What Unsupresses Natty T. the quickest?

[XxAnabolicBxX]

Will be beginning My Pct from an E-Stane cycle in a couple weeks. I'm looking to add one more item to help bring the boys back quicker.
So far I have

CELs' PCT Assist &
Primordial Performances' Sustain Alpha

Should I add some clomid to the mix? or is there another OTC product that would help much more?

 

[GeekPoop]

clomid would be the faster route IMO but youll comeback fast and quick regardless of what you use, epistane is pretty mild

 

[XxAnabolicBxX]

If i cannot obtain clomifene for some reason, is there another cheap otc supplement I can throw in the mix that would help out a bit? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[GeekPoop]

If i cannot obtain clomifene for some reason, is there another cheap otc supplement I can throw in the mix that would help out a bit? Anyone have any ideas?

youll be fine with pct assist, your just using epi

 

[warbird01]

youll be fine with pct assist, your just using epi

Dont underestimate epi broseph, hes def. shut down.

But SERM def. gonna bring u back waaaay faster than anything otc

 

[CaponeCEO]

youll be fine with pct assist, your just using epi

I agree. Add a test booster and see if they get back in a few weeks. I would doubt you would have any problem. SERM would be faster, but if you don't already have it then I would say go the other way.

I used Epi as my PCT for Superdrol and had a great experience. No sides at the end.

 

[jaydollars]

^^^What you used epi for a superdrol pct?

 

[flightposite]

^^^X2 i would like to hear more about this.

on a side note op i think sustain alpha would be perfect for your epi pct.

 

[CaponeCEO]

^^^What you used epi for a superdrol pct?

I bridged Superdrol into Havoc. I've ran Havoc as a stand alone before and had no sides. Epistane is known for its anti-estrogen effects, making it a mild PH. Also a great one IMO. I ran the Superdrol, which is a tough one, bridged into Havoc for 4 weeks. At the end of the 4 weeks I had no sides and felt as if I had just ended a Epistane stand alone run. Epi is not intended for PCT and works differently with other people's bodies. I guess I am lucky to have a good, no sides, reaction with it.

I also had Nolva on hand, as well as an assortment of other supps for PCT. But luckily I didn't need them.

 

[gamer2be08]

I bridged Superdrol into Havoc. I've ran Havoc as a stand alone before and had no sides. Epistane is known for its anti-estrogen effects, making it a mild PH. Also a great one IMO. I ran the Superdrol, which is a tough one, bridged into Havoc for 4 weeks. At the end of the 4 weeks I had no sides and felt as if I had just ended a Epistane stand alone run. Epi is not intended for PCT and works differently with other people's bodies. I guess I am lucky to have a good, no sides, reaction with it.

I also had Nolva on hand, as well as an assortment of other supps for PCT. But luckily I didn't need them.

So you didnt use a serm for an mdrol/epi bridge?? But you had it on hand?? The nolva isnt just there to supress sides post cycle, but to bring your natty test back faster. Epi would just further suppress you even though it is a mild steroid. If you havent already you should really use the nolva at 20/20/20/20...

 

[warbird01]

I bridged Superdrol into Havoc. I've ran Havoc as a stand alone before and had no sides. Epistane is known for its anti-estrogen effects, making it a mild PH. Also a great one IMO. I ran the Superdrol, which is a tough one, bridged into Havoc for 4 weeks. At the end of the 4 weeks I had no sides and felt as if I had just ended a Epistane stand alone run. Epi is not intended for PCT and works differently with other people's bodies. I guess I am lucky to have a good, no sides, reaction with it.

I also had Nolva on hand, as well as an assortment of other supps for PCT. But luckily I didn't need them.

This is wrong on so many levels. Anyone who reads this, please do NOT do this.

Epi might be "mild" as far as sides go, but it will shut you down HARD, no doubt about that.

You are lucky you did not **** yourself up bad. Have you got any bloodwork done lately?

Why/how did you even think of doing this...?

 

[CaponeCEO]

This is wrong on so many levels. Anyone who reads this, please do NOT do this.

Epi might be "mild" as far as sides go, but it will shut you down HARD, no doubt about that.

You are lucky you did not **** yourself up bad. Have you got any bloodwork done lately?

Why/how did you even think of doing this...?

Actually I had 0 shutdown and have been at this game for quite a long time. I did't run the Superdrol for the full 4 weeks. I cut it down. I used the Epi for a full 4 weeks though. Epi isn't a staple for PCT, but bridging down from Superdrol it worked fine. I ran this last year and had 0 sides. I did of course use a test booster and novadex when I was done. I would have used Nolva had a felt the need. I also had P5P, lean xtreme, DHEA, and tribulus to add into the mix had I wanted/needed to.

Warbird I appreciate the concern, but trust me brother when you know what your body tolerates and doesn't tolerate you have a much more informed decision based upon how you feel. You have to remember that you may be good at this game but there is someone always more seasoned then you, and your advice while generally good might not be exactly right on an individual basis. I did some really stupid things when I was too young to even realize them. So I've learned well from that. I've run Epi numerous times without shut down.

I also wouldn't recommend anyone trying to use Epi as PCT, it is not intended for that. I would hope you all do your homework and learn what works best for you. Doing full Superdrol into Epi is a bad idea, I just dabbled in a little S-Drol to get my Epi kicked off.

 

[CaponeCEO]

So you didnt use a serm for an mdrol/epi bridge?? But you had it on hand?? The nolva isnt just there to supress sides post cycle, but to bring your natty test back faster. Epi would just further suppress you even though it is a mild steroid. If you havent already you should really use the nolva at 20/20/20/20...

I've used Nolva in the past for other cycles and I know when it's needed. I ran this bridge early last year. Your test levels will rise back up to homeostasis at different rates for different people. I personally get a great response from test boosters. Had I run the full cycle of S-Drol I would have used the SERM.

 

[gamer2be08]

I've used Nolva in the past for other cycles and I know when it's needed. I ran this bridge early last year. Your test levels will rise back up to homeostasis at different rates for different people. I personally get a great response from test boosters. Had a run the full cycle of S-Drol I would have used the SERM.

You say you had 0 shutdown right. Did you get a blood work to prove your theory? And if you haven't, can you humor us all and get a blood work done after another decent length cycle without SERM use in your PCT? I would be fascinated to see the results.

 

[CaponeCEO]

You say you had 0 shutdown right. Did you get a blood work to prove your theory? And if you haven't, can you humor us all and get a blood work done after another decent length cycle without SERM use in your PCT? I would be fascinated to see the results.

My decent lenght cycle was prob half the length of a good cycle. Read above. Are you implying that every person who runs a cycle should be getting blood work done to "tell" them how they should feel?

 

[CaponeCEO]

Superdrol as a stand alone is a killer for me personally. I started it then stopped due to test flu and massive headaches. I had the unfinished cycle sitting around so I used it for a few weeks to precursor my Epi run. I don't see any harm in this IMO. To run a full S-Drol into Epi is not a good idea.

 

[gamer2be08]

My decent lenght cycle was prob half the length of a good cycle. Read above. Are you implying that every person who runs a cycle should be getting blood work done to "tell" them how they should feel?

How you may feel and what your hormonal levels are have something to do with each other to an extent, but it isnt everything. When I got off of a short lived m-drol/p-plex bridge, I felt amazing at the start and through most of my PCT; does that mean my T levels were normal after the cycle halted, hell no...

 

[CaponeCEO]

How you may feel and what your hormonal levels are have something to do with each other to an extent, but it isnt everything. When I got off of a short lived m-drol/p-plex bridge, I felt amazing at the start and through most of my PCT; does that mean my T levels were normal after the cycle halted, hell no...

So you went and got blood labs done just to see?

 

[gamer2be08]

I have, only once. After cycle. I should have gotten one before hand to see my baseline though. But after PCT on the blood test I had received after harsh methyls, everything was fine even though my prolactin levels were slightly elevated, but nothing to be too worried about.

 

[jmh80]

Actually I had 0 shutdown and have been at this game for quite a long time. I did't run the Superdrol for the full 4 weeks. I cut it down. I used the Epi for a full 4 weeks though. Epi isn't a staple for PCT, but bridging down from Superdrol it worked fine. I ran this last year and had 0 sides. I did of course use a test booster and novadex when I was done. I would have used Nolva had a felt the need. I also had P5P, lean xtreme, DHEA, and tribulus to add into the mix had I wanted/needed to.

Brah I've been at this for a while also and you CAN NOT feel shutdown. You can't definitively say sh*t about being shutdown without data.

Period.

It doesn't work that way. Lab test.

I'm not trying to knock you down but you need to be careful on here how you say things - we got a lot of impressionable young people that take everything we write as gospel.

 

[CaponeCEO]

I have, only once. After cycle. I should have gotten one before hand to see my baseline though. But after PCT on the blood test I had received after harsh methyls, everything was fine even though my prolactin levels were slightly elevated, but nothing to be too worried about.

It is def a hard question to answer. What really frees up Natty T the quickest. The hardest part is that it is different in everyone. When you start looking at the properties of SERMS and how they block estrogen only in certain tissues of the body you begin to wonder how that truly helps in the grand homeostasis of the T and E balance.

Did you take P5P for the increased prolactin?

 

[CaponeCEO]

Brah I've been at this for a while also and you CAN NOT feel shutdown. You can't definitively say sh*t about being shutdown without data.

Period.

It doesn't work that way. Lab test.

I'm not trying to knock you down but you need to be careful on here how you say things - we got a lot of impressionable young people that take everything we write as gospel.

If someone is looking at this site they will be hopefully at the point where they are in a learning and researching mode, not a brainlessly following mode. If shut down is only a lab finding then why do we all worry about it? From what I have learned shut down is something you will potentially feel. Some people feel it in different ways such as poor libido, low testicular volume, loss of morning erections,and a general reduction in thier sense of well being. I could be wrong buy maybe we need some definitive answers.

If what you are saying is true then to truly not be "shut down" you would need to have lab tests done before cycle, during cycle, after cycle, and months after cycle to determine if you experienced invisible shut down? And if a MD diagnosed you with low T levels then PCT would be PRN for some and mandatory for others?

 

[warbird01]

Actually I had 0 shutdown and have been at this game for quite a long time. I did't run the Superdrol for the full 4 weeks. I cut it down. I used the Epi for a full 4 weeks though. Epi isn't a staple for PCT, but bridging down from Superdrol it worked fine. I ran this last year and had 0 sides. I did of course use a test booster and novadex when I was done. I would have used Nolva had a felt the need. I also had P5P, lean xtreme, DHEA, and tribulus to add into the mix had I wanted/needed to.

wait. so you did run a serm and test booster after your epi "pct"?

wut.

Isnt that just an 8 weeks cycle then pct...?

My decent lenght cycle was prob half the length of a good cycle. Read above. Are you implying that every person who runs a cycle should be getting blood work done to "tell" them how they should feel?

Yes, I believe that you should get bloodwork with every cycle. Its the safe and responsible thing to do. While PH/DS may seem mild they are still steroids and potential dangerous and getting bloodwork is always a good idea to make sure you are back to normal after a cycle

You CANNOT TELL IF YOU TEST LEVELS ARE BACK TO NORMAL. when ppl say "they feel like they are back to normal" it really irks me. How do you know? Ive seen many ppl who "felt fine" on/after cycle or felt like their PH/DS was bunk only to get bloodwork and to find out they are shut down.

Moral of the story: If you take steroids you should be responsible and care about your body enough to get bloodwork.

 

[CaponeCEO]

wait. so you did run a serm and test booster after your epi "pct"?

wut.

Isnt that just an 8 weeks cycle then pct...?



Yes, I believe that you should get bloodwork with every cycle. Its the safe and responsible thing to do. While PH/DS may seem mild they are still steroids and potential dangerous and getting bloodwork is always a good idea to make sure you are back to normal after a cycle

You CANNOT TELL IF YOU TEST LEVELS ARE BACK TO NORMAL. when ppl say "they feel like they are back to normal" it really irks me. How do you know? Ive seen many ppl who "felt fine" on/after cycle or felt like their PH/DS was bunk only to get bloodwork and to find out they are shut down.

Moral of the story: If you take steroids you should be responsible and care about your body enough to get bloodwork.

Warbird, I ran 2 weeks of SDrol into 4 weeks of Epi. When i was done I took a test booster and Novadex xt. I did not take Nolva (Timoxifen Citrate). When I ran Epi as a stand alone I finished my cycle and had 0 sides. I figured I would run 2 weeks of SDrol into the same 4 weeks of Epi and see if I felt the same as I did when I stopped my stand alone Epi. Where as you are all correct that shut down is determined via blood test, there are also effects that can be clues to your body being shut down. Different people bounce back at different rates and this is why determining what best brings your body back to homeostasis is a hard question. I have always felt no need to have myself checked for shut down because I haven't seen any of the clues. Now if there was a chance that in 10 years I might have a 3 eyed kid because I had been in un-noticible shut down then I would be concerned and have a blood test. I don't see that happening. I would like to know the time frame for shut down to last. I know it depends on your age when cycling and your natural baseline and all, but it is a really hard topic to pinpoint.

 

[CaponeCEO]

Google: Do steriods cause permanent low testosterone levels. There is a good article that goes over alot of what we are talking about. I still would like to get more feedback on shut down. Much of what I have read says there will be indicators that you can feel, but the only way to clinically diagnose it is via blood work. Different people have been known to bounce back without any PCT, where as others could permanently screw themselves up, especially the young steriod users.

 

[gamer2be08]

Get a blood test and prove everyone wrong then...

 

[CaponeCEO]

Get a blood test and prove everyone wrong then...

I've had numerous general blood tests since then with no red flags. I'm not sure if they would do a SHBG test without a specific doctor order though. :trout: If thats the case ill consider it next time I run a cycle. Which prob wont be till 2011.

 

[GeekPoop]

Dont underestimate epi broseph, hes def. shut down.

But SERM def. gonna bring u back waaaay faster than anything otc

Ive ran epi w/o PCT. Accidently of course, but I was fine atleast I felt that way.

Oh and a side note about methyls, not all are created equal. Compare M1t / SD to halo or furaza

 

[warbird01]

Ive ran epi w/o PCT. Accidently of course, but I was fine atleast I felt that way.

Oh and a side note about methyls, not all are created equal. Compare M1t / SD to halo or furaza

guarantee you were shut down. i feel great on epi too, but still shut down.

And your body will almost always go back to homeostasis if you give it enough time

 

[GeekPoop]

guarantee you were shut down. i feel great on epi too, but still shut down.

And your body will almost always go back to homeostasis if you give it enough time

Yeah no doubt but to a lesser extent. Ive had testitcular hypertrophy to where it looked liked I had no balls (serious) big difference in teh way I felt here

PCT is a "newer" thing actually, 70's and 80's PCT was a rare thing! if you go to a gym where the old guys whove used aas in the past, ask them about pct. They'll give you blank looks lol

and i meant pmag not furaza lol.

 

[Gator 87]

Yeah no doubt but to a lesser extent. Ive had testitcular hypertrophy to where it looked liked I had no balls (serious) big difference in teh way I felt here

PCT is a "newer" thing actually, 70's and 80's PCT was a rare thing! if you go to a gym where the old guys whove used aas in the past, ask them about pct. They'll give you blank looks lol

and i meant pmag not furaza lol.

While testicular hypertrophy would no doubt be interesting, I think you meant atrophy.

 

[gamer2be08]

Yeah no doubt but to a lesser extent. Ive had testitcular hypertrophy to where it looked liked I had no balls (serious) big difference in teh way I felt here

PCT is a "newer" thing actually, 70's and 80's PCT was a rare thing! if you go to a gym where the old guys whove used aas in the past, ask them about pct. They'll give you blank looks lol

and i meant pmag not furaza lol.

Wow, thats some crazy testicular atrophy.. Mine arent any where near that bad on test/deca..

 

[GeekPoop]

While testicular hypertrophy would no doubt be interesting, I think you meant atrophy.

lol spelling ftl, but yea thanks

Wow, thats some crazy testicular atrophy.. Mine arent any where near that bad on test/deca..

I was using 250 iu HCG e3d and before dosing hcg, a sac / balls were non exsistant.

 

[gamer2be08]

lol spelling ftl, but yea thanks

I was using 250 iu HCG e3d and before dosing hcg, a sac / balls were non exsistant.

I think I would flip **** if I couldn't see my testes xD...

 

[GeekPoop]

I think I would flip **** if I couldn't see my testes xD...

it was a unique experience lol. made other stuff look bigger tho