increasing offshore drilling

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    increasing offshore drilling


    How does everyone here feel about the idea of increasing offshore oil drilling? On one hand I feel we need to focus more on making alternative energy/fuel sources more commonplace,
    for the sake of our future economy as well as the environment. On the other hand, oil being as essential as it has been since the industrial evolution, and the position this country is in with both the middle east and venezuela, I understand the need to find more local oil for now. The key phrase on my mind here is 'for now.' I don't believe that if we gave big oil the privelage and the means to drill for oil off of more of our coast lines that they wouldn't take a mile for every inch we were willing to give. How do you feel about it?
    Last edited by Nightwanderer; 06-24-2008 at 09:19 PM. Reason: wanted to ad a poll, but couldn't.

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    I'm all for drilling offshore. Only problem is it will take time. I just found a recent article here in Delaware however on alternate energy sources. Delmarva power just signed a contract with Blue Power (I think thats the name of the company) to make a large wind farm about 50-70 miles off the coast of Delaware. First of its kind in the US if it goes through. It'll be completed by 2012 as long as Blue Power can find a few more financial backers. It has the support of the Delaware State Legislature, so we'll see how that goes.
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    Offshore drilling is a waste of time, money and the environment. There's at best 2 yrs worth of oil in the gulf. and its not like the oil companys will flood the market with cheap gas, prices will stay the same, it will just delay the enevitable. When we must run our cars without petroleum
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    Future has a point. 2 years of oil in the Gulf which will take 10 years of permitting and construction to access (provided we approved the drilling). Not to mention China is sucking it out like a straw across the table at a steak and shake...

    The impact to the environment is really negligible. The technology and durability of today's rigs makes them very sound. They can be sheared off the borehole and not spill a drop with the quick cut off systems they have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    Offshore drilling is a waste of time, money and the environment. There's at best 2 yrs worth of oil in the gulf. and its not like the oil companys will flood the market with cheap gas, prices will stay the same, it will just delay the enevitable. When we must run our cars without petroleum
    Did you know Hitler converted much of his army's vehicles to run off of methanol in case gas/diesel supplies were cutoff? It doesnt release the same power when burned but hell its cheap.
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric

    Check out the news for 2008
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    IF there were enough oil to help tide us over until alternative energies get online, I would be all over it. However, it seems the Gulf has more prospects for natural gas rather than oil production.

    Despite suffering from higher prices like everyone else, I am enjoying seeing millions of bright minds spark to life attempting to solve our energy dilema. Necessity is the mother of all invention .
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    IF there were enough oil to help tide us over until alternative energies get online, I would be all over it. .
    There is. Counting the oil off the east and west cost as well as the world largest oil shale deposits we have fomr Colorado to Canada and couting ANWR.


    Whatr is stupid is to deny US compoanies to extract a valuable resources before it becomes obsolete.

    Here is an idea, invest in new technology and extract oil and sell it to other countries. You know, make money? We can't do that though...money is evil.


    "The MMS estimates that the quantity of undiscovered technically recoverable resources ranges from 66.6 to 115.3 billion barrels of oil and 326.4 to 565.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The mean or average estimate is 85.9 billion barrels of oil and 419.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. These volumes of UTRR for the OCS represent about 60 percent of the total oil and 40 percent of the total natural gas estimated to be contained in undiscovered fields in the United States. The mean estimates for both oil and gas increased about 15 percent compared to the 2001 assessment. For the oil resources, the vast majority of this increase occurred in the deepwater areas of the Gulf of Mexico, while for gas resources the majority of the increase was in deep gas plays located beneath the shallow water shelf of the Gulf of Mexico."




    All the government has to do is mention the fact that we are opening those areas up and the speculators/investors would go running to the hills. Oil would drop by 30% by the mere commitment to drill.
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    Here is an idea...have the government drill themselves and have them sell it on the open market to fund the infrastructure upgrade you need to actually support electric cars.


    Nah..that makes to much sense.



    Here is another idea....lift the retarded sanction we have on Brazil for importing ethanol (nah..can't do that..free trade agreements hurt us )...invest in sugar cane crops in the Caribbean to produce our own sugar cane based ethanol. You can make every Caribbean island the Saudi Arabia of sugar cane ethanol. Nah...makes too much sense.



    What do they do instead? Subsidize corn ethanol that makes us use 30% of our corn crop for 3% of our fuel. We got real Einsteins in Congress now passing the new farm bill.
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    Agreed. There are so many better ways to tackle the problem and all we get out of both sides of the isle are some stupid ethanol mandates that drive up the cost of food and fuel and taxes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    Here is an idea...have the government drill themselves and have them sell it on the open market to fund the infrastructure upgrade you need to actually support electric cars.


    Nah..that makes to much sense.



    Here is another idea....lift the retarded sanction we have on Brazil for importing ethanol (nah..can't do that..free trade agreements hurt us )...invest in sugar cane crops in the Caribbean to produce our own sugar cane based ethanol. You can make every Caribbean island the Saudi Arabia of sugar cane ethanol. Nah...makes too much sense.



    What do they do instead? Subsidize corn ethanol that makes us use 30% of our corn crop for 3% of our fuel. We got real Einsteins in Congress now passing the new farm bill.
    GOOD POINTS! I AGREE 100% We should go get that oil, but mandate improvements on fuel usage across the board. There's a lot the US can do but won't, because the special interest has their hands deep up those politicans ass. They rather let people starve than do the right thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    Here is an idea...have the government drill themselves and have them sell it on the open market to fund the infrastructure upgrade you need to actually support electric cars.


    Nah..that makes to much sense.



    Here is another idea....lift the retarded sanction we have on Brazil for importing ethanol (nah..can't do that..free trade agreements hurt us )...invest in sugar cane crops in the Caribbean to produce our own sugar cane based ethanol. You can make every Caribbean island the Saudi Arabia of sugar cane ethanol. Nah...makes too much sense.



    What do they do instead? Subsidize corn ethanol that makes us use 30% of our corn crop for 3% of our fuel. We got real Einsteins in Congress now passing the new farm bill.
    Holy crap clown, I think your politics and history knowledge is about to surpass your bbing and nutrition knowledge LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    Offshore drilling is a waste of time, money and the environment. There's at best 2 yrs worth of oil in the gulf. and its not like the oil companys will flood the market with cheap gas, prices will stay the same, it will just delay the enevitable. When we must run our cars without petroleum
    Could you site your reference?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    Could you site your reference?

    You can find the info anywhere, i dont have a specific reference i used. But estimates are that there is anywhere from 3-15 Billion barrels of oil/natural gas in the gulf, and thats in the lower tertiary fields, which have yet to be proven that their even viable options for consistant supply. The U.S. uses 7-8 billion barrels a year, so at best there is 2 yrs worth of oil, at best.

    The environmental concerns are obvious, you have to disturb the ocean floor, which harbors life, possibly undiscovered life at that depth, and while the likelyhood of an oil spill is very small, its not impossible.

    And as far as oil companies controlling gas prices? That goes without saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    You can find the info anywhere, i dont have a specific reference i used. But estimates are that there is anywhere from 3-15 Billion barrels of oil/natural gas in the gulf, and thats in the lower tertiary fields, which have yet to be proven that their even viable options for consistant supply. The U.S. uses 7-8 billion barrels a year, so at best there is 2 yrs worth of oil, at best.

    The environmental concerns are obvious, you have to disturb the ocean floor, which harbors life, possibly undiscovered life at that depth, and while the likelyhood of an oil spill is very small, its not impossible.

    And as far as oil companies controlling gas prices? That goes without saying.

    DOn't know where you are getting your number from but according to the Continental Shelf Oil and Gas Assessment of 2006:

    " The MMS has completed an assessment of the undiscovered technically recoverable resources (UTRR) underlying offshore waters on the Outer Continental Shelf (OCS). This assessment was based on information available as of January 1, 2003, including information obtained from new exploration activities.

    The MMS estimates that the quantity of undiscovered technically recoverable resources ranges from 66.6 to 115.3 billion barrels of oil and 326.4 to 565.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The mean or average estimate is 85.9 billion barrels of oil and 419.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. These volumes of UTRR for the OCS represent about 60 percent of the total oil and 40 percent of the total natural gas estimated to be contained in undiscovered fields in the United States. The mean estimates for both oil and gas increased about 15 percent compared to the 2001 assessment. For the oil resources, the vast majority of this increase occurred in the deepwater areas of the Gulf of Mexico, while for gas resources the majority of the increase was in deep gas plays located beneath the shallow water shelf of the Gulf of Mexico.

    These estimates represent the potential quantities of undiscovered hydrocarbons that can be conventionally produced using existing or reasonably foreseeable technology, without any consideration of economic feasibility. Current technology includes drilling in water in excess of 3000 meters (10,000 feet) deep and to subsea depths in excess of 9600 meters (31,700 feet).

    MMS periodically conducts comprehensive assessments of the undiscovered oil and gas resources on the OCS. The last comprehensive inventory was completed in 2001, with an interim update in 2003 to reflect significant changes in natural gas potential in the Gulf of Mexico. The resource assessments also include production and reserve estimates for the OCS as well as estimates of undiscovered economically recoverable resources. Undiscovered economically recoverable resources (UERR), presented in the form of price-supply curves, represent the portion of the undiscovered technically recoverable hydrocarbons that can be explored, developed and commercially produced at given costs and price considerations."



    http://www.mms.gov/revaldiv/PDFs/200...ntBrochure.pdf



    Tell the people in the midwest who have to drive 40 miles a day to work they have to continue to pay $4-5/gallon of gas because environmentalists don't want to disturb the ocean floor.

    ..and that's a pipe dream anyway because China, Russian and India are going to drill anyway.
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    And lets not forget the Bakken Formation that estimates around 92-413 billion barrels of oil could be extracted from oil shale.

    https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndgs/bakken/n...eEstimates.pdf



    The current estimates is that the oil we could recover form oil shale is about 3x that of Saudi Arabia's reserves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    Y

    And as far as oil companies controlling gas prices? That goes without saying.
    Right The largest holder of oil in the US right now is Morgan Stanley. When the price of oil goes up, the oil companies margins go down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    Right The largest holder of oil in the US right now is Morgan Stanley. When the price of oil goes up, the oil companies margins go down.

    You would be hard pressed to find a major oil company thats not vertically integrated, the price of oil that you see paraded across tickers on news stations in not reflective of the oil that was used to make the gas in my car right now.

    An investment group holding commodities has little to do with actualcost. The cost of open market oil is not directly related to the actual cost of oil/gas. Its an immaginary number created by investment firms and hysteria in the media.

    That would be like McDonalds raising their prices because corn or chicken went up, its not relative. McDonalds, much like most oil companies, is vertically integrated. They are not dependant on outside sources for the bulk of their supply.

    And that study you posted was done in 2001. Heres just one i found, theres many more, its common knowledge.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14678206/


    What the are you talking about oil margins go down? Oil companies have been the most profitable EVER in recent years. I cant honestly fathom how you would think that oil companies arent making record profits right now.
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    there is a price for everything.....even drilling in wildlife refuges.
    we are just now finally getting near the price threshold where this debate has surfaced.
    eventually it will be too expensive to not drill there, and it will be opened.
    if i was an environmentalist, i would be more concerned with the remainder of the planet who has no concerns about drilling anything that has potential.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    And lets not forget the Bakken Formation that estimates around 92-413 billion barrels of oil could be extracted from oil shale.

    https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndgs/bakken/n...eEstimates.pdf



    The current estimates is that the oil we could recover form oil shale is about 3x that of Saudi Arabia's reserves.
    yes, this is true but as it stands today much of these unconventional reserves are still unrecoverable.
    it is going to require significant technology improvements to bring down the extraction costs down along with needing much higher crude prices to make the projects profitable.

    barnett shale in texas, rockies, and the oil sands in canada are our first major sources of unconventional supply to come online. but extracting these is very expensive today - for example the oil sands requires one barrel of oil in energy costs just to bring two out of the ground.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    Here is an idea...have the government drill themselves and have them sell it on the open market to fund the infrastructure upgrade you need to actually support electric cars.


    Nah..that makes to much sense.
    electric cars might not be the answer. it requires fuel (coal, oil, natural gas, nukes) to create electricity = expensive power (nuclear is cheap though but not cool w/people yet). currently the majority of electricity generation in the world is coal fired = extremly dirty. so from an environmental standpoint electric cars might not be such a good thing.
    focusing on efficiencies and conservation is the best option we have today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    Here is another idea....lift the retarded sanction we have on Brazil for importing ethanol (nah..can't do that..free trade agreements hurt us )...invest in sugar cane crops in the Caribbean to produce our own sugar cane based ethanol. You can make every Caribbean island the Saudi Arabia of sugar cane ethanol. Nah...makes too much sense.



    What do they do instead? Subsidize corn ethanol that makes us use 30% of our corn crop for 3% of our fuel. We got real Einsteins in Congress now passing the new farm bill.
    ethanol production and the sanctions against imports is a perfect example of the powerful agricultural lobiests we have in our country influencing our government.
    the environmentally friendly angle made it an easy sell to convince the ignorant public to spend tax $$ on this ridiculous scam.
    ethanol is an unsustainable business without government funding.....so who does it cost? you and me when we pay our taxes to support this silly industry and still fill our tank for $4/gal and pay for food at astronmical prices due to increased corn cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    eventually it will be too expensive to not drill there, and it will be opened.
    Hopefully more people ask for alternative fuel sources instead of furthering the staus quo by looking for more oil to string us along untill theres no oil to be had for under $10 a gallon, which is almost a reality in germany, who pays $8-9 a gallon. those kind of prices would grind this economy to a halt. We are, for better or worse, a petro based society, our infrastructure demands gas.

    We have become like crack heads for oil. If you know anything about addiction we are in the middle of withdrawl, looking for our next fix, untill our next fix, which doesnt address the root of our problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    Hopefully more people ask for alternative fuel sources instead of furthering the staus quo by looking for more oil to string us along untill theres no oil to be had for under $10 a gallon, which is almost a reality in germany, who pays $8-9 a gallon. those kind of prices would grind this economy to a halt. We are, for better or worse, a petro based society, our infrastructure demands gas.

    We have become like crack heads for oil. If you know anything about addiction we are in the middle of withdrawl, looking for our next fix, untill our next fix, which doesnt address the root of our problems.
    brining alternatives to market has nothing to do with having more people ask for them and everything to do with economics.
    if alternatives cost less than oil, then and only then will we use them.
    at current energy prices we are starting to see increased investment in alternatives. but even at today's prices fossil fuel is very cheap relative to other sources.
    to further transition over to alternative sources it will require fossil fuels become even more expensive along with technology imporvements to make alternatives cheaper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Vangut View Post
    to further transition over to alternative sources it will require fossil fuels become even more expensive along with technology imporvements to make alternatives cheaper.
    True.

    But the more people ask, the more they get. It no one speaks up about using other fuel sources, we'll never see a change.

    We also need to change our mindset of how "green" is bad. And driving a prius is for pu$$ys. Being aware of the effect you have on the world around you is being a better man than just following the lambs to the slaughter.

    I do realize that a certain amount of pollution is neccessary in the world we've made for ourselves, but it can be counteracted by being responsible stewards of the only planet we have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    DOn't know where you are getting your number from but according to the Continental Shelf Oil and Gas Assessment of 2006:

    " The MMS has completed an assessment of the undiscovered technically recoverable resources (UTRR) underlying offshore waters on the Outer Continental Shelf (OCS). This assessment was based on information available as of January 1, 2003, including information obtained from new exploration activities.

    The MMS estimates that the quantity of undiscovered technically recoverable resources ranges from 66.6 to 115.3 billion barrels of oil and 326.4 to 565.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The mean or average estimate is 85.9 billion barrels of oil and 419.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. These volumes of UTRR for the OCS represent about 60 percent of the total oil and 40 percent of the total natural gas estimated to be contained in undiscovered fields in the United States. The mean estimates for both oil and gas increased about 15 percent compared to the 2001 assessment. For the oil resources, the vast majority of this increase occurred in the deepwater areas of the Gulf of Mexico, while for gas resources the majority of the increase was in deep gas plays located beneath the shallow water shelf of the Gulf of Mexico.

    These estimates represent the potential quantities of undiscovered hydrocarbons that can be conventionally produced using existing or reasonably foreseeable technology, without any consideration of economic feasibility. Current technology includes drilling in water in excess of 3000 meters (10,000 feet) deep and to subsea depths in excess of 9600 meters (31,700 feet).

    MMS periodically conducts comprehensive assessments of the undiscovered oil and gas resources on the OCS. The last comprehensive inventory was completed in 2001, with an interim update in 2003 to reflect significant changes in natural gas potential in the Gulf of Mexico. The resource assessments also include production and reserve estimates for the OCS as well as estimates of undiscovered economically recoverable resources. Undiscovered economically recoverable resources (UERR), presented in the form of price-supply curves, represent the portion of the undiscovered technically recoverable hydrocarbons that can be explored, developed and commercially produced at given costs and price considerations."



    http://www.mms.gov/revaldiv/PDFs/200...ntBrochure.pdf



    Tell the people in the midwest who have to drive 40 miles a day to work they have to continue to pay $4-5/gallon of gas because environmentalists don't want to disturb the ocean floor.

    ..and that's a pipe dream anyway because China, Russian and India are going to drill anyway.
    Well said, I was happy to refute the gentlemen's two year assertation with my own references I merely wanted him to post a link to the seirra club or ICCC's websites prior to my response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    Well said, I was happy to refute the gentlemen's two year assertation with my own references I merely wanted him to post a link to the seirra club or ICCC's websites prior to my response.

    That "proof" that your applauding is an outdated reference to possible oil that they may be able to use.

    Please post whatever references you have to refute my, already proven by the oil companies themselves, assertion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    That "proof" that your applauding is an outdated reference to possible oil that they may be able to use.

    Please post whatever references you have to refute my, already proven by the oil companies themselves, assertion.
    I'd like to review your references for the statement of fact you have made, aside from the links to a msnbc and wikipedia neither of which say that the proven reserves of light sweet crude (or any other grade for that matter) amounts to absolutely no more than 2,288,000,000 barrels. After doing so I could make a response as well as provide contrary references. The entire issue is moot if you can't provide information. The gentlemen with the soup did so and your response was, "This is outdated", again without providing supportive evidence. Of course, it would be easy enough to say "In my opinion there is only 2.228 billion balles of oil in the gulf because thats the general impression i get from Chris Matthews opining". That in itself would be at least a starting point for an open assessment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    I'd like to review your references for the statement of fact you have made, aside from the links to a msnbc and wikipedia neither of which say that the proven reserves of light sweet crude (or any other grade for that matter) amounts to absolutely no more than 2,288,000,000 barrels.
    Wikipedia? Are you reading the same thread i am? And where did you get 2.288 billion barrels? Once again, are you reading the same thread i am?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    After doing so I could make a response as well as provide contrary references. The entire issue is moot if you can't provide information.
    Since you have provided no information for support....what is your point again?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    response was, "This is outdated", again without providing supportive evidence.
    The evidence is in the date that it was done..I dont get where your going with this. It was an estimate from 7-8 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by dave12 View Post
    Chris Matthews opining".
    I dont know who that is but im guessing he works for fox news if your talking badly about him.


    So let's recap...what the hell are you talking about? Im willing to openly discuss this with you if promise to make coherent posts from hence forth.
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    good to see I've sparked some good discussion, and it's still a civil atmosphere even! *knocks on wood*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwanderer View Post
    and it's still a civil atmosphere even! *knocks on wood*

    Maybe you can explain what dave's talking about...cause i cant. But dont worry....ill behave myself.
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    USGS survey puts Anwr at approx 10.4 billion barrels, I've heard larger #'s stated on local newscast either way thats enough to think about, only problem is do you really think any of that oil will stay domestic? As it is we (in AK) pay more for fuel than most places diesel is up to $5.33 now (there is a refinery less than 100 miles from my town) and i don't think its going down anytime soon. When the minister of Opec states that according to supply and demand oil should be about $70 per barrel and now he says it could go as high as $175 a barrel, its all a game to the players that control the oil, case in point Exxon and the Supreme circus ruling last week. It's all lip service from the Bush administration on down & we are over the barrel.
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    So if the government allows offshore drilling than what company in their right mind is gonna pump it out and sell a product worth $125 a barrel for anything less than $125 a barrel? Our government? Yeah right, the same government that makes claims of $50,000 toilet seat expenditures is just gonna give away cheap gas. Think again, Mccain is only blowing campain smoke up our tailpipes.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    Im not to fond of taking serm's for long periods of time....
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    That "proof" that your applauding is an outdated reference to possible oil that they may be able to use.

    Please post whatever references you have to refute my, already proven by the oil companies themselves, assertion.

    Yes, possible and for the most part a given to most geological experts. The only problem is companies are FORBIDDEN TO FIND OUT.


    SO that's you whole argument. There might be some there and we think that in lieu of the environmental issues we think oil companies shouldn't even be allowed to find out because we might disturb the ocean floor. Wow.


    Real great strategy there.


    The number you posted are the guaranteed finds that could be tapped probably within a year to two years because the infrastructure is already present. All they would have to do is move the platforms which by most accounts would take about a full year to be up and running and pumping oil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmmah View Post
    So if the government allows offshore drilling than what company in their right mind is gonna pump it out and sell a product worth $125 a barrel for anything less than $125 a barrel? Our government? Yeah right, the same government that makes claims of $50,000 toilet seat expenditures is just gonna give away cheap gas. Think again, Mccain is only blowing campain smoke up our tailpipes.
    Obviously you don't trade oil or know the margins of the oil companies. When the price goes up there margins go DOWN. When they have record profits they have record expenses. But that's ok, because if you really want to go down the route you suggest, get ready for $9/gallon of gallon for the next 10 years while your tax money get spent on "research".
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    You would be hard pressed to find a major oil company thats not vertically integrated, the price of oil that you see paraded across tickers on news stations in not reflective of the oil that was used to make the gas in my car right now.

    Really? I didnt know that


    Thats because most comapnies can't pass the 100% increase in oil to the customer. So what happens then...they don't make as much.

    An investment group holding commodities has little to do with actualcost. The cost of open market oil is not directly related to the actual cost of oil/gas. Its an immaginary number created by investment firms and hysteria in the media.

    Really and by what trading expertise did you come by this because last time I wanted to buy a couple futures contracts the price was reflected on the ask/bid. The largest companies that use oil purchase oil in futures market to lock in the price. SO when those large companies take delivery 6 months later you actually think the price isn't reflective of supply/demand?

    Why don't you ask Southwest airlines how they are doing with their hedging.

    Then ask the entire airlines industry why they going under then tell them the price is imaginary.



    That would be like McDonalds raising their prices because corn or chicken went up, its not relative. McDonalds, much like most oil companies, is vertically integrated. They are not dependant on outside sources for the bulk of their supply.

    Completely false. They are hedged with past futures prices or locked in prices that usually spand about 6 months. And last time I checked, Mcdonalds did raise prices, just in China. Same with General Mills and every other company in which margins are going down because of commodity prices. Prices have went up across the board.


    And that study you posted was done in 2001. Heres just one i found, theres many more, its common knowledge.

    Oil companies see big Gulf of Mexico discovery - Oil & energy - MSNBC.com

    That's not a study, that's an article talking about small leased sections of land that oil companies already have access too. The study I posted takes into account the lands that are blocked from oil companies (by legislation) and they can't even test drill to find out the quantities available. That's the problem..the government won't even allow companies to test drill or even find out whats available when every geological survey shows there are massive amounts there. East Coast, West Coast, Gulf of Mexico...do you think oil is only in the Gulf?

    If you are going to actually research an area in which I trade, please go a bit further than MSNBC and the small amounts of already leased land available. But then again what do you expect from MSNBC....


    What the are you talking about oil margins go down? Oil companies have been the most profitable EVER in recent years. I cant honestly fathom how you would think that oil companies arent making record profits right now.
    In recent years when a barrel of oil was $70. When the price goes parabolic, there operating costs go up...drastically. You do understand it takes oil to refine gasoline right?

    You do understand it takes oil and energy to drill right?

    What they drill today has been sold for months already and waiting for shipment so when they are locked in at $100 a barrel but their energy and shipping costs are working on a market in which energy has risen 20% do you think they are making less or more money. DO you think Opec raising production and saying its speculators causing the problem is because they want the price to go up?

    "In the United States, refining margins were down at the end of December about a third from their peak in 2007, according to a report from Bloomberg News. BP, the British petroleum giant, announced this month that lower U.S. refining margins helped contribute to a fourth-quarter refining and marketing loss of $1.8 billion. Refining margins also have been hurting Exxon and another big U.S. oil company, Chevron."


    Why don't you ask why Exxon is getting out of the retail gasoline business and why don't you tell me why the largest integrated oil stocks (Western oil companies) haven't climbed in the same fashion the price of oil has. Because everyone doing valuations on these companies know their margins and profits can't sustain this parabolic climb in the price of oil.

    These companies make the most when the price of crude is $60-80 a barrel. Their profit margins are going to go from around 10% to 8% with the current price.


    When oil goes up 100%, but gasoline only goes up 30%, you think they make more money?

    Exxon to exit U.S. retail gas business - Forbes.com


    XOM - Exxon Mobil Corporation - Google Finance

    BP - BP plc (ADR) - Google Finance

    CVX - Chevron Corporation - Google Finance


    There are your 3 big Western Oil Companies. What direction is their stock price going form 2004?

    http://www.petda.org/documents/indus..._Feb172008.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bering C View Post
    USGS survey puts Anwr at approx 10.4 billion barrels, I've heard larger #'s stated on local newscast either way thats enough to think about, only problem is do you really think any of that oil will stay domestic? As it is we (in AK) pay more for fuel than most places diesel is up to $5.33 now (there is a refinery less than 100 miles from my town) and i don't think its going down anytime soon. When the minister of Opec states that according to supply and demand oil should be about $70 per barrel and now he says it could go as high as $175 a barrel, its all a game to the players that control the oil, case in point Exxon and the Supreme circus ruling last week. It's all lip service from the Bush administration on down & we are over the barrel.
    Exxon's refining margins are down. The Supreme Court is not ruled by Bush (as he lost a case two weeks ago about prisoners in Gitmo).

    Most US refineries are not setup to produce diesel. Its a very small percentage.

    Now, we could build more refineries to do this...oh wait..no we can't. Congress has blocked that. The environmentalists don't like it.

    When we go and buy that 87-93 octane, China buys diesel. Now we could drill, refine that oil into diesel and sell it..oh wait...Congress has blocked that too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    you whole argument.


    The number you posted are the guaranteed finds that could be tapped probably within a year to two years because the infrastructure is already present. All they would have to do is move the platforms which by most accounts would take about a full year to be up and running and pumping oil.

    My argument is that im going to be alive, hopefully, longer than 7 more years. that would be 5 years to get the legislation passed, drill for it, process it, and make it into my gas tank. and the possibility of 2 years of oil, even with the fields that they know are there, they cant be for certain the viability of them as reliable sources.

    And yes, i feel guaranteed finds in recent years trumps a theoretical 66-115billion. Even best case scenario lets say your right...115 billion barrels, at our currrent consumption levels we would be done with it in less than 15 years. Ill be alive longer than that to. So unless your planning on handing the problem over to your children, and grand children this needs to be dealt with now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post

    Thats because most comapnies can't pass the 100% increase in oil to the customer. So what happens then...they don't make as much.
    Your right, 40billion dollars isnt that much.




    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    6 months later you actually think the price isn't reflective of supply/demand?

    I didnt say 6 months later, i specifically said the gas that was in my tank right now.




    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    They are hedged with past futures prices or locked in prices that usually spand about 6 months. And last time I checked, Mcdonalds did raise prices, just in China.
    True thats why southwest has stayed the only profitable airlines during this whole debacle.

    And i dont live in china. I can only reference things in my market.


    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    If you are going to actually research an area in which I trade, please go a bit further than MSNBC and the small amounts of already leased land available. But then again what do you expect from MSNBC....
    First, slight clarification, its a AP article merely being presented by MSNBC, it's not like some company writer is doing it. The information contained in the article is free market, quoting chevrons own researchers. It not a scientific study, its actual research and developement by a major oil company.

    How about a cornell university geologist who says at most 60 billion barrels, which is still only 7-8 years, at best.

    http://www.scienceblog.com/community.../20031974.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    You do understand it takes oil and energy to drill right?

    you do understand these oil companies arent charging themselves $4 a gallon right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    DO you think Opec raising production and saying its speculators causing the problem is because they want the price to go up?
    They realize that they found our breaking point, people are starting to drive less, now they'll back the prices down to something thats still high, but we'll think its a deal after all these high prices. Its a conditioning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    Why don't you ask why Exxon is getting out of the retail gasoline business

    make the most when the price of crude is $60-80 a barrel.
    becasuse the retail isnt profitable anymore, those gas stations will still be around, they just arent goin to be company owned anymore. Big difference, their not leaving the retail biz all together, they're just selling the store fronts, they'll still be selling them oil though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    you think they make more money?

    Once again, yes its a fact, they are making more money now that ever in their history. I dont care what department their making it from, their still making it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Soup Nazi View Post
    There are your 3 big Western Oil Companies. What direction is their stock price going form 2004?
    Not really concerned about stock price, another number based on speculation, and investors who own e-trade accounts and think watching jim cramer makes them warren buffet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    Offshore drilling is a waste of time, money and the environment. There's at best 2 yrs worth of oil in the gulf. and its not like the oil companys will flood the market with cheap gas, prices will stay the same, it will just delay the enevitable. When we must run our cars without petroleum
    What the hell??

    Did you see the size of the Jack field Chevron found last year?

    Helluva lot more than 2 years worth of crude.

    Jesus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by futurepilot View Post
    you do understand these oil companies arent charging themselves $4 a gallon right?
    First line - go read up on incremental economics. Then you'll understand. Otherwise - don't make statements about what gas is valued at in a refinery.
    (Hence - it's the last increment, or $4/gallon.)

    Your assumptions need the proper distinctions.
  

  
 

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