OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN

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    OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN


    obamacare is a well crafted plan drawn up by big business...health care benefits is something business has been whining about for years, with obamacare they have a way out. in less than 2 years i would be surprised if even 10% of americans have employer sponsored healthcare..

    it is my opinion that obamacare was designed to fail...there is no way the government can take on such an expansive and expensive task as sponsored healthcare, americans are too spoiled and pampered with the way medicine is done today and in my opinion would not tolerate the canadian/british form of socialized medicine.

    i believe that republicans and democrats are in this together, with each playing their role...once obamacare fails [and it will fail] the republicans can say i told you so...and the democrats can blame the republicans for it's failure, so there is a out for both parties...in the end the big winner is american business which is finally out of the healthcare game, something it has been trying to do for decades, imo.
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    It ALL about income redistribution and creating a self-perpetuating reliance on the Government.

    Reagan gave a speech about this in the early 1960s.

    Think Chicago politics, except on a national level.
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    Similar arguments were levied against social security, medicare/medicaid. If indeed ACA does happen to fail, then it should be quite easy to repeal. I empathize with the argument, although, I think we're putting the cart ahead of the horse. Let's wait and see how things play out (once the exchanges are up and running without issues) and then determine if the program is a failure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Similar arguments were levied against social security, medicare/medicaid. If indeed ACA does happen to fail, then it should be quite easy to repeal. I empathize with the argument, although, I think we're putting the cart ahead of the horse. Let's wait and see how things play out (once the exchanges are up and running without issues) and then determine if the program is a failure.
    obamacare or not...the reality is that business is going to be out of healthcare benefits in the near future....imo, that is what the goal of obamacare was from the getgo.
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    One thing longest time saddam hussein number one enemy on US America is electing obama hussein only in America Don King guessing would he may say
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    ...in the end the big winner is american business which is finally out of the healthcare game, something it has been trying to do for decades, imo.
    In the end too Obama is winning changing Great Country very much to falling in line with rest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    In the end too Obama is winning changing Great Country very much to falling in line with rest
    i understand why you would think that...obama seems to be against all the traditional things that made this country great.


    morality went for a downward spin under bill clinton, but at least he kept the economy strong!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post

    i understand why you would think that...obama seems to be against all the traditional things that made this country great.

    morality went for a downward spin under bill clinton, but at least he kept the economy strong!!!
    thats beacause the boomers came into power around that time. remember?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    thats beacause the boomers came into power around that time. remember?
    i am very aware of the negative influence we boomers have had on this country....i actually started a thread on this topic!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i am very aware of the negative influence we boomers have had on this country....i actually started a thread on this topic!!!
    Link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    Link?
    BABY BOOMERS...WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED.

    it's here in the politic's section.
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    The current political environment of our country is in an ideological gridlock that will define our future. It is an ideology based on growing our already massive federal government even larger and has the federal government step into roles never contemplated by the founders of this country -- and our president is the chief architect. But if we continue to follow this ideology, we can be certain that our children and grandchildren will suffer financial implications never foreseen by past generations.

    I believe most responsible Americans don't trust the ability of our government to handle anything in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

    I also believe that most Americans see the need for assistance programs for truly needy people. But it doesn't take much to see how carelessly and even recklessly many of these programs operate.

    When a leader tells you he's looking out for the less fortunate, check his personal charitable giving record before believing a word he says. However many of those who talk the most about compassion are only willing to look out for the needy with your money, not theirs. In this way, the current brand of charity is mostly about using the money of others to create greater dependence on the Government and less about incentives to better oneself and maintain some level of personal responsibility. In this way, Obamacare is truly all about income redistribution and creating even greater reliance on the government.

    It might sound noble to say we're providing health care for all, but without fundamental ideological changes, in the end Obamacare will be another top- heavy, inefficient program used to create more dependence on government. It will become another burden (perhaps the largest one ever) on the shoulders of Americans, and will bury us more deeply, and I fear - irreparably - in debt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    The current political environment of our country is in an ideological gridlock that will define our future. It is an ideology based on growing our already massive federal government even larger and has the federal government step into roles never contemplated by the founders of this country -- and our president is the chief architect. But if we continue to follow this ideology, we can be certain that our children and grandchildren will suffer financial implications never foreseen by past generations.

    I believe most responsible Americans don't trust the ability of our government to handle anything in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

    I also believe that most Americans see the need for assistance programs for truly needy people. But it doesn't take much to see how carelessly and even recklessly many of these programs operate.

    When a leader tells you he's looking out for the less fortunate, check his personal charitable giving record before believing a word he says. However many of those who talk the most about compassion are only willing to look out for the needy with your money, not theirs. In this way, the current brand of charity is mostly about using the money of others to create greater dependence on the Government and less about incentives to better oneself and maintain some level of personal responsibility. In this way, Obamacare is truly all about income redistribution and creating even greater reliance on the government.

    It might sound noble to say we're providing health care for all, but without fundamental ideological changes, in the end Obamacare will be another top- heavy, inefficient program used to create more dependence on government. It will become another burden (perhaps the largest one ever) on the shoulders of Americans, and will bury us more deeply, and I fear - irreparably - in debt.
    they used to say that religion was the opiate of the masses that kept everyone in line...now a days it is high tech gadgets, as long as americans are distracted by smart phones/ipads/high tech games/facebook/twitter and numerous other gadgets they are content to be sheep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    The current political environment of our country is in an ideological gridlock that will define our future. It is an ideology based on growing our already massive federal government even larger and has the federal government step into roles never contemplated by the founders of this country -- and our president is the chief architect. But if we continue to follow this ideology, we can be certain that our children and grandchildren will suffer financial implications never foreseen by past generations.

    I believe most responsible Americans don't trust the ability of our government to handle anything in an efficient and cost-effective manner.

    I also believe that most Americans see the need for assistance programs for truly needy people. But it doesn't take much to see how carelessly and even recklessly many of these programs operate.

    When a leader tells you he's looking out for the less fortunate, check his personal charitable giving record before believing a word he says. However many of those who talk the most about compassion are only willing to look out for the needy with your money, not theirs. In this way, the current brand of charity is mostly about using the money of others to create greater dependence on the Government and less about incentives to better oneself and maintain some level of personal responsibility. In this way, Obamacare is truly all about income redistribution and creating even greater reliance on the government.

    It might sound noble to say we're providing health care for all, but without fundamental ideological changes, in the end Obamacare will be another top- heavy, inefficient program used to create more dependence on government. It will become another burden (perhaps the largest one ever) on the shoulders of Americans, and will bury us more deeply, and I fear - irreparably - in debt.
    Beau is on the points unfortunate most 90 percents having the obama fed up political fatigue ignoring it all so disgusted from all am I having in conversations so ignoring the all the whole monty is standardized much not surprising to seeing Hillary next presidente US.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    now a days it is high tech gadgets, as long as americans are distracted by smart phones/ipads/high tech games/facebook/twitter and numerous other gadgets they are content to be sheep.
    Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Beau is on the points unfortunate most 90 percents having the obama fed up political fatigue ignoring it all so disgusted from all am I having in conversations so ignoring the all the whole monty is standardized much not surprising to seeing Hillary next presidente US.
    i don't see anyone the republicans have who could beat hillary....this is really a scary thought.

    ok, this might offend some people but it needs to be said...this is not a good time to be a white male in this country...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Gracchus: I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it.
    Great line and very appropriate. Well done good sir
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i don't see anyone the republicans have who could beat hillary....this is really a scary thought.

    ok, this might offend some people but it needs to be said...this is not a good time to be a white male in this country...
    I have been hearing a Hillary/Cory Booker is the next logical step. I am curious if Cruz will garner enough support. In this country the moderate/libertarians are always left out in the cold
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    If the plan was to get businesses out of healthcare then why didnt the single payer system fail to pass?
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    If the plan was to get businesses out of healthcare then why didnt the single payer system fail to pass?
    red herring....the end result will be business will no longer be paying for employees healthcare.....

    republicans and democrats are just playing their assigned roles, big business is pulling the strings of the puppet/figurehead politicians.
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    That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

    By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

    By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?
    One thing Josh is why understanding from others telling me Obama to making much promise in giving his good word that for those on the health plans they already having will not have to paying more I for one no like to be assured for persons honest integrity then only it is really very sad deception on hard working folks taking the word of a man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That is hardly a red herring. It directly relates to the topic at hand. If anything the point of this thread is a red herring against the affordable healthcare act

    By the way, me and my wife are both keeping are employer provided healthcare. If what your saying is true shouldnt we be loosing our healthcare? I work for the largest company in the city which subsequently employs a vast majority of residents and my wife works for a fairly small company. Wouldnt at least one of us be loosing our healthcare?
    employers have been given a year before obamacare goes into play for them, so in effect it hasn't even started...how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer won't be effected before it even begins?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer won't be effected before it even begins?
    How can you?

    Your central premise is that obamacare will result in a massive drop in employer provided healthcare.. well

    " how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer [WILL] be effected before it even begins?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    How can you?

    Your central premise is that obamacare will result in a massive drop in employer provided healthcare.. well

    " how can you be so sure your healthcare from your employer [WILL] be effected before it even begins?"
    because so many employers are already dropping out...if they don't drop coverage altogether, employee contributions and co-payments will be unaffordable...either way i say that in 2 years less than 10% of business's will offer any plan at all, at least none that will be affordable.
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    Ok, so my comments on the lack of change in healthcare that my family is experiencing between us and our employers is irrelevant because I cant see into the future and you obviously can and through your crystal ball you see we will be dropped.

    Is that about right?
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    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    I know this wasn't asked of me, but this is having major implications within my corporation.

    Hiring practices are changing; part time is becoming the norm.

    Insurance premiums are SKYROCKETING, increasing at a rate I would have never imagined possible.

    The costs of compliance within our corporation is well in excess of one hundred million dollars.

    Yes, we have a problem with people being uninsured.

    But, the solution was not to hand everything over to the government (and our beloved and trusted IRS police), but to deal with those who did not have insurance and provide a financial incentive to individuals who go off whatever subsidy program is in place and provide financial incentive to corporations to provide additional types of coverage.

    Corporations work far better with incentives, than they do with punishment and IRS forced compliance.

    I just heard the speech by our "leader"; the Chief Liar of the United States, and I could just vomit.

    He is an antagonist to the two party system.

    He has failed his essential purpose as a leader. He is a speech-maker, not a leader and certainly not a President.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    i am not talking out my ass when temps are filling positions that normally would have been held by full time employees, the reason...not wanting to pay healthcare benefits. josh, if you follow business at all you know that healthcare benefits is something business has been trying to get out of for a long time...obamacare care gives business the excuse it needed. i work for a huge multinational, i know my insurance coverage is less every year but premiums and co-pays keep going up. my company would benefit in a big way if it were able to get out of healthcare benefits.

    a local news story here told of a grocery store owner [bob baesler]who had offered healthcare benefits to employees for over 40 years, and in an interview said he was going to stop healthcare benefits because obamacare was making it to expensive to continue to do so...i am not making this up, or taling out my ass, this is truth!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Let me ask.. if your claiming so many are dropping coverage already do you have any statistics that shows the amount of emploers who have dropped healthcare vs the amount of employers who havent? Preferably it will be a figure that measures both businesses who are dropping coverage and the number of employees veing affected.

    Im sure you have this data in order to be so sure it is such a huge phenomenon currently occuring and trending in such a way that in less than 2 years you can predict less than 10% will offer healthcare. If you dont have this data then please explain the rationality behind your future predictions and accusations because without actually evaluating any kind of data to reach such conclusions it would appear you are just talking out of your ass
    No need getting too fussy Josh only are we here trying to have civil conversation with respectfulness
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    one of the guys who was laid off at my work and never called back told me that he was offered COBRA at $600 a week to continue the same healthcare plan...we are talking millions of dollars for a major corporation like where i work at to foot the bill for 70,000 employees at $600 a week.


    there is a $million reasons why business wants out of healthcare, more like a $billion reasons nationwide...i am not talking out my ass, business is very, very motivated to be out of healthcare....obamacare gives them the opportunity without looking like the bad guy.

    if you think about it, it makes sense that obamacare was a plot hatched up by business, with politicians going along with it. i am sure the politicians were sold a bill of goods like...we can end unemployment with all the new hires we could afford to hire....the extra profits would allow us to reopen closed plants and put america back in the forefront in manufacturing...

    i don't believe for a minute any benefit to the average joe will come from business reaping more profits, not for a minute!!!!!!!
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    Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine - 1961

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

    Transcript:

    Ronald Reagan’s 1961 Coffeecup speech – full text
    Now back in 1927 an American socialist, Norman Thomas, six times candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, said the American people would never vote for socialism. But he said under the name of liberalism the American people will adopt every fragment of the socialist program.

    There are many ways in which our government has invaded the precincts of private citizens, the method of earning a living. Our government is in business to the extent over owning more than 19,000 businesses covering different lines of activity. This amounts to a fifth of the total industrial capacity of the United States.

    But at the moment I’d like to talk about another way. Because this threat is with us and at the moment is more imminent.

    One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.

    Now, the American people, if you put it to them about socialized medicine and gave them a chance to choose, would unhesitatingly vote against it. We had an example of this. Under the Truman administration it was proposed that we have a compulsory health insurance program for all people in the United States, and, of course, the American people unhesitatingly rejected this.


    So, with the American people on record as not wanting socialized medicine, Congressman Ferrand introduced the Ferrand Bill. This was the idea that all people of social security age should be brought under a program of compulsory health insurance. Now this would not only be our senior citizens, this would be the dependents and those who are disabled, this would be young people if they are dependents of someone eligible for Social Security.

    Now, Congressman Ferrand brought the program out on that idea of just for that group of people. But Congressman Ferrand was subscribing to this foot in the door philosophy, because he said “if we can only break through and get our foot inside the door, then we can expand the progam after that.”

    Walter Ruther said “It’s no secret that the United Automobile Workers is officially on record as backing a program of national health insurance.” And by national health insurance, he meant socialized medicine for every American. Well, let’s see what the socialists themselves have to say about it.

    They say: “Once the Ferrrand bill is passed, this nation will be provided with a mechanism for socialized medicince. Capable of indefinite expansion in every direction until it includes the entire population.’ Well, we can’t say we haven’t been warned.

    Now, Congressman Ferrand is no longer a congressman of the United States government. He has been replaced, not in his particular assignment, but in his backing of such a bill, by Congressman King of California. It is presented in the idea of a great emergency that millions of our senior citizens are unable to provide needed medical care. But this ignores the fact that in the last decade a hundred and twenty seven million of our citicizens in just ten years, have come under the protection of some form of privately owned medical or hospital insurance.

    Now the advocates of this bill, when you try to oppose it, challenge you on an emotional basis. They say “What would you do, throw these poor old people out to die with no medical attention?” That’s ridiculous and of course no one’s has advocated it. As a matter of fact, in the last session of Congress a bill was adopted known as the Kerr-Mills Bill. Now without even allowing this bill to be tried, to see if it works, they have introduced this King Bill which is really the Ferrand Bill.

    What is the Kerr-Mills Bill? It is a frank recognition of the medical need or problem of the senior citizens that I have mentioned. And it is provided from the federal government money to the states and the local communities that can be used at the discretion of the state to help those people who need it. Now what reason could the other people have for backing a bill which says “we insist on compulsory health insurance for senior citizens on the basis of age alone; regardless of whether they’re worth millions of dollars, whether they have an income, whether they’re protected by their own insurance, whether they have savings.”

    I think we can be excused for believing that as ex-c0ngressman Ferrand said, this was simply an excuse to bring about what they wanted all the time – socialized medicine.

    James Madison in 1788, speaking to the Virginia Convention said: “Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations. ”They want to attach this bill to Social Security. And they say here is a great insurance program now instituted, now working.

    Let’s take a look at social security itself. Again, very few of us disagree with the original premise that there should be some form of saving that would keep destitution from following unemployment by reason of death, disability or old age. And to this end Social Security was adopted. But it was never intended to supplant private savings, private insurance, pension programs of unions and industries.

    Now in our country under our free enterprise system, we have seen medicine reach the greatest heights that it has in any country in the world. Today, the relationship between patient and doctor in this country is something to be envied any place. The privacy, the care that is given to a person, the right to chose a doctor, the right to go from one doctor to the other.

    But let’s also look from the other side, at the freedom the doctor loses. A doctor would be reluctant to say this. Well, like you, I am only a patient, so I can say it in his behalf. The doctor begins to lose freedoms; it’s like telling a lie, and one leads to another. First you decide that the doctor can have so many patients. They are equally divided among the various doctors by the government. But then the doctors aren’t equally divided geographically, so a doctor decides he wants to practice in one town and the government has to say to him you can’t live in that town, they already have enough doctors. You have to go someplace else. And from here it is only a short step to dictating where he will go.

    This is a freedom that I wonder whether any of us have the right to take from any human being.

    I know how I’d feel, if you my fellow citizens decided that to be an actor, I had to become a government employee and work in a national theater. Take it into your own occupation or that of your husband, all of us can see what happens – once you establish the precedent that the government can determine a man’s working place and his working methods, determine his employment. From here it is a short step to all the rest of socialism, to determining his pay and pretty soon your son won’t decide when he’s in school, where he will go or what they will do for a living. He will wait for the government to tell them where he will go to work and what he will do.

    In this country of ours, took place the greatest revolution that has ever taken place in world’s history. The only true revolution. Every other revolution simply exchanged one set of rulers for another. But here for the first time in all the thousands of years of man’s relation to man, a little group of the men, the founding fathers - for the first time – established the idea that you and I had within ourselves the God given right and ability to determine our own destiny.

    This freedom was built into our government with safeguards. We talk democracy today. And strangely we let democracy begin to assume the aspect of majority rule is all that is needed. Well, majority rule is a fine aspect of democracy, provided there are guarantees written in to our government concerning the rights of the individual and of the minorities.

    What can we do about this? Well, you and I can do a great deal. We can write to our congressmen and our senators. We can say right now that we want no further encroachment on these individual liberties and freedoms. And at the moment, the key issue is, we do not want socialized medicine.

    In Washington today, 40,000 letters, less than a hundred per congressman, are evidence of a trend in public thinking.

    Representative Halleck of Indiana has said, “When the American people want something from Congress, regardless of its political complexion, if they make their wants known, Congress does what the people want.”

    So write, and if your this man writes back to you and tells you that he too is for free enterprise, that we have these great services and so forth, that must be performed by government, don’t let him get away with it. Show that you have not been convinced. Write a letter right back and tell him that you believe in government economy and fiscal responsibility; that you know governments don’t tax to get the money the need; governments will always find a need for the money they get and that you demand the continuation of our traditional free enterprise system. You and I can do this. The only way we can do it is by writing to our congressmen even we believe that he is on our side to begin with. Write to strengthen his hand. Give him the ability to stand before his colleagues in Congress and say “I have heard from my constituents and this is what they want.”

    Write those letters now; call your friends and tell them to write them. If you don’t, this program I promise you will pass just as surely as the sun will come up tomorrow and behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country. Until, one day, as Normal Thomas said we will awake to find that we have socialism. And if you don’t do this and if I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children, what it once was like in America when men were free.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i am not talking out my ass when temps are filling positions that normally would have been held by full time employees, the reason...not wanting to pay healthcare benefits. josh, if you follow business at all you know that healthcare benefits is something business has been trying to get out of for a long time...obamacare care gives business the excuse it needed. i work for a huge multinational, i know my insurance coverage is less every year but premiums and co-pays keep going up. my company would benefit in a big way if it were able to get out of healthcare benefits.

    a local news story here told of a grocery store owner [bob baesler]who had offered healthcare benefits to employees for over 40 years, and in an interview said he was going to stop healthcare benefits because obamacare was making it to expensive to continue to do so...i am not making this up, or taling out my ass, this is truth!!!
    A local news story is hardly evidence of anything except what occurred with that one particular business. This is a law that affects the entire nation so if you are going to make the claim "X" will happen across the nation it is a bit foolish to think so just because "x" happened to one person in one town. Give me national statistics if you want me to believe this is a phenomenon occurring at the alarming rate you suggest. If you cant, then I m sorry you are indeed talking out of your ass.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    A local news story is hardly evidence of anything except what occurred with that one particular business. This is a law that affects the entire nation so if you are going to make the claim "X" will happen across the nation it is a bit foolish to think so just because "x" happened to one person in one town. Give me national statistics if you want me to believe this is a phenomenon occurring at the alarming rate you suggest. If you cant, then I m sorry you are indeed talking out of your ass.
    do some research my friend on the trend towards part time versus full time workers...
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    A handful of stories isnt indicative of a nation wide trend.

    So to be clear, you dont have these numbers correct? So then may I ask what are you basing your predictions off of? A few stories on the local news about a few local businesses diking over their employees. If so that is quite a leap. Let me ask if I saw a story on a few people who were sexually harassed by their boss should I assume this is a nation wide event thats happening all over in the majority of workplaces?

    Im not taking side here, just dont like the fear mongering discourse that paints this distopic future and is based on absolutely nothing but the convictions of a few who have this fear "the man is out to get them". What your doing is the equivalent to standing on a soap box in the middle of town and yelling the sky is falling just because you seen a shooting star.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    A handful of stories isnt indicative of a nation wide trend.

    So to be clear, you dont have these numbers correct? So then may I ask what are you basing your predictions off of? A few stories on the local news about a few local businesses diking over their employees. If so that is quite a leap. Let me ask if I saw a story on a few people who were sexually harassed by their boss should I assume this is a nation wide event thats happening all over in the majority of workplaces?

    Im not taking side here, just dont like the fear mongering discourse that paints this distopic future and is based on absolutely nothing but the convictions of a few who have this fear "the man is out to get them". What your doing is the equivalent to standing on a soap box in the middle of town and yelling the sky is falling just because you seen a shooting star.
    no actually what i am doing is presenting a theory...a theory based on my personal experiences and i will admit some conjecture.
    ...the theory that politicians are corrupt is a theory i can't claim as my own, it has been around as long as there have been politicians....the theory that business wants out of the healthcare benefits game is also a very common theory...the theory that obamacare will fail is most certainly not my original theory.....the trend towards business hiring part timers to avoid healthcare benefits is not a theory but proven fact, if i could post links i would, but it wouldn't take much for a clever youngster like yourself to find all the facts you need with very little effort.

    your less than amiable replies in this thread surprises me, i didn't expect that from you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    but it wouldn't take much for a clever youngster like yourself to find all the facts you need with very little effort...
    closest have I ever see to t going satirical on someone
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    just dont like the fear mongering discourse that paints this distopic future and is based on absolutely nothing but the convictions of a few who have this fear "the man is out to get them"...
    "The man" is out to getting his, (or his ideologies) at the expense of "them"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    "The man" is out to getting his, (or his ideologies) at the expense of "them"
    business today only looks out for stockholders and feels it has a responsibility to do whatever possible to increase profits...if employees get hurt in the process they consider it collateral damage...

    by adopting this ideology business has in effect truely made it a 'out to get them mentality'........the days when good/loyal employees could count on being treated fairly are long gone, when corporate gets told profits need to be higher, those good/loyal employees are throw under the bus and escorted of the premises. because cutting employees is 1st place they look when cutting costs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    obamacare is a well crafted plan drawn up by big business...health care benefits is something business has been whining about for years, with obamacare they have a way out. in less than 2 years i would be surprised if even 10% of americans have employer sponsored healthcare..

    it is my opinion that obamacare was designed to fail...there is no way the government can take on such an expansive and expensive task as sponsored healthcare, americans are too spoiled and pampered with the way medicine is done today and in my opinion would not tolerate the canadian/british form of socialized medicine.

    i believe that republicans and democrats are in this together, with each playing their role...once obamacare fails [and it will fail] the republicans can say i told you so...and the democrats can blame the republicans for it's failure, so there is a out for both parties...in the end the big winner is american business which is finally out of the healthcare game, something it has been trying to do for decades, imo.
    Hey bigt...havent been around. Dont you miss those days when you can go to the doc and if you had no money they would still treat you? Now the same people in the same position have even less money, since they by law buy insurance...and that crappy policy still have you paying a $100 deductible just for a visit.
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