So my live-in girlfriend's older sister came home for Christmas...
- 01-01-2010, 10:54 AM
---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
- 01-01-2010, 11:18 AM
So, what have poor people done to deserve help?
Let's take this very real scenario:::
Some have had the misfortune of being forced into those situations. I agree that there are people out there that suck off of the government, I'll totally agree with that. Just like there are millionaires out there that put their DOGS AND CATS on their taxes in order to cheat on them. Neither side is just in this case though...i will agree.
However, take someone who has gone through masters, and earned a phd, or undergrad, earned a nice paying job, only to be told that their position is no longer needed due to "downsizing".
Now, they are out of work for several months. In this case they use up all of their resources(this puts them in that "poor" category) and need government assistance because the owners of these same "rich multimillion dollar" companies, who pay these "high taxes", will not hire them. This could be due to lack of qualifications, downsizing, or if you really want to dive into it, basic racism.
Now, I ask you, what did those people do to deserve being discriminated against and left for dead with no job after doing EVERYTHING that those "rich people" did?
Remember, the rich, 85% of the time, have gotten rich using individuals who can barely live above poverty at times. Without these low paid wage workers, most of these billionaires, and millionaires would not even exist. Let's not even talk about these low life b@@stards who take their worker's overtime and it mysteriously disappears, or work people off the clock. I have no pity for many of these people.
I ask you again, who the hell deserves what?---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
01-01-2010, 11:25 AM
I should come to your house and p!ss in your oatmeal, then make you slurp it through a straw.
---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
01-01-2010, 11:30 AM
01-01-2010, 02:29 PM
01-01-2010, 03:45 PM
healthcare in the US sucks. lets be honest, its only great if you have healthcare, because without it, you're essentially screwed.
a 150k histerectomy will be settled for 40-50k by insurance. don't have insurance, then goodbye house, pay up the 150k. if i could borrow 50k from the mafia at 100% yearly interest, i could pay it off in 3 years and break even. somethings not right about that.
i say these things because in 2005, my g/f had 980k in the bank. after her medical bills, over 800k of that has been spent - just on hospital bills. and because of multiple pre-existing conditions, she can't be insured.
with regards to your g/f's older sister, she's vaguely right about doctors - in florida for example, you can get out of med school, and become a plastic surgeon with no extra training, and no need for malpractice insurance. i don't think a neurosurgeon however fits into that category...
i see both sides of the argument though, and i think we have to find a good middle ground, which starts with hospitals charging the same fee they expect to collect from insurance companies, and stop passing on the buck because "person A" didn't pay the bill. could you imagine applying that to your work - like because somebody hit you yesterday, you're entitled to smack around a bunch of people today because its "spreading the wealth"? or the PD giving someone 10 free "run the red light warnings" because someone did that to them and got broadsided?
not that spending money that we can't afford is really a great answer, but dammit, a middleground must be found.
personally, i wish we'd just ship off all the prisoners to the phillipines and pay the guards 10 bucks a day to take care of them (the going rate there). that would take a huge dent out of our budget.
bleh. i hate politics. just food for thought brotha jay.
01-01-2010, 03:55 PM
01-01-2010, 10:16 PM
Again, this is obvious. You are where you are due to personal choices. Great that you pointed out a black dot on a white piece of paper. I hold a masters in network security engineering, I do not have an "official job" in that field. I live in Alabama, there are reasons why I do not have that job and neither are by choice of my own. I've been denied job after job due to companies going with the "good ol boy" tactics. I was denied 2 of 8 jobs due to a lack of experience, the rest was just a strange occurrence and one guy flat out told me that it was due to my religious belief. For you to deny that those tactics do not exist really makes your post lack credibility.almost none. Where you are at any point is the sum of the choices you make
Once again, goes back to the previous statement. Of course, if you have a degree (no matter what level) in an obscure field and are not willing to move to an area where that degree can be put to use then you are going to have a long road ahead of you. However, I am talking about high demand degrees. No one forced them into taking that degree path, I totally agree with you. If my choice of words was misleading, my apology, however, I cannot take a gun into an office and force a guy to give me a particular job which I am more than qualified.perhaps they made a crappy choice of degrees? Instead of getting something in high demand, they got "Biological Anthropology" or something else highly limited. Again, they made the choice of their major and career path, nobody forced it on them.
I cannot tell you how many people that I know that are qualified for a particular job yet have been denied due to "circumstances" beyond their control. If they are not qualified then yeah, of course, they shouldn't be given the job. No one in their right mind should expect to be handed something IF they are not qualified. However, when the qualifications are given and you meet those better than the person whom got hired, then there is something curious going on. Would you agree?if they aren't qualified, and don't have skills worth paying for, then what do they deserve? Part of the problem is that somehow today people think they should have new cars, and jewelery and cellphones and luxury items when they don't have the skills that are worth paying for that. A PHD in Spanish Literature of the 1500s doesn't exactly have much practical application.
I am not sure what paradise that you live in but apparently it is definitely a place which I need to visit. Hell, book me a flight there NOW. A place with no racism or discrimination, wow, give me that address. Because, you know, of course, no one has ever been denied a job due to race, religion, or sex...this is American, that has NEVER happened here....I see your point.you are missing an essential point here. They aren't being discriminated AGAINST - they merely have not enough qualifications to make the sort of pay THEY expect to make. Also they obviously didn't do EVERYTHING those "rich" people did, or they'd be rich too.
Really? Would you like me to show you the speech's of Sam Walton where he states this? Or, better yet, how about I call Jim Sinegal, owner of Costco, and allow him to tell you that himself. I'll do you one better, I can just call up the CEO of target and get the info to you. It's right there in their call to employees handbook...really? Can you post some actual evidence showing that? Its just more emotional appeal with no factual basis. Did Bill Gates abuse poverty workers?
I called out a random percentage on how many. Many retailers, hell, nearly every single one of them have low paying wages where a person has to take on extra jobs just to make it. And, these people aren't living great lifestyles or trying to live above their means. Some are, you are correct, but there are many that are not. They are just trying to fill their damn cabinet with food.
[/quote]People who don't work don't deserve anyone elses money. Wages and jobs are a supply and demand situation. If you have no skills in demand they you have no job. And instead of spending your time whining and complaining about rich people, or watching american idol and biggest loser the people should be spending their time upgrading their skills.
Does this include elders too? Does this include mentally retarded individuals and physically disabled people also? what about people that held that chemical engineering degree for about 1 year, had the greatest paying job and was stricken with a disease, tossed out of that job and landed in a damn hospital.
Oh but wait, it's probably their fault that they acquired that disease, so they do not deserve anyone's help either.
I do see your point though. Obviously, we should just all be selfish b@@stards; it's easier that way.
---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
01-02-2010, 01:20 AM
You know what, I'd rather not even discuss all the topics of quote. I'd rather you tell me, Easy, how many companies which are successful that have been able to accomplish this success without a huge portion of the work being completed by low wage workers?
Doesn't the retail industry employee the 2nd or 3rd largest number of people? And of those, aren't the majority minimum wagers? I think the manufacturing industry is right there with retail in terms of both employment and low wages, perhaps not minimum but very low.
---The internet is the father of the electronic lynch-mob---
01-02-2010, 09:54 AM
What do you expect?
IMO there should be no minimum wage. It causes a false paradigm to the free market system (just as government intervention always does). But still, no one force the people to work there.Doesn't the retail industry employee the 2nd or 3rd largest number of people? And of those, aren't the majority minimum wagers? I think the manufacturing industry is right there with retail in terms of both employment and low wages, perhaps not minimum but very low.
As far as manufacturing wages being too low I have to laugh. America has lost the majority of it's manufacturing to shut down or moving to other countries because the unions have forced wages to be too high for what is being done. How can they be too low when the business' are leaving in order to still profit?
I am amazed how a worker (skilled or not) is socially acceptable to try to make as much money as possible and do as little work as possible, yet a person that starts/owns/runs the same company and usually has little if any personal time (because it's all about keeping the business running) is seen as evil and greedy for reaping the rewards of their success.
01-02-2010, 12:42 PM
Minimum wage was originally established as a minimum wage to pay skilled workers - journeyman level and above. As the liberals forced it to apply to all workers it became less and less meaningful. Jobs than an animal can do don't deserve a high wage. Jobs where you have significant training and expertise to do deserve decent pay.
01-02-2010, 03:22 PM
Hardknock, why dont you just run on a socialist retard platform? Im not even bothering with the other garbage you posted. I can make up scenarios too. Its great until you run out of other peoples money. You want to know the truth? Life isnt fair. And the more you try and make it fair, you more you **** over others. Why should I get into college over someone more qualified because I have a different skin color? I see conditional racism is welcomed. Why should I be punished because my dad worked in real estate while someone elses partied, took no initiative, and worked a dead end job? Why should he?
Why should I pay for the poors health insurance when I see countless people come into where I work and stuff themselves full of fatty greasy foods and take no interest in their health? Or the 44 year old "actor" who I know my social security and eventual free insurance will have to cover because he never did anything for himself? He followed his dreams and now he doesnt have any plans for retirement. Freedom gives us the ability to determine our own fate. Its not just...oh, only if you do good though. This is freedom. Aint that a bitch, being responsible. For all the people that get ****ed by the system there are infinite more that could have be successes and just didnt take the initiative. For every american without insurance, there are 3 more who have it. Why should that 1 in 4 get free **** because they cant afford it. Hey, I want a Z06. Do I get to have it because I cant afford it? The more you build up this, Im the victim, I want free money, I dont want to work hard to enjoy all the benefits mindset, the more you actually oppress the poor. Youre ***gy little hiptard system gives them the fish, let them teach themselves to be fishers. Its the only way theyll ever make something of themselves. Socialist states do not work.
01-02-2010, 09:27 PM
My sister in law has been in our house a week now, she brought a 36 pack suitcase of diet cokes and has literally laid around about 22 hours a day. She is like a piece of furniture that makes everything depressed in the house, and yea she is single with two cats and not hardly any friends. I was o.k. for the first few days, but after work tonight there she was laid out all over our couch again. Sorry to hijack but I feel a little better now....... Gotta love the holidays
01-03-2010, 09:48 AM
I used scenarios as points to what happens no matter the reason. But to say that no one deserves help no matter theri situation is a broad blanket statement which should not be used for every person, i.e elderly, disabled, mentally retarded ...i use my funds to help as many people that I can afford to help without putting myself into a struggle. I can't see why others cannot do the same.
I understand that this came about due to a taxation convo but as you can see, I am talking a much broader range here ...
01-03-2010, 09:53 AM
Bigrob, in some places it is legal to have multiple wives, here it isn't. Just because racism is "expected" in alabama, does that make it acceptable enough for you to "loled" at it? Shows strong character, ill say.
I've seen all races get the hook due to racist reasons, blacks, whites, latino, etc...
No one deserves to be denied anything due to a skin color, religion or sex.
However, since you think it is amusing, I now see what type of person you are or appear to be...thank you!
01-03-2010, 09:57 AM
01-03-2010, 10:02 AM
And we also get into some of the rougher questions at that point. Should someone on state support be allowed to get pregnant? should someone with a hereditary disability that leaves them unable to work be allowed to have children which will carry the same disability? I don't believe so, as for them to have that as a "right" means that my right to pursuit of happiness(keeping my income to spend how I choose) is being abridged.
There definitely are some people out there who through no fault of their own are in a predicament, yet i'd have to say that 99% of the people it was their own fault. Bernie Madroff's clients who lost money? They all went to him because they thought he had insider trading tips to create returns so much larger than any other investment person. People getting foreclosed on because they "thought" they'd figure out a way to refinance in 3 years after taking a screwball variable mortgage? They either knew the risks, or were too stupid to understand them and thus shouldn't be treated as adults as they apparently don't have the mental capacity, and foreclosure will help them avoid having to understand such complex things in the future by keeping their credit score low. As far as companies cutting back and unemployment? I don't recall it ever being a right to having a job anywhere but communist china + cuba.
01-03-2010, 10:05 AM
Texan, open your eyes and read instead of crying foul.
If a person is more qualified than another but is denied the job due to no real reasons and he is then told that "hey, we just don't agree with your religious beliefs so we can't hire you" then we are not talking about a fair system here. There is no "choice" given here. You can't make yourself be discriminated against. It doesn't happen that way for the most part.
Obviously if you come to an interview intoxicated or dressed like a hill billy or street thug then they have some reason to be concerned and that would be a foolish choice on your part to come out of attire.
The thing is that I agree with some of what you are saying but the rest is bs. No one, without need, should be given anything, however, there are people that cannot do so they must be taken care of. I go back to this, how far does your "not giving a damn about a human being" go?
You are saying we can't help elders, or the physically/mentally disabled? Many of your points need fine tuning.
01-03-2010, 10:10 AM
01-03-2010, 10:19 AM
One thing to note again about your comment bigrob...you are saying exactly what I feel is wrong. Billion dollar companies are outsourcing work to people making a pathetic wages in a foreign country. So I assume that you think that this is ok as long as it doesn't affect you, right?
You probably think that its funny too, right? Hmmm, somewhat hypocritical when discussing slave driving ... I am waiting on the argument that it is acceptable to work them like that "over there" or if it weren't for americans crying for more pay when they don't deserve it, it wouldn't be this way. Or my fav, the government has the system so screwed until company's are forced to seek cheap labor outside the U.S.
There's that word again, forced.
01-03-2010, 10:50 AM
You have a very skewed way of thinking, very one sided ... There could be countless reason why a person has to seek healthcare ... You are only looking at it from one perspective, at least from your post is what I gather.Why should I pay for the poors health insurance when I see countless people come into where I work and stuff themselves full of fatty greasy foods and take no interest in their health?
01-03-2010, 10:54 AM
01-03-2010, 11:51 AM
And TexasTitan was correct in some ways on health care. Is there some reason anyone but the person themselves should pay for health care for issues related to smoking, drinking alcohol, overeating and not exercising? those are all issues 100% within the person's own control that they need to take responsibility for. People complain about how expensive healthcare is, but forget that even 30 years ago if you were diagnosed with high blood pressure and bad cholesterol, your choice would be to die, or to get your diet under control and exercise. Now people end up on 3 different pharmaceuticals to control that instead, and never even bother with the exercise or diet control. There is no reason why 1 penny of my earned $ should go towards paying for those prescriptions. Particularly with there already being other programs for those who are in need, and that we've reached the point where a greater percentage of people are overweight than are healthy weights.
Also, the outsourcing of work to foreign countries is just another part of the supply/demand equation for wages. If its possible to get a job done for $1/2 x dollars an hour, who is going to pay $x ? You live that way yourself i'm sure, when you go to get a haircut, or any other service related activity you certainly look at the price and if the quality will be substantially the same you pick the lower cost. The problem is that people in the US have come to (since the 1970s) expect an artificially high standard of living. The skill level of the majority of americans hasn't improved substantially, yet their relative expectation of what luxury goods they should own just by having an unskilled job has gone up exponentially.
01-03-2010, 01:31 PM
Hmm....Criticize me for stereotyping then stereotype me and jump to unfounded conclusions yourself.However, since you think it is amusing, I now see what type of person you are or appear to be...thank you!
01-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Why aren't they being reemployed? Has the well of human want run dry, and no one wants anything they can provide? Doubtful. So why do they remain unemployed?
And your statement that rich people live off the poor is ridiculous, people live off of each other. Where would all those workers be without the machines that allowed them to manufacture 100 widgets per hour as opposed to 10 per hour so they're labor is more in demand? Who provided the factory? The salaries in advance of sales? Etc. etc.
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