Several debates on it citing various studies. I really dont debate it anymore. You can search the archives and see some of the most heated debates I have been in. lol

I only use clomid for more severe hpta suppression.

There are 10's if not 100's of serm free hdrol cycles with complete otc pct with excellent livers, lipids and test post cycle panels.

If its not needed, why use it? The only serm I use is clomid and never over 50mg ED.

Here is a good read.

http://www.otcpct.com/

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Seriously, im glad to have people on my side. Show me this bloodwork that suggests you dont need to run a SERM...

What exactly would be values that would not necessitate a SERM? Because Im not sure most doctors could tell me that, nor could you...

Search is your friend.

Doctors? Im sure a doctor wouldnt tell you to take hdrol.

get real brah.

 

[deadaim]

That website lists both superdrol and p-plex. you reccomend people use OTC for these steroids too?

search is your friend, find a bunch of fun kids with extremely high shutdown after trying otc pct...

 

[Kristofer68SS]

That website lists both superdrol and p-plex. you reccomend people use OTC for these steroids too?

search is your friend, find a bunch of fun kids with extremely high shutdown after trying otc pct...

We are discussing hdrol, please stay focused.

 

[deadaim]

You posted a website that lists hdrol and mdrol on the same link to determine appropriate OTC pct protocol...

 

[Kristofer68SS]

You posted a website that lists hdrol and mdrol on the same link to determine appropriate OTC pct protocol...

"Some people choose to use a SERM during their PCT with good success. The legality of SERMs is questionable so we can not recommend using them, it is up to the individual if it is worth the risk."

Legal disclaimer man.

Again, please stay current.

 

[deadaim]

Lol im done with this thread, I will never use over the counter garbage to recover from steroids.

If someone really thinks that Nolva is more toxic than the steroids they took then they should run neither.

The only way to find out that OTC PCT might work is a gamble no one should ever take, and honestly the best way to find out would be multiple blood tests, and then shell out cash for your OTC pct leaving you pretty much broke.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Lol im done with this thread, I will never use over the counter garbage to recover from steroids.

If someone really thinks that Nolva is more toxic than the steroids they took then they should run neither.

The only way to find out that OTC PCT might work is a gamble no one should ever take, and honestly the best way to find out would be multiple blood tests, and then shell out cash for your OTC pct leaving you pretty much broke.

Remember, this is a halo thread.

Relax. So we dont agree on pct for halo. Not a big deal.

Im not saying OTC is the only way to go, nor am I saying Serm is the only way to go. Everyone who is considering running ANYTHING hormonal should consider the recovery process as a whole.

The whole body, not just the HPTA. Remember, the liver, kidneys, heart and hpta are all effected by designer exogenous hormones.

To say a SERM or Testbooster is all you need is very niave. There is alot more to pct than getting the nutz back. Being cheap in PCT is not a very good choice IMO.

IMO, Nolva is garbage and will not recommend it at this time. There are just too many better options available. Period.

Yes Blood panels should be taken. At least annually, more if you can get your doctor to run them.

ANY recovery attempt is a gamble unless under the care of a doctor with numerous panels being taken.

 

[duke66]

A lot of good points here on both ends of this discussion. But for me personally I would use a serm because 1) get the boys up and running as quickly as possible. And 2) by getting them up and running quickly one solidifies and has a better shot at retaining their gains from the cycle. Without test in the picture protein turnover will slow to a crawl and combined with cortisol will eat up any gains made while on. Problem with OTC's is one may not realize they are not doing a thing for a few weeks and by then it is too late for keeping gains. Of course one may do a serm based pct after that for the sake of hpta recovery, but by then it's probably too late to keep a significant amount of gains. What a waste of time money and effort.

 

[Kid A]

Welcome to AM! nice to have you here.

What were your doses on hdrol?

Its never too late to pct again.

Your HPTA will recover, just hang in there. Give a good otc pct and im sure you will be fine.



75/75/75/75/100/75, i liked the dosage, during the 100mg week I blew up. Ya i went and picked up some good products right after writing this and not only do i feel better, this week I filled out and leaned a little so I think the gyno tide is ebbing a little.

 

[Kid A]

Sounds like this expert was trying to sell a product. Never listen to anyone trying to sell their products. Always have a serm on hand... and if your PCT isn't cutting it, immediately order whatever you need in order to fix the problem.

Obviously iForce, like every other sup company infiltrated a thread to pitch their product. The back of the bottle says there is an "s.e.r.m." formula in the product. I highly doubt any doctor is out there prescribing Reversitol 2 to treat breast cancer, got me.

 

[Kid A]

Problem with OTC's is one may not realize they are not doing a thing for a few weeks and by then it is too late for keeping gains. Of course one may do a serm based pct after that for the sake of hpta recovery, but by then it's probably too late to keep a significant amount of gains. What a waste of time money and effort.

EXACTLY what I just learned. The reversitol eventually played a role in bouncing back, but so called "test boosters" are designed to take time to stimulate test production. I didnt consider this so for the frist 3 weeks it was gynopalooza then all of the sudden, a few days before i stopped taking the sup i finally felt the crap kick in. real SERMs act immediatly huh?