Not really politics, but Evolution... (cont. a thread)

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    That is quite right, but until someone publishes a handbook on how to become a diety again, those are just words.

    About the erasing part: destroying the lower, stupid, ugly self is erasing all it is made of, isn't it?
    Hey guys I seemed to have misplaced my ego. Did anybody see it. I think I left it here or maybe it's in the "sports" section.

    I used to experiment alot with egoless existentialism. There were some moment(s) of real clarity, that I still value to this day. However the more I explored the universal consciencesness, the more I rejected the day to day ego based reality that most working class people must endure. This proved to be disasterous for me, as I lost my will to compete with the other males of the species. I thought this was a good thing, until I realized that the other less enlightened males were still trying to compete with me. I took quite a few ass kickings ( physically, mentally, financially) and women were universally not interested in my wimpy enlightened ass. So, I fought my way back to the ego world. It is somewhat like the Matrix, where there are two co-existing realities. One ethereal and the other corporeal. I need both to survive. I just wanted to caution anyone who is experimenting with ego loss. It can be dangerous..just like anything else that is worth your time!( and or place )


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey Steve
    You all got a little hostile towards each other and I am unsure why. Please show respect to each other. This is a extremely fun thread. Lets not kill it.
    Did we? Well if I seemed hostile, please forgive me. I had no intention of doing so, but rather to point out major, if subtle differences in approaches.

    Egolessness is not the goal either, as anabolicrhino points out, the ego is the part of man that is grounded in matter. Make it will-less and yes that's a perfect recipe for disaster.

    The destruction of the lower self means that the ego stop thinking it is man's intelligence but rather starts relying on an intelligence that is much greater than his little intellect and also goes through the ego rather than being something he can hold on to, psychologically, for insecurity reasons.

    The ego is will, and should know its place as the center of willpower. It should know that Intelligence does not come from it, and that the puny intellect it calls intelligence is fake, because it relies on illusory values to compute whatever it tries to accomplish. As such, pride has to be utterly destroyed because it is this "pride" which tends to give the ego the mental, psychological and physical behavior of being IMPORTANT.

    When the ego learns that it is only ONE aspect of what a human being actually is, then the ensuing humbleness, and this is not by any means a submissiveness, lets enough room in the psyche for actual, superior Intelligence to express itself.

    Actual humility isn't submissiveness, which is what mankind calls humility, but rather a tininess of mental focus, quite reminiscent of my previous post on the manner of access to other dimensions. As such, the psychological focus of the ego becomes rather like a simple dot, and then the higher faculties of man can be expressed in ways that have just about never been seen... yet. Times are coming when people are willfully undergoing this transformation.
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  3. Carry what? What are you guys talking about? Holosync? Kelly Hutchinson? Someone who made movies? Are you guys on drugs?

    Well that's it for me for tonight anyways.
    https://www.centerpointe.com/product...holosync_index

    The Holosync, or similar programs like BrainWave Generator:
    http://www.bwgen.com/

    are supposed to 'tune' your brainwaves to the frequencies of various meditative states. Some people swear by them. Ive used them before to experiment and honestly, a good progressive/goa trance track works much better. Never spent too much time with it, however.

    So, I fought my way back to the ego world. It is somewhat like the Matrix, where there are two co-existing realities. One ephemeral and the other corporeal. I need both to survive. I just wanted to caution anyone who is experimenting with ego loss. It can be dangerous..just like anything else that is worth your time!( and or place
    Anabolicrhino, those are wise words. As a human, you are bound to this reality and must exist within in it. I suppose some can give it all up and go to live like a hermit in the middle of nowhere, but I really like living, and experiencing all the wonderful things life has to offer. There's even something to be learned from extreme sadness or pain, I wonder if the experiences of this life somehow modify or enhance whatever energy is the driving force behind our life, and what we do in this lifetime really does effect what we become or transition into once we trancend this 3-dimensional world.

    Kind of plays into what most religions talk about regarding the afterlife, etc.

    Then again, perhaps all this discussion about the meaning of it all is truly meaningless, and when it's lights out for us its really over. Maybe were just biological machines, and sentience is just a result of some really slick programming on evolution's part. One of the gifts of being human is a vast imagination, and maybe our belief in an everlasting continuance of a lifeforce is just our minds not wanting to cope with the inevitable.

    BV

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey Steve
    sounds very interesting.


    and EEMain and Grunt...
    i think in posts 304 and 305 you are both right.
    The only things that would not work for you would be things that are not in congruence with reality.



    You all got a little hostile towards each other and I am unsure why. Please show respect to each other. This is a extremely fun thread. Lets not kill it.
    Not being hostile Just having fun

  5. So Grunt enlighten us to this infection then. Where I come from it is called avijja(ignorance). It is by removing the defilements of the mind that avijja is replaced by panna*(discernment).

    And it is not about ego deflation. Rather learning to respond instead of react. You live in this world guided by something more than greed, hatred and desire.

    The ancient scriptures have much to teach us. Man for all his toys has not advanced as far as he thinks.

    "The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." Albert Einstein

    *pronounced "pun YA"
    Last edited by EEmain; 02-21-2006 at 05:47 PM.
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  6. The original sin, never identified by any religion and yet oft-mentioned indirectly by ancient civilizations through their own recalling of Paradise lost, is a very real thing.

    It is the presence of concept in man's mind.

    This might seem absolutely impossible as, most will say, mind *IS* concept. It is not. Concepts are a travesty of reality. They are a simple symbolic representation thereof, but not absolutely equivalent to reality. Only reality itself is equivalent to reality. What the current, false evolution of man's mind is trying to accomplish is the representation of the whole of reality through use of symbols that have non-absolute meaning. This creates a situation where the complexity of the task is orders of magnitude greater than infinity. It is not doable. Thus is man's mind's so-called evolution doomed to fail.

    Mind can connect with actual, objective, Absolute reality just fine. Concepts were first presented to man as a shortcut to his mental evolution. It was seen that concepts, because they can so easily be created and destroyed, could be used to this end, and that later on, man could simply "de-invert" his mind, sort of "turning around" his mind's eye from concepts to Reality. It wasn't obvious at first that concepts would create a huge chain reaction of memory loading, and quickly fog up man's mind enough that the extremely simple "de-invertion" would become impossible to understand for someone hypnotized into concepts and beliefs. Such is the case today. Mind de-invertion is not easy for anyone.

    Interestingly, the realization of this inevitable, total failure of the human mind's inverted evolutive progress is key to the realization that the increasingly complex thoughts of the modern intellect can eventually become the limiting factor in the very process of said false evolution, which I will further refer to as "involution". This means that as man's intellect grows better, stronger, more complex and subtle at the same time, this realization eventually dawns in him. So the very process of this false evolution is a negative paradox, one that destroys itself... in some cases. In many cases, the power of concepts over the mind is too strong for an awakening to the absurdity of this paradox to happen.

    This means that some people will get this and others, not. Sadly, it isn't a question of quality of person, but more of psychological structure. Concepts are symbols that represent reality but aren't reality. Their value is derived from subjective observation and is truncated where the observer's mind's eye does not see. As man only sees the part of any object facing him, so it is with every situation he ever meets. His observation is thus incomplete and the memory he keeps of it, useless.

    That is why no matter how much "thinking" about situations is done, things happen differently. 99.99% of the time. Because there are too many factors involved. Representing each of these factors with concepts is not doable because they would need to be observed in the first place. For such observations to happen in a thorough manner, personal experience would need to be infinite. It cannot be.

    In essence, the "defilements" are concepts. Discernment is a true mind ability, one that is born when the link between man's mind and objective reality is strong enough. For that to happen, the concepts must first be destroyed. In essence, I agree with the ancient texts but one could never have gotten to the conclusion that concepts are the defilements without first having some discernment. That's why it takes so long for man to grow beyond his simple animalistic psychology.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    In essence, I agree with the ancient texts but one could never have gotten to the conclusion that concepts are the defilements without first having some discernment. .
    What ancient texts?
    (im not saying "prove it".....i just want to check them out because im a weird ass and reading religious/historcal books is fun to me)

  8. EEmain should reply to that, I do not know the names of these texts... Well I believe there is some reference to that in "The Bible" but I am certain that other texts do confirm this. The Baghavad Gita perhaps?
    Last edited by Grunt76; 02-21-2006 at 05:12 PM.

  9. Summa Theologica( St. Thomas Aquinas) deals with the concept of Original Sin as infection and how it is transmitted. Don`t remember if Augustine presented this first or it is Aquinas`s idea.
    http://www.ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FS/FS081.html

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey Steve
    What ancient texts?
    (im not saying "prove it".....i just want to check them out because im a weird ass and reading religious/historcal books is fun to me)
    That would depend on how you see the baptism of Jesus. And then the 40 days in the desert.

    Or to go OT... Did Moses go to the mountain top in person or is he like MLK talking a different language of symbolism.

    Scripture is not always saying what it says. Or is saying many things on different levels.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by EEmain
    That would depend on how you see the baptism of Jesus. And then the 40 days in the desert.

    Or to go OT... Did Moses go to the mountain top in person or is he like MLK talking a different language of symbolism.

    Scripture is not always saying what it says. Or is saying many things on different levels.
    Love the avatar. Last time I saw something like that I was tripping and drinking a chocolate milk shake.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    Love the avatar. Last time I saw something like that I was tripping and drinking a chocolate milk shake.

  13. Love the avatar. Last time I saw something like that I was tripping and drinking a chocolate milk shake.

  14. LOL @ CDB

    Exactly, EEmain, there are many references to this epidemic of "evil" and yet the nature of this evil has not been exactly identified. That it constitutes the very structure of modern man's psyche is too much for many people to accept.

    BTW: I'm sure some readers find that my post #324 above is somewhat difficult to read and understand. Questions on what I mean to convey are welcomed.

  15. "the natural man is an enemy to God"

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey Steve
    "the natural man is an enemy to God"
    ?

  17. just a quote i heard somewhere,,,,
    thought it might apply to what we're talking about

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey Steve
    just a quote i heard somewhere,,,,
    thought it might apply to what we're talking about

    "Unless you are as little children"

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76

    Exactly, EEmain, there are many references to this epidemic of "evil" and yet the nature of this evil has not been exactly identified. That it constitutes the very structure of modern man's psyche is too much for many people to accept.
    "In the same way I saw an ancient path, an ancient road, traveled by the Rightly Self-awakened Ones of former times. And what is that ancient path, that ancient road, traveled by the Rightly Self-awakened Ones of former times? Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right aspiration, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. That is the ancient path, the ancient road, traveled by the Rightly Self-awakened Ones of former times. I followed that path. Following it, I came to direct knowledge of aging & death, direct knowledge of the origination of aging & death, direct knowledge of the cessation of aging & death, direct knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of aging & death. I followed that path. Following it, I came to direct knowledge of birth... becoming... clinging... craving... feeling... contact... the six sense media... name-&-form... consciousness, direct knowledge of the origination of consciousness, direct knowledge of the cessation of consciousness, direct knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of consciousness. I followed that path."

    "Following it, I came to direct knowledge of fabrications, direct knowledge of the origination of fabrications, direct knowledge of the cessation of fabrications, direct knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of fabrications. Knowing that directly, I have revealed it to monks, nuns, male lay followers & female lay followers, so that this holy life has become powerful, rich, detailed, well-populated, wide-spread, proclaimed among celestial & human beings."

    Samyutta Nikaya XII.65

  20. Whoa, that is EXACTLY what I mean.

    What's it from, EEmain? The Vedas? The Thoth thing?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76
    Whoa, that is EXACTLY what I mean.

    What's it from, EEmain? The Vedas? The Thoth thing?
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon.../sn12-065.html

  22. You see: these people have it explained. Except what does "right" mean in the text? That's where one's interpretation, no matter how much clarification is given, will be subjective and thus tainted by one's personal view of things. THAT is how concepts are in themselves the taint that deviate one from "right" which I declare to be "absolutely objective". Who is absolutely objective? Only he who is, knows to be. And that pretty much sums up the impossible task for a master to explain to disciples how to attain masterhood.

  23. Samma(Pali) or Samyak(Sanskrit) translates as "right" (as in proper)

  24. Evolution = a process of change in a certain direction

    Genesis (through the creation of earth/man by god) = the creation of life


    Take a look at the following...


    L


    Is that a letter? yes. Is it black? yes. It can be both a letter while being black. The theories of evolution, such as natural selection and survival of the fittest, can co-exist with religious beliefs about the creation of the world.

  25. Or... You can attend my seminar.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Nullifidian
    Well it can be proven that not all beings that exist today existed as they were many years ago. Australia is the perfect example of this.

    All species of mammals living on the continent of Australia, excluding migratory birds, at the time the very first European settlers arrived there are exclusive to Australia. No animals outside of Australia (excluding marine wildlife and migratory birds), are found in Australia.

    If you try to use the flood as an excuse for the fossil record, then it is quite odd indeed that the ONLY fossils of creatures found in Australia are also only found in Australia.

    In order for the flood story to be true, all of the creatures from Australia would have had to swim across the ocean to Turkey, so they could be loaded onto Noah's Ark. Then after the flood was over and Noah landed (once again, somewhere in Turkey), those same creatures went and swam all the way back to Australia. That scenario is in fact impossible. But of course, I'm sure ID people will just say "God did it". This is precisely the same as saying "it's magic" and one would hope that kind of primitive thinking left the civilized world at the very least in this past century if not hundreds of years ago.


    In any case, the aforementioned scenario PROVES that whatever flood MAY have occurred, it could not have engulfed the entire planet. This means that the flood cannot explain fossil records. Since the flood was the manner in which ID explains fossil records, this disproves ID.
    Read First Chronicles 1:1-19
    Peleg was born waaaaay after Noahs time.
    And his name is Peleg "because in his days the earth was divided."

    Sorry to bring this back up but I saw this in my daily reading and remembered your post.

  27. Since this was bumped, and I read nullifidians post, I wanted to make sure he knew that IMHO, Intelligent Design (ID) extends far beyond the believers in this worlds major religions. E.G. You can believe in a prime mover, so to speak, that set the universe into motion, but doesn't fall in line with the God everyone seems to know.

    I have no problem believing in some sort of a prime mover who developed the universe to exist as it does.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by spatch
    Take a look at the following...


    L


    Is that a letter? yes. Is it black? yes. It can be both a letter while being black. The theories of evolution, such as natural selection and survival of the fittest, can co-exist with religious beliefs about the creation of the world.
    Well yeah, that's a black letter by any definition. Unless you say Let red=black and black=blue, and then ask the same question.

    The argument between strict biblical creationism and evolution (as we know it) is totally different.

    BUT, I do believe you can believe in some sort of God and an evolution...but, I don't think God plays any direct role in our lives or in our development...
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