Election of 2012....Who ya got?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by vinnythestick View Post
    Cain vs Paul vs Romney
    ^^^ Federal Reserve Dictator vs Thomas Jefferson vs Death to late night television
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  2. Perry continues to fall. Now in 4th with Romney, Cain and Gingrich ahead. Poor Ron Paul
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by vinnythestick View Post
    I think the Libertarian party is too anarchistic for my tastes. They believe in too small a government role in economics, foreign-policy, drugs, prostitution, etc.

    This would be awesome if the world was a better place, but if you dont place controls on people then they go crazy.

    Muslim extremists and Imperialist nations are getting ready to launch one hell of a war on the US in the next 30 years if we don't intervene IMHO.
    We'd experience huge jumps in human trafficking, sex slavery, etc.

    I think we'd need an insane police force to keep this type of government from failing to protect it's citizens from the dissidents of society.

    I think Libertarian views are about freedom and self-expression, but they fail to account for the views of the religious population of the world which are usually about reverence ,restraint, and order. Also the plain crazies.

    You give religious nuts and the crazies freedom and they kill you with it.
    I don't think it's going to turn into a free for all. I think everything that the libertarians want to legalize will still have to face tight restrictions. I don't think there would be anymore 'sex slaves' than there is now. My big issue is the drug war. I can't stand to think that '30,000?' people have died under unnecessary prohibition :/ even the cold-blooded cartel members wouldn't have been enlisted if all the gangs were bankrupted by legalization. but I'm leaving the US in january for a few years anyways, so while I hope things get better here, it's not in my backyard so to speak

  4. Quote Originally Posted by nonidentity View Post
    I hope things get better here, it's not in my backyard so to speak
    Nope...its full steam all out turning to a police state here and there is nothing stopping it.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by ax1

    Nope...its full steam all out turning to a police state here and there is nothing stopping it.
    All according to plan..
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  6. ahhhh.....its good to see the tinfoil is out in full force

  7. Herman Cain Sings "imagine" All the pizza


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  8. But AX, dont you know that 9,9,9, is the new catch phrase for the masses?


  9. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    But AX, dont you know that 9,9,9, is the new catch phrase for the masses?

    This is troublesome...I was just doing a headstand while finishing up some computer work when I read your post and I realized there is a hidden message there.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    But AX, dont you know that 9,9,9, is the new catch phrase for the masses?


    The Christians really need to jump on this one.

  11. Nice heated debate last night. Cain's plain was shown to an extent as a fraud, and it is. Paul had his best debate thus far IMO, but I still think Romney comes out ahead again

  12. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    But AX, dont you know that 9,9,9, is the new catch phrase for the masses?


  13. and although i'll join in making fun of it, the plan when you think about it has some merits. Yes, viewed directly middle class sees an increase. But when their employer is paying 7% less in payroll taxes, that means more capability for raises. And similarly with some of the other areas, there would be an effect over time that would fix some of the issues as businesses worked out the new cost structure. But it would take a few years.

    I don't have a problem with middle + down being taxed more anyhow. We are nearing the point where close to half of america are tax consumers rather than tax payers and long term that just can't work.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Nice heated debate last night. Cain's plain was shown to an extent as a fraud, and it is. Paul had his best debate thus far IMO, but I still think Romney comes out ahead again
    I normally try not to pay attention to the way they act on these debate's, but Perry is just a plain prick, lol.

    You never know though....Perry could be staging that to help elevate Romney's status. Id doubt it, but you never know and it would work.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    and although i'll join in making fun of it, the plan when you think about it has some merits. Yes, viewed directly middle class sees an increase. But when their employer is paying 7% less in payroll taxes, that means more capability for raises. And similarly with some of the other areas, there would be an effect over time that would fix some of the issues as businesses worked out the new cost structure. But it would take a few years.

    I don't have a problem with middle + down being taxed more anyhow. We are nearing the point where close to half of america are tax consumers rather than tax payers and long term that just can't work.
    I only support no income tax. The term "fair income tax" isnt something that can exist in practice unless people enjoy slavery.

    Man's freedom = man owns his own labor, not the government.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    and although i'll join in making fun of it, the plan when you think about it has some merits. Yes, viewed directly middle class sees an increase. But when their employer is paying 7% less in payroll taxes, that means more capability for raises. And similarly with some of the other areas, there would be an effect over time that would fix some of the issues as businesses worked out the new cost structure. But it would take a few years.

    I don't have a problem with middle + down being taxed more anyhow. We are nearing the point where close to half of america are tax consumers rather than tax payers and long term that just can't work.
    look at your wording.....capability. That does not mean there will be, so in essence more for the middle class to carry, without a definite bump in pay.

    Once the logic of the plan is truly understood, Cain is toast imo

  17. Quote Originally Posted by AE14

    look at your wording.....capability. That does not mean there will be, so in essence more for the middle class to carry, without a definite bump in pay.

    Once the logic of the plan is truly understood, Cain is toast imo
    Yeah, and it would minimally take a year or two for wages and product pricing to catch up.

    But at this point, almost half of americans are tax consumers rather than payers, not paying even enough to cover what they will collect in social security. This needs to change

  18. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, and it would minimally take a year or two for wages and product pricing to catch up.

    But at this point, almost half of americans are tax consumers rather than payers, not paying even enough to cover what they will collect in social security. This needs to change
    it most certainly does....however, 999 is not the way to get it done. The federal sales tax can never pass. People will stop putting $ into the system if they get hit with 9% extra.

    As an aside....the apples to oranges thing was funny and stupid all at the same time

  19. Or, you could just as easily see which plan or approach is constitutional. Cain's plan, however "flawed" it might be, runs parallel to what the founding fathers said would work. This can be seen in Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Consitution. Plan as day really, the very first federal allowance. Uniform taxation. This was effective and the federal government never saw a deficit (with the exception of the Civil War era) until the constitutional revolution in 1912 by socialist Wilson when he had congress ratify Amendments 16 & 17 into the consititution. By doing this, Wilson effectively transferred all the power of the states to the federal government by giving the states no representation and giving the people double representation and with the 16th amendment allowing the feds to tax those people however they wish - without uniformity. So in essence, this was the very first socialist movement and has since gotten terribly worse. If Cain's deal on uniform taxation were to happen, the 16th amendment would have to be repealed...something I am in full support of getting rid of. I encourage you guys to read the Constitution asap before siding with one party/candidate over another. Its a quick 20 minute read for an educated individual, maybe 30-40 min for the lower than average IQ's. Either way, its stupid to even choose a side without first knowing the foundation and success of our country. If ur an "anti-natural rights" person, then u should just move somewhere else instead. There r plenty of socialist/communist/corporatist countries to choose from elsewhere. We dont need to change what is nearly perfect in our country to suit those who want to live in total government dependency.

    While Cain may have some additional things that he might need to adjust to make a strong run, I certainly like two things that he stands for:

    1) abolishing the 16th amendment by tax reform
    2) abolishing the 17th amendment by deligating power back to the states, which should be treated like mini countries since they were originally independent in every aspect OTHER THAN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, which the ISC clause defines clearly enough. This reduces the feds and central powers and gives it all back to the peeps and giving us essentially 50 different countries to choose from to live and prosper in.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Or, you could just as easily see which plan or approach is constitutional.
    Paul's plan = no income tax.

    Paul's plan is the only constitutional plan.

    Ron Paul supports the elimination of the income tax and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). He asserts that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and has called for the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified on February 3, 1913.An income tax is the most degrading and totalitarian of all possible taxes. Its implementation wrongly suggests that the government owns the lives and labor of the citizens it is supposed to represent. Tellingly, “a heavy progressive or graduated income tax” is Plank #2 of the Communist Manifesto, which was written by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels and first published in 1848.
    To provide funding for the federal government, Ron Paul supports excise taxes, non-protectionist tariffs, massive cuts in spending.
    Ron Paul discusses the income tax and the “FAIR Tax” in May 2007: (link for video)


    http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-04-15/en...olish-the-irs/
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  21. W
    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Paul's plan = no income tax.

    Paul's plan is the only constitutional plan.

    Ron Paul supports the elimination of the income tax and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). He asserts that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and has called for the repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified on February 3, 1913.An income tax is the most degrading and totalitarian of all possible taxes. Its implementation wrongly suggests that the government owns the lives and labor of the citizens it is supposed to represent. Tellingly, “a heavy progressive or graduated income tax” is Plank #2 of the Communist Manifesto, which was written by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels and first published in 1848.
    To provide funding for the federal government, Ron Paul supports excise taxes, non-protectionist tariffs, massive cuts in spending.
    Ron Paul discusses the income tax and the “FAIR Tax” in May 2007: (link for video)


    http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-04-15/en...olish-the-irs/
    I'm down with Ron Paul. Only problem is he doesnt have much of a shot right now..or does he? I'd vote for him before Cain, but between Cain, Romney and Perry - I'm for Cain.

    Hopefully Ron can makes something happen. He'd totally upset alot of congressman tho which is why I dont think he has a huge chance. Honestly tho, the tea party ought to be behind him. He is indeed the most inline with the constitution...

  22. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    W

    I'm down with Ron Paul. Only problem is he doesnt have much of a shot right now..or does he? I'd vote for him before Cain, but between Cain, Romney and Perry - I'm for Cain.

    Hopefully Ron can makes something happen. He'd totally upset alot of congressman tho which is why I dont think he has a huge chance. Honestly tho, the tea party ought to be behind him. He is indeed the most inline with the constitution...
    The problem is whenever a movement starts, mainstream media Hijacks it and will appoint Sarah Palin as the leader of it or something.

    If Paul doesnt run as an independent I wont vote for him...then I wont vote for anybody unless Nader runs. Yes dramatic difference but I like both of them. My politics are quite abstract.

    I completely have boycotted the single party american system of Republicrats, but I do understand how Paul needed to be a repub to get any attention.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion
    Or, you could just as easily see which plan or approach is constitutional. Cain's plan, however "flawed" it might be, runs parallel to what the founding fathers said would work. This can be seen in Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Consitution. Plan as day really, the very first federal allowance. Uniform taxation. This was effective and the federal government never saw a deficit (with the exception of the Civil War era) until the constitutional revolution in 1912 by socialist Wilson when he had congress ratify Amendments 16 & 17 into the consititution. By doing this, Wilson effectively transferred all the power of the states to the federal government by giving the states no representation and giving the people double representation and with the 16th amendment allowing the feds to tax those people however they wish - without uniformity. So in essence, this was the very first socialist movement and has since gotten terribly worse. If Cain's deal on uniform taxation were to happen, the 16th amendment would have to be repealed...something I am in full support of getting rid of. I encourage you guys to read the Constitution asap before siding with one party/candidate over another. Its a quick 20 minute read for an educated individual, maybe 30-40 min for the lower than average IQ's. Either way, its stupid to even choose a side without first knowing the foundation and success of our country. If ur an "anti-natural rights" person, then u should just move somewhere else instead. There r plenty of socialist/communist/corporatist countries to choose from elsewhere. We dont need to change what is nearly perfect in our country to suit those who want to live in total government dependency.

    While Cain may have some additional things that he might need to adjust to make a strong run, I certainly like two things that he stands for:

    1) abolishing the 16th amendment by tax reform
    2) abolishing the 17th amendment by deligating power back to the states, which should be treated like mini countries since they were originally independent in every aspect OTHER THAN INTERSTATE COMMERCE, which the ISC clause defines clearly enough. This reduces the feds and central powers and gives it all back to the peeps and giving us essentially 50 different countries to choose from to live and prosper in.
    No offense, there was enormous defects early in the countries history. Hence the enormous ordeal of Jackson balancing the budget.

    With that said, this is not a constitutional issue IMO. Cain's plan won't pass, simple as that. It puts too much of a hit on the middle class, and worse for him right now, his campaign is running out of money.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by AE14

    No offense, there was enormous defects early in the countries history. Hence the enormous ordeal of Jackson balancing the budget.

    With that said, this is not a constitutional issue IMO. Cain's plan won't pass, simple as that. It puts too much of a hit on the middle class, and worse for him right now, his campaign is running out of money.
    Sorry on my phone answering this.... You said to move elsewhere, but we are a coporatist nation, so we all need to move.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by AE14 View Post
    Sorry on my phone answering this.... You said to move elsewhere, but we are a coporatist nation, so we all need to move.
    Whats beautiful about this country is that you can choose whatever side you want, even if its completely unconstitutional or anti-natural rights.

    To tell someone to move because someone has "anti-natural rights" can only come from someone who doesnt know the foundation and success of our country.
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