Poll: Should we invade Iraq??

War On Iraq: Yay or Nay??

Page 7 of 7 First ... 2567
  1. Gold Member
    BodyWizard's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Age
    62
    Posts
    2,378
    Answers
    0

    I knew it would happen eventually!

    Seriously. Political will & military necessity must work hand-in-hand, whether it's Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, or Normandy Beach. And economic reality is ignored at the nation's peril.

    Not controversial, IMO.

  2. Registered User
    crawlinmatt's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  193 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    31
    Posts
    23
    Answers
    0

    Talking


    I say yay...........JOB SECURITY
  3. Registered User
    AM07's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,155
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Wow, this is the closest I've ever come to agreeing with you BW!

    I could agree with time goals, but not a hard time line. If sh.it over there goes to hell in a handbasket the goals may always have go out the window.
    So if there are goals but not a hard time line, then when the hell do we get out????

    Lives have been lost in this war, and for what? So a couple elites can get rich, that's why.
    •   
       

  4. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    So if there are goals but not a hard time line, then when the hell do we get out????
    When the goals are achieved.

    Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    Lives have been lost in this war, and for what? So a couple elites can get rich, that's why.
    Ok, assuming your statement is true, which I don't but just for the sake of argument....

    You still have 24 million people in the country that have been ravaged by 30 years of Saddam's tyranny, and years of war, both prior to and following the US invasion. Things are improving. The fact that we're there, for whatever reason, means that we owe these people a peaceful existence where they can better their lives.

    Turning over Iraq before their infrastructure, army and police force are ready is condemning those 24 million people to whatever existence Iran or the strongest warlord in Iraq has in store for them. Nobody wants to be there forever, but we have invested 5 years and thousands of lives there....we need to finish the job.
  5. Registered User
    CopyCat's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  187 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Age
    33
    Posts
    6,262
    Answers
    0

    I won't get into whether or not we should be there 'cause I don't give a sh*t. I go where my Marines go, simple as that. I will say however, that I had Iraqi's thank me when I was there in 2003 and I had Iraqi's thank me when I was there in 2006 and 2007. In fact, I had Iraqi's pull cross necklaces out from under their shirts and tell me that they had to live in fear and hide/practice their religion in secret for fear of persecution and death. Now they can be christians openly. I do think that speaks volumes. Simple fact is, Al Queda is losing ground and can not sustain in Iraq. However, if we leave them un prepared we are setting them up for failure. Iraq is a 3rd world nation and as so is decade behind the modern world. Wich means it's going to be a hard road to catch up. In their prior state that would never happen. One of the tools dictators use to assume/maintain power over the people is to oppress, keep uneducated, and terrorize the populace (but the dictators friends, allies, and power bases all seem to be the ones whom are educated and affluent). This has been evident in history over and over again with Hitler, Mousilinni, Stalin, Kim Il etc etc.
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
  6. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Does anyone else think its odd that people are voting on this poll 5 years after the fact......
  7. Registered User
    CopyCat's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  187 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Age
    33
    Posts
    6,262
    Answers
    0

    lol
    ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
    Strongest On The Market
    RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
  8. Banned
    Omen's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  210 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,369
    Answers
    0

    Bush regrets Iraqi WMD failure

    Outgoing US President George Bush has said his biggest regret is the failure of intelligence over Iraqi weapons.

    In a wide-ranging TV interview, he declined to say whether he would have decided to invade Iraq if he had known it had no weapons of mass destruction.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7759908.stm
  9. Registered User
    flobot's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    434
    Answers
    0

    Yep, you invaded Iraq and destroyed it same as Afghanistan which you left to us Canadians to police.
  10. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by flobot View Post
    Yep, you invaded Iraq and destroyed it same as Afghanistan which you left to us Canadians to police.
    Canada saves the day again!

  11. Registered User
    flobot's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    434
    Answers
    0

    Yeah so you guys should stop blaming Canada lol
  12. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by flobot View Post
    Yep, you invaded Iraq and destroyed it same as Afghanistan which you left to us Canadians to police.
    I guess its better that the Canadians are policing than the German Army:


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-boys-dry.html
  13. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Does anyone else think its odd that people are voting on this poll 5 years after the fact......
    PEOPLE NEED TO QUIT VOTING! We already went into Iraq. This is a very old poll. Maybe we should post a poll for "should we go into Vietnam" next....

    This was posted on FEBRUARY 15, 2003!
  14. Pro Virili Parte
    Board Sponsor
    JudoJosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Age
    29
    Posts
    8,793
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen View Post
    Bush regrets Iraqi WMD failure

    Outgoing US President George Bush has said his biggest regret is the failure of intelligence over Iraqi weapons.

    In a wide-ranging TV interview, he declined to say whether he would have decided to invade Iraq if he had known it had no weapons of mass destruction.

    BBC NEWS | Americas | Bush regrets Iraqi WMD failure
    did you watch his latest press confrence.. he list his top 3 mistakes and they are putting mission accomplishment on an aircraft carrier, that it sent the wrong message, no2. that some of his rederic was a mistake and finally that running social security idea after the 04 elections was a mistake... then he says that there have been several disappointments such as iraq not having WMDs was a signifficent disappointment, abu ghraib was a disapointment, .. notice he says disapointment not mistakes as if we let him down and he was not a fault in any way
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  15. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    did you watch his latest press confrence.. he list his top 3 mistakes and they are putting mission accomplishment on an aircraft carrier, that it sent the wrong message, no2. that some of his rederic was a mistake and finally that running social security idea after the 04 elections was a mistake... then he says that there have been several disappointments such as iraq not having WMDs was a signifficent disappointment, abu ghraib was a disapointment, .. notice he says disapointment not mistakes as if we let him down and he was not a fault in any way
    Based upon all the liberal bumper stickers I've read and college student's I've spoken to, Bush is responsible for 9/11, the economic situtation we're in, medicare/medicaid failures, social security failures, AIDS, "global warming", car crashes, Vietnam, communism, and the Great Depression.

    I disagree with some of his decisions, but people who have the audacity to say he's the worst president ever have no sense of scope or US history.
  16. Pro Virili Parte
    Board Sponsor
    JudoJosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Age
    29
    Posts
    8,793
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Based upon all the liberal bumper stickers I've read and college student's I've spoken to, Bush is responsible for 9/11, the economic situtation we're in, medicare/medicaid failures, social security failures, AIDS, "global warming", car crashes, Vietnam, communism, and the Great Depression.

    I disagree with some of his decisions, but people who have the audacity to say he's the worst president ever have no sense of scope or US history.
    Yea he is the reason I am fat too.. damn jag off..lol
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  17. Registered User
    blastedlooger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    43
    Answers
    0

    Wow, this is old... I'm guessing more were in favor of invading Iraq when this thread started.
  18. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by blastedlooger View Post
    Wow, this is old... I'm guessing more were in favor of invading Iraq when this thread started.
    Yeah, it was a clear majority "for" in 2004 when I first saw the thread.
  19. Registered User
    luclyluciano's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,495
    Answers
    0

    Bush's biggest regret is that he himself lacks intelligence. I was shocked you guys re-elected him. How much pain must one endure? Your politics is like Religion....you have blind Faith in your leaders based on their party.
  20. Registered User
    jonesboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    44
    Posts
    617
    Answers
    0

    First off there is NO WAR. This was a military action. America has not been in a war since WW2. In a war corporations and banks cannot profit like they can in a military action. We would not have more mercenaries than soldiers in Iraq if this was a war. It does lose some of the luster, that we are there for the people, knowing that we are always at war in some part of the world and that many, many large companies profit from such actions and the sacrifices of our brave soldiers.

    I do wish this had been a War. I believe if it had things would have been very different right now. Many times when greed comes into play. People don't always do what is right for the masses.
  21. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by luclyluciano View Post
    Bush's biggest regret is that he himself lacks intelligence. I was shocked you guys re-elected him. How much pain must one endure? Your politics is like Religion....you have blind Faith in your leaders based on their party.
    You're an moron. To say the majority of Americans voted for a candidate due to "blind faith in their party" is idiotic. Isn't it possible that they shared the same values and disliked the alternative candidate?

    Vote for change......like a 900 billion dollar pork bill and 30,000 more Soldiers to Afghanistan. "If this 900 billion dollar pork bill does not pass, we may never get out of this economic situation." WTF, this guy is an idiot.
  22. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesboy View Post
    First off there is NO WAR. This was a military action. America has not been in a war since WW2. In a war corporations and banks cannot profit like they can in a military action. We would not have more mercenaries than soldiers in Iraq if this was a war. It does lose some of the luster, that we are there for the people, knowing that we are always at war in some part of the world and that many, many large companies profit from such actions and the sacrifices of our brave soldiers.

    I do wish this had been a War. I believe if it had things would have been very different right now. Many times when greed comes into play. People don't always do what is right for the masses.
    Of course this was not a war, it is an illegal war. Everything was done so that corporations would profit from the war.

    The American People were duped.
  23. Registered User
    lutherblsstt's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    760
    Answers
    0

    Dahr Jamail is an unembedded journalist in Iraq and author of Beyond the Green Zone: Dispatches from an Unembedded Journalist in Occupied Iraq and Military Resisters: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. His personal website is www.dahrjamailiraq.com He has one of the most unique perspectives I have read.

    Here he does an interview where he discusses the millions of Iraqi refugees who claim they will never return, the rising discontent among members of Sunni “Awakening” groups, the incredibly high potential for violence in a politically unstable country with armed militias and 50% unemployment : http://awr.dissentradio.com/09_02_12_jamail.mp3
  24. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Iraq was a farce the in 1991. At least there was no loss of American lives on the same scale as today.

    The war was a farce, we wanted Saddam to move into Kuwait, and Kuwait was illegally drilling in Iraqi soil. After we supported Iraq and Iranian forces to kill each other, while giving him plenty of chemical arms.

    Our soldier's health problems were hidden from the public. I know someone personally who came back heavily affected and mentally, sterile, schizophrenic, and developed cancer. The soldier's got the shaft and were used as cannon fodder.

    After the war Saddam basically followed our demands, then we imposed UN Sanctions that killed an estimated 500,000 children. We starved the country to death, filled it with depleted uranium. Stole their natural resources and ruined their civil infrastructure. Oh yeah and let's not forget the Oil for Food blunder.

    Hussein was a Tyrant, but he was not a problem. We have supported a lot worse people than him before.

    Finally, after suffering through 9/11, Bush used the pain and fear of American's to start a war that was a complete lie. No WMD's, no al-queda, no connection to terrorism and all of this was known before the war. The war was planned far before 9/11. We have the finest intelligence, and military in the world and you expect them to think they had WMD's? Then we say oops and keep our troops there dying.

    No soldier's life is worth anything in Iraq. Defending Freedom? What a load of ****. That is far from true. If that were remotely true we wouldn't have destroyed our own bill or rights, and started spying on the Citizens. What constitution are they swearing to defend? Only the 3rd amendment has been left untouched.

    Fighting terrorism? Uh no, the people fighting our troops who want nothing more than the United States to quit occupying their country and stealing their resources. The actual terrorist who are there, have gone there for the sake of killing Americans.

    This patriotic movement behind the Iraq war is just a technique to force people to be Patriots or traitors.

    Yet the US public ate it up. The ignorant conservatives ate the bull**** right up. The a clear fraudulent election keeps Dictator Bush in office.

    who lost- United States and her Citizens
    4000+ KIA
    10000+ Permanently wounded/disfigured
    1000000 civilians dead
    God knows how many BILLIONS of dollars of debt we have now.
    2700 cases of female sexual assaults in our military in Iraq
    Our national defense
    HALF of our soldiers are suffering from mental disease and use Psychemeds,
    10% suicide rate among Servicemen
    Taxpayers-they got taken to the cleaners

    Winners of the War:
    The International Banks
    Halliburton
    Blackwater
    Defense Companies
    Britain-(for staying away from the hot spots and pretending to figth)
    Communications Companies
    Fox News
    Wolfiwitz
    Interceptor body armor for denying dragon skin to soldiers!
    Islamic Terrorists-they have even more propaganda
    Iran-Can rally support for themselves in the face of a US invasion now.



    How can Bush, The NeoCons and the Zionist sleep at night? So many people from both sides are dead. Local Iraqis for not wanting American Occupation and fighting for their nation, and US servicemen for being dragged into a war they shouldn't be fighting and Civilians who already suffer 10 years of Sanctions only to be punished with a devastating war.

    Oh yeah and a handful of Brits.

    The war is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
    The war is ILLEGAL
    The war is UN AMERICAN.
  25. Registered User
    lutherblsstt's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    760
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post

    who lost- United States and her Citizens
    4000+ KIA
    10000+ Permanently wounded/disfigured
    1000000 civilians dead
    God knows how many BILLIONS of dollars of debt we have now.
    2700 cases of female sexual assaults in our military in Iraq
    Our national defense
    HALF of our soldiers are suffering from mental disease and use Psychemeds,
    10% suicide rate among Servicemen
    Taxpayers-they got taken to the cleaners

    Winners of the War:
    The International Banks
    Halliburton
    Blackwater
    Defense Companies
    Britain-(for staying away from the hot spots and pretending to figth)
    Communications Companies
    Fox News
    Wolfiwitz
    Interceptor body armor for denying dragon skin to soldiers!
    Islamic Terrorists-they have even more propaganda
    Iran-Can rally support for themselves in the face of a US invasion now.


  26. Registered User
    AM07's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,155
    Answers
    0

    nopeace, you said it best.

    Anyone that still supports this war has been brainwashed by the dumb ass "Republicans" in office. I put "Republicans" in quotes because the majority of them in office aren't real Republicans, just mindless drones who love to instill fear into people so the companies that support their re-election campaigns make more money and donate more to the piece of **** politicians they support to get their terrible policies passed.
  27. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    Iraq was a farce the in 1991. At least there was no loss of American lives on the same scale as today.

    The war was a farce, we wanted Saddam to move into Kuwait, and Kuwait was illegally drilling in Iraqi soil. After we supported Iraq and Iranian forces to kill each other, while giving him plenty of chemical arms.

    Our soldier's health problems were hidden from the public. I know someone personally who came back heavily affected and mentally, sterile, schizophrenic, and developed cancer. The soldier's got the shaft and were used as cannon fodder.

    After the war Saddam basically followed our demands, then we imposed UN Sanctions that killed an estimated 500,000 children. We starved the country to death, filled it with depleted uranium. Stole their natural resources and ruined their civil infrastructure. Oh yeah and let's not forget the Oil for Food blunder.

    Hussein was a Tyrant, but he was not a problem. We have supported a lot worse people than him before.

    Finally, after suffering through 9/11, Bush used the pain and fear of American's to start a war that was a complete lie. No WMD's, no al-queda, no connection to terrorism and all of this was known before the war. The war was planned far before 9/11. We have the finest intelligence, and military in the world and you expect them to think they had WMD's? Then we say oops and keep our troops there dying.

    No soldier's life is worth anything in Iraq. Defending Freedom? What a load of ****. That is far from true. If that were remotely true we wouldn't have destroyed our own bill or rights, and started spying on the Citizens. What constitution are they swearing to defend? Only the 3rd amendment has been left untouched.

    Fighting terrorism? Uh no, the people fighting our troops who want nothing more than the United States to quit occupying their country and stealing their resources. The actual terrorist who are there, have gone there for the sake of killing Americans.

    This patriotic movement behind the Iraq war is just a technique to force people to be Patriots or traitors.

    Yet the US public ate it up. The ignorant conservatives ate the bull**** right up. The a clear fraudulent election keeps Dictator Bush in office.

    who lost- United States and her Citizens
    4000+ KIA
    10000+ Permanently wounded/disfigured
    1000000 civilians dead
    God knows how many BILLIONS of dollars of debt we have now.
    2700 cases of female sexual assaults in our military in Iraq
    Our national defense
    HALF of our soldiers are suffering from mental disease and use Psychemeds,
    10% suicide rate among Servicemen
    Taxpayers-they got taken to the cleaners

    Winners of the War:
    The International Banks
    Halliburton
    Blackwater
    Defense Companies
    Britain-(for staying away from the hot spots and pretending to figth)
    Communications Companies
    Fox News
    Wolfiwitz
    Interceptor body armor for denying dragon skin to soldiers!
    Islamic Terrorists-they have even more propaganda
    Iran-Can rally support for themselves in the face of a US invasion now.



    How can Bush, The NeoCons and the Zionist sleep at night? So many people from both sides are dead. Local Iraqis for not wanting American Occupation and fighting for their nation, and US servicemen for being dragged into a war they shouldn't be fighting and Civilians who already suffer 10 years of Sanctions only to be punished with a devastating war.

    Oh yeah and a handful of Brits.

    The war is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
    The war is ILLEGAL
    The war is UN AMERICAN.
    I wasn't originally for the war, but we went and its fricking 6 years later. Quit fricking whining.

    You whine about innocent Iraqi citizens dying while you ignore the tyrannical madman who committed wholesale ethnic cleansing using WMDs on his own people. There also was evidence of WMDs being found in Iraq. It was in a congressional report and was reported, though swept under the rug by most liberal media outlets.

    Unconstitutional? What's unconstitutional about the Iraq War? You may as well whine about Kennedy and LBJ and the liberals while you're at it. Ever heard of the Vietnam Conflict? Nixon ended that. I think you'd have a much better argument saying that the Fed, Social Security, Income Taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, TARP, TALF, welfare or any other social program is unconstitutional, but really, a president acting in what he perceives is a threat to the interests of the nation with consent from congress is not unconstitutional, given prior precedents. Try reading the constitution and federalist papers if you want to really know what the document means.

    Illegal? Congress authorized it. The legislative branch. What's freaking illegal about going to war, even if its undeclared? Are you talking about UN law or international law or some other stupid hippy BS?

    Unamerican? Going to war is unamerican? America has a long history proactively initiating conflicts abroad in the name of US interest. What specifically is unamerican about this case?

    Get off your high horse about "just war" and UN multi-nationalist action bullshat. Obama won. You have a radical liberal in office to show you just how badly our country can really be screwed up.
  28. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I wasn't originally for the war, but we went and its fricking 6 years later. Quit fricking whining.

    Okay then, just let this trustworthy Gov. continue to rule with dignity and truth in order to preserve our Republic. yah sure...

    I mistook this thread for a new thread since it's been bumped periodically(I won't post anymore on this thread) RobInKuwait You can PM if you like so thread dies)


    You whine about innocent Iraqi citizens dying while you ignore the tyrannical madman who committed wholesale ethnic cleansing using WMDs on his own people. There also was evidence of WMDs being found in Iraq. It was in a congressional report and was reported, though swept under the rug by most liberal media outlets.

    Shells with Mustard gas was the last I heard of, I doubt it would have got swept under the rug as it would have glorified Bush. From my understanding only remnants of pre-1991 weapons were found and it was concluded that Iraq ended it's program after 1991.

    Can you link me the evidence of the cover up?

    I know about his gassing of the Kurds, he also gassed some Iranians. I never said Hussein was a peaceful loving leader, he is indeed a sadistic tyrant, yet most Iraqis prefer his rule of US occupation. So if were trying to save the people from him, why did we starve them to death for ten years?

    We could have taken out Saddam with the CIA. We're exceedingly good at causing Military Coups, Revolts etc..

    If this was an issue of National Security why are they Ignoring N. Korea? They have nukes and missiles to deliver them, yet were only trying to sell the Iraq war? (Speaking at time of 02-03) We should be threatening N. Korea. kim jong Ill is also tyranical. Even today N.K. is still treated as a second page story next to anything that has to do with Iran. I would support a strike against NK any day over Iran.


    Unconstitutional? What's unconstitutional about the Iraq War? You may as well whine about Kennedy and LBJ and the liberals while you're at it. Ever heard of the Vietnam Conflict? Nixon ended that. I think you'd have a much better argument saying that the Fed, Social Security, Income Taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, TARP, TALF, welfare or any other social program is unconstitutional, but really, a president acting in what he perceives is a threat to the interests of the nation with consent from congress is not unconstitutional, given prior precedents. Try reading the constitution and federalist papers if you want to really know what the document means.

    Vietnam was started on a lie as well, there was no PT boat incident and this has been verified by Pilots and other servicemen, nobody cares however.

    How many proactive engagements? Bush's perception of a threat to this nation from Iraq was decided before 9/11/01. If we were interested in fighting terrorism we have aimed at Saudi Arabia they have PLENTY of ties to terrorism.

    Kennedy was a decent President and the last one we ever had. He began the withdrawal from Vietnam, intended to abolish the CIA and return the US to a gold standard instead of a foreign bank like we have right now but he was shot.


    Illegal? Congress authorized it. The legislative branch. What's freaking illegal about going to war, even if its undeclared? Are you talking about UN law or international law or some other stupid hippy BS?

    International Law makes it illegal. It did not receive approval of the UN Security Council. No, there was no Congressional declaration of a state of war between the two countries. Some argue this is a technicality and others say it has meaning.

    Unamerican? Going to war is unamerican? America has a long history proactively initiating conflicts abroad in the name of US interest. What specifically is unamerican about this case?

    It is Un-American for a President to lie to the public and declare war under a false cause, WMD's was just a crock of ****. We've been in Iraq for years, and we weren't keeping track of what was going on there? C'mon! Our vastly sophisticated intelligence agency couldn't find anything after saying they were sure about it? How is this war "defending freedom"?

    It's UnAmerican to sell out your soldiers for Corporate interests. Do you like Halliburton stock rising as our Casualty is rising? **** that. Is that Patriotism? How can our Vice President walk around promoting a war so his company can make a buck? FcuK the Chickenhawks who declared this war, Cheney never set foot in 'Nam and got 5 differments to save his ass. He has no right to start wars seeing as how he never had the balls to fight for his own country after wearing the uniform and swearing an oath.

    War is not un-American. We have been defined by our conflicts. The revolutionary war, civil war, WWI, WWII Korea.
    Preemptive war can be justified if the threat is imminent and clearly a danger. N.K. is an example of this-again


    Get off your high horse about "just war" and UN multi-nationalist action bullshat. Obama won. You have a radical liberal in office to show you just how badly our country can really be screwed up.

    War is not a tool for profit by the Elites of this Nation. I do not like Obama at all, by all means I consider him WORSE if anything than Bush. Obama is really screwing our Country up, he is a bold face liar and uses his eloquent speeches to weasel his way out. His celebrity and significance in the eyes of the US as the First Black President has blinded everyone, that he is no different than Bush.

    Are you mad or pleased with the result?
  29. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    Are you mad or pleased with the result?

    Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.0.8) Gecko/2009032609 Firefox/3.0.8
    I could honestly care less about the results. To me there is only one political issue I care about now, which is keeping the free market as intact as possible.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2006...eds-wmds-iraq/

    Here's the WMD link. There's an embedded link to a congressional report within the article. Like I said though, this was pretty much swept under the rug. I also have several friends who said similar things about WMDs they saw firsthand in 2003. DAdams has posted photos from when he was in Iraq of pictures of WMDs he saw there.

    Just a couple points you brought up that I'd like to address:

    Okay then, just let this trustworthy Gov. continue to rule with dignity and truth in order to preserve our Republic. yah sure...
    I agree with you that citizens have an obligation to continually check up on their government, but its pretty masturbatory to badmouth a war that is getting wound down in the next year.

    How many proactive engagements?
    Hundreds. Everything from the first and second barbary wars, to the Spanish American war, to the Mexican American war.

    Kennedy was a decent President and the last one we ever had. He began the withdrawal from Vietnam, intended to abolish the CIA and return the US to a gold standard instead of a foreign bank like we have right now but he was shot.
    Actually, Vietnam was ramped up considerably under Kennedy, and then exponentially under his vice president after his death. I can't say all bad things about Kennedy as I like his low taxes and conservative streak.

    International Law makes it illegal. It did not receive approval of the UN Security Council. No, there was no Congressional declaration of a state of war between the two countries. Some argue this is a technicality and others say it has meaning.
    This is a legal fallacy. UN law does not apply to the United States Government. The UN is nowhere in the constitution. We choose to acknowledge the UN. The only law that restrains the US government is US law and the Constitution.

    I agree that war should have been declared, but as I said before prior precedent makes it unnecessary.

    It is Un-American for a President to lie to the public and declare war under a false cause, WMD's was just a crock of ****. We've been in Iraq for years, and we weren't keeping track of what was going on there? C'mon! Our vastly sophisticated intelligence agency couldn't find anything after saying they were sure about it? How is this war "defending freedom"?

    It's UnAmerican to sell out your soldiers for Corporate interests. Do you like Halliburton stock rising as our Casualty is rising? **** that. Is that Patriotism? How can our Vice President walk around promoting a war so his company can make a buck? FcuK the Chickenhawks who declared this war, Cheney never set foot in 'Nam and got 5 differments to save his ass. He has no right to start wars seeing as how he never had the balls to fight for his own country after wearing the uniform and swearing an oath.

    War is not un-American. We have been defined by our conflicts. The revolutionary war, civil war, WWI, WWII Korea.
    Preemptive war can be justified if the threat is imminent and clearly a danger. N.K. is an example of this-again
    I don't see this as any less American than sending forces to the Bay of Pigs to fight Castro, or in taking out Hitler, another ruthless tyrant. The moral imperative against Saddam is there, just as it is against North Korea. The fact that we execute that impertative doesn't make us wrong, unless it goes against the worldwide role that America believes it should occupy.

    I don't agree that Bush sent Americans to fight the war with the express purpose of giving a payoff to Cheney's former company. Right or wrong, the war in the end has achieved a free Iraq at this point...whether it stays free or not will depend on the Iraqi people.

    War is not a tool for profit by the Elites of this Nation. I do not like Obama at all, by all means I consider him WORSE if anything than Bush. Obama is really screwing our Country up, he is a bold face liar and uses his eloquent speeches to weasel his way out. His celebrity and significance in the eyes of the US as the First Black President has blinded everyone, that he is no different than Bush.
    I agree with everything you said there, except I think Obama is 10 times worse than Bush.
  30. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    I could honestly care less about the results. To me there is only one political issue I care about now, which is keeping the free market as intact as possible.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2006...eds-wmds-iraq/

    Here's the WMD link. There's an embedded link to a congressional report within the article. Like I said though, this was pretty much swept under the rug. I also have several friends who said similar things about WMDs they saw firsthand in 2003. DAdams has posted photos from when he was in Iraq of pictures of WMDs he saw there.

    Thanks, yeah I heard about those, but I think it's not exactly what they were looking for. They aren't wmd's as they could only be used tactically I guess against troops. Maybe they were looking for bio-type weapons etc.

    Just a couple points you brought up that I'd like to address:



    I agree with you that citizens have an obligation to continually check up on their government, but its pretty masturbatory to badmouth a war that is getting wound down in the next year.

    People should see and learn about the mistakes made. I think people should look back and see all the pre-"warmongering" going on, and then really think about Iran.



    Hundreds. Everything from the first and second barbary wars, to the Spanish American war, to the Mexican American war.

    Well, maybe in more recent times I guess would be more applicable seeing as War cost a lot more. I guess we're back to square one on pirates cuz the Navy and take some out. LOL.

    Mexican American was "iffy" many historians believe it was just an attempt to get all of Mexico, but only half was given.

    In cases where we are talking full-scale invasions we should re-think who we are attacking. We should also examine who is lining up for those big contracts.




    Actually, Vietnam was ramped up considerably under Kennedy, and then exponentially under his vice president after his death. I can't say all bad things about Kennedy as I like his low taxes and conservative streak.



    This is a legal fallacy. UN law does not apply to the United States Government. The UN is nowhere in the constitution. We choose to acknowledge the UN. The only law that restrains the US government is US law and the Constitution.

    I agree that war should have been declared, but as I said before prior precedent makes it unnecessary.

    Ok, then you're right this point is trivial. Would change hardly anything if it was declared.





    I don't see this as any less American than sending forces to the Bay of Pigs to fight Castro, or in taking out Hitler, another ruthless tyrant. The moral imperative against Saddam is there, just as it is against North Korea. The fact that we execute that impertative doesn't make us wrong, unless it goes against the worldwide role that America believes it should occupy.


    Well Americans didn't fight in the Bay of Pigs, we sold out the men who we were supposed to provide air support for. Hitler had way more of a rap sheet than Hussein, he had already taken over countries and began massive build up of his military early (with the funding of Prescott Bush) and we had been attacked by Japan.

    I agree there are times when the United States does have to step up. Iraq would have been great if they had only planned it better and began to rebuild as soon as the Hussein was done. We failed to win the hearts and minds of the locals, and that is when we encountered a resistance.


    I don't agree that Bush sent Americans to fight the war with the express purpose of giving a payoff to Cheney's former company. Right or wrong, the war in the end has achieved a free Iraq at this point...whether it stays free or not will depend on the Iraqi people.

    Perhaps not on sole commercial interest, but seeing how many others are being subsidized by the US taxpayer at an outrageous amount. I would say it is unethical to try to maximize profit from a war and unethical to push for it because you are first in line for the contract. KBR was charging the tax payer 90$ to wash a bag of laundry, burning trucks after they would get a flat tire and ordering new ones at the US taxpayers expense this stuff makes me angry.

    Now Halliburton has the contract for the pipeline projected in Afghanistan
    .



    I agree with everything you said there, except I think Obama is 10 times worse than Bush.
    Bro, if you believe our nation is coming down from the inside you don't want Obama. Obama is worse than Bush essentially because people were not afraid to oppose him publicly. Since Obama is the first half black president people will start to label you "racists" or continue to support him believing that his a brand new fresh face with new ideas for our country type of bs. I see the Black Americans proud to finally think they achieved steps forward in the US but they have no idea Obama is giving them the finger under the table.

    From what I believe and see in the actions of our Government, it wouldn't have mattered if McCain won or Obama won. McCain was super-pro-bomb everyone and Obama pretended to be a different candidate, then back stabbed everyone who was hoping he was gonna restore the constitution and "bring up the little guys". They are two sides of the same coin, who serve outside interest not the US Citizens. (this could get a bit conspiracy theory-ish)

    The Candidates only have differentiation on domestic issues, but the global goals seem to be the same. Only 3rd party candidates made any sense and they were screwed over by the media who pretended they didn't exist, they were forced out of the debates, Ron Paul(R) was not even allowed in the RNC or in the debates after he was voted numerous times to have won.

    My biggest concern is our Constitution and Civil Liberties, and the Our National Sovereignty. Piece by piece we are losing our freedom. I suggest you check out my thread about the MIAC report.
  31. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    Bro, if you believe our nation is coming down from the inside you don't want Obama. Obama is worse than Bush essentially because people were not afraid to oppose him publicly. Since Obama is the first half black president people will start to label you "racists" or continue to support him believing that his a brand new fresh face with new ideas for our country type of bs. I see the Black Americans proud to finally think they achieved steps forward in the US but they have no idea Obama is giving them the finger under the table.

    From what I believe and see in the actions of our Government, it wouldn't have mattered if McCain won or Obama won. McCain was super-pro-bomb everyone and Obama pretended to be a different candidate, then back stabbed everyone who was hoping he was gonna restore the constitution and "bring up the little guys". They are two sides of the same coin, who serve outside interest not the US Citizens. (this could get a bit conspiracy theory-ish)

    The Candidates only have differentiation on domestic issues, but the global goals seem to be the same. Only 3rd party candidates made any sense and they were screwed over by the media who pretended they didn't exist, they were forced out of the debates, Ron Paul(R) was not even allowed in the RNC or in the debates after he was voted numerous times to have won.

    My biggest concern is our Constitution and Civil Liberties, and the Our National Sovereignty. Piece by piece we are losing our freedom. I suggest you check out my thread about the MIAC report.
    Ron Paul FTW!
  32. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Ron Paul FTW!
    Fookin Right!

    Only person that made sense.
  33. Registered User
    AM07's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,155
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    America has a long history proactively initiating conflicts abroad in the name of US interest. What specifically is unamerican about this case?
    Except in the case of the Iraq War, it's in the interest of a few elite people in this country that made BILLIONS off this war being fought.
  34. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    Except in the case of the Iraq War, it's in the interest of a few elite people in this country that made BILLIONS off this war being fought.
    This is my point exactly. The elites/NeoCons/Coporates/Military Industrial Complex etc- all pushed for war.


    The public was brainwashed. All these companies took us to the cleaners.
  35. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by AM07 View Post
    Except in the case of the Iraq War, it's in the interest of a few elite people in this country that made BILLIONS off this war being fought.
    That's happened in every war. Do you really think Colt didn't make large sums of money of Vietnam and Springfield didn't make large sums off WW1, WW2 and Korea? Government spending money will always give money to specific companies. Do you think the stimulus will be any different?

    There's a tendency for every generation of Americans to think they're somehow unique and that the problems faced by them were not seen in previous generations. Its simply not true.

    I like the concept of using as much of a private sector element in wartime situations, as long as its done efficiently and intelligently, which it has not been this time around. I will say that I think that a lot of this war's initial strategies were based around new models of war fighting techniques, and were just as much a showcase of Rumsfeld's warfighting doctrines as anything else. That being said, I don't think the intent was malicious, I think they had the legitimate belief that what they were doing was right.
  36. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    That's happened in every war. Do you really think Colt didn't make large sums of money of Vietnam and Springfield didn't make large sums off WW1, WW2 and Korea? Government spending money will always give money to specific companies. Do you think the stimulus will be any different?

    There's a tendency for every generation of Americans to think they're somehow unique and that the problems faced by them were not seen in previous generations. Its simply not true.

    I like the concept of using as much of a private sector element in wartime situations, as long as its done efficiently and intelligently, which it has not been this time around. I will say that I think that a lot of this war's initial strategies were based around new models of war fighting techniques, and were just as much a showcase of Rumsfeld's warfighting doctrines as anything else. That being said, I don't think the intent was malicious, I think they had the legitimate belief that what they were doing was right.
    You have to consider the necessity of the Conflict and who is pushing for it.

    WW2-No way to avoid it.
    Korea-Questionable

    Vietnam- Whoa, the Gulf of Tonkin was fake and a false flag attack. There was plenty of push for war and people did make lots of money. Banking interest especially on part of the Rockefellers that through the banking system were lending money to both sides.

    Plus rules were made so the United States would lose. Many congressmen had stock in Bell who made helicopters and soon had a boom in industry.

    Both the two Gulf wars and commercial interests heavily vested in the conflict. The 2nd war was very obvious. WMD's were never there.

    On a side note: People should really think about who is financing all these wars. Even through out history International banks have through one method or another started conflicts for profits.
  37. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    On a side note: People should really think about who is financing all these wars. Even through out history International banks have through one method or another started conflicts for profits.
    Why start wars when you can just get billions directly from congress?

  38. Registered User
    nopeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Age
    33
    Posts
    278
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by RobInKuwait View Post
    Why start wars when you can just get billions directly from congress?

    Congress gets the money from international banks, the FED is an international Central bank owned privately. It's not part of the Federal Government.
  39. Gold Member
    RobInKuwait's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  269 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,291
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by nopeace View Post
    Congress gets the money from international banks, the FED is an international Central bank owned privately. It's not part of the Federal Government.
    You need to study up on this stuff....your comments are not at all accurate.

    First off, TARP, the program I was referring to, is funded through the Treasury Department.

    Secondly, there is nothing international about the Federal Reserve. The federal reserve is a quasi government entity that has a mandate to ensure the stability of the US banking system and US monetary policy.

    Finally, congress doesn't get money from international banks, they get money primarily through taxes and Treasury notes and bonds.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Sleep supp while on Epi - yay or nay?
    By StangBanger in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-25-2011, 09:05 AM
  2. TestForce2, on cycle libido boost? yay or nay?
    By mark118 in forum E-Pharm Nutrition
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2011, 02:37 PM
  3. Superman Returns 2006 - Suit: yay or nay?
    By Y2Jversion1 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 06-21-2006, 02:55 PM
  4. War On Iraq Part 2
    By Zen_69 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-07-2003, 11:36 AM
  5. Hot Sauce Yay or Nay?
    By ex_banana-eater in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-03-2003, 09:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in