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OBAMACARE...JUST A SMOKESCREEN

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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    As far as I know...the insurance companies actually wrote out most of Obamacare.
    I would rather they do it, than Congress.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    I would rather they do it, than Congress.
    I agree on the congress part...but insurance companies have a big incentive to write the law as well. My opinion there should be no law.
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    I've seen it help people already so I'm biased.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    I've seen it help people already so I'm biased.
    I understand...its helping people and its also hurting people. I wish it helped everybody.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Its 50 employees.
    I know it was some where around there thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    No its not. They can't charge you more than 9.5% of your gross income anyway. By law. They can't gouge you, they can't raise rates more than 10% in one calendar year. By law. If people would actually read it, they would know.
    but what happens when the government realizes it can't afford to pay subsidies to offset the cost that employers were paying...where is this money going to come from?
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    I've seen it help more than hurt. I'm neck deep in it. Actually got people through Healthcare.gov...but you won't read or hear about that on the news. Its a boring story.



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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    but what happens when the government realizes it can't afford to pay subsidies to offset the cost that employers were paying...where is this money going to come from?
    If you look at the average subsidy cost per individual to those who qualify, it actually costs less than what the Bush tax cuts cost the government. The long term costs drop in roughly 5-7 years. The increase in revenue from the new customers that are forced into the system offsets the increase in benefits paid by the insurance companies. As with ALL insurance, its math.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    No its not. They can't charge you more than 9.5% of your gross income anyway. By law. They can't gouge you, they can't raise rates more than 10% in one calendar year. By law. If people would actually read it, they would know.
    Question since you seem to be in the know... If someone works for a large company that pays for its employees insurance. Is that person going to be forced to enroll in the new health care plan?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    If you look at the average subsidy cost per individual to those who qualify, it actually costs less than what the Bush tax cuts cost the government. The long term costs drop in roughly 5-7 years. The increase in revenue from the new customers that are forced into the system offsets the increase in benefits paid by the insurance companies. As with ALL insurance, its math.
    but it seems the majority of currently uninsured will be doing much more taking than giving. and i know many now who get free healthcare from the government and they are the worse abusers of the system. people who haven't had healthcare in many years are going to have lots of needs/costs.

    the only possible way this has a chance to work is to regulate healthcare cost, imo.
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    Over the past two weeks I have read numerous published reports (from legitimate sources) showing that in 45 out of 50 states premiums are SKYROCKETING. Conservatively (depending on age and state) these increases range from 35% to 156%, and under certain conditions can be much, much higher, and can have annual deductibles of approx. $4,000 per family member, per year.

    But wait, President Soetoro told us that we would ALL save $2500 a year. The current projections are that it will cost most people an additional approx $7500 per year. That is a swing of $10,000.

    Oh, and President Soetoro promised we would ALL get to keep our existing doctors. Sorry; that is not the truth.

    And President Soetoro promised we would have the option of keeping our existing health care plan. Once again -- sorry; that is not the truth.

    There is conclusive EVIDENCE that President Soetoro knew the federal websites would not work prior to the date they were deployed. He went ahead anyway. Details, details.

    Maybe its just me, but in a short amount of time the promises that were made to "sell this to us" have all changed.

    Imagine that - promises unfulfilled. Does that sound anything like Benghazi, the IRS scandle, Fast and Furious, and on, and on , and on.

    I'm sure they'll try to blame that on Bush, too.

    So much for transparency or personal responsibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    but it seems the majority of currently uninsured will be doing much more taking than giving. and i know many now who get free healthcare from the government and they are the worse abusers of the system. people who haven't had healthcare in many years are going to have lots of needs/costs.

    the only possible way this has a chance to work is to regulate healthcare cost, imo.
    When someone forces you to pay for something, you wanna get something back. Also as taxes raise and regulations go up, there tends to be less giving. Think of how it was before goverment got their hands on the health care system, you can go to many clinics and if you had no money they would still love to help you.

    Problem with regulating healthcare costs is there will be less incentives for people to work in the medical field.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Beau you also belief the big business, republicans, media all conspiring here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Question since you seem to be in the know... If someone works for a large company that pays for its employees insurance. Is that person going to be forced to enroll in the new health care plan?

    Only if the plan is not QHF...in other words, the plan sucks. If not and the employee contributes, no. But you are always forced into to what the employer wants to do....so in this sense, with the ACA you have a choice now. Stick with what your employere wants, or if he is forcing you into a ****yy plan and/or paying more than 9.5% of your gross income, you can leave and find other insurance AND qualify for a subsidy. As of now, a family of 4 earning 94k MAGI and under will get something.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    When someone forces you to pay for something, you wanna get something back. Also as taxes raise and regulations go up, there tends to be less giving. Think of how it was before goverment got their hands on the health care system, you can go to many clinics and if you had no money they would still love to help you.

    Problem with regulating healthcare costs is there will be less incentives for people to work in the medical field.
    Actually more...you have more paying customers that are backed by the government. Its why most insurance companies are expanding in their local strongholds.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Over the past two weeks I have read numerous published reports (from legitimate sources) showing that in 45 out of 50 states premiums are SKYROCKETING. Conservatively (depending on age and state) these increases range from 35% to 156%, and under certain conditions can be much, much higher, and can have annual deductibles of approx. $4,000 per family member, per year.

    But wait, President Soetoro told us that we would ALL save $2500 a year. The current projections are that it will cost most people an additional approx $7500 per year. That is a swing of $10,000.

    Oh, and President Soetoro promised we would ALL get to keep our existing doctors. Sorry; that is not the truth.

    And President Soetoro promised we would have the option of keeping our existing health care plan. Once again -- sorry; that is not the truth.

    There is conclusive EVIDENCE that President Soetoro knew the federal websites would not work prior to the date they were deployed. He went ahead anyway. Details, details.

    Maybe its just me, but in a short amount of time the promises that were made to "sell this to us" have all changed.

    Imagine that - promises unfulfilled. Does that sound anything like Benghazi, the IRS scandle, Fast and Furious, and on, and on , and on.

    I'm sure they'll try to blame that on Bush, too.

    So much for transparency or personal responsibility.


    There is so much wrong in this, I can't even comment. Its why normal people won't get the plain, boring truth about this.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Actually more...you have more paying customers that are backed by the government. Its why most insurance companies are expanding in their local strongholds.
    How is the goverment backing anyone? They are forcing people to buy insurance, and they steal your hard earned income to back you with your own money they already took from you.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Beau you also belief the big business, republicans, media all conspiring here?
    I believe big business is and should be in the job of maximizing profits/returns to shareholders; within moral and legal boundaries.

    I believe the American media has a very heavy socially progressive spin. I do not believe there is a lot of objectivity in the media. Candidly, I believe the media has given the President a hall pass on many difficult issues. Regardless of which adminsitration is in place, the media should have an objective and even somewhat adversarial role, and drive difficult issues to closesure. Right now, with our instant, ADD-like communication, I believe the current adminsitration just delays the issues, and eventually most people just lose interest.

    I believe the Republcans are pursuing the undefined objective and lack a cohesive position.

    In short, I do not believe they are all conspiring together, but they don't seem to need to - because acting independently they are able to cause enough havic as it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    There is so much wrong in this, I can't even comment. Its why normal people won't get the plain, boring truth about this.
    Im almost positive I heard that exact rant on Rush Limbah like a week ago, or it may have been a Clip played on the Daily Show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    How is the goverment backing anyone? They are forcing people to buy insurance, and they steal your hard earned income to back you with your own money they already took from you.

    The government is backing the subsidies being paid, which forces insurance companies to pay claims/benefits, as these people are now able to go to doctors SINCE they have insurance. When you force people to buy private insurance, backed by subsidies by the government, you have an increase in demand in the medical community....



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Actually more...you have more paying customers that are backed by the government. Its why most insurance companies are expanding in their local strongholds.
    but who is going to back the government...where is this money going to come from? business wanted out of heathcare benefits because of cost, and now the government is going to take over this cost? we are being told the government is too far in debt already, how can it take on this huge, additional cost?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    There is so much wrong in this, I can't even comment. Its why normal people won't get the plain, boring truth about this.
    I think what you might mean is there is so much of this you disagree with. That is alot different.

    Neither of us is the determinant of what is right and wrong.

    But I would ask you if we were not told (1) $2500 savings, (2) keep your current plan, and (3) keep your existing doctor?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I believe big business is and should be in the job of maximizing profits/returns to shareholders; within moral and legal boundaries.

    I believe the American media has a very heavy socially progressive spin. I do not believe there is a lot of objectivity in the media. Candidly, I believe the media has given the President a hall pass on many difficult issues. Regardless of which adminsitration is in place, the media should have an objective and even somewhat adversarial role, and drive difficult issues to closesure. Right now, with our instant, ADD-like communication, I believe the current adminsitration just delays the issues, and eventually most people just lose interest.

    I believe the Republcans are pursuing the undefined objective and lack a cohesive position.

    In short, I do not believe they are all conspiring together, but they don't seem to need to - because acting independently they are able to cause enough havic as it is.
    Keep in mind the mainstream media has heavy influence by the CIA through "Operation Mockingbird." Just this past July a little reform nobody took noticed that passed just this past January kicked in called the "Smith-Mundt Modernization act of 2012 (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr5736ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr5736ih.pdf)" as part of the unconstitutional NDAA act that gives the authority for the CIA to flow propaganda through the media into overdrive.
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    ax1 your beliefs on the big business, republicans, media all conspiring here with Obama on Obamacare?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I think what you might mean is there is so much of this you disagree with. That is alot different.

    Neither of us is the determinant of what is right and wrong.

    But I would ask you if we were not told (1) $2500 savings, (2) keep your current plan, and (3) keep your existing doctor?

    Actually no, you are simply wrong about much of it.

    1. I pay half of what marketplace plan is for my family.

    2. I can keep my current plan.

    3. I can keep my doctors.

    In the marketplace you can choose an HMO, PPO, HSA plan, etc.....so all the bologna about being forced into certain doctors and not being able to keep you plan is bogus. If you are forced out of your plan its because your plan will cease to exist by the carrier, which happened all the time BEFORE the ACA and you would be migrated to another plan that either A. Is a QHF which qualifies for a subsidy, B. Is equivalent to what you have but have wellness and prescriptions benefits that are built in by law now.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    The government is backing the subsidies being paid, which forces insurance companies to pay claims/benefits, as these people are now able to go to doctors SINCE they have insurance. When you force people to buy private insurance, backed by subsidies by the government, you have an increase in demand in the medical community....
    You cant just go to doctors...you can only go to doctors that still accept insurance as more and more doctors are opting out and only accepting cash (my preferred method.)
    http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/06/us...-lower-prices/

    Your second part is a debate, whether you believe in the income tax system or not, and if demand in the medical community should be forced by government tyranny or not.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    ax1 your beliefs on the big business, republicans, media all conspiring here with Obama on Obamacare?
    Well...not all big business is bad. There is no difference between republicans, democrats and Obama. Whether they are conspiring or not, Im not positive but most of them are bought, financed and lobbied by the same people and the media is venom.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Actually no, you are simply wrong about much of it.

    1. I pay half of what marketplace plan is for my family.

    2. I can keep my current plan.

    3. I can keep my doctors.

    In the marketplace you can choose an HMO, PPO, HSA plan, etc.....so all the bologna about being forced into certain doctors and not being able to keep you plan is bogus. If you are forced out of your plan its because your plan will cease to exist by the carrier, which happened all the time BEFORE the ACA and you would be migrated to another plan that either A. Is a QHF which qualifies for a subsidy, B. Is equivalent to what you have but have wellness and prescriptions benefits that are built in by law now.
    I am pleased that you have reduce costs, kept your current plan and kept your doctor.

    I do not believe your experience is or will be common place.

    I don't believe I am wrong about what I wrote, although it may not apply in your case.

    Were WERE told (1) 2500 savings, (2) anyone who wanted could keep their current plan, and (3) anyone who wanted to keep their current MD could do so. Those are not accurate statements. In many, many cases - it is far from the truth.

    I suppose we are still digging into that little Benghazi debacle; we should be hearing something definative REAL soon.

    May 13th, 2013: President Soetoro --

    "If, in fact, IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that is outrageous, and there is no place for it, and they have to be held fully accountable, because the IRS as an independent agency requires absolute integrity and people have to have confidence that they are applying the laws in a non-partisan way. You should feel that way regardless of party."

    "But I have got no patience with it, I will not tolerate it, and we will make sure that we find out exactly what happened on this,".

    I can't tell if that is the same "phony scandal" he later referred to -- it was probably just a mistake or the result of a video.
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    Case in point. This was a perfect Fox News spin (and I'm a republican).

    Local guy here received a letter saying his 533 plan is being cancelled. He paid $75/month. Was a low tier plan. They said as of Dec 31st this plan will not exist and we recommend you migrate into the new 1419p plan, which is $511/month. Person flips out. Fox news reports...look at what they are doing!!!!!!


    Now on to the real story. Person calls me. I ask for his income, family makeup. He's middle aged, doesn't make much (but over Medicaid threshold) and wanted to keep insurance. Scared he won't be able to afford it....no way he can afford $511/month. Wants to work...wants to pay...I run his number....long story shorty, he qualfies for $513/month subsidy and it pays for his new plan...fully.

    Fox news will report his premium increase by 500%...won't report the result. Now this happens with MSNBC and most media outlets now. 99.9% of is BS.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Fox news will report his premium increase by 500%...won't report the result. Now this happens with MSNBC and most media outlets now. 99.9% of is BS.
    OK - we agreed on something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I am pleased that you have reduce costs, kept your current plan and kept your doctor.

    I do not believe your experience is or will be common place.

    I don't believe I am wrong about what I wrote, although it may not apply in your case.

    Were WERE told (1) 2500 savings, (2) anyone who wanted could keep their current plan, and (3) anyone who wanted to keep their current MD could do so. Those are not accurate statements. In many, many cases - it is far from the truth.

    I suppose we are still digging into that little Benghazi debacle; we should be hearing something definative REAL soon.

    May 13th, 2013: President Soetoro --

    "If, in fact, IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that is outrageous, and there is no place for it, and they have to be held fully accountable, because the IRS as an independent agency requires absolute integrity and people have to have confidence that they are applying the laws in a non-partisan way. You should feel that way regardless of party."

    "But I have got no patience with it, I will not tolerate it, and we will make sure that we find out exactly what happened on this,".

    I can't tell if that is the same "phony scandal" he later referred to -- it was probably just a mistake or the result of a video.
    Actually I know its in all cases because I know the law and I know what the carriers are doing. You do not. I know the rate hikes groups are getting. I know the prices of migrating people into the marketplace. I know the costs. I know whats going on every day. You do not. You can continue to believe what the news is telling you, or try finding out for yourself form people living it.

    Every plan that meets QHF standards are grandfathered in until Dec 31st 2014. Your rates wont' change because the underwriting risks have been calculated on those plans.



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    where the heck is the money for government subsidies going to come from?
    BPS REP-DERMACRINE/ENDOSURGE....COMBUSTION/DCP 2.0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Actually I know its in all cases because I know the law and I know what the carriers are doing. You do not. I know the rate hikes groups are getting. I know the prices of migrating people into the marketplace. I know the costs. I know whats going on every day. You do not. You can continue to believe what the news is telling you, or try finding out for yourself form people living it.
    How do you feel about the massive drop in full time employment in relation to Obamacare? Last year it was 6 full time to 1 part timer, and now in 2013 its totally flip flopped to 1 full timer to 4 part timers in terms of hiring according to Forbes magazine?
    http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    where the heck is the money for government subsidies going to come from?
    Medical device taxes...taxes that were put on the rich several years ago. Lots of places.



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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    where the heck is the money for government subsidies going to come from?
    Originally? Not the government, because government doesnt have anything. They took it from us of course and give it back as if they are heroes.

    There I go again, my anti-income tax rant, lol
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    How do you feel about the massive drop in full time employment in relation to Obamacare? Last year it was 6 full time to 1 part timer, and now in 2013 its totally flip flopped to 1 full timer to 4 part timers in terms of hiring according to Forbes magazine?
    http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
    Has more to do with the economy than anything IMO. Employment mandate isn't in effect until 2015.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    Actually I know its in all cases because I know the law and I know what the carriers are doing. You do not. I know the rate hikes groups are getting. I know the prices of migrating people into the marketplace. I know the costs. I know whats going on every day. You do not. You can continue to believe what the news is telling you, or try finding out for yourself form people living it.

    Every plan that meets QHF standards are grandfathered in until Dec 31st 2014. Your rates wont' change because the underwriting risks have been calculated on those plans.
    I'll explain that to the people I personally know who are being impacted by massive rate increases because of Soetoro-care. They will, unquestionably, feel better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    I'll explain that to the people I personally know who are being impacted by massive rate increases because of Soetoro-care. They will, unquestionably, feel better.

    Then tell to find a competent agent who can actually fix their problem and could probably get them better coverage for less. But don't let the facts get in front of a good, dramatic story.

    ...unlike you, I talk to them everyday and tell them their options....and fix them.



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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    where the heck is the money for government subsidies going to come from?
    Its a little concept called income redistribution. Think of it as the Government playing Robinhood. They take from the rich (and middle class, too) to give to those who they want to have greater government dependence.

    Everybody loses.

    The end.
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    I am covered through my wife law firm and rate have gone up substantial from Obama plan
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

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