Impeach Gov. Andrew Cuomo 4 violating New Yorker's 2nd Amendment

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    restrict laws? or restrict freedoms?

    government restricts freedom every time a new law is passed.
    So your position (based on the statement above) is that as a country we SHOULD NOT be ruled/governed by law? That's your position?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post

    So your position (based on the statement above) is that as a country we SHOULD NOT be ruled/governed by law? That's your position?
    that is ridiculous.

    I thought you weren't in the business of interpreting...
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    semantics much?

    and thats what it says in the bill of rights isnt it? government SHALL NOT INFRINGE.
    and theres a difference in law and rights...again...

    law- dont kill people, its bad
    right- to own guns and protect myself

    law-dont steal, its bad
    right- to have/create a job to support myself and those that i so chose

    law-dont lie under oathe, its bad
    right- to express my thoughts and opinions openly without fear of consequence or punishment

    difference between law and right my friend. Government can write laws to protect its citizens and its citizens rights but it cannot pass legislation that removes my ability to exercise my right.
    Fair enough, good response. Although, one could argue that we have a "right" to choose what we can or cannot do with our bodies? Yet, ROE V WADE contradicts that argument entirely. So it's not exactly a black and white argument, when you examine the context.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    that is ridiculous.

    I thought you weren't in the business of interpreting...
    I'm not, thus why I framed it in the form of a question...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post

    I'm not, thus why I framed it in the form of a question...
    wether good or bad, to protect it's citizens, etc...

    more laws = less freedom.

    10 years ago you had the freedom to purchase ephedra...laws were passed, you now no longer have that freedom.

    noone ever said we should live in complete anarchy.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    wether good or bad, to protect it's citizens, etc...

    more laws = less freedom.

    10 years ago you had the freedom to purchase ephedra...laws were passed, you now no longer have that freedom.

    noone ever said we should live in complete anarchy.
    For some, laws equate to having more freedom, i.e. dissolution of slavery, a woman's right to choose etc.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    Fair enough, good response. Although, one could argue that we have a "right" to choose what we can or cannot do with our bodies? Yet, ROE V WADE contradicts that argument entirely. So it's not exactly a black and white argument, when you examine the context.
    you can argue that! and thats why i dont support roe vs wade entirely. We do have a right to our bodies, but where do you draw the line? a woman does have the right to do with her body as she sees fit but at the same time does that baby not deserve to live because her mother and father made a mistake or is a product of misfortune? laws about abortion are extremly gray and open for interpretation and sadly i dont think there is a right or good solution to the problem.

    and this was a good, healthy debate! i just wanna make sure that in any of my responses they were not ill mannered or attacking in anyway minus a few light-hearted name calling and smart ass responses. just wanted to clear that up for anybody that might have thought me or southpaw had sandy vag syndrome
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post

    For some, laws equate to having more freedom, i.e. dissolution of slavery, a woman's right to choose etc.
    which is why I said good or bad

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    you can argue that! and thats why i dont support roe vs wade entirely. We do have a right to our bodies, but where do you draw the line? a woman does have the right to do with her body as she sees fit but at the same time does that baby not deserve to live because her mother and father made a mistake or is a product of misfortune? laws about abortion are extremly gray and open for interpretation and sadly i dont think there is a right or good solution to the problem.

    and this was a good, healthy debate! i just wanna make sure that in any of my responses they were not ill mannered or attacking in anyway minus a few light-hearted name calling and smart ass responses. just wanted to clear that up for anybody that might have thought me or southpaw had sandy vag syndrome
    I respect your posts man. I know sometimes in here it can come across as quite the opposite. There's nothing wrong with a spirited debate. I never fire the first shot, it's only after someone fires at me, I take aim. Lol.

    But the example here, that one has freedom over themselves and their property, and these freedoms are inalienable, contradict the opposition to allowing someone the right to make decisions regarding their own bodies. Someone brought up the ephedra ban as an overreach of law, but in the same breath supports a law that would seek to restrict a person's ability to make choices regarding their own bodies. Can you see the contradiction? Now if you argue that the Constitution makes no mention of god, or religion and you support it, then how can one then turn around and say that they don't support a woman's right to choose based on your religious beliefs. It doesn't make sense. You see my overall point?

  10. Interestingly the constitution is outdated but the writings from the same time period and same authors are apparently infallible.

  11. He never said the ephedra ban was an overreach he said it restricted freedom as an example that all laws restrict freedom (because technically they do)

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Interestingly the constitution is outdated but the writings from the same time period and same authors are apparently infallible.
    No document should remain infallible and that's the point. I brought up those examples to show the mindset of one of the founders, at the time the Constitution was being drafted, nothing more, nothing less.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    I respect your posts man. I know sometimes in here it can come across as quite the opposite. There's nothing wrong with a spirited debate. I never fire the first shot, it's only after someone fires at me, I take aim. Lol.

    But the example here, that one has freedom over themselves and their property, and these freedoms are inalienable, contradict the opposition to allowing someone the right to make decisions regarding their own bodies. Someone brought up the ephedra ban as an over reach of law, but in the same breath supports a law that would seek to restrict a person's ability to make choices regarding their own bodies. Can you see the contradiction? Now if you argue that the Constitution makes no mention of god, or religion and you support it, then how can one then turn around and say that they don't support a woman's right to choose based on your religious beliefs. It doesn't make sense. You see my overall point?
    i do see your overall point thats why i try and keep my religious believes seperate from law and my political beliefs...i personally believe that we all have our free agency and that even though i might religiously agree with a given premise, i dont let that cloud my judgement as to whether or not that issue should be law or not
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    He never said the ephedra ban was an overreach he said it restricted freedom as an example that all laws restrict freedom (because technically they do)
    although by restricting one freedom it may open the door for many others....ie the case of slavery and womens suffrage specifically
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    He never said the ephedra ban was an overreach he said it restricted freedom as an example that all laws restrict freedom (because technically they do)
    Laws passed dissolving slavery...limitation of freedom?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    For some, laws equate to having more freedom, i.e. dissolution of slavery, a woman's right to choose etc.
    Laws (the newer ones) shouldnt be needed for those examples. Government's has a responsibility is to protect our "god given rights" (lol, or natural rights) that were already enforced (not sure if thats the right word there) in our Bill or Rights.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  17. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    i do see your overall point thats why i try and keep my religious believes seperate from law and my political beliefs...i personally believe that we all have our free agency and that even though i might religiously agree with a given premise, i dont let that cloud my judgement as to whether or not that issue should be law or not
    Awesome response.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post

    although by restricting one freedom it may open the door for many others....ie the case of slavery and womens suffrage specifically
    I agree completely. I don't think anyone is arguing that.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by MANotaur View Post
    although by restricting one freedom it may open the door for many others....ie the case of slavery and womens suffrage specifically
    I kind of disagree...You cant have a free society by having one "free" person suppress another. Any law created isnt to restrict anyone's freedom, its to enforce it.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  20. By the way, I do support the right for someone to own/purchase a firearm despite not being a fan of them myself. What I have no patience for is someone whose brain operates on another planet, thinking someone's out to get them, someone's coming to kidnap them in the middle of the night, someone who bases EVERYTHING off of conspiracies and uses poor sources to back up those claims. Other than that, I'm good. Lol.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I kind of disagree...You cant have a free society by having one "free" person suppress another. Any law created isnt to restrict anyone's freedom, its to enforce it.
    edit...Cant...lol that looked so bad when I first noticed my error.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  22. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I agree completely. I don't think anyone is arguing that.
    i think an old school,pissed off cotton farmer might...not that we have any here in the forum but just in case! cause you never know
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post

    Laws passed dissolving slavery...limitation of freedom?
    Technically, yes.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    By the way, I do support the right for someone to own/purchase a firearm despite not being a fan of them myself. What I have no patience for is someone whose brain operates on another planet, thinking someone's out to get them, someone's coming to kidnap them in the middle of the night, someone who bases EVERYTHING off of conspiracies and uses poor sources to back up those claims. Other than that, I'm good. Lol.
    so, ax?

    hahah kidding ax

  25. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Technically, yes.
    Lol. Dear god man.You sure you don't want to clarify that statement? Because as it stands, it looks awful. But if you're cool with it, so be it.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    so, ax?

    hahah kidding ax
    I know he wasnt talking about me...but Ill be right back the feds are sticking camera's up my plumbing again, just saw a floater in my toilet again.
    This message was paid for by the Russians

  27. I plan to when I get more time

  28. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    I know he wasnt talking about me...but Ill be right back the feds are sticking camera's up my plumbing again, just saw a floater in my toilet again.
    not the feds...that was me...sorry dude old habbits die hard
    Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    I'm usually crying when people take naked pictures of me. Fcuking childhood.

  29. Abolishing slavery restricted the freedoms of slaveowners by taking what was, at the time, their property.

    Now with that said, I completely agree that slavery was wrong and that abolishing it was in the beat interest of American citizens by allowing them to live with the same freedoms but it initially restricted one mans freedoms to allow another to have Freedom.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Abolishing slavery restricted the freedoms of slaveowners by taking what was, at the time, their property.

    Now with that said, I completely agree that slavery was wrong and that abolishing it was in the beat interest of American citizens by allowing them to live with the same freedoms but it initially restricted one mans freedoms to allow another to have Freedom.
    That interpretation is highly...Scalia-esque. Lol.
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