Is SERM PCT needed for Epi/H-Drol stack?

[g0hardorgohom]

I know that it's possible to run Epi, H-Drol or P-Mag standalone cycle without SERM PCT, but do I need SERM if I stack Epi with H-Drol or P-Mag?

 

[rubbermonkey]

yes.....always use a serm... better safe than sorry... besides a SERM is cheap!

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I can't get SERM.. I'm not american and here it's illegal to sell and import that stuff (actually prohormones are illegal too but ph:s are easy to get). Of course it's possible to get SERM and real gear too if knows right people, but I don't have such contacts..

Of course I would use SERM even with mild cycles, but now when I can't get it, is it better to stay with standalone cycles than stack? I know that H-Drol, Epi and P-Mag are mild compared to SD, PP or M1,4add, but if those two (Epi & H-Drol) are stacked, is OTC PCT effective enough?

Hopefully you guys are able to understand what I'm trying to say

 

[wedlund6]

i have ran 8 cycles with a otc pct (epi/h-drol)i have ran 2 cycles stacked epi and 1 andro rx with a otc pct.
have you ran solo cycle with a otc pct before?
if you have not i would try it solo first.
if you have i would run
epi 20/30/40/40
h-drol 0/25/50/75
i would not go over 4 weeks.experimenting with out a serm on hand is scary.and if epi/h-drol are illegal where you are and seeing a doc. about it if things go wrong is not a option. whats your back up plan if it goes bad

 

[g0hardorgohom]

No, I haven't done any PH cycles yet. I've been doing some research for couple of months and I've decided that I'll run a solo cycle with Epi first and next cycle (if there will be second) will probably be the solo cycle with H-Drol. I was just asking about this stacking thing for future, you know.. If I'm gonna stack prohormones, I'll of course try each PH:s solo first, because it's never sure how human body reacts to different steroids..

About that legality thing.. I should have said that PH:s are illegal to sell here and are banned by antidoping organization, but it isn't illegal to use prohormones and it's easy to get that stuff from UK (I live inside the EU). If something goes wrong, I'll be able to go to doctor and for example if I'll get bad gyno, doctor may give me Nolvadex or Clomid. But I can't go to the doctor and say "Hello, I'll run steroid cycle and I haven't proper PCT, can you give me Nolva?"

PS. I have still time to do some research and learn about steroids. I'm planning to start my first cycle in the end of this year (I have one natural competition next summer and I wanna be 100% natural there) but I'd like to get bottles as soon as possible now when it's still easy to get prohormones..

 

[edwitt]

I can't get SERM.. I'm not american and here it's illegal to sell and import that stuff (actually prohormones are illegal too but ph:s are easy to get). Of course it's possible to get SERM and real gear too if knows right people, but I don't have such contacts..

Of course I would use SERM even with mild cycles, but now when I can't get it, is it better to stay with standalone cycles than stack? I know that H-Drol, Epi and P-Mag are mild compared to SD, PP or M1,4add, but if those two (Epi & H-Drol) are stacked, is OTC PCT effective enough?

Hopefully you guys are able to understand what I'm trying to say

I you use google you will find 100's of sellers of Clomid/Nolva if you use your brains wont be that hard to cross reference your source and find a reputable one. Not many of us have a "guy" we just do a little bit of homewotk... IMO you would be crazy not to run a SERM there are people all over these boards with bitch tits and all sorts of other hormonal problems. Not trying to sound like a jerk but if your not gonna do it properly dont do it at all

ill even set you off in the right direction google "research chemical clomid"

:AR15firing:

 

[g0hardorgohom]

But there is just one little problem. Almost every package coming from the outside of the EU will be checked by customs and it's extremely rare to get banned drugs even from the EU country. Most of the prohormones aren't banned here so I'll get them even if the package will be checked by customs, but banned drugs like Clomid, Nolva or anabolic steroids won't pass that check..

 

[edwitt]

But there is just one little problem. Almost every package coming from the outside of the EU will be checked by customs and it's extremely rare to get banned drugs even from the EU country. Most of the prohormones aren't banned here so I'll get them even if the package will be checked by customs, but banned drugs like Clomid, Nolva or anabolic steroids won't pass that check..

Firstly there lots of reputable companies outside the USA gurantee delivery they will resend if doesnt get through customs

Secondly: There is no need to go outside the US for Research Chems, there are plenty of US companies and its not illegal to sell or buy research chems, the are not sold for human consumption but research

Your going to experiment on your gerbils RIGHT? get it ?

 

[edwitt]

But there is just one little problem. Almost every package coming from the outside of the EU will be checked by customs and it's extremely rare to get banned drugs even from the EU country. Most of the prohormones aren't banned here so I'll get them even if the package will be checked by customs, but banned drugs like Clomid, Nolva or anabolic steroids won't pass that check..

thirdly: you are wrong about "Almost every package coming from the outside of the EU will be checked by customs and it's extremely rare to get banned drugs even from the EU country" they have better than a 90% chance and like i said they guaranteed to resend if any problems... Use that "google" also all the information is here in these forums use the"search" sources your on your own with "google"

 

[edwitt]

But there is just one little problem. Almost every package coming from the outside of the EU will be checked by customs and it's extremely rare to get banned drugs even from the EU country. Most of the prohormones aren't banned here so I'll get them even if the package will be checked by customs, but banned drugs like Clomid, Nolva or anabolic steroids won't pass that check..

also theres no need to buy PH from EU, if they are not banned here they are sold here for example Superdrone

Hope this is of some help....

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I'm not sure if I understood you right..

First, that doesn't matter if they resend the stuff or not, but if it doesn't get through the customs, I'll have to pay penalty and it isn't cheap. If it doesn't get through once, it won't get through at all. That's how it goes here. I "know" one or two guys that have got the stuff, but I know 10's of guys that haven't. The risk is too high because the penalty is quite big.

Secondly, there is no help from the US companies, I'm not from the United States. If I were, this would be a lot easier. I live in Europe. I think I mentioned it in the earlier posts..

 

[edwitt]

I'm not sure if I understood you right..

First, that doesn't matter if they resend the stuff or not, but if it doesn't get through the customs, I'll have to pay penalty and it isn't cheap. If it doesn't get through once, it won't get through at all. That's how it goes here. I "know" one or two guys that have got the stuff, but I know 10's of guys that haven't. The risk is too high because the penalty is quite big.

Secondly, there is no help from the US companies, I'm not from the United States. If I were, this would be a lot easier. I live in Europe. I think I mentioned it in the earlier posts..

Sorry, my bad...odidnt know you were in Europe... There are a ton of sellers in Europe so just buy from Europe then you wont have to worry about customs and like i said they guarantee delivery or resend or give u money back...

What country are you in? Ill try and help

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Finland. I know that they guarantee delivery, but as I said, its extremely rare that the package which contains banned drugs goes through the customs and if they bust it once, they'll mark your name to somewhere and they'll check every package after that. Risk is too big. Actually I have googled about that and have read for just one or two package that get through and a lot more that hadn't get through.
It's common knowledge here that you won't get steroids from the internet. But if I can get Nolva or Clomid for PCT, I'll use it, that's sure.

I still need opinions about that PCT question. If we assume that OTC PCT is enought for standalone cycles with Epi, H-Drol or Promagnon (I know many of you thinks that SERM is always needed), would it be good enought for Epi/H-Drol stack or would it be insane to even try?

 

[justeat]

dude there are plenty of ph companies in the continent of europe. Just search and once u find a different company check to see where they are based off of. In fact, Ive deff ordered nolva that was from a eu country in the past.

On another note, if you have never ran a cycle before, why would you run two compounds on your first run? just do h-drol for your first cycle, and then you will be much more able to get away with an otc pct... then mabey move to epi next time, then consider putting them together, thats the way it is.

 

[edwitt]

Finland. I know that they guarantee delivery, but as I said, its extremely rare that the package which contains banned drugs goes through the customs and if they bust it once, they'll mark your name to somewhere and they'll check every package after that. Risk is too big. Actually I have googled about that and have read for just one or two package that get through and a lot more that hadn't get through.
It's common knowledge here that you won't get steroids from the internet. But if I can get Nolva or Clomid for PCT, I'll use it, that's sure.

I still need opinions about that PCT question. If we assume that OTC PCT is enought for standalone cycles with Epi, H-Drol or Promagnon (I know many of you thinks that SERM is always needed), would it be good enought for Epi/H-Drol stack or would it be insane to even try?

\\

its a risk mate... Finland ehhh emm cant help there sorry, im not familiar with your laws but i would keep trying and if all else fails then you can go the OTC route but IMO its a risk

Sorry for the lack of help

 

[edwitt]

Finland. I know that they guarantee delivery, but as I said, its extremely rare that the package which contains banned drugs goes through the customs and if they bust it once, they'll mark your name to somewhere and they'll check every package after that. Risk is too big. Actually I have googled about that and have read for just one or two package that get through and a lot more that hadn't get through.
It's common knowledge here that you won't get steroids from the internet. But if I can get Nolva or Clomid for PCT, I'll use it, that's sure.

I still need opinions about that PCT question. If we assume that OTC PCT is enought for standalone cycles with Epi, H-Drol or Promagnon (I know many of you thinks that SERM is always needed), would it be good enought for Epi/H-Drol stack or would it be insane to even try?

Are you saying, that if you buy from a country that is EU member there is customs? That doesnt make sense, why would there be customs buying from the UK? Finland is a member state of the EU

 

[g0hardorgohom]

dude there are plenty of ph companies in the continent of europe. Just search and once u find a different company check to see where they are based off of. In fact, Ive deff ordered nolva that was from a eu country in the past.

On another note, if you have never ran a cycle before, why would you run two compounds on your first run? just do h-drol for your first cycle, and then you will be much more able to get away with an otc pct... then mabey move to epi next time, then consider putting them together, thats the way it is.

Yes, I know that there are PH companies, that's not the problem. And I know that there is companies selling Nolva but the problem is getting it through customs. And I'm goint to run standalone cycle first, but I asked information for the future, because when I purchase bottles I'll buy enough for couple of years. Prohormones are in "grey area" here and I think it's just matter of time when it gets hard to get even prohormones throught customs. And even if I don't like PH:s/if they aren't for me, there will definitely be no problems selling it forward

Are you saying, that if you buy from a country that is EU member there is customs? That doesnt make sense, why would there be customs buying from the UK? Finland is a member state of the EU

I don't know how it is but I know that almost no one gets banned drugs from internet here..

\\

its a risk mate... Finland ehhh emm cant help there sorry, im not familiar with your laws but i would keep trying and if all else fails then you can go the OTC route but IMO its a risk

Sorry for the lack of help

There is just one thing you need to know: the laws here sucks. They give just penalty or couple of years of prison to pedofils or murderers and you'll get almost same if you mess with banned drugs. For example one pretty famous athlete had to pay thousands because of 10 tabs of Clenbuterol and 9 tabs of D-Bol. 440€ penalty and 3800€ for judicial proceedings. That's justice..

Thanks for trying to help me anyway

 

[edwitt]

Yes, I know that there are PH companies, that's not the problem. And I know that there is companies selling Nolva but the problem is getting it through customs. And I'm goint to run standalone cycle first, but I asked information for the future, because when I purchase bottles I'll buy enough for couple of years. Prohormones are in "grey area" here and I think it's just matter of time when it gets hard to get even prohormones throught customs. And even if I don't like PH:s/if they aren't for me, there will definitely be no problems selling it forward



I don't know how it is but I know that almost no one gets banned drugs from internet here..



There is just one thing you need to know: the laws here sucks. They give just penalty or couple of years of prison to pedofils or murderers and you'll get almost same if you mess with banned drugs. For example one pretty famous athlete had to pay thousands because of 10 tabs of Clenbuterol and 9 tabs of D-Bol. 440€ penalty and 3800€ for judicial proceedings. That's justice..

Thanks for trying to help me anyway

Well when you find it make sure you stock up, I live in the USA but im from the UK and i know if i buy anything from EU state there is no customs

 

[wedlund6]

you will be fine with a otc pct with epi or h-drol keep your cycle at 4 weeks no more.for your pct
run 6-bromo or novadex i perfer 6-bromo 4 weeks tapper off last week
run t booster i like trs by pp or t-bol by termo run 6 weeks
run cotisol support i like x lean by ibe or lean fx by ax run 4 to 6 weeks.
run resveratrol (t-bol has it in it) 4 to 6 weeks

 

[greaser]

No, I haven't done any PH cycles yet. I've been doing some research for couple of months and I've decided that I'll run a solo cycle with Epi first and next cycle (if there will be second) will probably be the solo cycle with H-Drol. I was just asking about this stacking thing for future, you know.. If I'm gonna stack prohormones, I'll of course try each PH:s solo first, because it's never sure how human body reacts to different steroids..

About that legality thing.. I should have said that PH:s are illegal to sell here and are banned by antidoping organization, but it isn't illegal to use prohormones and it's easy to get that stuff from UK (I live inside the EU). If something goes wrong, I'll be able to go to doctor and for example if I'll get bad gyno, doctor may give me Nolvadex or Clomid. But I can't go to the doctor and say "Hello, I'll run steroid cycle and I haven't proper PCT, can you give me Nolva?"

PS. I have still time to do some research and learn about steroids. I'm planning to start my first cycle in the end of this year (I have one natural competition next summer and I wanna be 100% natural there) but I'd like to get bottles as soon as possible now when it's still easy to get prohormones..

No offense, but you haven't done nearly enough research if you are thinking of stacking two METHYLATED compounds. You could possibly seriously damage your liver. You can run one OR the other, or you can stack either one with a NON-methylated compound. No one who knows what they're doing would stack two methylated 17aa compounds together.

Seriously, look up methylated steroids and liver damage.

I'm running Hdrol right now, but I'm stacking it with Dermacrine. I have Epi at home, but there's no way I'd take them together.

That being said, H-drol is generally considered better for a first cycle. The longer you run it, the more likely you'll need a SERM. Lots of people have run Hdrol for 5 weeks at a reasonable dose and been OK with a GOOD over the counter PCT. Then again, lots of people have used BAD OTC PTCs and gotten into trouble.

Personally, I'm using the Testosterone Recovery Stack from Primordial Performance. But I'm keeping my cycle to 5 weeks, and my dosage is like this: 50/50/50/75/75, along with the topical Dermacrine. I'm going to get some Nolva though too, just in case.

I'm also taking Liver Juice for liver protection from the H-drol.

Good luck.

 

[greaser]

Sorry, my bad...odidnt know you were in Europe... There are a ton of sellers in Europe so just buy from Europe then you wont have to worry about customs and like i said they guarantee delivery or resend or give u money back...

What country are you in? Ill try and help

I think most of those on line pharmacies are in Eastern Europe and not part of the European Union.

 

[narraboth]

SERM is usually not a banned drug, it's a prescription drug. (what, women in your country don't have breast cancer?) are you sure noval is in your own country's banned chemical list?
There is usually no or very low customs check between your country and other EU members/UK. And I can't imagine when you said 'every package will be checked in customs'. how small is your country or how much money that put just in custom check??

 

[g0hardorgohom]

No offense, but you haven't done nearly enough research if you are thinking of stacking two METHYLATED compounds. You could possibly seriously damage your liver. You can run one OR the other, or you can stack either one with a NON-methylated compound. No one who knows what they're doing would stack two methylated 17aa compounds together.

Seriously, look up methylated steroids and liver damage.

I'm running Hdrol right now, but I'm stacking it with Dermacrine. I have Epi at home, but there's no way I'd take them together.

That being said, H-drol is generally considered better for a first cycle. The longer you run it, the more likely you'll need a SERM. Lots of people have run Hdrol for 5 weeks at a reasonable dose and been OK with a GOOD over the counter PCT. Then again, lots of people have used BAD OTC PTCs and gotten into trouble.

Personally, I'm using the Testosterone Recovery Stack from Primordial Performance. But I'm keeping my cycle to 5 weeks, and my dosage is like this: 50/50/50/75/75, along with the topical Dermacrine. I'm going to get some Nolva though too, just in case.

I'm also taking Liver Juice for liver protection from the H-drol.

Good luck.

Thanks for information! I just thought that Epi/H-Drol stack because I've read many logs and I think it's not so uncommon stack... I thought Epi or H-Drol does not stress the liver like for example Superdrol or Phera-Plex does so I thought that stacking those two compounds would be OK. But if it is so dangerous, I will do just standalone cycles with methylated compounds. I think that even so I will gain a lot faster than without any prohormones

SERM is usually not a banned drug, it's a prescription drug. (what, women in your country don't have breast cancer?) are you sure noval is in your own country's banned chemical list?
There is usually no or very low customs check between your country and other EU members/UK. And I can't imagine when you said 'every package will be checked in customs'. how small is your country or how much money that put just in custom check??

I just checked it again and yes, it's prescription drug and banned in sports. That means olso that I won't get it unless I have something serious health issue because of estrogen (like bad gynecomastia)..

 

[greaser]

Thanks for information! I just thought that Epi/H-Drol stack because I've read many logs and I think it's not so uncommon stack... I thought Epi or H-Drol does not stress the liver like for example Superdrol or Phera-Plex does so I thought that stacking those two compounds would be OK. But if it is so dangerous, I will do just standalone cycles with methylated compounds. I think that even so I will gain a lot faster than without any prohormones QUOTE]

You're welcome.

Superdrol IS more liver toxic than Epi or H-drol, but that's because it's double methylated. Just remember to not take more than one methylated compound at a time, and take some kind of liver protection (and no alcohol!) and you should be ok.

Again, as far as a non-SERM PCT goes, I recommend the Testosterone Recovery Stack by Primordial Performance. I don't have enough points to post a link, but they are a sponsor of this board, so you should be able to find them easily. Just keep your H-drol cycle to under 6 weeks and you should be fine.

 

[g0hardorgohom]

Hello again.. I didn't want to create a new thread so I posted to this one.

What would be good OTC PCT for H-Drol cycle? I already have two bottles of Novedex XT and I would like to use it. I've thought about these PCT's:

- Novedex XT & Cissus-Drol & Super Cissus RX (do I need another test booster, for example Speman by Himalaya?)
- Reversitol (old one) & Super Cissus RX (Do I need another AI or test booster? Should I add Novedex XT to this PCT? And would Speman be good as an extra test booster?)
- AX Advanced PCT & Novedex XT & Super Cissus RX

Which one would be best PCT? Is cortisol blocker worth of money? I'm not a great friend of dry joints so I would rather use Super Cissus RX than Reduce XT/another "real" cortisol blocker. Or do I need any cortisol blocker? Should I start using cortisol blocker at the first week of PCT or later? Is 4 weeks enough for PCT?

If you have better ideas for OTC PCT, I'm listening

 

[greaser]

Look at the post right above your most recent one. If you are going to do an OTC PCT, get Primordial Performance's Testosterone Recovery Stack. It's one stack that handles all aspects of PCT, including cortisol control (EndoAmp Max is the best for that).

Hello again.. I didn't want to create a new thread so I posted to this one.

What would be good OTC PCT for H-Drol cycle? I already have two bottles of Novedex XT and I would like to use it. I've thought about these PCT's:

- Novedex XT & Cissus-Drol & Super Cissus RX (do I need another test booster, for example Speman by Himalaya?)
- Reversitol (old one) & Super Cissus RX (Do I need another AI or test booster? Should I add Novedex XT to this PCT? And would Speman be good as an extra test booster?)
- AX Advanced PCT & Novedex XT & Super Cissus RX

Which one would be best PCT? Is cortisol blocker worth of money? I'm not a great friend of dry joints so I would rather use Super Cissus RX than Reduce XT/another "real" cortisol blocker. Or do I need any cortisol blocker? Should I start using cortisol blocker at the first week of PCT or later? Is 4 weeks enough for PCT?

If you have better ideas for OTC PCT, I'm listening

 

[g0hardorgohom]

I can't find it inside the EU and if I order it from the United States it will cost too much and it's not even sure if it goes through customs..

 

[greaser]

I can't find it inside the EU and if I order it from the United States it will cost too much and it's not even sure if it goes through customs..

You have to order it directly from the company. PrimordialPerformance .com You can find out about shipping from them.

It's available in Canada which doesn't allow anabolics, so I'm sure it'll be OK in the EU. It's all natural stuff, so I doubt that would be an issue. Check with them to get a quote on shipping.