pct check list opinions

[stang4u2nv]

Hey fellas, i'm about to start my first test suspension cycle. i'm 5'9" 205lbs.... have been training rigurously for about 2 years now. i was fat before i got into bodybuilding about 2 years ago and now i'm a gym rat. i can't stop going and i feel very bad if i miss my training. anyways i was 215lbs before with 15.5" arms and a size 36-38 pants. i trained very hard with my brother and got to 170lbs size 30" waist. after 2 years i've used creatine, used Halodrol liquidgels twice, protein is always on hand twice daily. so now i'm 205 18" arms and prob a 12-16%bf. my plan is to go up to 225lbs on the AAS and see where that takes me. hopefully you guys can chime in and help me out here. ok enough BS.....This is strictly a test Cycle ONLY nothing else except for food. Pretty much i have a handle on this First cycle except i'm a little confused on pct here....ENJOY

breakdown--
200mg of test suspension E3Ds x 8WKS---planning to see how i react to this stuff first.
I have 1 bottle of HCG on hand of 5000iu's
Arimidex.

Now i was under the impression that i would use the HCG 3 days after my last pin and run it 500iux2 for 2 weeks, then run the arimidex 0.5gs ED for 4 weeks. NOTE if i'm prone to gyno or see any signs the i guess i have to run the arimidex 0.5x3 a week while on cycle in order to stop the gyno. if i get any.

My questions are should i definitely use the hcg for 2 weeks at this dosage 3 days after my last pin?
Should i run it while on the cycle to keep my testes working?
I know its active life is about 30 days and i only have one bottle.
Please chime in with all your suggestions.....!!!!
Calorie intake will be 3500-4000 a day with low carb only complex carbs before working out, medium fats and high protein.
champion nutrition protein shake x3 daily, and lots of meats and eggs. please chime in.
thanks in advance guys!!!

 

[stang4u2nv]

BUMP

 

[stang4u2nv]

no opinions? come on fellas i need your advice..

 

[stang4u2nv]

someone in here must know something... i have done my research and i know everyone feels differently about everything i.e cycle and pct but i would like some input or advice from the gurus in here..........train hard.

 

[edwitt]

Hey fellas, i'm about to start my first test suspension cycle. i'm 5'9" 205lbs.... have been training rigurously for about 2 years now. i was fat before i got into bodybuilding about 2 years ago and now i'm a gym rat. i can't stop going and i feel very bad if i miss my training. anyways i was 215lbs before with 15.5" arms and a size 36-38 pants. i trained very hard with my brother and got to 170lbs size 30" waist. after 2 years i've used creatine, used Halodrol liquidgels twice, protein is always on hand twice daily. so now i'm 205 18" arms and prob a 12-16%bf. my plan is to go up to 225lbs on the AAS and see where that takes me. hopefully you guys can chime in and help me out here. ok enough BS.....This is strictly a test Cycle ONLY nothing else except for food. Pretty much i have a handle on this First cycle except i'm a little confused on pct here....ENJOY

breakdown--
200mg of test suspension E3Ds x 8WKS---planning to see how i react to this stuff first.
I have 1 bottle of HCG on hand of 5000iu's
Arimidex.

Now i was under the impression that i would use the HCG 3 days after my last pin and run it 500iux2 for 2 weeks, then run the arimidex 0.5gs ED for 4 weeks. NOTE if i'm prone to gyno or see any signs the i guess i have to run the arimidex 0.5x3 a week while on cycle in order to stop the gyno. if i get any.

My questions are should i definitely use the hcg for 2 weeks at this dosage 3 days after my last pin?
Should i run it while on the cycle to keep my testes working?
I know its active life is about 30 days and i only have one bottle.
Please chime in with all your suggestions.....!!!!
Calorie intake will be 3500-4000 a day with low carb only complex carbs before working out, medium fats and high protein.
champion nutrition protein shake x3 daily, and lots of meats and eggs. please chime in.
thanks in advance guys!!!

i am also about to embark on my first inj cycle and have done alot of research and asked a lot of questions. I think the general opion here is 500 iu HCG every 5 days. HCG in small doses to keep the boys going, this is known as "Swales Protocol" plenty of info if you search Swales. Why no SERM. Im gonna prob run a similar cycle will run Clomid 75 50 50 25 and proviron, HCG on cycle. I think many will say HCG not required at all on a mild starter cycle but on cycle for sure and as you already have it

 

[gamer2be08]

I would not use the HCG for that short of a cycle IMO. Stick with a normal Nolva or Clomid PCT plan and you will recover fine.

 

[gamer2be08]

Also, dont use the adex on cycle or for PCT if signs of gyno dont occur...

 

[GeekPoop]

Also, dont use the adex on cycle or for PCT if signs of gyno dont occur...

I beleive in prevention is the best protection. to each his own tho

 

[gamer2be08]

I didnt mean wait till you have gyno, but you can tell if it is about to form...

 

[stang4u2nv]

ok so i'll have the arimidex on hand in case of gyno appearance lets say sore nipples then start on the arimidex. isn't arimidex like nolvadex only stronger? this would be my estrogen blocker since i couldn't find the Nolva or clomid. hcg i feel i need to use it because suspension as i have read is extremely powerful and quick acting so if my testes shrink i want to bring them back down very fast as to not lose my gains. this is another question i have since the testes shrink do you guys just run the cycle with them being shrinked and then run hcg to bring them back or do you constantly apply HCG to keep them down??? these are my 2 major question so far, and thank for all the opinions fellas.

 

[stang4u2nv]

i would include cardio 3xweek for the bloating and how does my diet sound?

 

[edwitt]

ok so i'll have the arimidex on hand in case of gyno appearance lets say sore nipples then start on the arimidex. isn't arimidex like nolvadex only stronger? this would be my estrogen blocker since i couldn't find the Nolva or clomid. hcg i feel i need to use it because suspension as i have read is extremely powerful and quick acting so if my testes shrink i want to bring them back down very fast as to not lose my gains. this is another question i have since the testes shrink do you guys just run the cycle with them being shrinked and then run hcg to bring them back or do you constantly apply HCG to keep them down??? these are my 2 major question so far, and thank for all the opinions fellas.

you got Test and HCG but cant find a Clomid or Nolva?? try harder

 

[stang4u2nv]

Trust me Edwitt i tried finding the clomid or nolva but where i work at they don't have it they only had the Arimidex. Now with all due respect i know everyone here or mostly everyone has used clomid or nolva but i would like someone to tell me why isn't it possible to use the arimidex since as i have read and asked is a much more effective and potent E-blocker. Another issue i have is i live in miami and as you know is the playground for fake and useless AAS so with that said i'm being very carefull with what i buy and who i buy it from. So far i haven't purchased anything through any local gym rats or gym buddies. everything is 100% legit and accounted for like the test. i have the test in ampules not vials so there is no chance of bunk test in it and also is brought over from out of the country. you get my point, just tell me something to make this a better experience for me and many other bodybuilders. Like gamer2be08 said not to use the arimidex while on cycle or for pct if gyno doesn't occur. thats the kind of reply i'm looking for.

 

[gamer2be08]

Aridex is an AI
Nolvadex is a SERM
And I promise you will bounce back after a 9 week cycle with a legit thought out PCT plan of nolva/clomid and a possible test booster and atd usage.. IMO

 

[edwitt]

Trust me Edwitt i tried finding the clomid or nolva but where i work at they don't have it they only had the Arimidex. Now with all due respect i know everyone here or mostly everyone has used clomid or nolva but i would like someone to tell me why isn't it possible to use the arimidex since as i have read and asked is a much more effective and potent E-blocker. Another issue i have is i live in miami and as you know is the playground for fake and useless AAS so with that said i'm being very carefull with what i buy and who i buy it from. So far i haven't purchased anything through any local gym rats or gym buddies. everything is 100% legit and accounted for like the test. i have the test in ampules not vials so there is no chance of bunk test in it and also is brought over from out of the country. you get my point, just tell me something to make this a better experience for me and many other bodybuilders. Like gamer2be08 said not to use the arimidex while on cycle or for pct if gyno doesn't occur. thats the kind of reply i'm looking for.

i think the vast majority of people here like to run experiments on their rats from time to time. Should you wish to run such an experiment which is totally legal you might find it helpful to google "Chem Research" numerous companies can assist you with your research products, One in particular comes to mind but there are others

 

[gamer2be08]

I buy my research chems and pharm grade meds for personal ingestion and satisfaction

 

[edwitt]

AI= Aromatase inhibitor. It prevents the aromatase enzyme from acting on testosterone and turning the test into estrogen.

SERM= Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. These chemicals act on your estrogen receptors, not estrogen itself. SERMs prevent estrogen from exerting their cellular effects.

SERMs block estrogen from acting on certain sites in the body, while AIs prevent your body from synthesizing estrogen, two very different actions.

Get the picture? or do you need me to draw it out?

 

[gamer2be08]

AI= Aromatase inhibitor. It prevents the aromatase enzyme from acting on testosterone and turning the test into estrogen.

SERM= Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. These chemicals act on your estrogen receptors, not estrogen itself. SERMs prevent estrogen from exerting their cellular effects.

SERMs block estrogen from acting on certain sites in the body, while AIs prevent your body from synthesizing estrogen, two very different actions.

Get the picture? or do you need me to draw it out?

SERM is an synthetic estrogen, that competes for receptor sites... Not necessarily blocking per say..

 

[edwitt]

SERM is an synthetic estrogen, that competes for receptor sites... Not necessarily blocking per say..

SERM/AI

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM’s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen , by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogen , activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogen on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

 

[gamer2be08]

Nice info, I think I have read that about 30 times now... How does that relate to what I wrote though?

 

[edwitt]

Nice info, I think I have read that about 30 times now... How does that relate to what I wrote though?

Thought the question was, how does AI/SERM differ and why do you need a SERM for PCT opposed to using your AI? if thats the question, i think its answered, no?

 

[gamer2be08]

Haha, no. I know the difference, I was adding on to what a SERM is..

 

[edwitt]

Haha, no. I know the difference, I was adding on to what a SERM is..

lol.... you didnt start this thread did you.... ill go back to sleep

:439:

 

[edwitt]

lol.... you didnt start this thread did you.... ill go back to sleep

:439:

Anyways i think we can confidently and safely say without hesitation that a SERM is critical to any well thought out PCT

:439:

 

[gamer2be08]

On outlaw muscle there is a thread on guys who dont ever do a PCT and claim they are fine.. They say that the whole adding a PCT is a marketing scare tactic.. But I have seen what lack of PCT can do to an individual and it isnt pretty.. So why risk it. But some people just naturally seem to bounce back faster after cycle..

 

[edwitt]

On outlaw muscle there is a thread on guys who dont ever do a PCT and claim they are fine.. They say that the whole adding a PCT is a marketing scare tactic.. But I have seen what lack of PCT can do to an individual and it isnt pretty.. So why risk it. But some people just naturally seem to bounce back faster after cycle..

ive had my blood drawn and know what it does to me Doc wanted to send me for an MRI of the pituitary gland before i told him id just come off a strong PH cycle. That **** can be real suppressive and as a side note i strongly recommend a visit to the doc regardless of PCT, just tell em what your on. I would also advise one before any cycle, a baseline is an invaluable tool. Also you never know what free goodies you can get prescribed.

 

[stang4u2nv]

thank you for your replies they are all extremely informative. I just got a hold a pharmacist today that is willing to get me some nolva and start my cycle...again thank you all...I will keep you posted on my cycle as soon as i start it. wish me luck

 

[edwitt]

thank you for your replies they are all extremely informative. I just got a hold a pharmacist today that is willing to get me some nolva and start my cycle...again thank you all...I will keep you posted on my cycle as soon as i start it. wish me luck

congrats, glad you waited until everything was in check and in hand

good job and good luck