War On Iraq: Yay or Nay??
- 02-15-2003, 04:16 PM
War On Iraq: Yay or Nay??
With all the protests going on across the world, I just thought it'd be interesting to see how everyone feels about the upcoming war.
Personally, I'm on the fence. I'm not sure what to believe. On one hand the media keeps telling us Hussein is evil. Maybe he is. Maybe it's all propaganda. I don't know what to believe in this ****ed up, confusing world.
- 02-15-2003, 04:39 PM
here in nyc, we have a protest right outside my place @ union square. a dozen bus loads of people drove down into the city and marching right down 3rd avenue. im more for no violence...unless we have no choice. I couldnt imagine the nervous times a family must go through if one of theirs is battling over seas. Sage
- 02-15-2003, 04:39 PM
He is evil. So are all polititians though...
He has been a threat to world security before... but that was dealt with... I can't see what it can't be done again.
But what has he really done other than not comply with UN weapons regulations since the Gulf War? Not much to other countries.. although he has Cl2'ed the Kurdish people in Northern Iraq. I'm sure those people, deformed from the mustard gas would support the war.
Has he done anything to the US since the Gulf War? Not really. It dosn't seem like it's America's war to me. It should be for the opressed people in the country.
I don't really like to support war... because I know the effects of it. If there is a war I am sure thousands of innocent civilians will be killed... just like Afghanistan. Those civilians in Afghanistan had nothing to do with the terrorist bombings. Oh well they're Afghans they're not important.
I, like you, are on the ropes about war. I can't really support it nor can I support the other side completely.
Why dosn't the US just use propaghanda to convince the Iraqi people their dictator is not good, then kill him? (one casualty is better than thousands )
BTW... BBC World is a good program that dosn't have American propaganda in it. Newspapers (depends who they are owned by) can also be relatively unbiased.
02-15-2003, 06:32 PM
02-15-2003, 08:18 PM
The question of invasion is somewhat elusive. Should we do something to get rid of Saddam? Yes, definatly. Should it be an invasion??? Here in Singapore I hear alot of "Bush's War" from the people even though the SG government seems to support the US on this. I don't think Bush is a war monger nor is after Iraqi oil. I think he is using the tools at hand to deal with a long term "thorn in the side" that will only get worse. The US has two big hammers in this game. Economics, which hasn't worked, and military which has gotten the inspections up and running again and is making Saddam make some serious decisions.
It will be interesting to see what happens next.
02-16-2003, 04:57 PM
Read moreThe Cato InstituteTop 10 Reasons Not to "Do" Iraq
by Ivan Eland
Ivan Eland is director of defense policy studies at the Cato Institute.
Although President Bush has not formally decided to invade Iraq, the emotional chest pounding in the press by anonymous high-level civilian hawks in his administration has reached a crescendo. And while the hawks have made it seem unpatriotic to raise questions about such an invasion since Sept. 11, a careful analysis suggests that such a high-testosterone response should be avoided for 10 reasons:
1. High casualties may result at home or abroad. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld admits that Iraq has biological and chemical weapons. Faced with destruction of his regime (and possibly his own death), Hussein would have every incentive to use them against U.S. forces, Israel, oil fields, or even the U.S. homeland. If rag-tag al Qaeda terrorists can operate on U.S. soil undetected over a number of years, then more highly trained Iraqi intelligence agents might be able to smuggle in chemical or biological weapons (and may be already doing so). The U.S. military has been unenthusiastic about undertaking an invasion of Iraq because of fears of high casualties from urban fighting or from such Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.
2. Occupation of an Islamic country by the United States could be a recruiting poster for Islamic terrorists. We should remember the worldwide mobilization of Islamic radicals to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. An invasion of Iraq would play right into al Qaeda's hands. Terrorists hope for an excessive, intrusive response by their adversary so that they can recruit more supporters.
3. Invading and occupying Iraq would distract the U.S. government from the vital task of destroying an enemy that has actually attacked the U.S. homeland--al Qaeda. U.S. intelligence agencies apparently have no hard evidence that links Iraq to the Sept. 11 attacks. How is an unprovoked U.S. invasion of Iraq, without international support, is relevant to the legitimate war against America's terrorist adversaries.
4. The threat from Iraq is exaggerated. Other despotic countries have or are seeking weapons of mass destruction (Syria, Libya, North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia), have invaded their neighbors (Syria, Libya, and North Korea), and even used chemical weapons (Libya in Chad during the 1980s). Moreover, Iraq's military has been devastated by the Gulf War and a decade of sanctions. Americans should ask why the United States -- half a world away -- is more concerned about the Iraqi threat than are Iraq's neighbors.
5. The terrorists groups that Iraq supports do not focus their attacks on the United States. Such groups concentrate their attacks on targets in the Middle East.
6. Although unsatisfying, the U.S.-led containment policy has worked. If the United States could successfully contain a superpower (USSR) for more than 40 years until it fell from within, it can continue to contain the dictator of a small, poor nation until he dies or is overthrown.
7. A U.S. invasion of Iraq could destabilize or topple friendly governments in Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Enflamed Islamic populations could rise up against those regimes, which are closely aligned with the United States.
8. The United States might be isolated diplomatically or have to expend large amounts of diplomatic capital to gain support for the invasion. The aforementioned friendly Islamic nations -- many of whose territories would be needed to launch any invasion -- and the European allies are almost universally unenthusiastic about such a military operation. The United States had to offer Turkey about $5 billion in debt forgiveness and other financial inducements to obtain even reluctant Turkish support for a U.S. attack on Iraq.
9. At a time of economic sluggishness and of red ink for the U.S. government, an invasion and long-term occupation of Iraq could cost billions of dollars, bust the budget and throw the U.S. economy into a tailspin. The Gulf War Cost $80 billion (in 2002 dollars). Because the United States would probably be faced with a long occupation of Iraq to stabilize the country after the invasion, the cost is likely to be higher this time around. And unlike the Gulf War, no financial support from other nations can be expected to defray the costs.
10. The threat of war in the Middle East or a loss of production from actual combat could cause the world price of oil to skyrocket. Fighting in Iraq could reduce oil production there, as could any Iraqi attack on the Kuwaiti and Saudi oilfields using missiles armed with weapons of mass destruction.
After sober analysis, one must conclude that the civilian political appointees in the administration should stop the tub-thumping for war and listen to counsels of restraint by those in the military who would have to fight and die in such a war. Hussein's survival in the 11 years after the Gulf War--combined with his demonization by three U.S. administrations--has led many to overstate the threat that despot presents and understate the costs of scrapping the containment policy that has contained him effectively.
02-16-2003, 06:39 PM
Good post Pogue. I have always liked what the Cato Inst. has had to say. Though I don't agree with all 10 points its good brain fodder.
02-17-2003, 05:08 PM
bomb em to hell, i say.
02-17-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
Why dosn't the US just use propaghanda to convince the Iraqi people their dictator is not good, then kill him? (one casualty is better than thousands )
well, i spent 8 years in the service in the 80's...the navy...you can bank on the propaganda...got to see some cool "propaganda" happening back then...concerning Libia...
how do i feel about the potential war? well, we could take the french route..bury our head in the sand and hope the bad guys go away...let's face it, this is a ****ed up world now...sitting by and not dealing with festering factions has brought this all on...honestly, the only diplomacy that the islamic religeous fanatics understand is brute force. you can't reason with them....
i support a war 100%...everyone needs to get used to it..this is the things we're going to see for the rest of our lives....there will never be peace in the middle east....and they will never stop hating the free world...and that includes you fellas north of the border...
i really feel that once the action begins in iraq, the "generals" will then realize that sadaam isn't they're biggest threat anymore and the iraqi government will implode on its own...
i hope i'm right...now, back out side to dig out from this damn snow...al
02-17-2003, 06:09 PM
Support war? Think again...
02-18-2003, 07:14 AM
02-18-2003, 08:05 AM
That is funny but I am with you, I think W is one heck of a leader and a man.
Last edited by windwords7; 02-18-2003 at 08:27 AM.
02-18-2003, 08:26 AM
Definitely.Originally posted by windwords7
That is funny but I am with you, I think W is one heck of leader and man.
02-18-2003, 10:01 AM
That movie is hilarious... At first, I didn't even catch it... lol
02-18-2003, 07:09 PM
Jesus christ thats what CNN is, and all this **** that is run by the Rockafeller and DuPont etc families does, spread propaganda. Duh, Iraq has oil, duh we need that oil, duh saudi wont let us use their bases cuz the moment we take iraq's oil we arent gonna pay them **** for their oil, therefore they all go to the poorhouse. Its very easy to understand, CNN and all the news I use it to inform me, then i make my own observations based on what I see. What I see is these Iraqis are being starved and killed off by disease due to our sanctions, they dont give a **** if we bomb them they are innocent people being killed by disease and hunger, all because we want oil, how fair is that? Now all of a sudden, they are "linked to al-queda" so joe the sanitation man can say get up and be all patriotic. I hate the fact that we were attacked, but hell man you push people hard enough they are going to push back, and if Saddam uses chemical weapons on us, I dont ****ing blame the guy personally. 1st off I doubt he has any nukes or anything else, several inspectors have said that this country has nothing, and if were going after them cuz they have weapons then why are we not going after North Korea? North Korea has bombs and systems and possibly nukes and they do distribute them to the highest bidders. Politics is such a load of crap and one more thing, it's no coincidence that the UN hq is located on our soil, we own the UN and we are the only people who really have a say in what happens. Im sorry if my somewhat conspiratorial opinions have bothered anyone, but this is based on some research I have done and some non-biased articals I have read. I am by no stretch of the imagination a hippy or a sympathizer, I hate Saddam and I think Iraq can be helped by a leadership change, FOR THE RIGHT REASONS, not for personal gain. I am patriotic, im just a little more informed than the people who sit there watching CNN and reading TIME, which are published by companies who are owned by many of the same people (Rockafeller\DuPont etc) and have tons of propaganda (imo) in them. Please just respect my opinions on this, and maybe think about what im saying, because it does make perfect sense.
02-18-2003, 08:13 PM
There are MANY reasons, some political, some financial, and some moral, why this administration is seeking to use force against this pathetic lunatic called Saddam. It is not just one thing. Like it or not, Bush is man of morality, faith, and ethics and he is motivated by such things. All of us make mistakes as young men or women; to try to cast a shadow against ANY man because of a poor choice he made would mean that we ALL deserve to be treated like crap and looked at as hypocrites who can never change and can never contribute anything ever.
If you belive that bull-crap you might as well check out now. You know how ignorant that argument is? That is the most laughable statement any human can ever make. Everyone wants a little grace and mercy from the powers that be when they get caught but when called upon to provide it for a man who demonstrated with his life, over many years, that he has changed and his given back so much, we call for the stones and are the first to want to throw them. That's fine, throw away, Ill be first to line up for YOU because of your foolish mistakes in youth. (shakes his head, sighs)
Finally, this is why Saddam should be destroyed. Plain and simple, no questions asked (yes that is a child in its mothers arms gassed to death):
02-18-2003, 08:27 PM
Just think, this could have just as easily been you. None of us control where we are born. A child is never at fault! "Sadam Hussein methodicaly gassed 5000 Kurds as an 'experiment' in chemical readiness."
02-18-2003, 08:32 PM
02-18-2003, 08:35 PM
Wouldn't we be singing a different tune if this was one of our kids.....
02-18-2003, 08:39 PM
I'm sure these people deserved this! Let's gas them all! Let's let Saddam gas the us too! That's a great idea!!!
02-18-2003, 08:40 PM
Notice how the mothers hold there children even in death....truely selfless people.
02-18-2003, 08:43 PM
hes a cancerous boil that needs to be removed and korea wants some well we never really ended that war..so come get it..if we do go i will enlist the same way my father and uncle did during vietnam
02-18-2003, 08:43 PM
Lets go ahead and wait until Saddam cuts this loose on the US. Then well act after a half million people are more are dying a slow agonizing death.
02-18-2003, 08:47 PM
Can't wait until this is my family. Let's let Saddam be.........
02-18-2003, 09:24 PM
I say we should go after turkey for what they did to the kurds... it absolutely disgusts me.
02-18-2003, 09:32 PM
That may or may not be a viable option in the future. We have to choose our battles right now. Start with the biggest threat to the US and move on from there.
02-18-2003, 09:46 PM
ben franklin gotta love the man
"Pacifists have an amazing capacity for emphasizing the ideal and ignoring the real." Benjamin Franklin, 1776
i would say great post ww7 but there frieghtening..i remember maxim did a interveiw or profile i said say onsaddams sons.u think the fathers bad man u have not seen ****e
02-18-2003, 10:23 PM
It is scarry bro. Indeed, that is a nice quote.
02-19-2003, 08:41 AM
Saddam Hussein's Repression of the Iraqi People
UNSCR 688 (April 5, 1991) "condemns" Saddam Hussein's repression of the Iraqi civilian population -- "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security." UNSCR 688 also requires Saddam Hussein to end his repression of the Iraqi people and to allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to help those in need of assistance. Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated these provisions and has: expanded his violence against women and children; continued his horrific torture and execution of innocent Iraqis; continued to violate the basic human rights of the Iraqi people and has continued to control all sources of information (including killing more than 500 journalists and other opinion leaders in the past decade). Saddam Hussein has also harassed humanitarian aid workers; expanded his crimes against Muslims; he has withheld food from families that fail to offer their children to his regime; and he has continued to subject Iraqis to unfair imprisonment.
Refusal to Admit Human Rights Monitors
The UN Commission on Human Rights and the UN General Assembly issued a report that noted "with dismay" the lack of improvement in the situation of human rights in Iraq. The report strongly criticized the "systematic, widespread, and extremely grave violations of human rights" and of international humanitarian law by the Iraqi Government, which it stated resulted in "all-pervasive repression and oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror." The report called on the Iraqi Government to fulfill its obligations under international human rights treaties.
Saddam Hussein has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors and the establishment of independent human rights organizations. From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the UN Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq.
In September 2001 the Government expelled six UN humanitarian relief workers without providing any explanation.
Violence Against Women
Human rights organizations and opposition groups continued to receive reports of women who suffered from severe psychological trauma after being raped by Iraqi personnel while in custody.
Former Mukhabarat member Khalid Al-Janabi reported that a Mukhabarat unit, the Technical Operations Directorate, used rape and sexual assault in a systematic and institutionalized manner for political purposes. The unit reportedly also videotaped the rape of female relatives of suspected oppositionists and used the videotapes for blackmail purposes and to ensure their future cooperation.
In June 2000, a former Iraqi general reportedly received a videotape of security forces raping a female family member. He subsequently received a telephone call from an intelligence agent who stated that another female relative was being held and warned him to stop speaking out against the Iraqi Government.
Iraqi security forces allegedly raped women who were captured during the Anfal Campaign and during the occupation of Kuwait.
Amnesty International reported that, in October 2000, the Iraqi Government executed dozens of women accused of prostitution.
In May, the Iraqi Government reportedly tortured to death the mother of three Iraqi defectors for her children's opposition activities.
Iraqi security agents reportedly decapitated numerous women and men in front of their family members. According to Amnesty International, the victims' heads were displayed in front of their homes for several days.
Iraqi security services routinely and systematically torture detainees. According to former prisoners, torture techniques included branding, electric shocks administered to the genitals and other areas, beating, pulling out of fingernails, burning with hot irons and blowtorches, suspension from rotating ceiling fans, dripping acid on the skin, rape, breaking of limbs, denial of food and water, extended solitary confinement in dark and extremely small compartments, and threats to rape or otherwise harm family members and relatives. Evidence of such torture often was apparent when security forces returned the mutilated bodies of torture victims to their families.
According to a report received by the UN Special Rapporteur in 1998, hundreds of Kurds and other detainees have been held without charge for close to two decades in extremely harsh conditions, and many of them have been used as subjects in Iraq's illegal experimental chemical and biological weapons programs.
In 2000, the authorities reportedly introduced tongue amputation as a punishment for persons who criticize Saddam Hussein or his family, and on July 17, government authorities reportedly amputated the tongue of a person who allegedly criticized Saddam Hussein. Authorities reportedly performed the amputation in front of a large crowd. Similar tongue amputations also reportedly occurred.
Refugees fleeing to Europe often reported instances of torture to receiving governments, and displayed scars and mutilations to substantiate their claims.
In August 2001 Amnesty International released a report entitled Iraq -- Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners, which detailed the systematic and routine use of torture against suspected political opponents and, occasionally, other prisoners. Amnesty International also reports "Detainees have also been threatened with bringing in a female relative, especially the wife or the mother, and raping her in front of the detainee. Some of these threats have been carried out."
Saad Keis Naoman, an Iraqi soccer player who defected to Europe, reported that he and his teammates were beaten and humiliated at the order of Uday Saddam Hussein for poor performances. He was flogged until his back was bloody, forcing him to sleep on his stomach in the tiny cell in Al-Radwaniya prison.
Executions and Repression of Political Opposition
Former UN Human Rights Special Rapporteur Max Van der Stoel's report in April 1998 stated that Iraq had executed at least 1,500 people during the previous year for political reasons.
The government continues to execute summarily alleged political opponents and leaders in the Shi'a religious community. Reports suggest that persons were executed merely because of their association with an opposition group or as part of a continuing effort to reduce prison populations.
In February 2001, the Government reportedly executed 37 political detainees for opposition activity.
In June 2001, security forces killed a Shi'a cleric, Hussein Bahar al-Uloom, for refusing to appear on television to congratulate Qusay Saddam Hussein for his election to a Ba'th Party position. Such killings continue an apparent government policy of eliminating prominent Shi'a clerics who are suspected of disloyalty to the government. In 1998 and 1999, the Government killed a number of leading Shi'a clerics, prompting the former Special Rapporteur in 1999 to express his concern to the government that the killings might be part of a systematic attack by government officials on the independent leadership of the Shi'a Muslim community. The government did not respond to the Special Rapporteur's letter.
There are persistent reports that families are made to pay for the cost of executions.
Saddam Hussein destroyed the southern Iraqi town of Albu 'Aysh sometime between September 1998 and December 1999.
Iraq has conducted a systematic "Arabization" campaign of ethnic cleansing designed to harass and expel ethnic Kurds and Turkmen from government-controlled areas. Non-Arab citizens are forced to change their ethnicity or their identity documents and adopt Arab names, or they are deprived of their homes, property and food-ration cards, and expelled.
Saddam Hussein's Abuse of Children
Saddam Hussein has held 3-week training courses in weapons use, hand-to-hand fighting, rappelling from helicopters, and infantry tactics for children between 10 and 15 years of age. Camps for these "Saddam Cubs" operated throughout the country. Senior military officers who supervised the courses noted that the children held up under the "physical and psychological strain" of training that lasted for as long as 14 hours each day. Sources in the opposition report that the army found it difficult to recruit enough children to fill all of the vacancies in the program. Families reportedly were threatened with the loss of their food ration cards if they refused to enroll their children in the course. The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq reported in October 1999 that authorities were denying food ration cards to families that failed to send their young sons to Saddam Cubs compulsory weapons-training camps. Similarly, authorities reportedly withheld school examination results to students unless they registered in the Fedayeen Saddam organization.
Iraq often announces food ration cuts for the general population, blaming US or UK actions. Among the most controversial have been cuts in baby milk rations. Iraq has blamed the shortages on US and UK contract rejections, although the UN has approved all baby milk contracts submitted.
Child labor persists and there are instances of forced labor.
There are widespread reports that food and medicine that could have been made available to the general public, including children, have been stockpiled in warehouses or diverted for the personal use of some government officials.
Amnesty International reported that Iraq has the world's worst record for numbers of persons who have disappeared or remain unaccounted for.
In 1999, the UN Special Rapporteur stated that Iraq remains the country with the highest number of disappearances known to the UN: over 16,000.
Basic Freedoms: Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press, Freedom of Information
In practice, Saddam Hussein does not permit freedom of speech or of the press, and does not tolerate political dissent in areas under its control. In November 2000, the UN General Assembly criticized Saddam Hussein's "suppression of freedom of thought, expression, information, association, and assembly." The Special Rapporteur stated in October 1999 that citizens lived "in a climate of fear," in which whatever they said or did, particularly in the area of politics, involved "the risk of arrest and interrogation by the police or military intelligence." He noted that "the mere suggestion that someone is not a supporter of the President carries the prospect of the death penalty."
In June 2001, the Human Rights Alliance reported that Saddam Hussein had killed more than 500 journalists and other intellectuals in the past decade.
Saddam Hussein frequently infringes on citizens' constitutional right to privacy. Saddam routinely ignores constitutional provisions designed to protect the confidentiality of mail, telegraphic correspondence, and telephone conversations. Iraq periodically jams news broadcasts from outside the country, including those of opposition groups. The security services and the Ba'th Party maintain pervasive networks of informers to deter dissident activity and instill fear in the public.
Foreign journalists must work from offices located within the Iraqi ministry building and are accompanied everywhere they go by ministry officers, who reportedly restrict their movements and make it impossible for them to interact freely with citizens.
The Iraqi Government, the Ba'th Party, or persons close to Saddam Hussein own all print and broadcast media, and operate them as propaganda outlets. They generally do not report opposing points of view that are expressed either domestically or abroad.
In September 1999, Hashem Hasan, a journalist and Baghdad University professor, was arrested after declining an appointment as editor of one of Uday Hussein's publications. The Paris-based Reporters Sans Frontieres (RSF) sent a letter of appeal to Uday Hussein; however, Hassan's fate and whereabouts remained unknown at year's end.
Saddam Hussein regularly jams foreign news broadcasts. Satellite dishes, modems, and fax machines are banned, although some restrictions reportedly were lifted in 1999.
In government-operated Internet cafes, users only are permitted to view web sites provided by the Ministry of Culture and Information.
In 1999, Uday Hussein reportedly dismissed hundreds of members of the Iraqi Union of Journalists for not praising Saddam Hussein and the Government sufficiently.
Withholding of Food
Relatives who do not report deserters may lose their ration cards for purchasing government-controlled food supplies, be evicted from their residences, or face the arrest of other family members. The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq reported in October and December 1999 that authorities denied food ration cards to families that failed to send their young sons to the "Saddam's Cubs" compulsory weapons training camps.
Crimes Against Muslims
The Government consistently politicizes and interferes with religious pilgrimages, both of Iraqi Muslims who wish to make the Hajj to Mecca and Medina and of Iraqi and non-Iraqi Muslim pilgrims who travel to holy sites within the country. For example, in 1998 the UN Sanctions Committee offered to disburse vouchers for travel and expenses to pilgrims making the Hajj; however, the Government rejected this offer. In 1999 the Sanctions Committee offered to disburse funds to cover Hajj-related expenses via a neutral third party; the Government again rejected the offer. Following the December 1999 passage of UN Security Council Resolution 1284, the Sanctions Committee again sought to devise a protocol to facilitate the payment for individuals making the journey. The Sanctions Committee proposed to issue $250 in cash and $1,750 in travelers checks to each individual pilgrim to be distributed at the U.N. office in Baghdad in the presence of both U.N. and Iraqi officials. The Government again declined and, consequently, no Iraqi pilgrims were able to take advantage of the available funds or, in 2000, of the permitted flights. The Government continued to insist that these funds would be accepted only if they were paid in cash to the government-controlled central bank, not to the Hajj pilgrims.
More than 95 percent of the population of Iraq are Muslim. The (predominantly Arab) Shi'a Muslims constitute a 60 to 65 percent majority:
The Iraqi government has for decades conducted a brutal campaign of murder, summary execution, and protracted arbitrary arrest against the religious leaders and followers of the majority Shi'a Muslim population. Despite nominal legal protection of religious equality, the Government has repressed severely the Shi'a clergy and those who follow the Shi'a faith.
Forces from the Mukhabarat, General Security (Amn Al-Amm), the Military Bureau, Saddam's Commandos (Fedayeen Saddam), and the Ba'th Party have killed senior Shi'a clerics, desecrated Shi'a mosques and holy sites, and interfered with Shi'a religious education. Security agents reportedly are stationed at all the major Shi'a mosques and shrines, where they search, harass, and arbitrarily arrest worshipers.
The following government restrictions on religious rights remained in effect during 2001: restrictions and outright bans on communal Friday prayer by Shi'a Muslims; restrictions on the loaning of books by Shi'a mosque libraries; a ban on the broadcast of Shi'a programs on government-controlled radio or television; a ban on the publication of Shi'a books, including prayer books and guides; a ban on funeral processions other than those organized by the Government; a ban on other Shi'a funeral observances such as gatherings for Koran reading; and the prohibition of certain processions and public meetings that commemorate Shi'a holy days. Shi'a groups report that they captured documents from the security services during the 1991 uprising that listed thousands of forbidden Shi'a religious writings.
In June 1999, several Shi'a opposition groups reported that the Government instituted a program in the predominantly Shi'a districts of Baghdad that used food ration cards to restrict where individuals could pray. The ration cards, part of the UN oil-for-food program, reportedly are checked when the bearer enters a mosque and are printed with a notice of severe penalties for those who attempt to pray at an unauthorized location.
02-19-2003, 08:42 AM
Saddam Hussein's Support for International Terrorism
Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism. UNSCR 687 prohibits Saddam Hussein from committing or supporting terrorism, or allowing terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Saddam continues to violate these UNSCR provisions.
In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals.
Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians.
Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.
Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq.
In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a "martyr" and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."
Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.
02-19-2003, 08:42 AM
Saddam Hussein's Refusal to Account for Gulf War Prisoners
UNSCRs 686, 687 and others require Saddam Hussein to release immediately any Gulf War prisoners and to cooperate in accounting for missing and dead Kuwaitis and others from the Gulf War. Saddam has continued to violate these resolutions.
Saddam Hussein has failed to return, or account for, a large number of Kuwaiti citizens and citizens of other countries who were detained during the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait and continues to refuse to cooperate with the Tripartite Commission to resolve the cases.
Of 609 cases of missing Gulf War POWs/MIAs representing 14 nationalities - including one American pilot - under review by the Tripartite Commission on Gulf War Missing, only 4 have been resolved. Because of continued Iraqi obfuscation and concealment, very few cases have been resolved since the Gulf War. Saddam Hussein denies having any knowledge of the others and claims that any relevant records were lost in the aftermath of the Gulf War.
In a December 2001 report to the UN Security Council, the UN Secretary-General criticized the Iraqi Government's refusal to cooperate with the U.N. on the issue of the missing POWs/MIAs citizens. Iran reports that the Iraqi Government still has not accounted for 5,000 Iranian POW's missing since the Iran-Iraq War.
"Secretary General reiterates little progress on the issue of repatriation or return of all Kuwaiti and third country nationals or their remains, as Iraq refused to cooperate with the Tripartite Commission."
In August 2001, Amnesty International reported that Saddam Hussein has the world's worst record for numbers of persons who have disappeared and remain unaccounted for.
The Iraqi Government continued to ignore the more than 16,000 cases conveyed to it in 1994 and 1995 by the UN, as well as requests from the Governments of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to account for the whereabouts of those who had disappeared during Iraq's 1990-91 occupation of Kuwait, and from Iran regarding the whereabouts of prisoners of war that Iraq captured in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq War.
"Security Council regrets that no progress made on return of Kuwaiti national archives, reiterate need for Iraq to immediately fulfill all requirements under the relevant resolutions, including repatriation or return of all Kuwaiti and third country nationals or their remains."
02-19-2003, 08:42 AM
Saddam Hussein's Refusal to Return Stolen Property
Iraq destroyed much stolen property before it could be returned, and Kuwait claims that large quantities of equipment remain unaccounted for:
The UN and Kuwait say Iraq has not returned extensive Kuwaiti state archives and museum pieces, as well as military equipment, including eight Mirage F-1 aircraft, 245 Russian-made fighting vehicles, 90 M113 armored personnel carriers, one Hawk battery, 3,750 Tow and anti-tank missiles, and 675 Russian-made surface-to-air missile batteries.
02-19-2003, 08:42 AM
Saddam Hussein's Efforts to Circumvent Economic Sanctions
Saddam Hussein has illegally imported hundreds of millions of dollars in goods in violation of economic sanctions and outside of the UN's Oil-for-Food program. For example, Iraq has imported fiber optic communications systems that support the Iraqi military.
Iraq has diverted dual-use items obtained under the Oil for Food program for military purposes. For example, Iraq diverted UN approved trucks from humanitarian relief purposes to military purposes, and has used construction equipment to help rebuild WMD-affiliated facilities.
The Iraqi regime illicitly exports hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil each day in flagrant violation of UNSCRs and blatant disregard for the humanitarian well-being of the Iraqi people. In so doing, it has deprived the Iraqi people of billions of dollars in food, medicine, and other humanitarian assistance that would have been provided if the regime had exported the oil under the UN Oil-for-Food program. Instead, Saddam Hussein has used these billions to fund his WMD programs, pay off his security apparatus, and supply himself and his supporters with luxury items and other goods.
In January 2002, President Bush reported to Congress that "as most recently stated in a November 19 UN report, the government of Iraq is not committed to using funds available through the Oil for Food program to improve the health and welfare of the Iraqi people ... Iraq's contracting delays, cuts in food, medicine, educational and other humanitarian sector allocations, government attempts to impede or shut down humanitarian NGO operations in northern Iraq, and Baghdad's delays in the issuance of visas for UN personnel demonstrate that the Iraqi regime is trying to undermine the effectiveness of the program."
Saddam Hussein spends smuggled oil wealth on his lavish palaces and inner circle, rather than on the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people.
Saddam Hussein has used water pumps, piping, and other supplies that could have been used to repair urban sewer and water systems in order to construct moats and canals at his palaces.
02-19-2003, 08:46 AM
02-19-2003, 08:55 AM
Yeah, let's let him be. We definatley shouldn't go to war with such a wonderful, peaceloving leader
02-20-2003, 06:47 PM
Yeah WW I agree, he's not THAT bad of a guy...Originally posted by windwords7
Yeah, let's let him be. We definatley shouldn't go to war with such a wonderful, peaceloving leader
WW that pic of the guy that was covered in Small Pox boils was truly disturbing. I support this oncoming war 100%, my brother is on his way over there right now. BUT, what most people dont know is this:
1. We have had Special Forces operatives in Iraq for probly the past 3 months or so.
2. These "operatives" have been broadcasting propoganda over Iraq's TV and radio stations.
3. Targets have been identified, coordinates logged and fed to Cruise Missiles that will destroy them.
4. The US's military forces ARE capable of carrying out this WHOLE OPERATION by ourselves, without any help from other UN or NATO nations.
5. France is not even a member of NATO, so they are lucky we are actually listenting to their opinion.
6. No, more inspectors WONT get the job done!
7. The last Gulf War lasted about 100 hours on the ground, and this was 10 years ago....with all the technological advances we have had (many of which are Top Secret) how long do you think the war will last now??
9. It's a war, people die (some of which will be ours), duh
10. "I saw Blackhawk Down, we got our asses kicked"....analyze that statement:
--- there was 6 of us (Spec Ops) there that were rescued, they were wounded, fine. 3-4 died I believe (my numbers might be off)
---How many Somolians died??: 1200 (thereabouts)
hmmm...as I see it the kill ratio was about 300-400 (of them) to 1 (of us)
Us? Asses kicked?...I think not
Keep in mind, that was only a handful of our "Special Forces Operatives." Imagine what we can do if we "unleash the hounds" so-to-speak.
What I have said is just the tip of the iceberg, there is a lot more going on behind the scenes then any of us know.
BTW, I voted "yes"
02-22-2003, 02:59 PM
I'm sick and tired of hearing all the bleading heart liberals criticize George W. Bush. The time to move against Iraq is NOW!
02-23-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Rictor33
I hate the fact that we were attacked, but hell man you push people hard enough they are going to push back, and if Saddam uses chemical weapons on us, I dont ****ing blame the guy personally. 1st off I doubt he has any nukes or anything else, several inspectors have said that this country has nothing,
this person truly saddens me...first off, he's from NYC...wonder if the firemen, police, and port auth survivors would be happy with his thoughts? it's amazing how 9/11 is starting to be easily forgotten...
you wouldn't blame him if he ****ed our guys up?!?!
you ever give any time to your country? i gave 8 ****in years of my life to this country and wouldn't change that one bit...i have an uncle who gave two tours in 'nam, and my brother is over there right now, *******....i'd love to come to NYC and stick my ****in boot up your ass...and i live rather close to the city, so don't think i'm talkin out my ass...you ****in' FRENCH? why not pack your bags and move out of the country...maybe you could become a human shield over in baghdad, good idea, eh? but that means you'd have to give up the good life your enjoying here from this terrible country you live in...how about sending your tax return over to iraq? how bad do you really feel about us beatin' up on saddaam?
and how about your inspectors? yeah that Scott Ritter is a ****in credible chap, eh? all the news media had him on till he got caught trying to get with a knowingly underage girl off the internet....atleast we don't have to listen to his anti-american banter any more...
to the bros on this forum, i do apologize for this outburst, i normally don't post, but this clown really pissed me off...i truly hope our lads don't get gassed, especially my brother...and then to hear what this ******* has to say about that, un****in believable...
good nite, al
03-07-2003, 08:55 AM
03-07-2003, 11:07 AM
bigal...thanks for this...and lg...no doubt that more is going on than we will know. what frosts me is these folks accuse us of being the aggressor...apparently we should just sit back and continue to let these half wits keep attacking us...lessee...us embassies, warships, barracks...and we never replied...seems to me we've been very restrained. like benz...time's up for saddam.
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