War On Iraq: Yay or Nay??
- 10-20-2008, 10:04 AM
- 10-24-2008, 06:57 PM
I say yay...........JOB SECURITY
- 10-25-2008, 12:50 AM
10-25-2008, 01:16 AM
You still have 24 million people in the country that have been ravaged by 30 years of Saddam's tyranny, and years of war, both prior to and following the US invasion. Things are improving. The fact that we're there, for whatever reason, means that we owe these people a peaceful existence where they can better their lives.
Turning over Iraq before their infrastructure, army and police force are ready is condemning those 24 million people to whatever existence Iran or the strongest warlord in Iraq has in store for them. Nobody wants to be there forever, but we have invested 5 years and thousands of lives there....we need to finish the job.
11-21-2008, 10:40 AM
I won't get into whether or not we should be there 'cause I don't give a sh*t. I go where my Marines go, simple as that. I will say however, that I had Iraqi's thank me when I was there in 2003 and I had Iraqi's thank me when I was there in 2006 and 2007. In fact, I had Iraqi's pull cross necklaces out from under their shirts and tell me that they had to live in fear and hide/practice their religion in secret for fear of persecution and death. Now they can be christians openly. I do think that speaks volumes. Simple fact is, Al Queda is losing ground and can not sustain in Iraq. However, if we leave them un prepared we are setting them up for failure. Iraq is a 3rd world nation and as so is decade behind the modern world. Wich means it's going to be a hard road to catch up. In their prior state that would never happen. One of the tools dictators use to assume/maintain power over the people is to oppress, keep uneducated, and terrorize the populace (but the dictators friends, allies, and power bases all seem to be the ones whom are educated and affluent). This has been evident in history over and over again with Hitler, Mousilinni, Stalin, Kim Il etc etc.
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12-02-2008, 07:44 AM
Does anyone else think its odd that people are voting on this poll 5 years after the fact......
12-02-2008, 06:11 PM
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12-02-2008, 06:23 PM
Bush regrets Iraqi WMD failure
Outgoing US President George Bush has said his biggest regret is the failure of intelligence over Iraqi weapons.
In a wide-ranging TV interview, he declined to say whether he would have decided to invade Iraq if he had known it had no weapons of mass destruction.
12-02-2008, 10:00 PM
Yep, you invaded Iraq and destroyed it same as Afghanistan which you left to us Canadians to police.
12-02-2008, 10:09 PM
12-04-2008, 12:33 AM
Yeah so you guys should stop blaming Canada lol
12-04-2008, 08:01 AM
01-01-2009, 03:28 PM
01-15-2009, 12:28 AM
01-16-2009, 07:49 PM
I disagree with some of his decisions, but people who have the audacity to say he's the worst president ever have no sense of scope or US history.
01-17-2009, 12:37 AM
01-25-2009, 04:36 PM
Wow, this is old... I'm guessing more were in favor of invading Iraq when this thread started.
01-28-2009, 09:51 PM
02-08-2009, 07:17 PM
Bush's biggest regret is that he himself lacks intelligence. I was shocked you guys re-elected him. How much pain must one endure? Your politics is like Religion....you have blind Faith in your leaders based on their party.
02-08-2009, 09:16 PM
First off there is NO WAR. This was a military action. America has not been in a war since WW2. In a war corporations and banks cannot profit like they can in a military action. We would not have more mercenaries than soldiers in Iraq if this was a war. It does lose some of the luster, that we are there for the people, knowing that we are always at war in some part of the world and that many, many large companies profit from such actions and the sacrifices of our brave soldiers.
I do wish this had been a War. I believe if it had things would have been very different right now. Many times when greed comes into play. People don't always do what is right for the masses.
02-08-2009, 11:29 PM
Vote for change......like a 900 billion dollar pork bill and 30,000 more Soldiers to Afghanistan. "If this 900 billion dollar pork bill does not pass, we may never get out of this economic situation." WTF, this guy is an idiot.
03-16-2009, 03:19 AM
03-16-2009, 03:44 AM
Dahr Jamail is an unembedded journalist in Iraq and author of Beyond the Green Zone: Dispatches from an Unembedded Journalist in Occupied Iraq and Military Resisters: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. His personal website is www.dahrjamailiraq.com He has one of the most unique perspectives I have read.
Here he does an interview where he discusses the millions of Iraqi refugees who claim they will never return, the rising discontent among members of Sunni “Awakening” groups, the incredibly high potential for violence in a politically unstable country with armed militias and 50% unemployment : http://awr.dissentradio.com/09_02_12_jamail.mp3
04-11-2009, 11:02 PM
Iraq was a farce the in 1991. At least there was no loss of American lives on the same scale as today.
The war was a farce, we wanted Saddam to move into Kuwait, and Kuwait was illegally drilling in Iraqi soil. After we supported Iraq and Iranian forces to kill each other, while giving him plenty of chemical arms.
Our soldier's health problems were hidden from the public. I know someone personally who came back heavily affected and mentally, sterile, schizophrenic, and developed cancer. The soldier's got the shaft and were used as cannon fodder.
After the war Saddam basically followed our demands, then we imposed UN Sanctions that killed an estimated 500,000 children. We starved the country to death, filled it with depleted uranium. Stole their natural resources and ruined their civil infrastructure. Oh yeah and let's not forget the Oil for Food blunder.
Hussein was a Tyrant, but he was not a problem. We have supported a lot worse people than him before.
Finally, after suffering through 9/11, Bush used the pain and fear of American's to start a war that was a complete lie. No WMD's, no al-queda, no connection to terrorism and all of this was known before the war. The war was planned far before 9/11. We have the finest intelligence, and military in the world and you expect them to think they had WMD's? Then we say oops and keep our troops there dying.
No soldier's life is worth anything in Iraq. Defending Freedom? What a load of ****. That is far from true. If that were remotely true we wouldn't have destroyed our own bill or rights, and started spying on the Citizens. What constitution are they swearing to defend? Only the 3rd amendment has been left untouched.
Fighting terrorism? Uh no, the people fighting our troops who want nothing more than the United States to quit occupying their country and stealing their resources. The actual terrorist who are there, have gone there for the sake of killing Americans.
This patriotic movement behind the Iraq war is just a technique to force people to be Patriots or traitors.
Yet the US public ate it up. The ignorant conservatives ate the bull**** right up. The a clear fraudulent election keeps Dictator Bush in office.
who lost- United States and her Citizens
10000+ Permanently wounded/disfigured
1000000 civilians dead
God knows how many BILLIONS of dollars of debt we have now.
2700 cases of female sexual assaults in our military in Iraq
Our national defense
HALF of our soldiers are suffering from mental disease and use Psychemeds,
10% suicide rate among Servicemen
Taxpayers-they got taken to the cleaners
Winners of the War:
The International Banks
Britain-(for staying away from the hot spots and pretending to figth)
Interceptor body armor for denying dragon skin to soldiers!
Islamic Terrorists-they have even more propaganda
Iran-Can rally support for themselves in the face of a US invasion now.
How can Bush, The NeoCons and the Zionist sleep at night? So many people from both sides are dead. Local Iraqis for not wanting American Occupation and fighting for their nation, and US servicemen for being dragged into a war they shouldn't be fighting and Civilians who already suffer 10 years of Sanctions only to be punished with a devastating war.
Oh yeah and a handful of Brits.
The war is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
The war is ILLEGAL
The war is UN AMERICAN.
04-12-2009, 01:05 AM
04-12-2009, 10:51 PM
nopeace, you said it best.
Anyone that still supports this war has been brainwashed by the dumb ass "Republicans" in office. I put "Republicans" in quotes because the majority of them in office aren't real Republicans, just mindless drones who love to instill fear into people so the companies that support their re-election campaigns make more money and donate more to the piece of **** politicians they support to get their terrible policies passed.
04-13-2009, 12:00 AM
You whine about innocent Iraqi citizens dying while you ignore the tyrannical madman who committed wholesale ethnic cleansing using WMDs on his own people. There also was evidence of WMDs being found in Iraq. It was in a congressional report and was reported, though swept under the rug by most liberal media outlets.
Unconstitutional? What's unconstitutional about the Iraq War? You may as well whine about Kennedy and LBJ and the liberals while you're at it. Ever heard of the Vietnam Conflict? Nixon ended that. I think you'd have a much better argument saying that the Fed, Social Security, Income Taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, TARP, TALF, welfare or any other social program is unconstitutional, but really, a president acting in what he perceives is a threat to the interests of the nation with consent from congress is not unconstitutional, given prior precedents. Try reading the constitution and federalist papers if you want to really know what the document means.
Illegal? Congress authorized it. The legislative branch. What's freaking illegal about going to war, even if its undeclared? Are you talking about UN law or international law or some other stupid hippy BS?
Unamerican? Going to war is unamerican? America has a long history proactively initiating conflicts abroad in the name of US interest. What specifically is unamerican about this case?
Get off your high horse about "just war" and UN multi-nationalist action bullshat. Obama won. You have a radical liberal in office to show you just how badly our country can really be screwed up.
04-13-2009, 05:47 AM
04-13-2009, 11:54 AM
Here's the WMD link. There's an embedded link to a congressional report within the article. Like I said though, this was pretty much swept under the rug. I also have several friends who said similar things about WMDs they saw firsthand in 2003. DAdams has posted photos from when he was in Iraq of pictures of WMDs he saw there.
Just a couple points you brought up that I'd like to address:
I agree with you that citizens have an obligation to continually check up on their government, but its pretty masturbatory to badmouth a war that is getting wound down in the next year.Okay then, just let this trustworthy Gov. continue to rule with dignity and truth in order to preserve our Republic. yah sure...
Hundreds. Everything from the first and second barbary wars, to the Spanish American war, to the Mexican American war.How many proactive engagements?
Actually, Vietnam was ramped up considerably under Kennedy, and then exponentially under his vice president after his death. I can't say all bad things about Kennedy as I like his low taxes and conservative streak.Kennedy was a decent President and the last one we ever had. He began the withdrawal from Vietnam, intended to abolish the CIA and return the US to a gold standard instead of a foreign bank like we have right now but he was shot.
This is a legal fallacy. UN law does not apply to the United States Government. The UN is nowhere in the constitution. We choose to acknowledge the UN. The only law that restrains the US government is US law and the Constitution.International Law makes it illegal. It did not receive approval of the UN Security Council. No, there was no Congressional declaration of a state of war between the two countries. Some argue this is a technicality and others say it has meaning.
I agree that war should have been declared, but as I said before prior precedent makes it unnecessary.
I don't see this as any less American than sending forces to the Bay of Pigs to fight Castro, or in taking out Hitler, another ruthless tyrant. The moral imperative against Saddam is there, just as it is against North Korea. The fact that we execute that impertative doesn't make us wrong, unless it goes against the worldwide role that America believes it should occupy.It is Un-American for a President to lie to the public and declare war under a false cause, WMD's was just a crock of ****. We've been in Iraq for years, and we weren't keeping track of what was going on there? C'mon! Our vastly sophisticated intelligence agency couldn't find anything after saying they were sure about it? How is this war "defending freedom"?
It's UnAmerican to sell out your soldiers for Corporate interests. Do you like Halliburton stock rising as our Casualty is rising? **** that. Is that Patriotism? How can our Vice President walk around promoting a war so his company can make a buck? FcuK the Chickenhawks who declared this war, Cheney never set foot in 'Nam and got 5 differments to save his ass. He has no right to start wars seeing as how he never had the balls to fight for his own country after wearing the uniform and swearing an oath.
War is not un-American. We have been defined by our conflicts. The revolutionary war, civil war, WWI, WWII Korea.
Preemptive war can be justified if the threat is imminent and clearly a danger. N.K. is an example of this-again
I don't agree that Bush sent Americans to fight the war with the express purpose of giving a payoff to Cheney's former company. Right or wrong, the war in the end has achieved a free Iraq at this point...whether it stays free or not will depend on the Iraqi people.
I agree with everything you said there, except I think Obama is 10 times worse than Bush.War is not a tool for profit by the Elites of this Nation. I do not like Obama at all, by all means I consider him WORSE if anything than Bush. Obama is really screwing our Country up, he is a bold face liar and uses his eloquent speeches to weasel his way out. His celebrity and significance in the eyes of the US as the First Black President has blinded everyone, that he is no different than Bush.
04-13-2009, 04:34 PM
From what I believe and see in the actions of our Government, it wouldn't have mattered if McCain won or Obama won. McCain was super-pro-bomb everyone and Obama pretended to be a different candidate, then back stabbed everyone who was hoping he was gonna restore the constitution and "bring up the little guys". They are two sides of the same coin, who serve outside interest not the US Citizens. (this could get a bit conspiracy theory-ish)
The Candidates only have differentiation on domestic issues, but the global goals seem to be the same. Only 3rd party candidates made any sense and they were screwed over by the media who pretended they didn't exist, they were forced out of the debates, Ron Paul(R) was not even allowed in the RNC or in the debates after he was voted numerous times to have won.
My biggest concern is our Constitution and Civil Liberties, and the Our National Sovereignty. Piece by piece we are losing our freedom. I suggest you check out my thread about the MIAC report.
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
04-13-2009, 11:20 PM
04-14-2009, 01:59 PM
04-14-2009, 07:54 PM
04-14-2009, 09:47 PM
There's a tendency for every generation of Americans to think they're somehow unique and that the problems faced by them were not seen in previous generations. Its simply not true.
I like the concept of using as much of a private sector element in wartime situations, as long as its done efficiently and intelligently, which it has not been this time around. I will say that I think that a lot of this war's initial strategies were based around new models of war fighting techniques, and were just as much a showcase of Rumsfeld's warfighting doctrines as anything else. That being said, I don't think the intent was malicious, I think they had the legitimate belief that what they were doing was right.
04-15-2009, 06:16 PM
WW2-No way to avoid it.
Vietnam- Whoa, the Gulf of Tonkin was fake and a false flag attack. There was plenty of push for war and people did make lots of money. Banking interest especially on part of the Rockefellers that through the banking system were lending money to both sides.
Plus rules were made so the United States would lose. Many congressmen had stock in Bell who made helicopters and soon had a boom in industry.
Both the two Gulf wars and commercial interests heavily vested in the conflict. The 2nd war was very obvious. WMD's were never there.
On a side note: People should really think about who is financing all these wars. Even through out history International banks have through one method or another started conflicts for profits.
04-17-2009, 09:52 PM
04-18-2009, 12:13 AM
04-19-2009, 12:55 AM
First off, TARP, the program I was referring to, is funded through the Treasury Department.
Secondly, there is nothing international about the Federal Reserve. The federal reserve is a quasi government entity that has a mandate to ensure the stability of the US banking system and US monetary policy.
Finally, congress doesn't get money from international banks, they get money primarily through taxes and Treasury notes and bonds.
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