Muliculturism has Failed

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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    You are really mixing things up. First you point out a statement for how Muslims should think/act from it's book, then I point out that you can do the same thing with Christianity and you dodge? Where have I said I speak for all Christians? I've said I have an issue with you speaking for all Muslims (by just pointing out one verse), all blacks (by condemning them for all bad behavior)
    I didn't dodge, they aren't similar arguments. For a Christian to act out the Old Testament would be going AGAINST Jesus' teachings (since it is clearly stated that after Jesus died, the Old Testament was null and void and the New Testament was to be followed), whereas a Muslim is SUPPOSED to act out those things per the Quran.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    My issue with you all along has been your need to put everyone in a category. When you say our cultures don't mix, when you say we should kill all illegals, it's always "the blacks" that come out with a response like that, black people keep kids from learning, etc you are ALWAYS going to be wrong. For the simple fact that you've taken a huge population and said "this is how they act." It's false from the get go. You keep IGNORING this flatly. Some blacks are violent, some hispanics are violent, some white people are violent (even though you think they wouldn't be without blacks, whites were killing each other before they met black people). Some Muslims are terrorists, some Christians are terrorists.
    Obviously my "kill all illegals" was an overexaggeration, but a repeat offender illegal alien should be dealt with HARSHLY to deter further and future criminality. If only 1/100 (I'm making this proportion up) made my arguement false, it would still be worthwhile to take steps to negate the effects of the other 99/100 I was correct in depicting. Some Muslims are terrorists because the Quran tells them to do so, and they terrorize in the NAME OF ALLAH! Terrorists who terrorize in the name of Christianity would be wrong because no where in Christianity does it provide for these acts (unless you are completely disregarding the New Testament, which is the current Covenant between us and God). Sure Whites were killing each other before black people. But we had NO WHERE NEAR the number of violent crime incidents that we had after blacks. Keep in mind who invented the drive-by shooting...White people had curs and guns long before the drive by was invented.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    All I ever asked for you to point out was how you could say we need to segregate based on a small percentage of people acting a certain way. I don't think we should get rid of Christianity merely because some people kill in it's name anymore than I think Columbine shouldn't have let white kids go to school because a few crazy white kids lost it.
    Never said WE need to do anything. Just that if people that shared MY viewpoints wanted to segregate OURSELVES in our communities, we should be afforded the opportunity to do so. That ideology doesn't have to involve you in any way, but should you decide in the future you wanted to stick with your own, that opportunity should be afforded to you as well. No one has the right to tell me that I cannot choose who my neighbors are. Name ONE person that has killed in the name of Christianity in recent history? And don't name the Norway shooter, as he was killing his political enemies (and it is HIGHLY debatable that he was religious at all given facebook page postings and his manifesto that stated he was agnostic). I really don't see how you can't make the connection between TARGETING a specific type of person to victimize and random attacks, and the different means of protecting yourself from being that victim. If someone is targeting you, you should do something to protect yourself. It it is truly random, there is very little you can do to protect yourself. Columbine victims were random. Norway shooter's victims were racially random, but targeted politically.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    Your targeting argument is BS at its heart. A very small amount of people target others because of their race. Some of these people are black, some are white. A very small amount of Christians and Muslims are terrorists. Yet you consistently want to group everyone in the same category.
    I've shown several hundreds of black people that have targeted Whites recently in these postings, and that's just touching the surface. And again, show me a single terrorist who admitted to, or left enough evidence to prove that he was acting in the name of Christianity
    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    As for the baby argument, I don't think the state should tell a woman what to do with her body. I think when life begins is very much up for debate.
    Democrats used to say the same about slaves and how many it took to equal one person for voting purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    As for your "respect" of blacks, you say that but you're pretty quick to dismiss everything as their fault. I've been to many other areas in my life and taught in a school that was inner city. And wouldn't you know it, NOT ALL BLACKS ACTED THE SAME. Shocking huh? If you respect blacks it seems to be about as much as I respect the rights of flies. But usually racist people (excuse me, people becoming racist) like to say things like "no I don't hate blacks, I just wish they were all gone!"
    I do respect blacks and their accomplishments, especially the ones that become very successful! I do not dismiss everything as their fault, no where even CLOSE to everything!!! But crime (especially violent crime) is much more substantial in the black arena. And you know how I know I don't hate black people? Because when I come across them in public, I smile at them and say "hi!", and I am perfectly capable of carrying on pleasant conversations with them. We even joke around (I know, I know, hard to believe)! But I also have my guard elevated with an increased emphasis on situational awareness. My distrust for their CULTURE does not equate to any level of HATRED, and to say otherwise is incredibly ignorant!

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    And that is my last post in this thread. Good luck with the all white society. The rest of us will be living in 2011 while you reminisce about 1940.
    Well, I'm sure you won't believe me, but it was nice debating these ideas with you. These are conversations I wish we could have all had a decade ago, and perhaps things wouldn't have gotten as bad as they are today. Have a great day.
    --Brian

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    Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You really shouldn't ignore that link.

    Of course you can say they weren't acting as true Christians, but the point was many people kill in the name of religion. Many Muslims don't kill (remmeber the faith has over 1 billion people) despite you saying the book tells them to. Obviously they aren't interpreting it that way. The same thing with the Bible. You can talk about ignoring different parts or those people weren't Christians, but that's making excuses. Clearly some people INTERPRET parts of the Bible and use it for what society would say are evil intentions. If you want to just say "well then they aren't Christians"then that's dodging the point I was making.

    Throughout history people have killed because of the books of their faith and people will continue to do so. Whether or not we "claim" them doesn't change that fact in the least bit. Making excuses for them doesn't change it either. People love to justify hate, and throughout history a lot of them have used books of faith.

    Good night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    Throughout history people have killed because of the books of their faith and people will continue to do so. Whether or not we "claim" them doesn't change that fact in the least bit. Making excuses for them doesn't change it either. People love to justify hate, and throughout history a lot of them have used books of faith.
    I will absolutely agree with you there. The point I was getting at is you can't describe someone as a terrorist acting in the name of Christianity when they aren't following the teachings of Christ. That's like an calling an atheist terrorist a Christian because he acted out the Old Testament. Once a Christian acts out the Old Testament when the New Testament replaced the Old one, he ceases to be acting under Christianity and becomes a simple terrorist. Unlike Muslim terrorists, who are following the preachings of the Quran. And while most Muslims are, in fact, very peaceful, it does not negate the fact that Muslim terrorists are, in fact, acting in the name of Islam when they commit atrocities due to the fact that the Quran affords them the opportunity to do so. Otherwise, I will agree in large part with what you said in this post. Religious conflicts are found throughout the world, but as of yet (besides the Crusades), I cannot recall any incidents where a Christian killed anyone in the name of God, and even if they had, it would be false to describe them as Christians because they turned their backs on the true teachings of Christ. Anywho, have a good night, and an even better tomorrow!
    --Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastone View Post
    My question to you is what the hell does this have to do with America seeing as unlike France or Germany, this country was not built by one particular culture.
    I agree
    and the land stolen. amarica was a raped land with people FROM england france ect. from around the place . unless your native your not from the land in my op. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Honestly I think you came into the conversation without reading Brian's original points. If you did then you certainly have seemed to disagree with most of them (as have I). As for my "personal attacks" all I've said is please read a little more carefully. NEVER have I said black on white hate crimes don't happen and this is at least the third time you've said I have. All I have asked is that you quit building up strawmen. Either you haven't been following along with the conversation since it's start (which is what seems) or you haven't been reading carefully. I've questioned your comprehension because you keep saying things I never said.
    Again, brian never said that a majority of black people commit hate crimes. And he's stated he's for voluntary segregation, not forced. Its very much a real constitutional issue. The bill of rights isn't a commandment for individuals, its to limit the government's interference in our lives. Much of his attitude is bad towards blacks, however the same is true of the attitude of a large percentage of blacks towards whites.

    I've quoted you at least 5 times stating that blacks don't commit hate crimes. I'm not sure what else I can do there, its very readable.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Again, where have I argued things like this? I have never said minorities should get preferential treatment. I have merely said Brian appears to be much more discouraged by negative things that happen by blacks than whites. ANY citizen should be angry at crime. Why the hell does the color of their skin matter? If a girl is raped we should be irate whether it was a black, hispanic, white, or any other race. Brian's way actually makes things worse by continuing the wars between people based on their skin color. He says he has no respect for black people, but wants them to respect him. What kind of sense does that make? It makes sense to you for him to say "I'm a racist, I hate black culture, but all I want is them to respect white people."
    And i'll agree brian's attitude doesn't help, but neither does the overwhelming attitude of the black inner city culture. The culture of entitlement, and somehow that white people are what is holding them down when its their own actions that are holding them down. I remember I used to like Alicia Keyes until during one of her live videos she went into a rant on "don't let the white people tell you what you can't do, you can be whatever you want to be". And I don't think he wants black people to even respect him, just leave him alone. His attitude isn't that far off from what you see in a lot of older (60+ now) black people, who experienced really bad racism first hand in their youth, getting spit on at school, being called lazy and stupid just because of their skin color, getting into fights because they talked to a white girl, etc. But we accept that wholeheartedly from them, and feel sorry for them because of it. Why is it that brian's skin not being black doesn't give us the same sympathy for what happened to him?

    And how you can respect that black inner city culture that glorifies "sticking it to the man", abandoning your children, no money for food so you are on food stamps, but money for rims and $150 sneakers, gang banging, etc. there is nothing there to respect. Respect isn't a default, its something you earn.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Really? Honestly, who do you think makes the problem worse? Someone who says society should be separated because black culture has caused all of our problems or someone who says all races commit crimes, we should work to lower the crime committed by all people as I say. I just want your honest opinion. I'm completely opposed to any reverse racism, affirmative action type stuff that continues the cycle of separating expectations of people based on skin color. I would be all for getting rid of hate crimes. I completely agree with you when you say who cares a dead person by a baseball bat is a dead person by a baseball bat.
    Again though, he doesn't say anywhere that segregation should be forced, just that self segregation by the majority should be as accepted as the self segregation of the minorities. Black culture hasn't caused all our problems, but it is a constant source of problems at a percentage far greater than their percentage of population. "He so crazy i'm gonna have his baby" was just a perfect example of that. Thats why I love listening to Bill Cosby


    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    And you've been saying "Brian's not saying that" but then being surprised when I quote him. Go back to page 5. He has said he's racist, said the culture's don't mix, blamed black people for damn near everything, said we should have segregation, etc. Brian couldn't be making it more clear that he despises blacks on the whole. His use of slang terms to talk as apparently all blacks talk is downright disturbing.
    He says he's racist sure. But nowhere does he say he supports or wants enforced segregation, only the same option to self segregate that minorities have. Nowhere does he say a majority of black people commit hate crimes, but that they are more likely to commit non hate as well as hate crimes. He is right though, the cultures don't mix well. A culture based on sponging off others doesn't mix well with any culture of self responsibility. A culture of blaming others rather than looking to yourself doesn't blend well with any other cultures. Whats interesting is that you see the hispanic culture blending in far better - because there is a stronger family bond, there is more self responsibility, there is more families helping each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Actually Christians have used the OLD testament for all sorts of actions. So you're allowed to pick and choose what you want from the Qur'an, but you say all Christians ignore the bad parts of the Bible? Interesting how that works. You also just skipped over the Christian terrorist link. Clearly not ALL Christians are interpreting the Bible as you are.

    Luckily not only can you speak for how all blacks act, but now you know how all Christians act. Damn you're good.

    And ooopsie, the New Testament promotes violence as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_violence

    But I know all of that is interpretation which people will use differently. Clearly my parents haven't interpreted those verses as to be evil just as many Muslims haven't interpreted the Quaran to do violence. Once again when YOU paint all people in broad brush strokes you will always be wrong.
    don't get me started on religion. its worse than racism.
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    Another fun piece on how the black community does it to itself...

    A top lawmaker in the Congressional Black Caucus says tea partiers on Capitol Hill would like to see African-Americans hanging from trees and accuses the movement of wishing for a return to the Jim Crow era.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1WcgPIdoM


    I know black tea party members (i'm not a member myself). Somehow challenging entitlements is racist to the black political leaders, just the same was as despising Obama as a presidential candidate for his stance, his lack of experience and lack of record was racist in 2008. If this is the sort of crap black leaders spout, how can things move forwards?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    I know black tea party members (i'm not a member myself). Somehow challenging entitlements is racist to the black political leaders, just the same was as despising Obama as a presidential candidate for his stance, his lack of experience and lack of record was racist in 2008. If this is the sort of crap black leaders spout, how can things move forwards?
    Which is exactly the point I've been trying to make! Until THEY change their rhetoric, I feel it's necessary to distance myself from them (as do many Whites). THAT is the culture THEY have created, and as such, it does not mix with mine (and it is, in fact, an ASSAULT on my culture). It's just crazy to hear this kind of crap from BLACK leaders, and then say "Oh, I think they're just foolin'. I'm gonna go hang out with these people and hope they're not serious because I don't believe they're racist and every race has criminals, etc. etc.", when time and time again these mobs have proven they ARE serious. How many White mobs, numbering in the dozens to hundreds, have we seen recently, ganging up on Whites and beating the **** out of them (breaking eye-sockets/noses/jaws/teeth/assaulting 14-year olds/etc. and/or robbing stores? Personal/family safety is more important to me than Political Correctness BS, and I guess that makes me an outlier!
    --Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post

    I've quoted you at least 5 times stating that blacks don't commit hate crimes. I'm not sure what else I can do there, its very readable.


    And how you can respect that black inner city culture that glorifies "sticking it to the man", abandoning your children, no money for food so you are on food stamps, but money for rims and $150 sneakers, gang banging, etc. there is nothing there to respect. Respect isn't a default, its something you earn.



    don't get me started on religion. its worse than racism.
    I hate coming back into the argument when I said I was done, but honestly Easy you're really annoying me with your twisting of my positions. First off for the millionth time I never said blacks don't commit hate crimes. You haven't quoted it 5 times because I never said it. I have no idea how long you will continue to act as if I said this or who you are mixing me up with. If I said that please make that as the only post. I have NEVER attempted to make that claim NOR apologize for black criminals. And don't post me not saying it and try to twist it around as basically the same thing.

    I don't respect that anymore than I respect white people doing it. Again where do you live? Do you not see tons of teenage white girls growing up without guys to raise their children? The culture is everyone's culture. More now than ever. Blacks, whites, mexicans, asians, they are all into the same stuff or getting that way. They all love the same music. They are watching the same movies. Playing on the same football teams.

    My issue has always been with thinking A: All blacks act this way (which you continue to perpetuate) when you say things like "their culture accepts this." And B: Whites don't do the same thing.

    The simple fact of the matter is that not all blacks are that way, and not all whites ARE NOT that way. You keep trying to say "but they do it more!" as some type of trump card. You should be livid when a guy doesn't support a child. The race of the guy shouldn't matter. You should be livid when someone is raped. The race of the person who raped is irrelevant. You should be livid when children are beaten. The race of the person beating someone is irrelevant. Your arguments sound very much like letting the white people who do these things off the hook or trying to place more blame on the blacks for this. "Well if rap didn't exist this wouldn't have happened." You need to move here so you can see all the white trash a holes who aren't raising their children, the ones smoking meth with no teeth having mentally retarded children, etc. Maybe Brian was right, I need to move so I can see the blacks he is talking about more. Maybe he needs to move so he can see that things aren't quite as great in that European culture he keeps talking about.

    White people rape, murder, steal, beat kids, etc. So do mexicans, so do blacks. It should all anger you. And in a country where you live with mexicans, blacks, mixed races, etc you should do something about it or as I've said go somewhere secluded. Because [B]I think[B] you're pretty messed up if the race of someone who commits a crime is what bothers you and not the fact they committed a crime.

    But the simple fact is all of this stuff thankfully is going down.

    In 1980, Americans suffered 597 violent crimes and 10.2 murders per 100,000 citizens.

    The latest numbers show violent crimes at 429 per 100,000 and murders down to 5 per 100,000.

    And I would say as a part of AMERICAN culture that that's a step in the right direction. Because I'm bothered by the murder of anyone in this country no matter what race they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    I hate coming back into the argument when I said I was done, but honestly Easy you're really annoying me with your twisting of my positions. First off for the millionth time I never said blacks don't commit hate crimes. You haven't quoted it 5 times because I never said it. I have no idea how long you will continue to act as if I said this or who you are mixing me up with. If I said that please make that as the only post. I have NEVER attempted to make that claim NOR apologize for black criminals. And don't post me not saying it and try to twist it around as basically the same thing.
    again, no twist of your positions, quotes of what you said

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    2. YOU CAN'T FIND A STATISTIC TO SUPPORT BLACKS TARGETING WHITES. This makes every other point you have attempted to make moot.
    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Blacks are NOT targeting whites and your statistics don't go anywhere near supporting a statement as preposterous as that.
    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    I don't respect that anymore than I respect white people doing it. Again where do you live? Do you not see tons of teenage white girls growing up without guys to raise their children? The culture is everyone's culture. More now than ever. Blacks, whites, mexicans, asians, they are all into the same stuff or getting that way. They all love the same music. They are watching the same movies. Playing on the same football teams.

    My issue has always been with thinking A: All blacks act this way (which you continue to perpetuate) when you say things like "their culture accepts this." And B: Whites don't do the same thing.
    You are totally off here again, boy talking about twisting positions. Neither brian or I have said anything like either of those. What we've said is that a much greater % of blacks act that way than any other race and that the inner city black culture accepts and even encourages it. Sure some amount of white people do it too (and in raw numbers it likely is greater than the raw numbers of black people who do it), and they are useless sacks of crap who should be wiped from the planet or sterilized and lobotomized as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    The simple fact of the matter is that not all blacks are that way, and not all whites ARE NOT that way. You keep trying to say "but they do it more!" as some type of trump card. You should be livid when a guy doesn't support a child. The race of the guy shouldn't matter. You should be livid when someone is raped. The race of the person who raped is irrelevant. You should be livid when children are beaten. The race of the person beating someone is irrelevant. Your arguments sound very much like letting the white people who do these things off the hook or trying to place more blame on the blacks for this. "Well if rap didn't exist this wouldn't have happened." You need to move here so you can see all the white trash a holes who aren't raising their children, the ones smoking meth with no teeth having mentally retarded children, etc. Maybe Brian was right, I need to move so I can see the blacks he is talking about more. Maybe he needs to move so he can see that things aren't quite as great in that European culture he keeps talking about.
    But the % of them doing it does matter, when its accepted by their culture and ignored by the media or treated as their right. A teenage black girl is more than twice as likely than a teenage white girl to end up pregnant. Thats a serious problem. A black mother is more than 3x as likely as a white mother to be on food stamps, and mothers on food stamps give birth at a higher rate (average 2.6 kids) vs mothers not on food stamps (2.1 kids). These are real problems, real issues, and the race does matter in solving them.

    And it makes a difference when you have common sense in dealing with any individual of any race. It is common sense to be more cautious and guarded in a non-familiar setting when a black man walks up to you than a white man because the odds of the black man robbing, beating or raping you is far higher than the odds of a white man doing it. You've even agreed that all statistics support that, that black men commit crimes at a far higher rate/percentage than white men. Its incomprehensible to me that you feel that should be ignored entirely when actually dealing with people you don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post

    White people rape, murder, steal, beat kids, etc. So do mexicans, so do blacks. It should all anger you. And in a country where you live with mexicans, blacks, mixed races, etc you should do something about it or as I've said go somewhere secluded. Because [B]I think[B] you're pretty messed up if the race of someone who commits a crime is what bothers you and not the fact they committed a crime.

    But the simple fact is all of this stuff thankfully is going down.

    In 1980, Americans suffered 597 violent crimes and 10.2 murders per 100,000 citizens.

    The latest numbers show violent crimes at 429 per 100,000 and murders down to 5 per 100,000.

    And I would say as a part of AMERICAN culture that that's a step in the right direction. Because I'm bothered by the murder of anyone in this country no matter what race they are.
    It all does bother me. But the fact that minorities get a free ride on hate crimes bothers me. The fact that progressives want to try and teach us to feel sorry for how they were raised and excuse them because of that bothers me. The fact that if a black man is shot by a white police officer while running out of an apartment building and the rest of the black people in the apartment complex throw bottles and rocks at the cops and riot bothers me.

    What the cops in LA did to Rodney King was right, and its what i'd expect them to do to me as well in the same situation. When they tell you to stay down, you stay down, not keep trying over and over to get up. But somehow the media decided to try and demonize the cops (and there were black cops doing it too!) and started the race riots and all the damage that ensued, and demonstrated to black people that "its your right to resist arrest, and expect to cash out on a huge lawsuit if anything happens when you do". And I find that totally ridiculous.

    Again these are issues with the city black culture, and I'm guessing in Kansas where you say most of the teens have never seen a black person, you don't see much of this. But around any of the big cities, where the majority of the US population lives its quite different than corn + cow fields. Watch the Bill Cosby video above, he's one of the few people to be honest and direct about it.
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    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/shoc...hetes-to-kids/

    Apparently, the Black Panthers Leader Samir Shabazz feels it's necessary to teach a group of blacks children "survival tactics" w/ loaded guns and machetes, while telling them to feel free to empty a whole magazine into an already disabled "assailant" (and I use the term "assailant" loosely, given the fact that you are White means you are an "assailant" to a Black Panther). Shabazz was also one of the people caught on video intimidating White voters in Philadelphia 2008, although Eric "my people" Holder decided to not file any charges, even though Shabazz was in possession of a weapon and threatening voters...But I'm just crazy to think there is an element of anti-White sentiment found in society today (as well as the media)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazz (Leader of New Black Panthers)
    The next set of scenarios deal with how to use a machete to defend against a baseball bat-wielding attacker. Shabazz and his assistant mime a bat and machete fight, and Shabazz locks his assistant in position. “Now, I can either go for his fingers and cut his fingers straight off or I can go straight for his wrist,” he says. Following through with the knife’s momentum in slow motion, Shabazz demonstrates how he can cut right through his attacker, then holds his head from behind, exposing his neck, and mimes decapitating him. “And I can hold his head up high just like that,” he says triumphantly. “Black power,” an audience member says.
    Yep, I'm the bigot. I'm the racist. Had I held a Self-Defense seminar for White people, and someone in the audience yelled "White power", I'd probably be in jail/dead right now, accompanied by a race-riot and 24/7 news coverage telling all about how my entire bloodline of descendants were slave owners and racists. My entire family would be harassed 24/7 by black vandals and mobs, as well as journalists. OUR lives would be ruined! The entire news-media-world would harp on how sorry they were that SOME White people owned slaves an INCREDIBLY LONG TIME AGO (who were sold by their fellow Africans in the first place), and that they were VOLUNTARILY enrolling ALL of their employees in mandatory "sensitivity training". Now if you combine this article with the Congressional Black Caucus' recent violent rhetoric, it almost seems as if the scene is being set for some kind of media-approved, nationwide racial "incident"...doesn't it!?!
    --Brian
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    I'd say that is quite the stretch Easy. It has been OBVIOUS from my posts that when talking about "targeting" whites I mean on a large scale. If you are accepting that because hate crimes exist then blacks are targeting whites then because hate crimes exist whites are targeting blacks. My MAIN point throughout this has been don't let the actions of the few dictate what you think about the many. So when he repeatedly said targeting I said show me the majority are doing this. A simple proposition if you aren't going to say "a small amount of blacks or a small amount of whites." I was always talking in big terms and that should have been obvious. You're trying to cherrypick pretty hard with that quote.

    What you've said and what Brian has said are two pretty different things. You keep trying to drag him into the "saner" side of the argument. Again, he's said it's "their culture" that blacks are targeting whites, etc. times a million. When you don't use terms like some blacks or some whites then you're talking on a whole scale which is stupid. Like I've said before you're wrong when you make generalizations about whole groups of people. This is what leads idiots to believe things like "all Muslims are terrorists." No, you let the actions of a few dictate your thoughts about the population of people on the whole. And you KNOW that's asinine at best.

    Again I've been around a lot of the country so don't make your judgements about me based on where I currently live. That doesn't strengthen your arguments anymore than your issues with me being a teacher. As I already mentioned I've taught in a school that was predominantly black. I'm a little confused why you're so quick to make judgments about someone you don't know based on information like "I teach" and I live in Kansas.


    My issue has from the beginning to the end been about Brian making these large scale generalizations and how wrong I think people are always going to be when made. That's the only reason I got involved with the argument. That has been ignored time and time again while you've tried to pull what he's said in line with what you've said. Honestly I really don't think both of you are arguing the same thing no matter how often you try to say you are.
    Just because more white people rape than black people doesn't make my statement any more stupid if I say "well I'm telling my daughter to avoid all whites because that's who she is most likely to be raped by."

    Again, society is better off when you try to reduce the number of rapists. Society is worse off when you place people in categories based on skin color, blame them for problems based on skin color, etc.


    Also I don't know when we decided to start trying to throw a bunch of youtube appeals to emotion in and consider them hard evidence. I have no desire to start looking up white supremacy groups to show you that whites are doing the same thing. And I think the whites who hate blacks are every bit as crazy as the blacks who hate whites.I've never thought the words of lunatics were worth listening to. But if you want to get started try Aryan Nation, National Alliance, Klan groups, and White Revolution. That should provide you with some fun reading.

    Then again, most of the people I know who really don't like blacks at all love to tell you how they AREN'T racist. "I hate n******" So you're racist? "Don't you call me racist, I knew a black guy once!"

    But I'll try and get out again. This is going nowhere fast and seems to be destined to become a youtube collection for angry white guys.
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    Also I don't get the whole because they are racist I should be racist argument in the least bit. I don't know where you and Easy are going with it, but you've both argued that way. It seems really childish. Well, he's being racist...but, but, but so are some black people so it's right!

    Uhmm, ok?
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    I will absolutely agree with you there. The point I was getting at is you can't describe someone as a terrorist acting in the name of Christianity when they aren't following the teachings of Christ. That's like an calling an atheist terrorist a Christian because he acted out the Old Testament. Once a Christian acts out the Old Testament when the New Testament replaced the Old one, he ceases to be acting under Christianity and becomes a simple terrorist. Unlike Muslim terrorists, who are following the preachings of the Quran. And while most Muslims are, in fact, very peaceful, it does not negate the fact that Muslim terrorists are, in fact, acting in the name of Islam when they commit atrocities due to the fact that the Quran affords them the opportunity to do so. Otherwise, I will agree in large part with what you said in this post. Religious conflicts are found throughout the world, but as of yet (besides the Crusades), I cannot recall any incidents where a Christian killed anyone in the name of God, and even if they had, it would be false to describe them as Christians because they turned their backs on the true teachings of Christ. Anywho, have a good night, and an even better tomorrow!
    --Brian
    Again I think this is making excuses. It would be JUST as easy for Muslims to say well they aren't acting out the true Muslim faith. The idea that "horrible thing happened and said it was because of Bible" and then someone says "well they weren't really following the Bible" doesn't change the fact. The Bible AND the Quaran have inspired many people to kill. If you want to say well a true Christian wouldn't have done that it doesn't change that fact.

    I was raised Methodist, and been to a Catholic and Baptist Church. And they all have had readings from the Old Testament. MANY Christians still buy the basis of God making the world, the story of Noah, etc. This idea that all Christians are only reading and believing the New Testament is demonstrably false.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    Also I don't know when we decided to start trying to throw a bunch of youtube appeals to emotion in and consider them hard evidence. I have no desire to start looking up white supremacy groups to show you that whites are doing the same thing. And I think the whites who hate blacks are every bit as crazy as the blacks who hate whites.
    Actually, those links are to NEWS articles, not youtube videos. There may be a video linked in, but it is an actually news. If you don't care to investigate those links, then I guess our debate would be over. And I challenge you to find a single White Supremacy group that has the support of the national media and Congressional White Caucus (as if that could EVER exist in this "post-racial" society...) and an extremely large base of White people, as the New Black Panther party has in every major inner-city with blacks. The Congressional Black Caucus is not a group of racist redneck hicks, but rather, elected officials that are SUPPOSED to be representing the ENTIRE district, INCLUDING White people, and yet they continuously divide their districts and completely disregard White people!

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    Just because more white people rape than black people doesn't make my statement any more stupid if I say "well I'm telling my daughter to avoid all whites because that's who she is most likely to be raped by."
    Well now we're getting somewhere! If a statistically significant percentage of the rapist population were White, would you warn your daughter to avoid White areas filled with White people? Because that's the issue here...1.2% of the total population become assault victims in the United States in 2002. The majority (67%) of those offenders were black (leaving Mexicans, Whites, Asians/Orientals, and Others to commit the other 33%)! Out of the 3.38 million assault victims, ~1.11 million were by Whites, and 2.26 million were by blacks (2.036 times more than Whites, yet the black population is only 20% the size of the White population)! THERE WAS ONLY 36.4 MILLION BLACKS IN THIS COUNTRY, and 216.9 million Whites!!! That means 6.2% of the black population were VIOLENT CRIMINALS (2.26 million black assault perpetrators / 36.4 million blacks), while .5% of the White population were violent criminals (1.11 million White assault perpetrators / 216.9 million Whites) .

    I want the freedom to avoid them until they get their act together!!! They are 12.4 times more violent than Whites, and at least I (unlike traditional racists) attribute it to a violent cultural shift a significant percentage of blacks have been embarking upon, leaving open the possibility of changing our racial climate for the better so that I can feel more comfortable associating with them. Why are you having a hard time understanding this!?! And as far as targeting Whites, I have posted far more evidence to prove my point than the blacks provide to "prove" Whites are "keeping them down". I have MORE than met the burden-of-proof standard as set by THEM, and if you choose to deny the facts, that's your prerogative. But it's just crazy to think that I'm the one that is out of line here.
    --Brian
    P.S.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/country/...ates/cri-crime
    http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-4.pdf
    http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    Again I think this is making excuses. It would be JUST as easy for Muslims to say well they aren't acting out the true Muslim faith. The idea that "horrible thing happened and said it was because of Bible" and then someone says "well they weren't really following the Bible" doesn't change the fact. The Bible AND the Quaran have inspired many people to kill. If you want to say well a true Christian wouldn't have done that it doesn't change that fact.
    Except that the CURRENT Muslim text agrees with CURRENT terrorist actions...the bible does not. In fact, the CURRENT bible (current as of the death of Jesus, so it's been a while since the Old Testament was the CURRENT text) says to NOT be a terrorist!!! If a Christian commits terrorist acts, he is acting alone and without the consent of ANYONE IN THE CHURCH, whereas a Muslim has the approval of the entire religion given that he is following the CURRENT text of that same religion (as I have said, their CURRENT text states to stone Homosexuals, among many of the ways women are treated/Shariah law)!
    --Brian
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    While I'm not trying to say this by any means accounts for everything, let's not act as if people have a great history of being fair in terms of what would get reported/called assault. (Two parter). If you're not willing to account biases for at least some of the difference then you're not being intellectually honest.

    Cliffs notes: White kids commit crime in front of people for hours almost no one calls the police. Black kids commit same crime in front of people tons of people call the police immediately, including a person who calls in reporting a potential black robbery from seeing three blacks sleeping.

    If you think these types of incidents are rare, you're nuts. I know where I'm from with our limited black population a few of them loitering outside the street in backwards caps people are taking notice. You change that to three white kids and ain't a damn person paying attention. Let's face it, sometimes a rich white teen commits a crime and gets away with a "boys will be boys" while the same black kid commits it and it's juvy time.


    Let's not forget things like name racism which partially keeps black unemployed leading to more crime. Obviously if we could improve the lot of a lot of these people's lives they would be less likely to make destructive decisions. Basically what I try to do with my "white kids" every day that have had a rough upbringing. Give them an education and the means to not make the same mistakes their parents made. Good luck with yours (being sincere). If you think avoiding all black people based on the actions of some is the best way to raise your kids then go for it. I'll still think it's wrong, but we aren't changing either others minds and like I said it's getting really circular.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNu-W..._order&list=UL

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_names_and_racism_in_the_ hiring_process



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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    Except that the CURRENT Muslim text agrees with CURRENT terrorist actions...the bible does not. In fact, the CURRENT bible (current as of the death of Jesus, so it's been a while since the Old Testament was the CURRENT text) says to NOT be a terrorist!!! If a Christian commits terrorist acts, he is acting alone and without the consent of ANYONE IN THE CHURCH, whereas a Muslim has the approval of the entire religion given that he is following the CURRENT text of that same religion (as I have said, their CURRENT text states to stone Homosexuals, among many of the ways women are treated/Shariah law)!
    --Brian
    What do you mean "CURRENT" Bible?! Go to a hotel. The Old Testament is freaking in the one in the room. Those words are in the texts of Christians. What people do with the words is up to them. You know a LOT of Christians want us teaching creationism right? Where is that found again? The part you think everyone isn't reading?

    Hell they recently made a MOVIE with scenes about Noah's Ark. Evan Almighty. And I don't think all the Christians who saw it were like "where the hell does it talk about this Noah stuff?"

    You saying "ah no real Christian would do that" would be exactly like a non-violent Muslim saying "no true Muslim would commit that violence." It's the EXACT same thing. Besides, people are always going to do with the words what they want. They will simply use the book as an excuse for their hate.

    Let's see what the Westboro Baptist Church thinks is really said in the Bible:

    http://www.godhates***s.com/reports/...eryone-lie.pdf

    Still don't believe people can twist the words into whatever the hell they want?

    How about this blog from them. http://blogs.sparenot.com/

    Clearly they aren't reading what you are reading in the Bible. If you want to say they aren't real Christians go ahead...but many Muslims are going to say the same thing about those behind 9/11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Christian terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You really shouldn't ignore that link.

    Of course you can say they weren't acting as true Christians, but the point was many people kill in the name of religion. Many Muslims don't kill (remmeber the faith has over 1 billion people) despite you saying the book tells them to. Obviously they aren't interpreting it that way. The same thing with the Bible. You can talk about ignoring different parts or those people weren't Christians, but that's making excuses. Clearly some people INTERPRET parts of the Bible and use it for what society would say are evil intentions. If you want to just say "well then they aren't Christians"then that's dodging the point I was making.

    Throughout history people have killed because of the books of their faith and people will continue to do so. Whether or not we "claim" them doesn't change that fact in the least bit. Making excuses for them doesn't change it either. People love to justify hate, and throughout history a lot of them have used books of faith.

    Good night.
    They usually do. You are 1 of about 3 moderate/liberals on this site, including myself. I learned from the beginning to stay clear of these threads, it goes no where fast. It's always the same faces creating threads like...black vs white? I have a better question, it's 2011 - who gives a f#@k?
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    What do you mean "CURRENT" Bible?! Go to a hotel. The Old Testament is freaking in the one in the room. Those words are in the texts of Christians. What people do with the words is up to them. You know a LOT of Christians want us teaching creationism right? Where is that found again? The part you think everyone isn't reading?
    When I say "Current" Bible, I mean that the Bible is divided amongst two different Covenants between God and the Jews (Old Testament and New Testament), and BOTH are printed in the same bible (the Old Testament is included to provide historical context for the New Testament). The Old Testament was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified, thus beginning the New Testament, which is the CURRENT covenant between us and God. That is why the New Testament is the book to live by, and not the Old Testament. Calling the Westboro Baptist Church...a church...is in itself wrong because nowhere in the Bible does it say what they've said. Anyone can make something up and attribute it to an interpretation of the Bible, and by your definition, be called a Christian terrorist! By your definition, an atheist could be a Christian Terrorist! But the only thing consistent is that no Muslim would be surprised by Muslim violence, since the Quran specifically lays out rules for COMMITING VIOLENCE, and the New Testament does not. Any "Christian" commiting terrorist acts citing the Old Testament might as well be called a Muslim (it would actually be more fitting, since the Quran IS modeled after the Old Testament). It is other people attributing names to describe a person, and for some reason they are called Christians when they are in NO way following Christ's teachings! Why not simply call them crazy?!? Now if a person commited terrorist acts from the NEW TESTAMENT (like a Muslim would do with their Quran in it's entirety), then it would be perfectly acceptable to call them Christian terrorists, since the New Testament is the book we live by.
    --Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi
    While I'm not trying to say this by any means accounts for everything, let's not act as if people have a great history of being fair in terms of what would get reported/called assault. (Two parter). If you're not willing to account biases for at least some of the difference then you're not being intellectually honest.
    Tell ya what! I'm feeling generous. I'll account for that by 1% (which is, in itself, DOUBLE that for Whites), and blacks are STILL 5.2%! THAT is a cultural problem, and THAT is what I've been getting at this whole time.
    --Brian
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    They usually do. You are 1 of about 3 moderate/liberals on this site, including myself. I learned from the beginning to stay clear of these threads, it goes no where fast. It's always the same faces creating threads like...black vs white? I have a better question, it's 2011 - who gives a f#@k?
    Lol, I've never really thought of myself as a liberal, but I guess if you're against segregation you're a liberal on AB. Agreed, it's 2011, not 1940.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diablosho View Post
    When I say "Current" Bible, I mean that the Bible is divided amongst two different Covenants between God and the Jews (Old Testament and New Testament), and BOTH are printed in the same bible (the Old Testament is included to provide historical context for the New Testament). The Old Testament was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified, thus beginning the New Testament, which is the CURRENT covenant between us and God. That is why the New Testament is the book to live by, and not the Old Testament. Calling the Westboro Baptist Church...a church...is in itself wrong because nowhere in the Bible does it say what they've said. Anyone can make something up and attribute it to an interpretation of the Bible, and by your definition, be called a Christian terrorist! By your definition, an atheist could be a Christian Terrorist! But the only thing consistent is that no Muslim would be surprised by Muslim violence, since the Quran specifically lays out rules for COMMITING VIOLENCE, and the New Testament does not. Any "Christian" commiting terrorist acts citing the Old Testament might as well be called a Muslim (it would actually be more fitting, since the Quran IS modeled after the Old Testament). It is other people attributing names to describe a person, and for some reason they are called Christians when they are in NO way following Christ's teachings! Why not simply call them crazy?!? Now if a person commited terrorist acts from the NEW TESTAMENT (like a Muslim would do with their Quran in it's entirety), then it would be perfectly acceptable to call them Christian terrorists, since the New Testament is the book we live by.
    --Brian
    So Muslims who do violence are not crazy because the Quran tells them to do that, but Christians who cite the Bible as the reason (with specific verses) they do bad things aren't really Christians to begin with (in fact we may as well call them Muslims).

    Ok, I'll just have to back away from this argument. I think you're in loony toon ville on this.

    Hint: You can't just denounce all Christian terrorism as "not Christian" and not let Muslims do the same thing. At least not without a significant and obvious amount of bias and hypocrisy.

    Double hint: If you look at the WBC you will see they back up most of what they say with interpretations of specific Bible verses. Including many things from the New Testament.

    Just like the amendments are open to interpretation so are our books of faith like it or not. They have been interpreted differently by different people for thousands of years.

    FWIW I'm thankful most people seem to interpret the Bible as you do, just like I'm thankful most Muslims are peaceful people. I'm not trying to say let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch in this regard anymore than I am with blacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    What you've said and what Brian has said are two pretty different things. You keep trying to drag him into the "saner" side of the argument. Again, he's said it's "their culture" that blacks are targeting whites, etc. times a million. When you don't use terms like some blacks or some whites then you're talking on a whole scale which is stupid. Like I've said before you're wrong when you make generalizations about whole groups of people. This is what leads idiots to believe things like "all Muslims are terrorists." No, you let the actions of a few dictate your thoughts about the population of people on the whole. And you KNOW that's asinine at best.My issue has from the beginning to the end been about Brian making these large scale generalizations and how wrong I think people are always going to be when made. That's the only reason I got involved with the argument. That has been ignored time and time again while you've tried to pull what he's said in line with what you've said. Honestly I really don't think both of you are arguing the same thing no matter how often you try to say you are.
    if you drew a venn diagram, he and I would have some overlap, but not a ton.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Just because more white people rape than black people doesn't make my statement any more stupid if I say "well I'm telling my daughter to avoid all whites because that's who she is most likely to be raped by."
    But if she were to go out with 1 black man, or 1 white man, she's more than twice as likely to get raped by the black man.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Again, society is better off when you try to reduce the number of rapists. Society is worse off when you place people in categories based on skin color, blame them for problems based on skin color, etc.
    but when the culture of a group encourages and accepts bad activity and you ignore that, society doesn't get any better off as you'll reduce the number of rapists, violence, etc in the other segments of society not in that cultural group. Because how do you reduce the number of criminals? incarceration, death penalty and cultural change. A black culture whose leaders still today in 2011 (as the clip from the Black Congressional Caucus members shows) call for racism, call for violence and don't address the flaws within their own culture surely won't be modified by the white culture they revile.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Also I don't know when we decided to start trying to throw a bunch of youtube appeals to emotion in and consider them hard evidence. I have no desire to start looking up white supremacy groups to show you that whites are doing the same thing. And I think the whites who hate blacks are every bit as crazy as the blacks who hate whites.I've never thought the words of lunatics were worth listening to. But if you want to get started try Aryan Nation, National Alliance, Klan groups, and White Revolution. That should provide you with some fun reading.
    you really should watch the bill cosby one, if you've never heard him talking other than comedy before. And again, a huge difference between some looney bird in alabama with half his teeth saying things, and 4 members of congress saying them.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Then again, most of the people I know who really don't like blacks at all love to tell you how they AREN'T racist. "I hate n******" So you're racist? "Don't you call me racist, I knew a black guy once!"
    I'll admit on average I don't particularly like "american" black families who have been here more than 4 generations, at least not the young members. Theres a generational spot (today around 35-50 years old) where I've met plenty I like. Younger than that seems a majority are too bought into the "thug life/pants on the ground" life to waste my time with, older than that and they (somewhat rightfully) tend to be among the most racist people on the planet. The older ones got to experience some of the worst racism outside of Hitler's Germany though, so it is hard to blame them. Getting spit on at school, or getting your ass beat because you spoke to a white girl is bound to leave some psychological marks.

    Quote Originally Posted by seccsi View Post
    Also I don't get the whole because they are racist I should be racist argument in the least bit. I don't know where you and Easy are going with it, but you've both argued that way. It seems really childish. Well, he's being racist...but, but, but so are some black people so it's right!

    Uhmm, ok?
    Its not a case of he's racist so its ok for brian to be racist. Its a case of "society accepts and approves of his racism, why shouldn't it feel the same about brian's" Its about the culture of allowing and accepting that which somehow through the efforts of progressives has workout out to in many ways a disadvantaged majority. If we were to stop accepting racism from minorities, i'd be all for not accepting it from brian.


    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw23 View Post
    They usually do. You are 1 of about 3 moderate/liberals on this site, including myself. I learned from the beginning to stay clear of these threads, it goes no where fast. It's always the same faces creating threads like...black vs white? I have a better question, it's 2011 - who gives a f#@k?
    You're right who that has any sense gives a crap? I don't. From all that i've written and said i'm sure the liberals don't believe me, but my wife is hispanic, and i've got more male black friends than white ones. I'm rarely at a get-together or party where being white isn't being in the minority, and I enjoy it thoroughly, particularly all the different foods from different cultures. But when congressional leaders preach racism and its accepted theres a deep problem and somehow we have to find a way though and past it. I really like Bill Cosby's approach. Its simple, its personal responsibility.
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    I personally don't belong to any organized religion but I think its wrong that no clergy will be at the WTC memorial service because of Multiculturism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    I personally don't belong to any organized religion but I think its wrong that no clergy will be at the WTC memorial service because of Multiculturism.


    Me too...

    I'm not very religious. I personally find it funny that people deny the science that states we descend from apes, yet have no problem accepting the science that made cell phones, MRI devices, anti-venom, microwaves, etc.

    IMHO science has been very right so far, I have no reason to deny my ancestry... even if it's crazy to believe we came from ape sex! I guess the craziest thing of all is to realize just how advanced we are as a species, yet also understand how parasitic we've become. (I've been watching a lot of BBC shows lately)


    Getting back to the point, I find it comforting to believe in something greater than myself or mankind, and the fact that people would like to go pray for the dead... I don't think we need to "science" that away. That any person would like to take time out of his or her day to go remember and pray for the dead... it is a very human gesture, and we should allow it.
    Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you. Encourage me, and I will not forget you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnythestick View Post
    Me too...

    I'm not very religious. I personally find it funny that people deny the science that states we descend from apes, yet have no problem accepting the science that made cell phones, MRI devices, anti-venom, microwaves, etc.

    IMHO science has been very right so far, I have no reason to deny my ancestry... even if it's crazy to believe we came from ape sex! I guess the craziest thing of all is to realize just how advanced we are as a species, yet also understand how parasitic we've become. (I've been watching a lot of BBC shows lately)


    Getting back to the point, I find it comforting to believe in something greater than myself or mankind, and the fact that people would like to go pray for the dead... I don't think we need to "science" that away. That any person would like to take time out of his or her day to go remember and pray for the dead... it is a very human gesture, and we should allow it.
    Agreed. There is no reason that other people being religious should effect/harm/insult anyone within earshot, that disagrees. Much of our country is religious, although I am relatively agnostic I believe that people should be able to do what is comfortable for them within reason. Not praying at WTC memorial is ultimately socially awkward. It wouldn't be normal. Do it at any other memorial service.
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    Just realized I revived the **** out of an old thread. Sorry guys.
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    It's all good man! Don't even worry about it! I personally left this thread a long time ago. Hope all is going well with you buddy!
  

  
 

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