Obama Win!!!

[Vtaper]

It was announced that passengers from 14 countries will now get additional mandatory screening after the Christmas bomber(lone, sexually frustrated "nut"? Nope, radical Muslim) nearly blew up a passenger jet over Detroit.

Take a guess at the countries, you"ll be shocked............not really.

Now doesnt this sound a lot like "Profiling"? I think so, but its implimented by the Obama Adm. so its called "Screening" I love it!!!

This is the right move for Obama and something much easier for the Left to pull off since they decide what is p.c. or not.

Full article:US Airport Security | Additional Screening | 14 Countries' Travellers | Pakistan | Afghan - Oneindia News

 

[DAdams91982]

We should have been profiling all along. The PC crap really is shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[suncloud]

the nifty thing about not having a white president is we can get away with what seems like direct racism, because someone within that race ordered it.

personally, i get screened every time i enter this country, even if i'm the only person on the plane that speaks english (i fly to costa rica, malaysia, canada every year). the joy of being half white half indian gives me this privilidge.

personally, i like how there's a token "white" guy in line, to "prove" there's no profiling.

 

[CopyCat]

They should profile the hell out of people, both racial and religious... and I really don't care how that sounds. We should be looking at how Israel does their $hit. I mean, they still get to eat with REAL silverware, knives and all and they haven't had a terrorist hijacking in how long? When flying into Israel you can't just fly any charter, you have to fly Israeli, even if that means transferring somewhere outside of Israel first. They have highly trained personnel on board, capable of handling bad situations. When flying out of Israel you have to be their waaaay earlier than we do here and the second you walk in you are already being profiled and background checks run on you. This way by the time you board they know exactly who you are and/or if you pose a threat. Also, if they suspect civilian planes have been hijacked or are being used as a terrorist medium they will and have launched fighter jets to intercept. They don't play around, and it works.

 

[dg806]

Hmm, can police start "scanning" again?

 

[dpfisher]

personally, i like how there's a token "white" guy in line, to "prove" there's no profiling.

It's me. EVERY TIME

 

[suncloud]

It's me. EVERY TIME

we should travel together

 

[JudoJosh]

What really got me when I heard about this... I was watching morning news and they were talking about how this happened and what we are doing to ensure it wont happen again... they then proceed to say the following changes are to take effect
1. No going to the bathroom 1hr before landing
2. No blankets, labtops, or anything covering or concealing your lap
3. No access to your overhead compartment 1hr prior to landing
4. Are considering just eliminating carry ons all together
And now we are soupposed to feel safe again right?

Now the whole time Im thinking WTF does this gotta do with anything?!?!? How does this make us feel safer? None of these new rules would have prevented him from getting on the plane with a bomb in the first place. All these new rules do is punish everyone else and do nothing to prvent it from happening again.

Itsnice to hear now they are actually looking at ways to prevent the bomb and terrorist from getting on the plane... profileing is a necessaity and should be done. Why get mad for gettick checked or pulled over if you have nothing to hide?

I am spanish and in my teen years used to be in the whole import game with the honda lowered with exhaust and rims and all that and used to get pulled over constantly!!! But I was registered, insured, seatbelt on, everything legit so no tickets, so they would pull me over and after I was clean let me go. Was I mad? No... Why wasnt I? Because with this import honda culture ALOT of car theifs car on with cars like this... so if my car gets stolen I pray a cop would profile and pull somene over and it happen to be my stolen car.. ... Just like at the airport. I will take off my shoes socks.. sheet even underwear no problem.. why? Cuz I want to make sure I am not gonna blow up on my way to disney world. People need to wake up and realize.

 

[suncloud]

i think racial profiling is completely necessary..espaecially when most of the time 9/10 the profiling is correct....

absolutely true. however, i do take offense when there's something sticking out of the persons bag in front of me that they did not declare, the customs agent removed said item that they lied about on their declaration form, and then told they can go ahead and move on, without getting the rest of their bags checked. then they pull me over to get checked. i wouldn't mind wasting the extra 90 minutes of my life while they went through all my personal belongings (they are entitled to), but please for the love of God, also search the guy in front of me who was carrying something illegal and lied. this has happened to me more than once, and i always wonder "what other illegal items are in that bag, that was never checked?"

What really got me when I heard about this... I was watching morning news and they were talking about how this happened and what we are doing to ensure it wont happen again... they then proceed to say the following changes are to take effect
1. No going to the bathroom 1hr before landing
2. No blankets, labtops, or anything covering or concealing your lap
3. No access to your overhead compartment 1hr prior to landing
4. Are considering just eliminating carry ons all together
And now we are soupposed to feel safe again right?

Now the whole time Im thinking WTF does this gotta do with anything?!?!? How does this make us feel safer? None of these new rules would have prevented him from getting on the plane with a bomb in the first place.

that's what we should be concerned about. jebus, put it on remote detonator, and store it overhead..... seriously, the reason we're in this problem, is we assume terrorists are dumb, and we enforce rules 1-4 to make people think that we're doing a better job than we are.

/end gripe.

 

[CopyCat]

However, Judo... I believe they have recanted a few of thos rediculous new rules... i.e the Bathroom etc. Or the 1hr deal is only for income international flights... which I could concede a little ground albeit just a little. The true intentions behind this I believe is to prevent the plane if it were blown up or used as any kind of terrorist median from happening over US soil, there for it's just a blown up plane with a 100 or so passengers instead of the towers (I know, I know.. I said I would begrudge only a little ground, not that it made total sense).

On another note, the night those first restrictions hit the news I went to TSA's website and wrote them a letter and they did respond to me via email.

 

[CDB]

I wonder how the implementation will be handled. Yes, it's a good move in theory. But we're talking about people who previously thought it was reasonable to strip search wheelchair-bound eighty year old grand mothers from Tulsa while some guy with a name like Abu Mabu Bomba Da Fuggin Plane Aziz with smoke coming out of his pants holding on to his balls like he'll never see them again moves through security without so much as a second look, and all to avoid unPC profiling charges. I seriously doubt this will be implemented with the barest amount of competence.

 

[JudoJosh]

I feel like those new rules they talked about were pointless and just to make us FEEL safe, and the sad part is it works. People were watching it in the breakroom and btching about how its gonna suck to fly and someone says "well at least we wont have to worry about this happening again" and I look at them and just think are these people this retarded?? Like I previously said none of those would have prevented him from being on that plane in the first place. I guess they cant go on the news and say they are gonna beef up security and check more suspicious passengers or pay more attentition at the xray scanners because then they would be admiting fault that they didnt do their job checking the person.

In reality I think the fault lies within the airport. How many times have I seen an article written by some d-bag who was able to get past security with a fake ID and with a knife or fake gun or whatever just to prove a point and write about it. Airport security is a joke, you go to the airport and you can see NO ONE is paying attention! Copycat I kno you fly alot what do you think about our airport security? Yea there is a bunch of check points but they are just sitting around laughing joking gossiping and just pushing people through without even looking up. But God forbid you have a water bottle on you, thats 1 thing they notice and even then not so much. I left philly airport to mexico and had a water botle in my backpack and no one noticed. Honestly I forgot I had it and didnt realize it till we were on the plane. Leaving mexico security was ALOT tougher though..

But still people need to focus on how he got on the plane in the first place not what measures they can do to prevent it from exploding. Racial/religious profiling NEEDS to happen in my opinion. Hey if their is a new tattoo terroist set that starts attacking people and I have my sleeve done, then by all means search my a$$

 

[CDB]

Judo,

It's the same reason all the same people 'felt safer' when guys with M16s were in the airports right after 9/11. Just in case some mad arab with a bomb or bio weapon decided to storm the gate to get on a plane, they'd take him down...

All you're ever going to get from the state is organized imbecility. They'll institute rules, **** will still happen, institute more rules, etc., etc., etc. It's the perfect example of how the state functions, the lack of accountability and effectiveness, and why it shouldn't be trusted. Doesn't even matter who is in charge, the **** ups will continue. And one day another plane will go BOOM and some dip**** in the security department will say, "But how can that be, we don't serve steak anymore...?" And be honestly baffled as to why their directive to ban all red meat from airplanes didn't result is safer skies.

 

[lmaiuri]

Judo,

It's the same reason all the same people 'felt safer' when guys with M16s were in the airports right after 9/11. Just in case some mad arab with a bomb or bio weapon decided to storm the gate to get on a plane, they'd take him down...

All you're ever going to get from the state is organized imbecility. They'll institute rules, **** will still happen, institute more rules, etc., etc., etc. It's the perfect example of how the state functions, the lack of accountability and effectiveness, and why it shouldn't be trusted. Doesn't even matter who is in charge, the **** ups will continue. And one day another plane will go BOOM and some dip**** in the security department will say, "But how can that be, we don't serve steak anymore...?" And be honestly baffled as to why their directive to ban all red meat from airplanes didn't result is safer skies.

Not for nothing, but how many terrorists have successfully taken down a U.S. aircraft after 9/11? None. How many terrorist attacks have occurred on U.S. soil post 9/11? None. Fighting an enemy that uses cowardice, women, and children as modes of destruction honestly leaves us with no other choice but to think of every measure possible and seal it water tight.
If you have a better idea of how to secure our civilians then by all means please expel your knowledge on us. Otherwise don't criticize those who make sure your relatives are safe on their flights to visit you on the holidays or vice versa. Everyone loves to criticize the government but no one wants to offer any solutions to back it up. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. And as for your terminology of "organized imbecility", which could have been substituted with "stupidity" for the sake of conciseness and lack of jargon bullsh!t fettering your argument; this "organized imbecility" has proven to provide some of the best living standards in the world for its citizens. This "organized imbecility" has proven to be the most successful government structure since the Roman Empire. Go live in Europe if you want to badmouth airport security you ****!ing moron, its not their fault anyway. Its the fault of the CIA and the FBI for not keeping an eye on these terrorists clowns and making sure they don't step foot aboard an airplane. Honest Americans make a living doing all they can to protect your fellow Americans as they travel and you come up with some childish line about banning red steak and an airplane exploding, (granted it was for emphasis) but please don't be as ignorant as you have come across with that post

 

[suncloud]

Not for nothing, but how many terrorists have successfully taken down a U.S. aircraft after 9/11? None. How many terrorist attacks have occurred on U.S. soil post 9/11? None.

and how many attacks happened on US soil before 9/11? none. this argument doesn't work. that's implying our airport security from 1980-2000 was the best we've ever had, and you and i both know that isn't the case.

 

[lmaiuri]

and how many attacks happened on US soil before 9/11? none. this argument doesn't work.

It works perfectly, remember the twin towers bombing in 1994?

Look it up on google and you will see the four convicted men are confirmed terrorists.

There's evidence in case you don't remember it happening, but apparently my argument doesn't work...

 

[JudoJosh]

Not for nothing, but how many terrorists have successfully taken down a U.S. aircraft after 9/11? None. How many terrorist attacks have occurred on U.S. soil post 9/11? None. Fighting an enemy that uses cowardice, women, and children as modes of destruction honestly leaves us with no other choice but to think of every measure possible and seal it water tight.
If you have a better idea of how to secure our civilians then by all means please expel your knowledge on us. Otherwise don't criticize those who make sure your relatives are safe on their flights to visit you on the holidays or vice versa. Everyone loves to criticize the government but no one wants to offer any solutions to back it up. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. And as for your terminology of "organized imbecility", which could have been substituted with "stupidity" for the sake of conciseness and lack of jargon bullsh!t fettering your argument; this "organized imbecility" has proven to provide some of the best living standards in the world for its citizens. This "organized imbecility" has proven to be the most successful government structure since the Roman Empire. Go live in Europe if you want to badmouth airport security you ****!ing moron, its not their fault anyway. Its the fault of the CIA and the FBI for not keeping an eye on these terrorists clowns and making sure they don't step foot aboard an airplane. Honest Americans make a living doing all they can to protect your fellow Americans as they travel and you come up with some childish line about banning red steak and an airplane exploding, (granted it was for emphasis) but please don't be as ignorant as you have come across with that post

Wow feels like alot of anger in that post.

In the first part of how many bombs and what not since 9/11, I think it's more important is how manny ATTEMPTS were made since 9/11 and have been stopped due to these new guidelines or regulations.

Second the point of my post was just pointing out how we are fed this fake sense of safety like the new rules I listed above and how NONE of those rules adresses the problem of how he got on the plane in the first place.

And as for offering a suggestion. I got one. Have the airport security do it's job and stop pusy footing around. Have more searches, come down on employees who aren't paying attention at airport xray screenings, come down on employees for not checking IDs throughly enough. They could implement a program similar to a secret shopper. Have someone try and sneak something on and see if they get caught and do it randomly to make sure the current system is working and if they get by figure out how and strengthen it.

But then again keeping blankets off of peoples laps will stop all the bombs from gettin on planes right?

The airport is just a business and it isn't cost effective to screen everyone screen all bags so they don't. They make these dumb rules and we are soupposed to feel safe. They treat us as if we are idiots and we buy into it so it continues.

BTW did anyone catch the release of the security manual on the TSA website?? Moves like that are REAL smart.

 

[DAdams91982]

and how many attacks happened on US soil before 9/11? none. this argument doesn't work. that's implying our airport security from 1980-2000 was the best we've ever had.

But wait.. I scarcely remember a Fort Hood tragedy with Al Qaida connections. I think many close a blind eye to the fact we are still being attacked SINCE 9/11.

 

[JudoJosh]

Also not tryin be a dic or anything but can u show me any terrorist attempts post 9/11 that were stopped as a result of any new rule or regulation due to 9/11?

Just cuz there hasn't been attempts doesn't mean what they are doing is working.

It's like me holding a pencil and saying "this is a anti tiger pencil, it keeps tigers away. Don't believe me, well do u see any tigers? See it works"

 

[lmaiuri]

Wow feels like alot of anger in that post.

In the first part of how many bombs and what not since 9/11, I think it's more important is how manny ATTEMPTS were made since 9/11 and have been stopped due to these new guidelines or regulations.

Second the point of my post was just pointing out how we are fed this fake sense of safety like the new rules I listed above and how NONE of those rules adresses the problem of how he got on the plane in the first place.

And as for offering a suggestion. I got one. Have the airport security do it's job and stop pusy footing around. Have more searches, come down on employees who aren't paying attention at airport xray screenings, come down on employees for not checking IDs throughly enough. They could implement a program similar to a secret shopper. Have someone try and sneak something on and see if they get caught and do it randomly to make sure the current system is working and if they get by figure out how and strengthen it.

But then again keeping blankets off of peoples laps will stop all the bombs from gettin on planes right?

The airport is just a business and it isn't cost effective to screen everyone screen all bags so they don't. They make these dumb rules and we are soupposed to feel safe. They treat us as if we are idiots and we buy into it so it continues.

BTW did anyone catch the release of the security manual on the TSA website?? Moves like that are REAL smart.

Well you guys have Obama and his wife Michelle to thank for that. She felt ashamed to be an American because of our water-boarding tactics of terrorists to divulge information. They deemed body screenings a violation of human rights before this attack. Also the father of the man walked into the embassy and told the CIA to watch his son because he feared that he had defected to a terrorist cell. But apparently it is the fault of airport security for not putting a gloved hand up this guy's *******? Nope it is the fault of the CIA and people will lose their jobs over this debacle.

 

[lmaiuri]

Once again with these analogies that make no sense. The government can't sit on its fist after a tragic incident such as 9/11 so they implement measures of security they believe necessary in order to protect their people so that sh!t doesn't happen again. Regardless of your sole opinion the preservation of the greater good is the purpose of the government, not whether you approve of implemented security measures or not

 

[JudoJosh]

Well you guys have Obama and his wife Michelle to thank for that. She felt ashamed to be an American because of our water-boarding tactics of terrorists to divulge information. They deemed body screenings a violation of human rights before this attack. Also the father of the man walked into the embassy and told the CIA to watch his son because he feared that he had defected to a terrorist cell. But apparently it is the fault of airport security for not putting a gloved hand up this guy's *******? Nope it is the fault of the CIA and people will lose their jobs over this debacle.

so we have Obama to blame for your anger or for the bombing? And what does waterboatding have to do with this?

Fault does lie on the airport because they let him on with a bomb. How does fault fall anywhere else but their security?

 

[lmaiuri]

so we have Obama to blame for your anger or for the bombing? And what does waterboatding have to do with this?

Fault does lie on the airport because they let him on with a bomb. How does fault fall anywhere else but their security?

Judging by your overall lack of credibility pertaining to this matter I am going to leave you with one last post before my workout because you don't deserve more than that. It is WATERBOARDING not water-boating. Besides what other kind of boating is there besides on water? Water-boarding is a torture method used to divulge information which sparked the debate on human rights pertaining to those of Arab descent. And if you read at all about the bombing recently (which it is evident that you did not) you would understand that it was the job of the CIA to apprehend this individual and stop him from getting on a plane because his father walked into the US embassy and told the authorities that his son was a terrorist who wanted to cause harm to people. The CIA did nothing about this even with all the information that was laid before them (the kids father walked in and said his son was going to commit a terrorist act!!!) and people in the organization will lose their jobs over it. The CIA has claimed that they had a lack of evidence to cover their mess-up and it has resulted in further egg all over their face. It has been in the newspaper for the past week or two but obviously you don't feel it necessary to research a topic before you comment on it

 

[JudoJosh]

Once again with these analogies that make no sense. The government can't sit on its fist after a tragic incident such as 9/11 so they implement measures of security they believe necessary in order to protect their people so that sh!t doesn't happen again. Regardless of your sole opinion the preservation of the greater good is the purpose of the government, not whether you approve of implemented security measures or not

No the analogy was to show the fault in ur logic. Just cuz I
holding a pencil and claiming it keeps tigers away and there just so happens to be no tigers near doesn't mean the pencil actually works. So to compare just cuz there haven't been attempted terrorist airplane attacks doesn't mean these BS rules are working. Show me where these rules s
actually stopped am attack? Or like the analogy show me the pencil chasing a tiger away.

 

[JudoJosh]

Sorry about the waterboating.. I'm on my phone and it has this auto correct thing that changes words. Either way I am well aware of what waterboarding is and how it works and it is still wrong bu that's just my personal belief. I think Benjamin Franklin said it best

those who sacrifice liberties and freedoms for the sense of security deserve neither.

The end doesn't always justify the means.. But this is just how I feel about that and again has nothing todo with this convo unless u try to relate it to the searches which I think is waaaay different then waterboarding

 

[lmaiuri]

I know what the analogy was for you don't need to explain the definition of an analogy to me. I can only snicker at your explanation of your weak analogy littered with extremely poor grammar and nonsensical explanations.


But I'm still waiting to hear your argument about how it was the airport security departments fault for not stopping this guy from getting on the plane. Was their crystal ball fuzzy that day? Or maybe they were too focused on the anti-tiger pencil? Or maybe they were eating all the steak that was removed from the plane earlier that week?

Or maybe the CIA ****ed up and they didn't want to admit it so they claimed faulty intelligence, but the truth surfaced and the CIA is in deep sh!t now. Sounds right to me.

 

[EasyEJL]

I seriously doubt this will be implemented with the barest amount of competence.

duh! Name one thing our government has implemented with the barest amount of competence in the last 100 years.

Profiling works well in this sort of situation - a reason to use extra caution and take a closer look at individuals who fit a certain pattern. Not to arrest them or convict them, but to chose to use extra caution with them. Its no different than using good judgement in other cases as well. Thats what good judgement IS - learning from the past and applying that learning to avoid problems in the future. 18-45 year old muslim males travelling without women are higher risk, so should expect higher scrutiny.

Then of course over time they will adapt, and find ways to break the profiling.

I think we should just have 2 lines at security, one where you have to eat a piece of bacon to go thru light screening, and one where they strip search you and examine every piece of your luggage by hand.

 

[JudoJosh]

Sorry for the mispelling or choppy posting I am on my phone at work and it's not letting me edit my post :biglaugh:

 

[lmaiuri]

duh! Name one thing our government has implemented with the barest amount of competence in the last 100 years.

1. Civil Rights Movement
2. Freeing Jews from Auschwitz
3. Destroying Hitler and the Axis of evil
4. GI bill to provide veterans with a fair shot at education
5. Women's sufferage

Thats five off of the top of my head, I hate how everyone sh!ts on the government but sits behind their computer with freedom and security. Go live in Iraq if you don't like the government here. Our government is the best around, proven. Our constitution is the longest successful set of rules in history.
So unless you know what your talking about:bryce:

And I believe the word you were fishing for was "slightest" amount of competence

 

[suncloud]

But wait.. I scarcely remember a Fort Hood tragedy with Al Qaida connections. I think many close a blind eye to the fact we are still being attacked SINCE 9/11.

that helps my argument - we're far from as safe as the government wants us to think.

 

[JudoJosh]

Yea I don't kno how one can argue these new rules make us safer cuz there hasn't been any attacks when the only think that stopped this attack was faulty wiring. If the bomb was successfull it would have blown up and the plane would have went down. How did any of the post 9/11 rules prevent a ything when he got inthe plane with a bomb???

 

[suncloud]

to make a bad analogy, its like having a DUI checkpoint a block from your house instead of right outside the bar. if you made it that far, its a little late to save someone from getting hurt.

increase airport security? please do. i remember flying into singapore in 1993 - groups of 4 armed guards with M16 equivalents making rounds with a bomb sniffing german shepard. that's security.

 

[EasyEJL]

1. Civil Rights Movement
2. Freeing Jews from Auschwitz
3. Destroying Hitler and the Axis of evil
4. GI bill to provide veterans with a fair shot at education
5. Women's sufferage

Thats five off of the top of my head, I hate how everyone sh!ts on the government but sits behind their computer with freedom and security. Go live in Iraq if you don't like the government here. Our government is the best around, proven. Our constitution is the longest successful set of rules in history.
So unless you know what your talking about:bryce:

And I believe the word you were fishing for was "slightest" amount of competence

You are an angry little troll aren't you? None of those things were implemented with any competence either. The "civil rights movement" created equal opportunity which comical created inequality, just in a different direction. "Freeing Jews from Auschwitz" wasn't something the US did alone, nor was ending Hitler's reign. Ask any soldier how well and easily the GI Bill works out nowadays, and then look at how much it cost in taxes to fund it. And women's suffrage wasn't a new program that was implemented, it was opening an existing program to new members.

Our government may be better than most of the rest of the ****holes people live in, but they are still a bunch of lying theiving bastards, and I'd have to guess that if you look up to politicians then you are probably in the same category. Many previous civilizations lasted longer than the whopping 200+ years we have - the egyptians, the mayans, etc. And the constitution isn't a successful set of rules as we can see how the politicians totally ignore the constitution.

But go ahead, live in your fantasy land, believe that Obama + Pelosi have your best interests at heart.

 

[AE14]

You are an angry little troll aren't you? None of those things were implemented with any competence either. The "civil rights movement" created equal opportunity which comical created inequality, just in a different direction. "Freeing Jews from Auschwitz" wasn't something the US did alone, nor was ending Hitler's reign. Ask any soldier how well and easily the GI Bill works out nowadays, and then look at how much it cost in taxes to fund it. And women's suffrage wasn't a new program that was implemented, it was opening an existing program to new members.

Our government may be better than most of the rest of the ****holes people live in, but they are still a bunch of lying theiving bastards, and I'd have to guess that if you look up to politicians then you are probably in the same category. Many previous civilizations lasted longer than the whopping 200+ years we have - the egyptians, the mayans, etc. And the constitution isn't a successful set of rules as we can see how the politicians totally ignore the constitution.

But go ahead, live in your fantasy land, believe that Obama + Pelosi have your best interests at heart.

Couldnt agree more. Also, to make this open, regardless of the political party they are all lying theives, and sadly always will be.

Regarding the 200+ years, that is a blink of an eye to many other cultures. Right know we are a fledgling empire, that will continue at this pace with no end in sight

 

[JudoJosh]

Couldnt agree more. Also, to make this open, regardless of the political party they are all lying theives, and sadly always will be.

Regarding the 200+ years, that is a blink of an eye to many other cultures. Right know we are a fledgling empire, that will continue at this pace with no end in sight

REPS!! Nice to see someone who isn't point the finger and blaming a political party for our woes as they are all just liars and thrives who only have their own best interest at heart. Of course not Sarah palin though who quit her government job to help the people by promoting her book and going on tour. That was way more important and had the people of Alaskas interest at heart...

Sorry couldn't resist

 

[AE14]

it really isnt a partisan issue. It is just a small few who get a little too drunk with power, and have realized that the system as is will continue to line their pockets, and it seems they do not care.

 

[EasyEJL]

both sides encourage partisanship as a sleight of hand trick so we don't notice their hand in our wallet.

 

[CopyCat]

@ Judo: As far as my opinion as to airport security? The only things I think we can hope for is a deterrent factor. "cause as it stands now, even with the new restrictions it is obviously still possible to get some kind of weapon on board. What the last incident did show to me which was very hopeful and perhaps the biggest security measure we have aboard plane is that passengers are not just going to let these people do their thing. Which is the case in the most recent one where a passenger and stewardess both took the guy down, said hey... you got some kind of $hit on you?? Ok, were just gonna strip you naked and make sure you're contained right here till we land. This is why the guy was escorted off the plane wearing only handcuffs and an airplane towel around his waist.

A big problem is enforcing our rules overseas. We can't even ensure proper protocol if followed here in the States let alone a foreign country. My last "trip" I took was to Guyana, S. America by way of Triniad & Tobbago. I had some of my military gear with me, meds, fluids, needles, surgical kits, all kind of stuff. Was not questioned getting on the plane leaving the US, and had no issues anywhere else for that matter. I was asked in Guyana before returning about my bag and had to open it, but only got about 1.5" into it, explained my way out of it by stating US military medic. And I was allowed to have my full 1L Nalgene bottle.

In regards to the TSA's manual being posted, from my understanding it was never meant or intended to be posted on the website and was done by individuals, not TSA and is being investigated. Sloppy yes, but if done by rogue or just stupid employee's not really TSA's fault, and I'm sure those individuals responsible will not have a job much longer and will probably find it hard to find another good one.

What I foresee in the future in fact strays away from passenger planes. Eventually we will start to get this whole airport security down and terrorists will find it too difficult, along with believing passengers will take the fight response out of the fight or flight. They will then turn to other targets. You think people were scared after 9/11?? Those were only airplanes and how many of us fly that often? Now, how many times do we go to the mall, theater, grocery store?? When transit buses, malls, and theaters start getting blown up then terrorism will have truly struck the heart and fear of the American citizens.

 

[dg806]

I would also like to point out the Atlanta Olympic bombing and Oklahoma City bombing. Although theses were not commited by Islamists, they are considered terroists bombings.
And a very small town cop in Murphy NC while routinely doing his job before daybreak one morning, captured Mr Rudolph while he was searching through a dumpster for food.
I still find it funny that the government said police could not profile, even though they were the ones that worked on the streets and know who is out of place and who the drug dealers are. But then when the government needs to do the same, it's ok.

 

[dsade]

Judo,

It's the same reason all the same people 'felt safer' when guys with M16s were in the airports right after 9/11. Just in case some mad arab with a bomb or bio weapon decided to storm the gate to get on a plane, they'd take him down...

.

They did this at Orange County Airport, and this was right after I got out of the Army. I ended up talking to one of them....

....they had no ammo.

 

[JudoJosh]

They did this at Orange County Airport, and this was right after I got out of the Army. I ended up talking to one of them....

....they had no ammo.

LOL they had no ammo????

See that is exactly what I am talking about. All they offer is a false sense of security without actually doing anything to prevent incidents happening again. Guns with no ammo... So just for show, just so people FEEL safe not actually are safer

 

[CDB]

Not for nothing, but how many terrorists have successfully taken down a U.S. aircraft after 9/11? None. How many terrorist attacks have occurred on U.S. soil post 9/11? None.

Gee, guess that means we must be doing all the most effective things the best we can...

Fighting an enemy that uses cowardice, women, and children as modes of destruction honestly leaves us with no other choice but to think of every measure possible and seal it water tight.

Actually that's a completely moronic thing to do. There's this thing called scarcity in the real world, it limits available resources. As such trying to do everything means you'll get nothing done effectively. Actions have to be based on a cost benefit analysis. We could simply outlaw all air travel and kill every Muslim on the planet and any problems with terrorism would be solved. The plan has problems though. And since there's no way to determine the effectiveness of any means of protection other than your fallacious We Didn't Explode Therefore It Worked reasoning, what you're actually guaranteed is continually increasing resource waste on ineffective methods while general civil liberties vanish down the **** hole. The government will spend every cent of our money getting ready for the next 9/11 only to be hit with something new, and then spend even more to get ready for the next one of those only to get hit with something new, and then...

If you have a better idea of how to secure our civilians then by all means please expel your knowledge on us.

Stop pissing off Muslim extremists by engaging in policies that give them a ready supply of recruits relative to the number of their friends/family/countrymen we turn into a strawberry chiffon smear on the ground.

Otherwise don't criticize those who make sure your relatives are safe on their flights to visit you on the holidays or vice versa.

Way to assume your own conclusion there, Dano. For shear number of ridiculous statements and logical fallacies in one post...

 

[lmaiuri]

Pissing off muslim extremists? Doesn't the "extremist" name imply they are pissed off already? **** them, the middle east is a joke and when oil is no longer needed for fuel they will wither and die in that miserable desert. Its not our fault that they are animals with nothing better to do then terrorize people for the sake of religion. Their whole mentality is completely out of control and this whole idea that the government is creating a pseudo-safety blanket over the United States is completely false. Ask veterans at walter reed medical center who have been ripped apart by IED's if the government is employing "fake" means of protecting us from these towel headed bastards, because I would bet that they believed enough in the government that you trash in order to sacrifice their bodies while you complain about the incompetence of the system. If you don't like it, change it.

 

[EasyEJL]

because I would bet that they believed enough in the government that you trash in order to sacrifice their bodies

I'd bet you are wrong, and they didn't believe in the politicians that make up the government, they believed in and wanted to protect the people of the USA. the two are quite different things.

Anyone who believes in politicians is an idiot.

 

[suncloud]

okay, now i'm irritated, since you are taking the gist of what i'm saying and being literal. allow me to get literal for you.

Not for nothing, but how many terrorists have successfully taken down a U.S. aircraft after 9/11? None.

and how many before? none? this argument is still silly

How many terrorist attacks have occurred on U.S. soil post 9/11? None.

want the list of US embassies/military installations that have been attacked since 2001? and before you say this isn't US soil, consider that mccain was born on an installation in panama, so by that rationale, he is not fit to lead the US given he is not a "natural born citizen". every democrat and republican is wrong on this issue, and somehow you, imaiuri are right.

Fighting an enemy that uses cowardice, women, and children as modes of destruction honestly leaves us with no other choice but to think of every measure possible and seal it water tight.

true. anyone pansy enough to hide behind civilians and then whine about civilians getting killed has a very skewed sense of logic.

If you have a better idea of how to secure our civilians then by all means please expel your knowledge on us. Otherwise don't criticize those who make sure your relatives are safe on their flights to visit you on the holidays or vice versa. Everyone loves to criticize the government but no one wants to offer any solutions to back it up. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

how about enhancing security to an even basic level of competence? obviously their screening measures are inadequate, and enhancing security while in the air is a little late.

Pissing off muslim extremists? Doesn't the "extremist" name imply they are pissed off already? **** them, the middle east is a joke and when oil is no longer needed for fuel they will wither and die in that miserable desert. Its not our fault that they are animals with nothing better to do then terrorize people for the sake of religion.

that's generalizing. find me one place in the koran, where it states selling opium is OK, so long as we use the money to kill infidels. they're not even following the koran, much like how christianity deviated from its morals during the spanish inquisition.

therefore, you cannot call these people muslim, without knowing you're making a false statement and generalizing. that would be like comparing the KKK to christianity - the KKK may at one time have had roots there, but i think one could argue that they no longer are affiliated.

Ask veterans at walter reed medical center who have been ripped apart by IED's if the government is employing "fake" means of protecting us from these towel headed bastards, because I would bet that they believed enough in the government that you trash in order to sacrifice their bodies while you complain about the incompetence of the system. If you don't like it, change it.

at what point did anyone say that war injuries by IED's are fake? again, we're doing this literally still right? and not everyone in the military agrees with the government, nor the military, yet most of us would put our lives on the line to preserve the american way of life. and yes, i served in bosnia

/out

 

[JudoJosh]

Obama is about to speak live on this event in about 5 mins. If anyone cared to hear what he has to say.. I wonder if airport security will be mentioned

 

[CopyCat]

@ Suncloud: Just to give you a heads up...

The idea that embassy grounds are sovereign territory was put forth by Hugo Grotius, who in the early 1600s wrote essays that became the basis for international law. Under the concept of sovereign territory, actions taken against an ambassador or other diplomat or actions taken against the embassy itself either directly or indirectly, can be viewed as actions taken against the country that the ambassador, diplomat or embassy represent.

 

[CopyCat]

Well,

Tomorrow I fly from LA to DC. I'll be sure to report back to everyone what my experiences and thoughts are afterwards.

 

[CDB]

It works perfectly, remember the twin towers bombing in 1994?

No, your argument doesn't work because there's a 7 year span between 1994 and 2001, and it's only just 2010 right now. So whatever you can say about past and recent attacks, the idea that somehow the airline security policies have so affected terrorist plots that the number of attacks has deviated from the mean, started to trend downward and/or fall outside the normal distribution is in a word: bull****.

 

[CDB]

1. Civil Rights Movement

Which has resulted in affirmative action, quotas, ridiculous lawsuits, etc., etc., etc.

2. Freeing Jews from Auschwitz

After denying them sanctuary and...

3. Destroying Hitler and the Axis of evil

After ensuring their creation with the treaty of Versailles and reparations that crippled Germany after an ill advised entrance into WWI. But I do love how NeoCons like yourself always conveniently forget that the problems the US supposedly solves are also almost always partly or entirely of our own making. Cleaing up your own drunken sick after vomitting isn't an accomplishment, it's cleaning up a mess that shouldn't have existed in the first place. But I guess that's benefit of having the memory capacity of a goldfish when it comes to foreign policy decisions.

4. GI bill to provide veterans with a fair shot at education

Because all the loans and government subsidized and out and out public schools made it hard as hell to get one...

5. Women's sufferage

Which has morphed quite handily into feminazism and, from my own experience, ****loads more work for my employees who aren't lucky enough to get a government subsidized leave to bear kids and still have their job waiting for them when they get back, or in other words more work for men to subsidize lifestyle choices for women. Hooray.

Thats five off of the top of my head, I hate how everyone sh!ts on the government but sits behind their computer with freedom and security. Go live in Iraq if you don't like the government here.

Actually the former government in Iraq is more along your desired government. They had the unfettered ability to provide 'security' for their citizens. Our government does not provide freedom; freedom is our natural state of being. The government is entrusted to a certain extent with protecting us from others who would aggress against that freedom, but has morphed into the means more often than not for violating that freedom. Unless of course there's some reason my and everyone else's freedom, which simply requires leaving us the **** alone which is itself not an altogether expensive undertaking, should cost half my God damn yearly income.

Our government is the best around, proven. Our constitution is the longest successful set of rules in history.

Our consitution is ignored on a whim unless the political backlash is too big to ignore. If the majority of the people decided the first ammendment wasn't worth keeping in a year or so, your freedom of speech would go down the toilet faster than a two ounce turd and your precious government would be the one doing the flushing.