Political Issues around the world

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    No, I honestly dont. Its not hard to post videos anonymously without being intercepted first. What you are implying literally makes no sense.
    OK so the video is irrelevant to you, that is OK.

    I'm just going to say what happend, the FBI lied saying they committed mass suicide even thought they actually killed them. So there was no mass suicide, the FBI just killed them, there were children that were killed there by the FBI too. Now this is relevant due to the fact that it's is somewhat the same scenario, FBI blames shooter for most killings while they actually killed them. Judge Napolitao said no one was dead till 515 which falls in line with when it was raided.

    You can claim this couldn't happen do to doubt, but then you're willfully denying any evidence going against your way of thinking. That's fine by me but then there is no discussion just two guys going back and forth.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    OK so the video is irrelevant to you, that is OK.

    I'm just going to say what happend, the FBI lied saying they committed mass suicide even thought they actually killed them. So there was no mass suicide, the FBI just killed them, there were children that were killed there by the FBI too. Now this is relevant due to the fact that it's is somewhat the same scenario, FBI blames shooter for most killings while they actually killed them. Judge Napolitao said no one was dead till 515 which falls in line with when it was raided.

    You can claim this couldn't happen do to doubt, but then you're willfully denying any evidence going against your way of thinking. That's fine by me but then there is no discussion just two guys going back and forth.
    What evidence have you presented to compliment your argument? A judge saying something and a video that shows nothing? Cmon man.

    Now you're saying 200+ people are being kept quiet while 1 man is able to talk.. where is the logic?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    OK so the video is irrelevant to you, that is OK.

    I'm just going to say what happend, the FBI lied saying they committed mass suicide even thought they actually killed them. So there was no mass suicide, the FBI just killed them, there were children that were killed there by the FBI too. Now this is relevant due to the fact that it's is somewhat the same scenario, FBI blames shooter for most killings while they actually killed them. Judge Napolitao said no one was dead till 515 which falls in line with when it was raided.

    You can claim this couldn't happen do to doubt, but then you're willfully denying any evidence going against your way of thinking. That's fine by me but then there is no discussion just two guys going back and forth.
    At the end of the day, you are entitled to believe whatever it is that you like.
    But I hope you never require the FBI or HRT to save you from an active shooter/ hostage situation or the 'yes men' cops to protect you when someone is threatening to take your life. I mean afterall, theyre just murderers and have no conscious, right? Maybe you should walk a mile in their shoes before you think you know it all about their behaviour
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  4. Political Issues around the world


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  5. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    What evidence have you presented to compliment your argument? A judge saying something and a video that shows nothing? Cmon man.

    Now you're saying 200+ people are being kept quiet while 1 man is able to talk.. where is the logic?
    You mentioned before about the people's memory being bad, I agree with you, most of them may have distorted memories. No one would take them seriously due to the possibility that their memory could have been distorted therefore there is no need to silence all of them. Let's bookmark this statement so I don't say it a 6th time lol.

    Also you claim the evidence at hand is irrelevant but it isnt, it may be little but not irrelevant. It goes against the main story, therefore there is obviously more to it. I am not claiming one story is fact over another, I don't believe one person true over another. All I know is there is more to the story and no mainstream true can be believed.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    At the end of the day, you are entitled to believe whatever it is that you like.
    But I hope you never require the FBI or HRT to save you from an active shooter/ hostage situation or the 'yes men' cops to protect you when someone is threatening to take your life. I mean afterall, theyre just murderers and have no conscious, right? Maybe you should walk a mile in their shoes before you think you know it all about their behaviour
    You obviously took offense to this discussion, I specifically ask for people not to be easily offended but I won't drag this along.

  7. But ANNNNYWAYSS who is excited for our new president lol? https://youtu.be/Jm62T3x1iKE

  8. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    You mentioned before about the people's memory being bad, I agree with you, most of them may have distorted memories. No one would take them seriously due to the possibility that their memory could have been distorted therefore there is no need to silence all of them. Let's bookmark this statement so I don't say it a 6th time lol.

    Also you claim the evidence at hand is irrelevant but it isnt, it may be little but not irrelevant. It goes against the main story, therefore there is obviously more to it. I am not claiming one story is fact over another, I don't believe one person true over another. All I know is there is more to the story and no mainstream true can be believed.
    We are talking 200+ people man. A handful won't be able to recall facts, not all 200+.

    Is it evidence, or just a judges statement?
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  9. I'm actually curious if you read the transcript yourself - where in it does it say people only died at 5.13am? More-over, it doesn't detail that ANYBODY was down except the shooter, so maybe I am to believe noone actually died, and Pulse doesn't actually exist at all? #pulsepiracy

    So the transcript doesn't even have a 5.13am time-stamp, and yet this judge somehow pulls that out of thin air? In fact, an early responding cop inside Pulse says that all he could hear was shots being continually fired and people screaming, even while he was inside. They then cornered the shooter in the bathroom but had to hold position as regular cops are not trained in hostage rescue, and may end up causing more harm than good. Was that the case here? Perhaps not, but we know that only now after it has all happened. During these situations where there are potential hostages, you need people trained to deal with that situation.

    The active shooter likely had 10 minutes+ to do that much damage. That is a lot of time when you have 300+ people to shoot at. Even with them in the club, it took them "several" minutes to locate the shooter. The lights were still down, likely because people were more concerned about getting out than turning on the lights. The police actually note that there were bodies everywhere while they were keeping the shooting holed up. So, if they entered the club at 2.08am. and claim that bodies were everywhere, we can safely assume a few of them were dead at that point. But of course we will trust a judge who wasn't there, over the 'yes-man' cops who were.

    So, now I ask, why believe a judge who's making up time-stamps on a transcript that does not say anything like what he is claiming it does? Perhaps he wants fame? Seems likely. Why are you not questioning his motive? Why are you believing his version of a transcript that does not exist?

    Do you know why they might be keeping the 911 calls mostly hidden, because inquiry. While investigations are conducted, it is standard practice to keep things like this out of the public domain until the investigators can piece together what happened (same reason why you don't discuss trials outside of the courtroom).

    Another important fact is that Omar had been engaged BEFORE heading into the club, but the uniformed cop had to call for back up before heading in after him. Remember that the cop wouldn't know beforehand that he would become an active shooter, but also couldnt risk storming in after Omar for the safety of those in the club, had it been a hostage situation. So Omar didn't sneak his weapons in, he was engaged outside and just walked in.

    But you know all this right?

    And further, the Orlando Police Chief even states that some victims may have been from fire from SWAT team members, but it would be hard to say at this point. Omar had taken hostages in the bathroom, and SWATs directive was to ensure there safety. It took 3+ hours for them to decide how to try extract them as safely as possible and they had to be cautious as Omar claimed they had explosive vests on. The time taken was also used to extract as many people out of the club who were still in there, and they needed that time to ensure a bomb did not go off and hurt those they were capable of saving. If there were still 50+ people in the club, down, but able to be moved while things were calm, why push your luck and trigger a bomb that could cause more lives to be lost?

    When they breached, 8 or 9 officers engaged as the shooter emerged from the hole. 8 or 9. They shoot 5-10 shots each and you easily have 100 rounds fired in <10 seconds.

    But hey, let's trust a judge who makes things up from a transcript that does not echo his sentiments.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    You obviously took offense to this discussion, I specifically ask for people not to be easily offended but I won't drag this along.
    This is akin to saying, "hey man no offense but you're fat and ugly". Preceding an offense statement with "no offense" does not give you free reign to make an offensive statement. You would rather trust a judge who lies about what a transcript says over the cops who just stormed in trying to protect those who were being shot at.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    We are talking 200+ people man. A handful won't be able to recall facts, not all 200+.

    Is it evidence, or just a judges statement?
    The judges statement went against the official transcript, that's why I'm saying g it's a cover up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I'm actually curious if you read the transcript yourself - where in it does it say people only died at 5.13am? More-over, it doesn't detail that ANYBODY was down except the shooter, so maybe I am to believe noone actually died, and Pulse doesn't actually exist at all? #pulsepiracy

    So the transcript doesn't even have a 5.13am time-stamp, and yet this judge somehow pulls that out of thin air? In fact, an early responding cop inside Pulse says that all he could hear was shots being continually fired and people screaming, even while he was inside. They then cornered the shooter in the bathroom but had to hold position as regular cops are not trained in hostage rescue, and may end up causing more harm than good. Was that the case here? Perhaps not, but we know that only now after it has all happened. During these situations where there are potential hostages, you need people trained to deal with that situation.

    The active shooter likely had 10 minutes+ to do that much damage. That is a lot of time when you have 300+ people to shoot at. Even with them in the club, it took them "several" minutes to locate the shooter. The lights were still down, likely because people were more concerned about getting out than turning on the lights. The police actually note that there were bodies everywhere while they were keeping the shooting holed up. So, if they entered the club at 2.08am. and claim that bodies were everywhere, we can safely assume a few of them were dead at that point. But of course we will trust a judge who wasn't there, over the 'yes-man' cops who were.

    So, now I ask, why believe a judge who's making up time-stamps on a transcript that does not say anything like what he is claiming it does? Perhaps he wants fame? Seems likely. Why are you not questioning his motive? Why are you believing his version of a transcript that does not exist?

    Do you know why they might be keeping the 911 calls mostly hidden, because inquiry. While investigations are conducted, it is standard practice to keep things like this out of the public domain until the investigators can piece together what happened (same reason why you don't discuss trials outside of the courtroom).

    Another important fact is that Omar had been engaged BEFORE heading into the club, but the uniformed cop had to call for back up before heading in after him. Remember that the cop wouldn't know beforehand that he would become an active shooter, but also couldnt risk storming in after Omar for the safety of those in the club, had it been a hostage situation. So Omar didn't sneak his weapons in, he was engaged outside and just walked in.

    But you know all this right?

    And further, the Orlando Police Chief even states that some victims may have been from fire from SWAT team members, but it would be hard to say at this point. Omar had taken hostages in the bathroom, and SWATs directive was to ensure there safety. It took 3+ hours for them to decide how to try extract them as safely as possible and they had to be cautious as Omar claimed they had explosive vests on. The time taken was also used to extract as many people out of the club who were still in there, and they needed that time to ensure a bomb did not go off and hurt those they were capable of saving. If there were still 50+ people in the club, down, but able to be moved while things were calm, why push your luck and trigger a bomb that could cause more lives to be lost?

    When they breached, 8 or 9 officers engaged as the shooter emerged from the hole. 8 or 9. They shoot 5-10 shots each and you easily have 100 rounds fired in <10 seconds.

    But hey, let's trust a judge who makes things up from a transcript that does not echo his sentiments.
    Can you site your sources?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This is akin to saying, "hey man no offense but you're fat and ugly". Preceding an offense statement with "no offense" does not give you free reign to make an offensive statement. You would rather trust a judge who lies about what a transcript says over the cops who just stormed in trying to protect those who were being shot at.
    Well I never said no offense, whether you're offended or not is on you, it seemed like you were from ypru statements. I hear or read info and go from there, I have no reason to not trust or trust either the cops or him but no one says such a statement on TV. It obviously needs to be looked into more. Plus after the Waco incident it is possible that's it's a cover up, I won't rule out anything because of feelings.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    The judges statement went against the official transcript, that's why I'm saying g it's a cover up.



    Can you site your sources?
    So you trust his opinion, and he has nothing to back it up? Wow.

    FWIW, one Doctor stated that it wasn't actually planes that hit the World Trade Center, it was a large flying potato delivered by the agricultural society in order to protect the financing of meat incentives. Don't ask for proof though, all the evidence was in that same building that was taken down and now all you have is my word.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-t...are-1466988897

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...a3c_story.html

    http://graphics.wsj.com/orlando-shooting/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-helmet.html

    http://freedomoutpost.com/judge-fbi-...-the-building/

    And literally 100 hours
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Well I never said no offense, whether you're offended or not is on you, it seemed like you were from ypru statements. I hear or read info and go from there, I have no reason to not trust or trust either the cops or him but no one says such a statement on TV. It obviously needs to be looked into more. Plus after the Waco incident it is possible that's it's a cover up, I won't rule out anything because of feelings.
    No-one says such a statement for fame? Erm..

    Yeah because no-one lies on TV to get fame....
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    No-one says such a statement for fame? Erm..

    Yeah because no-one lies on TV to get fame....
    And cops don't kill innocent people nor does the FBI do cover ups....

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    So you trust his opinion, and he has nothing to back it up? Wow.

    FWIW, one Doctor stated that it wasn't actually planes that hit the World Trade Center, it was a large flying potato delivered by the agricultural society in order to protect the financing of meat incentives. Don't ask for proof though, all the evidence was in that same building that was taken down and now all you have is my word.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-t...are-1466988897

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...a3c_story.html

    http://graphics.wsj.com/orlando-shooting/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-helmet.html

    http://freedomoutpost.com/judge-fbi-...-the-building/

    And literally 100 hours
    I'll read this on my break.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    And cops don't kill innocent people nor does the FBI do cover ups....
    Except in this case, all you have is one guys word who doesn't give you any evidence other than what he says...
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Except in this case, all you have is one guys word who doesn't give you any evidence other than what he says...
    Plus people who say there were 1 to 10 shooters but then you bring up how they would come out and say it was the FBI while saying their memory is messed up from the stress. So it boils down to the judge vs the FBI, you don't think the FBI would ever do this so you would believe them over the judge. I am vice versa yet I'm open to multiple POVs.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Plus people who say there were 1 to 10 shooters but then you bring up how they would come out and say it was the FBI while saying their memory is messed up from the stress. So it boils down to the judge vs the FBI, you don't think the FBI would ever do this so you would believe them over the judge. I am vice versa yet I'm open to multiple POVs.
    I'm sure it was not only stressed messed up. This was a club early in the morning. Surely there was some intoxicated people in there.

    Regardless, you are basing your entire argument on a guy who wasn't even there who made assumptions on TV.
    “Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God. ... lead them by your own good example.” 1 Peter‬ 5:2-3‬

  20. Quote Originally Posted by RegisterJr View Post
    I'm sure it was not only stressed messed up. This was a club early in the morning. Surely there was some intoxicated people in there.

    Regardless, you are basing your entire argument on a guy who wasn't even there who made assumptions on TV.
    Thats definitely true too and I'm stating it's possible due to the FBI's history, hear say, plus the video of the shots going off in the club. I can't say whether one story is real over the other. I can look at what information pops up on the subject, the likelihood of something like this happening(in this case again if I'm right), and whatever other factors come to play to determine whatever needs to be determined.

    2 cases off the top of my head are the Waco raid and the MLK JR assassination. There are plenty of others obviously.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Thats definitely true too and I'm stating it's possible due to the FBI's history, hear say, plus the video of the shots going off in the club. I can't say whether one story is real over the other. I can look at what information pops up on the subject, the likelihood of something like this happening(in this case again if I'm right), and whatever other factors come to play to determine whatever needs to be determined.

    2 cases off the top of my head are the Waco raid and the MLK JR assassination. There are plenty of others obviously.
    Yeah, Waco was definitely government overreach on many labels.

    But this situation didn't even start with the FBI. It was with local police. The fed government was called in to assist.
    “Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God. ... lead them by your own good example.” 1 Peter‬ 5:2-3‬

  22. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Thats definitely true too and I'm stating it's possible due to the FBI's history, hear say, plus the video of the shots going off in the club. I can't say whether one story is real over the other. I can look at what information pops up on the subject, the likelihood of something like this happening(in this case again if I'm right), and whatever other factors come to play to determine whatever needs to be determined.

    2 cases off the top of my head are the Waco raid and the MLK JR assassination. There are plenty of others obviously.
    The shots align with the reports though, that 8+ officers opened fire on Omar after blasting through the wall.

    The video does not start at 2am when the first shots were fired. But that doesn't mean those shots did not happen, the video simply doesn't record it.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by RegisterJr View Post
    Yeah, Waco was definitely government overreach on many labels.

    But this situation didn't even start with the FBI. It was with local police. The fed government was called in to assist.
    Well with it wouldn't be all different if it was police either imo, orders are orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    The shots align with the reports though, that 8+ officers opened fire on Omar after blasting through the wall.

    The video does not start at 2am when the first shots were fired. But that doesn't mean those shots did not happen, the video simply doesn't record it.
    I'm not saying there wasn't a shooter, I also never said I believe no one died before 515, that would be a stretch if true. Maybe most did die from the shots fired at Omar being all trigger happy or maybe they all bleed out around that time from Omar's shots. These are all assumptions, the shots in the video were prolonged just for one man, in this case it's either incompetence or conspiracy.

    I usually lean towards conspiracy but I can be wrong, either way politicians took advantage of this to push what agenda they wanted to.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by CJNator View Post
    Well with it wouldn't be all different if it was police either imo, orders are orders.



    I'm not saying there wasn't a shooter, I also never said I believe no one died before 515, that would be a stretch if true. Maybe most did die from the shots fired at Omar being all trigger happy or maybe they all bleed out around that time from Omar's shots. These are all assumptions, the shots in the video were prolonged just for one man, in this case it's either incompetence or conspiracy.

    I usually lean towards conspiracy but I can be wrong, either way politicians took advantage of this to push what agenda they wanted to.
    Occams razor bro.

    Orders are not orders. If your boss ordered you to print 1000 pictures of hitler and post them to randoms, youd say no. same applies. They arnt drones. Spend a day with a cop and youll quickly understand

    Are you suggesting there were 100+ people in the bathroom with Omar?

    Or even 49 people?

    In a bathroom?

    Ever seen a club bathroom?

    You follow conspiracy blindly. That's problematic. Youbassume the government always lies for an agenda. That clouds your judgment

    Incompetence or conspiracy are the only logical assumptions? Seriously?
    The fact that the FBI turned up after it turned into a hostage situation is important. They wouldn't have had a cop shot him earlier.

    Haha round in circles we go. Agree to disagree
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Orders are not orders. If your boss ordered you to print 1000 pictures of hitler and post them to randoms, youd say no. same applies. They arnt drones. Spend a day with a cop and youll quickly understand

    Are you suggesting there were 100+ people in the bathroom with Omar?

    Or even 49 people?

    In a bathroom?

    Ever seen a club bathroom?

    You follow conspiracy blindly. That's problematic. Youbassume the government always lies for an agenda. That clouds your judgment

    Incompetence or conspiracy are the only logical assumptions? Seriously?
    The fact that the FBI turned up after it turned into a hostage situation is important. They wouldn't have had a cop shot him earlier.

    Haha round in circles we go. Agree to disagree
    My friends father is a cop and the best ones are drones, they obviously think for themselves but the collective mindsets creates a drone mentality.


    I don't follow conspiracies blindly, I've mentioned plenty of times I personally will not concluded any story to be true, official or unofficial story. I never said they always lie but they do when they want to.

    The incompetence I speak of is the 3 hour stand off with he guy, possible stray bullets hitting people and possibly killing them, and how he passed the background check(not a part of that specific day but still relevant). The incompetence is towards the public sector generally.

    Conspiracy is merely speculation, not all conspiracies are but outrageous ones usually are even if they are proven to be true. How those 100 people were presumed dead at 515 is beyond me, that's why what I say is speculation.

    I take everything as a grain of salt and OK we can we can stop the circling lol.
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