Obama gets boo'd by doctors

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    Obama gets boo'd by doctors


    Well, its nice to see that his impervious shield has weakened and that people are coming to realize that just wishing something was so doesn't suddenly make it work out.

    President Barack Obama asked skeptical doctors Monday to get behind an overhaul of the nation's health care system, declaring it a "ticking time bomb" for the budget that could force America to "go the way of GM."
    The difficulty of his task was evident when he said he's against capping awards in malpractice lawsuits, a top priority for doctors, and earned a smattering of boos a remarkable public response to a popular president accustomed to cheering audiences.
    Flying to his hometown to speak at the annual meeting here of the American Medical Association, Obama struck back forcefully at those speaking out against his efforts to reshape the health care delivery system to bring skyrocketing health care costs under control and expand coverage to the millions of uninsured.
    He had his sharpest rhetoric yet for critics, calling them "naysayers," "fear-mongers" and peddlers of "Trojan horse" falsehoods who should be ignored. He warned interest groups and lobbyists not to use "fear tactics to paint any effort to achieve reform as an attempt to socialize medicine."
    Isn't
    a "ticking time bomb" for the budget that could force America to "go the way of GM."
    fearmongering too Mr Obama? How funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Well, its nice to see that his impervious shield has weakened and that people are coming to realize that just wishing something was so doesn't suddenly make it work out.
    Bankers would likewise boo a proposed change to FDIC or Fed policy that wasn't in their favor. Does malpractice law need an overhaul? Probably to definitely. Do damages necessarily need to be capped? No. That's one possible reform among many and not necessarily the best way to serve everyone involved.

    Isn't fearmongering too Mr Obama? How funny.
    Yeah, but the left is in my experience a little more comfortable with hypocrisy than the right. At least they used to be. The NeoCons are perfectly fine with hypocrisy it seems. And, ironically enough, it's the left that's walking through the minefield of PC right now, Obama's first judicial pick being a prime example.

    Anyway the reality is he, meaning Obama, just doesn't realize the enormity of what he's proposing. Technically we didn't 'nationalize' the school system either. But, looking at the end result, we might as well have gone ahead and just done so because that's the defacto result. He and his cohorts on the left simply do not understand the economic consequences of their actions. They really do think all problems are merely an issue of obedience to be solved with greater and greater authority and control.
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    Yeah, my entire problem with socialization of healthcare is $, and lack of personal responsibiltiy. $ wise, obviously Obama is as good at math as Geithner - ie he only sees what math he wants to see, and ignores reality. Saying that somehow our bloated system which becomes less and less cost effective as it grows will see savings (and mind you huge % savings) is just ridiculous. And i'm not sure how reducing payments to medicare + hospitals will improve quality of care, it actually sounds exactly like rationing of services. I don't mind if services get rationed to people who aren't paying for health care, but let me go ahead and pay for insurance and have actual coverage.

    As far as personal responsibility goes, what i mean is twofold. There is significant evidence to show that the less financial penalties for poor health choices such as eating/exercise the more likely a person is to make bad choices. Secondly, I find it appalling that I may end up paying higher taxes as a person who is financially successful as well as living a healthy lifestyle to provide coverage for someone who provides nothing to society and raises their healthcare costs by their retarded lifestyle choices which i also pay for as they are on food stamps, and who refuses to exercise even though they don't work and my tax dollars are paying for free gym memberships.

    Theres a book called Holy Fire by Bruce Sterling which is somewhat apropos here. Basically there are significant medical procedures which can lengthen life out to multiple centuries however the ability to receive these treatments is reserved for those who live a healthy lifestyle and contribute the most to society....
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    As far as personal responsibility goes, what i mean is twofold. There is significant evidence to show that the less financial penalties for poor health choices such as eating/exercise the more likely a person is to make bad choices.
    well, here's where i disagree with you Easy. here in cali, there are so many illegal immigrants that can't afford to get a funny looking rash checked out and assume it will go away. when it doesn't, hello ER visit and a case of malaria, which is now deferred to the taxpayer since there's nobody to bill. if we can ID a problem before it becomes a larger problem, we save money in the long run.

    the second part of that i completely agree with though. there's been studies done that say hispanics are 38% more likely than caucasians to develop diabetes, yet when i go to wall mart, i find a slew of hispanics that are overweight buying ho-ho's and twinkies.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Secondly, I find it appalling that I may end up paying higher taxes as a person who is financially successful as well as living a healthy lifestyle to provide coverage for someone who provides nothing to society and raises their healthcare costs by their retarded lifestyle choices which i also pay for as they are on food stamps, and who refuses to exercise even though they don't work and my tax dollars are paying for free gym memberships.
    yes, and 100% valid. however, how many jobs have you in your live interviewed for and turned down because you didn't like their health care, or lack thereof. if that became a moot point, theoretically, you would find a better job paying more, which would offset the taxes you would be paying for socialized health care.

    just food for thought. i'm a full believer of socialized health care, yet being a dual citizen with canada, i have seen how it goes downhill - homeless filling up the hospitals for some "my arm feels funny" when its too cold to sleep outside, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    well, here's where i disagree with you Easy. here in cali, there are so many illegal immigrants that can't afford to get a funny looking rash checked out and assume it will go away. when it doesn't, hello ER visit and a case of malaria, which is now deferred to the taxpayer since there's nobody to bill. if we can ID a problem before it becomes a larger problem, we save money in the long run.
    no, see heres where you are wrong, what we do at that point is not provide any treatment, and deport them immediately


    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    yes, and 100% valid. however, how many jobs have you in your live interviewed for and turned down because you didn't like their health care, or lack thereof.
    a few actually.


    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    if that became a moot point, theoretically, you would find a better job paying more, which would offset the taxes you would be paying for socialized health care.

    just food for thought. i'm a full believer of socialized health care, yet being a dual citizen with canada, i have seen how it goes downhill - homeless filling up the hospitals for some "my arm feels funny" when its too cold to sleep outside, etc.
    none of that changes ME as a successful person contributing to society and working paying more money for taxes and health care to provide coverage to parasites, which I find distasteful. So far as i'm concerned the US constitution gives you a right to life, which also is a responsibility to provide for that life. Its not the government's place to do any of that. Its not the role of the US government, in particular we as a country were founded on quite the reverse - self reliance and responsibility. People seem to have forgotten that as its easier to have someone care for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    well, here's where i disagree with you Easy. here in cali, there are so many illegal immigrants that can't afford to get a funny looking rash checked out and assume it will go away. when it doesn't, hello ER visit and a case of malaria, which is now deferred to the taxpayer since there's nobody to bill. if we can ID a problem before it becomes a larger problem, we save money in the long run.
    This completely begs the question. No publicly funded ER means the immigrant carries the burden of his own care. Taking tax payer funded health care as a given when people are arguing against tax payer funded health care is a bit, well, off the point. Kind of ignores the root issue, you know?
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    Lets not forget that this is an unconstitutional program, same as social security, same as medicare, same as all the other BS social programs.

    Freedom to live how the government tells you to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, see heres where you are wrong, what we do at that point is not provide any treatment, and deport them immediately
    if that was done, yes problem solved. one of my old coworkers, working on DUI number 5 spent 120 days in jail (at taxpayer expense), and was told he might get deported if he gets another DUI...... if border control stepped up a notch, and we actually did something about the illegals causing problems, free or subsidized health care might become a moot point.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDB View Post
    This completely begs the question. No publicly funded ER means the immigrant carries the burden of his own care. Taking tax payer funded health care as a given when people are arguing against tax payer funded health care is a bit, well, off the point. Kind of ignores the root issue, you know?
    private health care will always be around, for those who don't want to wait a week to see a government overburdened doctor. same goes for surgeries (same as in canada), when you just don't want to wait 6 months to get something taken care of.

    furthermore, i don't know if you've actually ever seen an ER visit, and the costs, vs what insurance actually pays for the same thing. if i could walk into an ER and pay 500 bucks for the two mile ambulance ride which is what my insurance paid, versus the 2600 the ambulance tried billing me for, i'd gladly do so.

    if hospitals billed what insurance paid for the same procedure, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    just my opinion though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    private health care will always be around, for those who don't want to wait a week to see a government overburdened doctor. same goes for surgeries (same as in canada), when you just don't want to wait 6 months to get something taken care of.
    No, it won't. There's this phenomena called crowding out, and the public school system is a perfect example of how the public option 'crowds out' the private option until it is only available to the rich and super rich, and thus for many the only practical option. The same thing would happen if you were to tax everyone in order to provide everyone with at least one car. People would view the tax funded option as essentially their first purchase. And the cost of that purchase will tend to rise over time.

    So to use the car analogy if everyone were provided with a Honda Civic as a matter of policy but its price kept going upwards thats to government inefficiencies so that people were paying BMW prices in taxes for that Honda, how many second cars do you think people would be buying? The market for economy cars would disappear and we'd be left with the government provision for everyone at an ever increasing cost and an increasingly exclusive and expensive and ever shrinking private option made up of Rolls Royce, Massaratis and other such luxury cars. The private market population shrinks but is populated by the super rich, so the money they're willing and able to throw around and the exclusivity of the service means prices go up and out of the reach of most people.

    That's exactly what happened with education, and exactly what would happen with health care. Just because Obama and his cohorts don't know enough about economics to realize that doesn't change the fact that it will happen.

    furthermore, i don't know if you've actually ever seen an ER visit, and the costs, vs what insurance actually pays for the same thing. if i could walk into an ER and pay 500 bucks for the two mile ambulance ride which is what my insurance paid, versus the 2600 the ambulance tried billing me for, i'd gladly do so.

    if hospitals billed what insurance paid for the same procedure, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    Which begs the question once more; why is that price differential even there? It's because of several reasons, some institutional which encourage over spending and over billing because to some degree payment is guaranteed and costs lost elsewhere need to be recovered, and because we're dealing with largely a third party/single payer system already. It's not like the US health care system is a paragon of capitalism. It's massively managed with medicaid and medicare, our home grown versions of socialized medicine, accounting for almost half of the bills raised and settled each year in the industry.

    Health Care is not a magic industry, there's no particular reason why prices have to be be so high. so before we turn our health care over to the geniuses who gave us FEMA, the Fed, and the DMV, I'd want to take a look specifically at how the government it making things worse and more expensive first and remove those problems and see what happens before I start sucking even more income out of people's pockets to pay for something that there is no constitutional authorization for, and which really isn't their damn responsibility.
  

  
 

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