Toremifene for propecia gyno?

AFOX

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After only 2 weeks on propecia, I have a sore hard lump in my left nipple. This sucks, as I have run many PH cycles over the years, and have never gotten gyno.
I just ordered Toremifene, and was wondering how I should run it for this kind of gyno?
 
thesinner

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Why don't you just discontinue use and tell your doctor that the propecia he's given you is causing a hard lump to form?

Propecia and avodart are 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors. They stop the production of DHT, which can in turn increase the production of estrogen. This is a common side effect of these drugs, and there are alternative medications. I've never really been a fan of 4-azasteroids.

There's no sense in self-medicating. Taking a SERM is only going to increase production of estrogens, and now you've added the side effects that come with taking the SERM as well as the ones with the 4-azasteroid. You and/or your insurance company are paying out the ass for your doctor to prescribe you this stuff, you might as well have him fix it too.
 

AFOX

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Why don't you just discontinue use and tell your doctor that the propecia he's given you is causing a hard lump to form?

Propecia and avodart are 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors. They stop the production of DHT, which can in turn increase the production of estrogen. This is a common side effect of these drugs, and there are alternative medications. I've never really been a fan of 4-azasteroids.

There's no sense in self-medicating. Taking a SERM is only going to increase production of estrogens, and now you've added the side effects that come with taking the SERM as well as the ones with the 4-azasteroid. You and/or your insurance company are paying out the ass for your doctor to prescribe you this stuff, you might as well have him fix it too.
Thanks for the reply. I guess I'm damned if I do , damned if I don't. The propecia has stopped 100% of my shedding, and nothing else has worked, so I want to stay on it. I'm confused about the serm and the increase in estrogen. I thought that it decreased estogen in the body. And I also thought that you should take a serm if you have signs of gyno. Should i go with an AI instead, as I have a bottel of Novedex XT on hand? I'm hoping that my hormones balance out eventually on propecia. Propecia is my last hope of keeping my hair, so I'm in it for the long haul.
 
thesinner

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SERMs block specific estrogen receptors, some of which increase the rate of steroidogenesis, thereby leading to an increase in estrogen.

As for the AI's, they decrease the enzyme necessary for estrogen production. They're pretty much the opposite of finasteride. Testosterone has two metabolites: DHT and Estradiol. You take a 4-azasteroid, you decrease DHT and increase estrogen. You take an AI, you will decrease estrogen and increase DHT. In the case of AI's, however, the decrease in estrogen causes a positive-feedback loop, increasing testosterone levels, which leads to a dose-dependent increase in both DHT and Estradiol (both undesireable). You can see this in the Baylor studies on 6-oxo. Like I said in my last post, adding more to the equation (i.e. self-medicating) is only going to lead to further complications.

I strongly recommend talking to the doc, perhaps look into decreasing the dosage. Decreasing the dose is going to accomplish the same thing as your self-medicating ideas are trying to accomplish, but without taking more crap. If a lower dosage isn't giving you the results you need, you might be able to compliment it with a topical, as the drug should make you more responsive to them.
 

AFOX

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SERMs block specific estrogen receptors, some of which increase the rate of steroidogenesis, thereby leading to an increase in estrogen.

As for the AI's, they decrease the enzyme necessary for estrogen production. They're pretty much the opposite of finasteride. Testosterone has two metabolites: DHT and Estradiol. You take a 4-azasteroid, you decrease DHT and increase estrogen. You take an AI, you will decrease estrogen and increase DHT. In the case of AI's, however, the decrease in estrogen causes a positive-feedback loop, increasing testosterone levels, which leads to a dose-dependent increase in both DHT and Estradiol (both undesireable). You can see this in the Baylor studies on 6-oxo. Like I said in my last post, adding more to the equation (i.e. self-medicating) is only going to lead to further complications.

I strongly recommend talking to the doc, perhaps look into decreasing the dosage. Decreasing the dose is going to accomplish the same thing as your self-medicating ideas are trying to accomplish, but without taking more crap. If a lower dosage isn't giving you the results you need, you might be able to compliment it with a topical, as the drug should make you more responsive to them.
Thanks alot for the info man. I don't think they make a dose lower than the 1mg I'm taking right now.The lump is not noticeable yet, and really not that sore, so maybe my body will adjust my hormone levels overtime. I will save the Toremifene for a future cycle. I don't think I'm gyno prone, so I will just keep taking the propecia, and if it gets worse, I will discontinue.
 

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