Havoc OTC PCT - right?

[Huskers22]

Running Havoc for 20/30/30/30/40

PCT is
Reversitol 3/2/2/1
AI Post Cycle 0/0/4/4/4/4

Prior to adding Reversitol, I was planning on running following w/ Post Cycle. Do I still need to add them or is above sufficient? I see options supporting both arguments and a bit confused.

Weeks 1-2
AI Cycle Support - am & pm
I3C - 200mg x 3 times/day

Weeks 3-4
I3C - 200mg x 3/day

Weeks 5-8
Primaforce Androstenetrione - 400/300/200/100
DS Activate Xtreme - 2 in am & 2 in pm



Thanks,

 

[james1]

I'm a tad confused about what your asking. Are you asking if the weeks 1-8 supplements should be added to the pct of reversitol and ai pcs?

 

[Huskers22]

I'm a tad confused about what your asking. Are you asking if the weeks 1-8 supplements should be added to the pct of reversitol and ai pcs?

Yes, sorry. Am I good w/ just iFiorce Reversitol and AI Post Cycle or need to add listed items in week 1-8 as well? Will be starting Reversitol in Week 1.

I originally didn't plan on Reversitol when I planned this. Have heard great things on Reversitol so modifed my PCT so not confident on.
Thanks for the help

 

[james1]

Idk what your experience is but id drop it to a 4 week cycle of 30/30/40/40 instead of that 5 week cycle. considering your diet and training is good, that pct should do the trick. Adding the Activate xtreme to your pct would be a nice addition, so if you can afford it i would throw it in, its a great supplement. I would run a 4 week pct of the reversitol, AI PCS, and activate extreme all starting day after last havoc pill. And run the PCS until its empty. some people may recommend a serm, but recovering from havoc with otc pct was a breeze for me. goodluck

 

[james1]

is this your first run with something hormonal?

 

[Huskers22]

is this your first run with something hormonal?

No, first time w/ Epi though. I've ran 3AD/Mass FX and Tren/P6 Black in past. I will run Epi solo and stack w/ Tren on next round if I can find access to Nolva. I'm not sure whether to trust research chems these days and think it'd be a bit risky to use OTC PCT

 

[james1]

Yea you honestly should be fine without a serm on this one

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Really? I'm planning on running an 8 week run of Epi/11-oxo

Epi - 20/30/30/40/40/40
11-oxo(Icon)0/0/0/0/0/150/150/150

SERM or not?

 

[Huskers22]

Really? I'm planning on running an 8 week run of Epi/11-oxo

Epi - 20/30/30/40/40/40
11-oxo(Icon)0/0/0/0/0/150/150/150

SERM or not?

Are you planning on 11-oxo as your PCT? If so, I'd recommend more than that based on all I've read. This is my first Epi. I might reconsider 6 weeks of epi too if this is your first cycle. I feel I'm pushing it at 5 weeks but I'll cut it short if I don't feel right.

 

[james1]

Really? I'm planning on running an 8 week run of Epi/11-oxo

Epi - 20/30/30/40/40/40
11-oxo(Icon)0/0/0/0/0/150/150/150

SERM or not?

Thats really hard to say, how do you respond to epi? and how easily do you recover from epi? Serm or not is all user dependent, some can run superdrol without a serm, some get tits and raisin nuts from it. To be safe you can run nolva 20/20/10/10 or even 10/10/10/10. I like to run otc pct's but its better to be safe then sorry. really a judgement call on your part.

 

[Huskers22]

Idk what your experience is but id drop it to a 4 week cycle of 30/30/40/40 instead of that 5 week cycle. considering your diet and training is good, that pct should do the trick. Adding the Activate xtreme to your pct would be a nice addition, so if you can afford it i would throw it in, its a great supplement. I would run a 4 week pct of the reversitol, AI PCS, and activate extreme all starting day after last havoc pill. And run the PCS until its empty. some people may recommend a serm, but recovering from havoc with otc pct was a breeze for me. goodluck

so just to be clear, you're saying I can get by running the following weeks 1-4 after last dose of Havoc and be good?:

Reversitol: 3/2/2/1
Post Cycle: 4/4/4/4
Act. Xtreme: 4/4/4/4

Do I need to run LeanFX as a cort blocker?

I'm really confused now as read somewhere to start Post Cycle in Week 3 and Act Xtreme 2 weeks later to further boost test. Everyone's opions/posts are starting to jumble together and make me question my plan.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Are you planning on 11-oxo as your PCT? If so, I'd recommend more than that based on all I've read. This is my first Epi. I might reconsider 6 weeks of epi too if this is your first cycle. I feel I'm pushing it at 5 weeks but I'll cut it short if I don't feel right.

No i'm not planning on this as PCT. Just using it as a bridge. Yes this is my first run of Epi, and if **** starts to go south mid cycle I can always shorten it up to a 4 or 5 week cycle. Using that 11-oxo will help start my natty test levels to return on their own, but i'm planning on getting something else (which was the nature of my post). I'm using this cycle to lean up as I am currently cutting.

Thats really hard to say, how do you respond to epi? and how easily do you recover from epi? Serm or not is all user dependent, some can run superdrol without a serm, some get tits and raisin nuts from it. To be safe you can run nolva 20/20/10/10 or even 10/10/10/10. I like to run otc pct's but its better to be safe then sorry. really a judgement call on your part.

It's my first run of epi - I was thinking of picking up some toremifene. I guess either way it will be safe to have on hand. What kind of OTC's are typically used for epi?

 

[james1]

It's my first run of epi - I was thinking of picking up some toremifene. I guess either way it will be safe to have on hand. What kind of OTC's are typically used for epi?

It is a good idea to have to torem on hand. There are tons of great pct regimens. My most recent otc pct was CEL formestane, Diesel test hardcore, and CEL post cycle support. It was for a epi cycle, felt fully recovered after two weeks. ran the epi 30/30/30/40. These supps really did the job

 

[TheDarkHalf]

It is a good idea to have to torem on hand. There are tons of great pct regimens. My most recent otc pct was CEL formestane, Diesel test hardcore, and CEL post cycle support. It was for a epi cycle, felt fully recovered after two weeks. ran the epi 30/30/30/40. These supps really did the job

Well then I guess the larger question is are there certain PH/DS that require a SERM and some that do not? Or is this one of those things that all comes down to how they affect the individual?

 

[james1]

Well then I guess the larger question is are there certain PH/DS that require a SERM and some that do not? Or is this one of those things that all comes down to how they affect the individual?

Both, like compounds like pherplex, superdrol, m1t, i wouldnt think about without having a serm on hand. meanwhile hdrol, epistane, and p-mag, a serm wouldnt cross my mind. but it is more dependent on how each compound affects a certain individual.

 

[LAGear]

It is a good idea to have to torem on hand. There are tons of great pct regimens. My most recent otc pct was CEL formestane, Diesel test hardcore, and CEL post cycle support. It was for a epi cycle, felt fully recovered after two weeks. ran the epi 30/30/30/40. These supps really did the job

You know, I keep reading this and can't understand the logic for having a serm "on hand" but not using it.

I'm new to this game but as far as I can tell the only reasons not to use a serm are because you can't get one or are uncomfortable using research chemicals. In the U.S. neither of these should be an issue.

Why would you run a more expensive OTC PCT (especially expensive if you have torem on hand too, "just in case") rather than just running torem to begin with? The more I study the more it seems silly not to use a safe and effective serm like torem. Even for halo.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Both, like compounds like pherplex, superdrol, m1t, i wouldnt think about without having a serm on hand. meanwhile hdrol, epistane, and p-mag, a serm wouldnt cross my mind. but it is more dependent on how each compound affects a certain individual.

Well being that this is my first cycle, i'm finding it hard to decide whether or not I should actually spring for the SERM - now i'm that i'm reading it may or may not be necessary. Why would I want to drop $70 on something that I may or may not need, plus the expense of the OTC PCT as well.

You know, I keep reading this and can't understand the logic for having a serm "on hand" but not using it.

I'm new to this game but as far as I can tell the only reasons not to use a serm are because you can't get one or are uncomfortable using research chemicals. In the U.S. neither of these should be an issue.

Why would you run a more expensive OTC PCT (especially expensive if you have torem on hand too, "just in case") rather than just running torem to begin with? The more I study the more it seems silly not to use a safe and effective serm like torem. Even for halo.

Finally some logic here that makes sense.

 

[LAGear]

Finally some logic here that makes sense.

Thanks.

Sometimes I feel like this site is run by supplement company reps. I wish they had a rep-free zone where reps were not allowed to post. Where we could talk about things and not get hit with product plugs every other post. Or reps that tell you your cycle/PCT looks fine as long as you are using their product.

If you visit other sites you will get much different advice about serm usage.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Resversitol and Post Cycle Support should be ok here. Personally I would run Nolva 20/20/10/10 and Post Cycle Support. Good luck bro.

 

[ws65]

Ok, so what's the definitive answer for PCT for doing the Epi/11-oxo bridge...SERM or no SERM? (I got your back Dark!)

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Thanks.

Sometimes I feel like this site is run by supplement company reps. I wish they had a rep-free zone where reps were not allowed to post. Where we could talk about things and not get hit with product plugs every other post. Or reps that tell you your cycle/PCT looks fine as long as you are using their product.

If you visit other sites you will get much different advice about serm usage.

Ok, so what's the definitive answer for PCT for doing the Epi/11-oxo bridge...SERM or no SERM? (I got your back Dark!)

X2 to both of these posts!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Ok, so what's the definitive answer for PCT for doing the Epi/11-oxo bridge...SERM or no SERM? (I got your back Dark!)

Low dose SERM with a natty test booster.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Low dose SERM with a natty test booster.

I was planning on PCS and tore 40/40/20/20, that okay?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I was planning on PCS and tore 40/40/20/20, that okay?

That would work fine. I would wait to the second week of pct to start the PCS and run it for 4 weeks.

 

[LAGear]

That would work fine. I would wait to the second week of pct to start the PCS and run it for 4 weeks.

Why wait until the second week of PCT? Is that just for Havoc or any oral?

Seems like most people are starting PCS at the beginning of PCT. Is that wrong?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Why wait until the second week of PCT? Is that just for Havoc or any oral?

Seems like most people are starting PCS at the beginning of PCT. Is that wrong?

I suggest the 2nd or 3rd week because of the anti estrogen properties of PCS. It will help with any rebound. It is not a problem to start it right away it is just my personal preference.

 

[LAGear]

I suggest the 2nd or 3rd week because of the anti estrogen properties of PCS. It will help with any rebound. It is not a problem to start it right away it is just my personal preference.

You've lost me here. Starting PCS after one or two weeks will help prevent rebound better than starting it right away?

If you're starting a serm on day one of PCT then you're saying it's preferable to start PCS one or two weeks later?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

You've lost me here. Starting PCS after one or two weeks will help prevent rebound better than starting it right away?

If you're starting a serm on day one of PCT then you're saying it's preferable to start PCS one or two weeks later?

Yes that is what I am saying. Most people use a anti-e on the tail end of a pct. PCS has anti-e properties and if you start it week 3 then in weeks 5-6 after the SERM is stopped you have the PCS for any rebound is estro

 

[LAGear]

Yes that is what I am saying. Most people use a anti-e on the tail end of a pct. PCS has anti-e properties and if you start it week 3 then in weeks 5-6 after the SERM is stopped you have the PCS for any rebound is estro

OK. Now that makes sense.

I was going to run serm + PCS in weeks 1-4 of PCT and run 6-oxo in weeks 3-6. But I decided against 6-oxo for a number of reasons. So instead of 6-oxo in weeks 3-6 sounds like I should run PCS in weeks 3-6.

With 6-oxo (or any AI) most people recommend tapering it down to prevent rebound. Is there any reason to taper PCS or should I take four caps ED for the entire run?

Thanks for your help!

 

[TheDarkHalf]

OK. Now that makes sense.

I was going to run serm + PCS in weeks 1-4 of PCT and run 6-oxo in weeks 3-6. But I decided against 6-oxo for a number of reasons. So instead of 6-oxo in weeks 3-6 sounds like I should run PCS in weeks 3-6.

With 6-oxo (or any AI) most people recommend tapering it down to prevent rebound. Is there any reason to taper PCS or should I take four caps ED for the entire run?

Thanks for your help!

I'm planning on running a SERM in weeks 1-4, and starting Lean Xtreme, Activate Xtreme, and PCS for weeks 2-6

 

[LAGear]

I'm planning on running a SERM in weeks 1-4, and starting Lean Xtreme, Activate Xtreme, and PCS for weeks 2-6

Activate Xtreme is a natty test booster and should be started on day one of PCT. At least that's what most people do. Why are you waiting a week to start it?

As for LX and PCS you are setting yourself up for a very expensive PCT. Five weeks will require two bottles of each unless you underdose to stretch your bottles out for five weeks.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Activate Xtreme is a natty test booster and should be started on day one of PCT. At least that's what most people do. Why are you waiting a week to start it?

As for LX and PCS you are setting yourself up for a very expensive PCT. Five weeks will require two bottles of each unless you underdose to stretch your bottles out for five weeks.

Someone once told me that if you can't afford to spend some change on a solid PCT then you shouldn't bother with a cycle. And I meant to put that I was going to run each side by side for 4 weeks not 5.

really when I start the AX will all be dependent upon how bad I shutdown, if any.

 

[LAGear]

Someone once told me that if you can't afford to spend some change on a solid PCT then you shouldn't bother with a cycle. And I meant to put that I was going to run each side by side for 4 weeks not 5.

really when I start the AX will all be dependent upon how bad I shutdown, if any.

I could be wrong about this but your serm is to help reverse shutdown and the test booster is to help you keep your gains. Of course a test booster will help with reversing shutdown but I think it's primary roll in PCT is to help you keep gains.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

OK. Now that makes sense.

I was going to run serm + PCS in weeks 1-4 of PCT and run 6-oxo in weeks 3-6. But I decided against 6-oxo for a number of reasons. So instead of 6-oxo in weeks 3-6 sounds like I should run PCS in weeks 3-6.

With 6-oxo (or any AI) most people recommend tapering it down to prevent rebound. Is there any reason to taper PCS or should I take four caps ED for the entire run?

Thanks for your help!

No need to taper the PCS just run it 2 caps a.m. and 2 caps p.m. I do this because I still want the test boosting.