OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN

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  1. OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN


    obamacare is a well crafted plan drawn up by big business...health care benefits is something business has been whining about for years, with obamacare they have a way out. in less than 2 years i would be surprised if even 10% of americans have employer sponsored healthcare..

    it is my opinion that obamacare was designed to fail...there is no way the government can take on such an expansive and expensive task as sponsored healthcare, americans are too spoiled and pampered with the way medicine is done today and in my opinion would not tolerate the canadian/british form of socialized medicine.

    i believe that republicans and democrats are in this together, with each playing their role...once obamacare fails [and it will fail] the republicans can say i told you so...and the democrats can blame the republicans for it's failure, so there is a out for both parties...in the end the big winner is american business which is finally out of the healthcare game, something it has been trying to do for decades, imo.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID


  2. It ALL about income redistribution and creating a self-perpetuating reliance on the Government.

    Reagan gave a speech about this in the early 1960s.

    Think Chicago politics, except on a national level.
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  3. Similar arguments were levied against social security, medicare/medicaid. If indeed ACA does happen to fail, then it should be quite easy to repeal. I empathize with the argument, although, I think we're putting the cart ahead of the horse. Let's wait and see how things play out (once the exchanges are up and running without issues) and then determine if the program is a failure.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Similar arguments were levied against social security, medicare/medicaid. If indeed ACA does happen to fail, then it should be quite easy to repeal. I empathize with the argument, although, I think we're putting the cart ahead of the horse. Let's wait and see how things play out (once the exchanges are up and running without issues) and then determine if the program is a failure.
    obamacare or not...the reality is that business is going to be out of healthcare benefits in the near future....imo, that is what the goal of obamacare was from the getgo.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  5. One thing longest time saddam hussein number one enemy on US America is electing obama hussein only in America Don King guessing would he may say
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ...in the end the big winner is american business which is finally out of the healthcare game, something it has been trying to do for decades, imo.
    In the end too Obama is winning changing Great Country very much to falling in line with rest
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    In the end too Obama is winning changing Great Country very much to falling in line with rest
    i understand why you would think that...obama seems to be against all the traditional things that made this country great.


    morality went for a downward spin under bill clinton, but at least he kept the economy strong!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  8. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    i understand why you would think that...obama seems to be against all the traditional things that made this country great.

    morality went for a downward spin under bill clinton, but at least he kept the economy strong!!!
    thats beacause the boomers came into power around that time. remember?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    thats beacause the boomers came into power around that time. remember?
    i am very aware of the negative influence we boomers have had on this country....i actually started a thread on this topic!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  10. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i am very aware of the negative influence we boomers have had on this country....i actually started a thread on this topic!!!
    Link?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    Link?
    BABY BOOMERS...WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED.

    it's here in the politic's section.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  12. The current political environment of our country is in an ideological gridlock that will define our future. It is an ideology based on growing our already massive federal government even larger and has the federal government step into roles never contemplated by the founders of this country -- and our president is the chief architect. But if we continue to follow this ideology, we can be certain that our children and grandchildren will suffer financial implications never foreseen by past generations.

    I believe most responsible Americans don't trust the ability of our government to handle anything in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

    I also believe that most Americans see the need for assistance programs for truly needy people. But it doesn't take much to see how carelessly and even recklessly many of these programs operate.

    When a leader tells you he's looking out for the less fortunate, check his personal charitable giving record before believing a word he says. However many of those who talk the most about compassion are only willing to look out for the needy with your money, not theirs. In this way, the current brand of charity is mostly about using the money of others to create greater dependence on the Government and less about incentives to better oneself and maintain some level of personal responsibility. In this way, Obamacare is truly all about income redistribution and creating even greater reliance on the government.

    It might sound noble to say we're providing health care for all, but without fundamental ideological changes, in the end Obamacare will be another top- heavy, inefficient program used to create more dependence on government. It will become another burden (perhaps the largest one ever) on the shoulders of Americans, and will bury us more deeply, and I fear - irreparably - in debt.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    The current political environment of our country is in an ideological gridlock that will define our future. It is an ideology based on growing our already massive federal government even larger and has the federal government step into roles never contemplated by the founders of this country -- and our president is the chief architect. But if we continue to follow this ideology, we can be certain that our children and grandchildren will suffer financial implications never foreseen by past generations.

    I believe most responsible Americans don't trust the ability of our government to handle anything in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

    I also believe that most Americans see the need for assistance programs for truly needy people. But it doesn't take much to see how carelessly and even recklessly many of these programs operate.

    When a leader tells you he's looking out for the less fortunate, check his personal charitable giving record before believing a word he says. However many of those who talk the most about compassion are only willing to look out for the needy with your money, not theirs. In this way, the current brand of charity is mostly about using the money of others to create greater dependence on the Government and less about incentives to better oneself and maintain some level of personal responsibility. In this way, Obamacare is truly all about income redistribution and creating even greater reliance on the government.

    It might sound noble to say we're providing health care for all, but without fundamental ideological changes, in the end Obamacare will be another top- heavy, inefficient program used to create more dependence on government. It will become another burden (perhaps the largest one ever) on the shoulders of Americans, and will bury us more deeply, and I fear - irreparably - in debt.
    they used to say that religion was the opiate of the masses that kept everyone in line...now a days it is high tech gadgets, as long as americans are distracted by smart phones/ipads/high tech games/facebook/twitter and numerous other gadgets they are content to be sheep.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    The current political environment of our country is in an ideological gridlock that will define our future. It is an ideology based on growing our already massive federal government even larger and has the federal government step into roles never contemplated by the founders of this country -- and our president is the chief architect. But if we continue to follow this ideology, we can be certain that our children and grandchildren will suffer financial implications never foreseen by past generations.

    I believe most responsible Americans don't trust the ability of our government to handle anything in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

    I also believe that most Americans see the need for assistance programs for truly needy people. But it doesn't take much to see how carelessly and even recklessly many of these programs operate.

    When a leader tells you he's looking out for the less fortunate, check his personal charitable giving record before believing a word he says. However many of those who talk the most about compassion are only willing to look out for the needy with your money, not theirs. In this way, the current brand of charity is mostly about using the money of others to create greater dependence on the Government and less about incentives to better oneself and maintain some level of personal responsibility. In this way, Obamacare is truly all about income redistribution and creating even greater reliance on the government.

    It might sound noble to say we're providing health care for all, but without fundamental ideological changes, in the end Obamacare will be another top- heavy, inefficient program used to create more dependence on government. It will become another burden (perhaps the largest one ever) on the shoulders of Americans, and will bury us more deeply, and I fear - irreparably - in debt.
    Beau is on the points unfortunate most 90 percents having the obama fed up political fatigue ignoring it all so disgusted from all am I having in conversations so ignoring the all the whole monty is standardized much not surprising to seeing Hillary next presidente US.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  15. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    now a days it is high tech gadgets, as long as americans are distracted by smart phones/ipads/high tech games/facebook/twitter and numerous other gadgets they are content to be sheep.
    Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Beau is on the points unfortunate most 90 percents having the obama fed up political fatigue ignoring it all so disgusted from all am I having in conversations so ignoring the all the whole monty is standardized much not surprising to seeing Hillary next presidente US.
    i don't see anyone the republicans have who could beat hillary....this is really a scary thought.

    ok, this might offend some people but it needs to be said...this is not a good time to be a white male in this country...
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it.
    Great line and very appropriate. Well done good sir

  18. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i don't see anyone the republicans have who could beat hillary....this is really a scary thought.

    ok, this might offend some people but it needs to be said...this is not a good time to be a white male in this country...
    I have been hearing a Hillary/Cory Booker is the next logical step. I am curious if Cruz will garner enough support. In this country the moderate/libertarians are always left out in the cold

  19. If the plan was to get businesses out of healthcare then why didnt the single payer system fail to pass?
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  20. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    If the plan was to get businesses out of healthcare then why didnt the single payer system fail to pass?
    red herring....the end result will be business will no longer be paying for employees healthcare.....

    republicans and democrats are just playing their assigned roles, big business is pulling the strings of the puppet/figurehead politicians.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  21. That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

    By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

    By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?
    One thing Josh is why understanding from others telling me Obama to making much promise in giving his good word that for those on the health plans they already having will not have to paying more I for one no like to be assured for persons honest integrity then only it is really very sad deception on hard working folks taking the word of a man.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard

  23. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

    By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?
    employers have been given a year before obamacare goes into play for them, so in effect it hasn't even started...how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer won't be effected before it even begins?
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  24. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer won't be effected before it even begins?
    How can you?

    Your central premise is that obamacare will result in a massive drop in employer provided healthcare.. well

    " how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer [WILL] be effected before it even begins?"
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  25. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    How can you?

    Your central premise is that obamacare will result in a massive drop in employer provided healthcare.. well

    " how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer [WILL] be effected before it even begins?"
    because so many employers are already dropping out...if they don't drop coverage altogether, employee contributions and co-payments will be unaffordable...either way i say that in 2 years less than 10% of business's will offer any plan at all, at least none that will be affordable.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  26. Ok, so my comments on the lack of change in healthcare that my family is experiencing between us and our employers is irrelevant because I cant see into the future and you obviously can and through your crystal ball you see we will be dropped.

    Is that about right?
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  27. Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  28. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    I know this wasn't asked of me, but this is having major implications within my corporation.

    Hiring practices are changing; part time is becoming the norm.

    Insurance premiums are SKYROCKETING, increasing at a rate I would have never imagined possible.

    The costs of compliance within our corporation is well in excess of one hundred million dollars.

    Yes, we have a problem with people being uninsured.

    But, the solution was not to hand everything over to the government (and our beloved and trusted IRS police), but to deal with those who did not have insurance and provide a financial incentive to individuals who go off whatever subsidy program is in place and provide financial incentive to corporations to provide additional types of coverage.

    Corporations work far better with incentives, than they do with punishment and IRS forced compliance.

    I just heard the speech by our "leader"; the Chief Liar of the United States, and I could just vomit.

    He is an antagonist to the two party system.

    He has failed his essential purpose as a leader. He is a speech-maker, not a leader and certainly not a President.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    i am not talking out my ass when temps are filling positions that normally would have been held by full time employees, the reason...not wanting to pay healthcare benefits. josh, if you follow business at all you know that healthcare benefits is something business has been trying to get out of for a long time...obamacare care gives business the excuse it needed. i work for a huge multinational, i know my insurance coverage is less every year but premiums and co-pays keep going up. my company would benefit in a big way if it were able to get out of healthcare benefits.

    a local news story here told of a grocery store owner [bob baesler]who had offered healthcare benefits to employees for over 40 years, and in an interview said he was going to stop healthcare benefits because obamacare was making it to expensive to continue to do so...i am not making this up, or taling out my ass, this is truth!!!
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  30. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    No need getting too fussy Josh only are we here trying to have civil conversation with respectfulness
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

    Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard
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