constitution violating itself?

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    constitution violating itself?


    A person must run for senate in the state they hold residence. George Bush couldnt run for senate in Alaska. Why? This prevents senators from passing bills that dont affect them. He could pass laws that increase that income tax in Alaska and never have to pay them. The important part here is, a senator can not pass a law on other adults that they do not have to live under as well.

    "According to Article I, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution, a senator must be 30 years of age, a citizen of the United States for 9 years, and must reside in the state he or she represents at the time of election."

    Therefor, why can a 35 year old senator set the drinking age to 21?

    I dont believe it to be a violation of the constitution when the smoking age is set at 18, as those under 18 are not adults. However, if i rob a bank I will go to an adult prison, and if there is a draft I am elligable. 18 year old's are adults.

    However, a 35 year old man passing laws banning an 18 year old man from a substance that the 35 year old man can attain is like a Texas man telling Alaskan's that they must pay more income tax that the Texas man doesnt have to pay.


    ... or like the British driving up taxes on tea...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    under 18 are not adults.

    18 year old's are adults.

    an 18 year old man
    I can't make any sense of your logic in this matter that you posted but don't you at least see the irony of an eight-teen year old being considered and adult. Eighteen year olds are still teen-agers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    A person must run for senate in the state they hold residence. George Bush couldnt run for senate in Alaska. Why? This prevents senators from passing bills that dont affect them. He could pass laws that increase that income tax in Alaska and never have to pay them. The important part here is, a senator can not pass a law on other adults that they do not have to live under as well.

    "According to Article I, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution, a senator must be 30 years of age, a citizen of the United States for 9 years, and must reside in the state he or she represents at the time of election."

    Therefor, why can a 35 year old senator set the drinking age to 21?
    Laws are not designed to be fair. There are designed to serve a practical purpose, usually to control the population and to keep people from being a hazard to themselves and other citizens.

    Now, I have a theory...an 18 yearold is basically half the age of the 35 year old senator. The senator remembers back when he was 18 and thinks "...wow, dude I was like totally clueless"

    Kind of like comparing your thought patterns at 9 years old to the way you think at 18...Oh and they have make some kind of advantage to getting older!!!(haha)
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    I never understood 21 either but there not going to change it. Most countries are 18 or the age requirement is non existent. Not fair right? Well keep in mind how many 18 year olds drive here as compared to those countries. Its not fair but what really is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I can't make any sense of your logic in this matter that you posted but don't you at least see the irony of an eight-teen year old being considered and adult. Eighteen year olds are still teen-agers.
    If i'm still a "teenager" then I shouldnt be elligable for the draft, nor should I go to an adult prison. Dont make me have the burdens of an adult with out the rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicrhino View Post
    Laws are not designed to be fair.
    The constitution is designed to be fair. Its sad that with their signature, senators and the likes can change a document that hundreds of thousands of men have fought to protect since 1776.
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    If enough 18-20 were politically motivated on this topic then there could be some more interesting discussion about the legalities and properness of it since the individuals who fall into the category are adults(via voting rights and military etc). However, people of this age tend not to use their votes or capabilities to the fullest often due to immaturity and short-sightedness.
    Last edited by size; 02-06-2007 at 02:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by size View Post
    If enough 18-20 were politically motivated on this topic then there could be some more interesting discussion about the legalities and properness of it since the individuals who fall into the category are adults(via voting rights and militray etc). However, people of this age tend not to use their votes or capabilities to the fullest often due to immaturity and short-sightedness.

    Exactly. I dont get why anyone for any reason wouldn't vote.
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    The constitution is designed to be fair. Its sad that with their signature, senators and the likes can change a document that hundreds of thousands of men have fought to protect since 1776.
    You can't lock yourself into a document based on 18th century moral and principles. You have to amend it as societies values and sense of fairness change. If we didn't, slaves would be legal.

    The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were certainly NOT fair to today's' standards.

    So you either have one man do it, or a governing body. I choose the governing body.


    And its 1787
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminis View Post
    I never understood 21 either but there not going to change it. Most countries are 18 or the age requirement is non existent. Not fair right? Well keep in mind how many 18 year olds drive here as compared to those countries. Its not fair but what really is.
    The drinking age was not always 21.
    Just like many reccreational drugs were not always illegal.

    I beleive that the drinking age is established by each individual state... BUT:
    The Federal govt. offered t opay transportation costs and maintenence for the roads (innerstates I beleive) but only if that state agreed t osetting the age restriction to 21.
    Since NOT having an innerstate back then REALLY hurt the States export/import and tourissm, and the fact that now Railroads were no longer monoplolizing that aspect of the industry most states signed up for it right away.
    The few that didn't obviously did.
    Now, wether or not this is STILL why the drinking age is 21, I do not know, but after every state signs up for that, why not make it a federal thing ya know :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy View Post
    The drinking age was not always 21.
    Its not about the drinking age. Its those who are 18-21 having the full burdens of adults w/o the full rights of adults.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    Its not about the drinking age. Its those who are 18-21 having the full burdens of adults w/o the full rights of adults.
    Once you get drafted you can drink at the px
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    Its not about the drinking age. Its those who are 18-21 having the full burdens of adults w/o the full rights of adults.
    I'll trade you my "full burdens" for your "deprivation of rights" and lets see who fairs better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I'll trade you my "full burdens" for your "deprivation of rights" and lets see who fairs better.
    Whats one legal burden that you have that we dont?
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    I was not referring to legal burdens. When you are forty something raising a family, with job (in)security, medical insurance premiums, mortgage payments, braces payments, college tuition payments, day care payments, auto insurance payments, property tax payments, etc., the difference between the rights you have at 18 and 21 will be pretty insignificant to you.

    I get your point. I would prefer that we not draft our 18 yo children to fight a political agenda around the world. I would also prefer that our children not drink at 18. An 18 yo that commits a crime can go to whatever correctional facility he wants as long as when he is convicted he suffers the hardship consequences commensurate his actions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I was not referring to legal burdens. When you are forty something raising a family, with job (in)security, medical insurance premiums, mortgage payments, braces payments, college tuition payments, day care payments, auto insurance payments, property tax payments, etc., the difference between the rights you have at 18 and 21 will be pretty insignificant to you.

    I get your point. I would prefer that we not draft our 18 yo children to fight a political agenda around the world. I would also prefer that our children not drink at 18. An 18 yo that commits a crime can go to whatever correctional facility he wants as long as when he is convicted he suffers the hardship consequences commensurate his actions.

    Like every other adult I talk to this about, your missing my point.

    Its not about my right to drink, nor is it about how much harder it is to be an adult than it is to be 18. Nor is it about a draft. Nor is it about drunk driving fatalites. Its about straight up violation of rights.

    The point is, senators pass laws that in no way can ever effect them. It would be the same if no one with brown eyes could run for senate, and a green/blue eyed senate passed a bill to make brown eyed people pay double the taxes that green/blue people have to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    Its not about the drinking age. Its those who are 18-21 having the full burdens of adults w/o the full rights of adults.

    In a few years you'll grow up and be able to "enjoy" your full rights. So get over yourself...
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    The point is, senators pass laws that in no way can ever effect them. It would be the same if no one with brown eyes could run for senate, and a green/blue eyed senate passed a bill to make brown eyed people pay double the taxes that green/blue people have to.
    Then take it up with your local representatives. Other adults 18 and older put him in office to represent them. You can use your right to vote for who you want to represent you. Use your right to effect the change you want. Rally the youth of your age who have rights (voting for their representatives) to use them instead of spending their time doing bongs, blogging on myspace, playing PS2 and living off their mommy and daddy because they don't really want to be adults with responsibilities. That is until someone says they cant do something and then all of a sudden they want their rights. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to be adults you have to act like one too.

    BTW...it IS a conspiracy to make your life miserable just because you are 18 .
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmitryWI View Post
    In a few years you'll grow up and be able to "enjoy" your full rights. So get over yourself...
    No need to get offensive. Its a simple debate.


    If I was a di-ck, I would say in a few years you will be able to enjoy retierment, but I'm not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    The point is, senators pass laws that in no way can ever effect them. It would be the same if no one with brown eyes could run for senate, and a green/blue eyed senate passed a bill to make brown eyed people pay double the taxes that green/blue people have to.
    You can complain about it all you want here, it's not gonna change. I don't like a lot of things too, but I put my energy into something where I can make some kind of difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Then take it up with your local representatives. Other adults 18 and older put him in office to represent them. You can use your right to vote for who you want to represent you. Use your right to effect the change you want.

    BTW...it IS a conspiracy to make your life miserable just because you are 18 .
    Changes like this take years, in which case I will be 21.

    I get booze no problem. Its the kids that are dumb enough to get caught that I worry about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmitryWI View Post
    You can complain about it all you want here, it's not gonna change. I don't like a lot of things too, but I put my energy into something where I can make some kind of difference.

    It take a very small amount of energy to type on this forum.

    This law wont effect me much longer anyway, so not really worth the bother. Read above post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    No need to get offensive. Its a simple debate.


    If I was a di-ck, I would say in a few years you will be able to enjoy retierment, but I'm not.
    LOL I wish you would say that, oh, and make it true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    It take a very small amount of energy to type on this forum.

    This law wont effect me much longer anyway, so not really worth the bother. Read above post.
    I'm kind of one step behind. LOL I type something as you post, then I read it and my posts become useless and I feel like a dumbass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmitryWI View Post
    LOL I wish you would say that, oh, and make it true.
    I hope I am physically able to work my whole life, as that is my plan. Retiernment seems really boring to me.

    And I do work to change the drinking age, indirectly, by putting up signs and otherwise promoting this man in my community...

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    So lets summarize:
    Quote Originally Posted by size View Post
    However, people of this age tend not to use their votes or capabilities to the fullest often due to immaturity and short-sightedness.
    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    Changes like this take years, in which case I will be 21.
    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    This law wont effect me much longer anyway, so not really worth the bother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    So lets summarize:
    I realize that it would be utterly imposible for a bill to pass changing the drinking age in the next 2 years or so.

    If the drinking age was 30 or so, it would be a different story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    Like every other adult I talk to this about, your missing my point.

    Its not about my right to drink, nor is it about how much harder it is to be an adult than it is to be 18. Nor is it about a draft. Nor is it about drunk driving fatalites. Its about straight up violation of rights.

    The point is, senators pass laws that in no way can ever effect them. It would be the same if no one with brown eyes could run for senate, and a green/blue eyed senate passed a bill to make brown eyed people pay double the taxes that green/blue people have to.
    So,... you'd feel better electing your best friend, or yourself perhaps to legislate on/for the laws and regulation that effect you.
    THAT is your point.
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    I think you are doing quite well at proving my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtraflossy View Post
    So,... you'd feel better electing your best friend, or yourself perhaps to legislate on/for the laws and regulation that effect you.
    THAT is your point.
    my point is that senators pass laws that they are IMMUNE to. Would you be immature and short sighted if senators had to be 60 years old and they banned all those under 60 from drinking and you didnt like it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by spatch View Post
    my point is that senators pass laws that they are IMMUNE to. Would you be immature and short sighted if senators had to be 60 years old and they banned all those under 60 from drinking and you didnt like it?
    So, the senators are neglecting the 18-21year old drinkers who vote?, This is such a small pecentage of the constiuency, that it would make no political sense to urge legislation to change the the drinking age, when that very act would upset the over 21year old voters, who are concerned about the health and behavior of the under 21 crowd. That would be political suicide, specifically because that same 18-21 demographic would not exist in 3 years. So, we are left with a law that may be unfair,to 18-21 year old drinking voters,( life is not fair), but is logical based upon risk and reward to the majority of the voting population. Sorry 18-21 voting drinkers but, you lose!...
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicrhino View Post
    So, the senators are neglecting the 18-21year old drinkers who vote?, This is such a small pecentage of the constiuency, that it would make no political sense to urge legislation to change the the drinking age, when that very act would upset the over 21year old voters, who are concerned about the health and behavior of the under 21 crowd. That would be political suicide, specifically because that same 18-21 demographic would not exist in 3 years. So, we are left with a law that may be unfair,to 18-21 year old drinking voters,( life is not fair), but is logical based upon risk and reward to the majority of the voting population. Sorry 18-21 voting drinkers but, you lose!...

    Yes I know this is a loosing battle, thats why I dont "do anything about it except support senators/presidential nominees with my viewpoints (even though they have no chance at winning).


    I'm going to take this time again to remind you folks to vote for a true american...

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    Quote Originally Posted by size View Post
    I think you are doing quite well at proving my point.
    It's what it looks like to me too.
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    spatch i completely understand what you are saying and at the same time i understand how many people are clinging onto your "drinking age" statement. people tend to see something and cling to only that idea.... NOT saying that thats what the majority of the posts were like but some....

    its completely ignorant to take 100% sides on this sort of topic. I dont think its fair that 18 year olds can fight and die in politics and not have a beer....I also understand that sometimes, sad to say, most people arent smart enough to look after themselves and need an extra push/barrier/boundary to help them.... you cant tell me that the majority of society, teenagers, 30 year olds, 40 year olds, 80 year olds DONT need alittle help when it comes to decision making.

    life's not fair though.... you are not 21 then you can't drink.... thats just sucky... if some old geezer recklessly lived life and now depends on social security....its sucks that i have to pay for his butt. all in the name of taking care of society....
  

  
 

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