Iran Yay or Nay?
- 04-13-2009, 08:37 PM
- 04-13-2009, 10:47 PM
I don't think we can take Iran in a ground invasion without taking 80,000-100,000 casualties. Iraq is flat, Iran is mountainous, like Afghanistan, but much more technologically savy than Afghans. I just wouldn't F with Iran.
- 04-13-2009, 10:56 PM
As much as I'd like to say "Allow them peaceful use of Atomic energy," there are just way too many 'what if' scenarios that could develop. And since inaction is just as bad as improper action, I'd have to say diplomacy first.
If we can ensure that their nuclear program/technology would never fall in to the hands of those who would use them for malice, then I'd be all for Iran using Nuclear power.
An arguement I've heard:
"Why would a country knee deep in oil want to spend money on a new power source for any reason other than malice?"
Damn my circular logic! Diplomacy first."I am legally blind and if I can Squat,deadlift and over all get myself to the gym then anyone can get their a$$ in gear and get strong!!" - malleus25
04-13-2009, 11:15 PM
The gap between nuclear energy and weapons grade nuclear material is so big that I am not worried about Iran. Nevermind the gap between weapons grade material and an actual weapons, which is also huge. They only way they get it anytime soon is if Russia or NK gives it to them. We have NK monitored very well and Russia isn't stupid enough to spill the beans. If this was a big deal it would have already been taken care of, just like the nuclear plant that was bombed in Syria not long ago by the Israelis.
04-14-2009, 02:56 AM
Iran has superior SAM's than Iraq did. The s-300PMU is probably why Israel won't touch Iran, and keep pushing US to do it with our f-22's. Their air force is pretty old though.
No way our ground forces would make it against all the locals. As mentioned before, the terrain is also very difficult to navigate.
04-14-2009, 06:13 AM
04-14-2009, 01:56 PM
Iran does not have S-300. They have Tor-M1. No one is talking about a ground war with Iran, they're talking about Jericho IIIs and F-15s
04-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Do people here feel he is a legitimate threat? Or are some suspicious that this another preemptive war to get into Iran for commerce and other reasons.
We will hear every excuse in the book:
-Wipe Israel off map misinterpretation
-He's just Crazy and "tyrannical"
-He wants to wipe America from the earth!
-he's killing our soldier's in Iraq. (may be true)
The American people won't want a war with him especially since we've been bogged down in Iraq.
I predict there will be an action committed to Iran to provoke the US. Or will we provoke them and claim they attacked us.
We've done it before with 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty to blame it on Egypt and enter the war.
04-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Fifth option: stay completely out of it. Wish Iran as well as every other nation in the middle east good luck. Pull our troops out, let them hack and maim and stone and female circumcize themselves to death. So long as they don't bother us, keep a happy face and trade porn and sausage for oil.
04-14-2009, 04:40 PM
along with s-200 and manyTOR m1's.
Israel won't be able to strike Iran with either f-15i's or f-16i's without accepting some serious losses. Both of these aircraft have massive RCS's and will be detected long before they are in striking distance. Anti-radiation missile won't work either because Tor-m1 is capable of intercepting those. Plus they must face off with Mig-29's and older f-14's as well.
They also have a supercavitation torpedo called the "hoot" which is potentially a variant of the Russian Shkval. This torpedo moves way too fast(360 km/h) for any ship to out maneuver it. Basically an underwater missile.
In the works right now, Iran is or has ordered Russian SU-30MKM's a very formidable aircraft and far superior to f-15/16s. Potentially, also Chinese fighter craft as well. Their economy has not been struck by the worldwide downturn either so they will be functioning well for years to come.
In my opinion Israel want's to have complete dominance in the region, they even prevented the sale of f-15's to Saudi Arabia along with other weapons, and we had to strip them of offensive capability and had them used only for defensive purposes.
Iran will not fire missiles at Israel, and will not give material to be used as a dirty bomb because all fingers will point to him right away. One missile and his country will be obliterated.
As mentioned before Pakistan does have Nukes and plenty of radicals waiting to seize control of the Government, so I think they are a threat more than Iran.
04-14-2009, 04:44 PM
04-14-2009, 05:23 PM
Let's also not forget that both Russia and Iran have denied this deal. If it were true, why would they deny it? They didn't deny the initial sa-20 agreement...
There's also very little threat of Iran selling material. Since 2002 there have been over 300 seizures of radiological material that was attempted to be sold or smuggled. I think the intelligence community is doing just fine.
04-14-2009, 08:28 PM
Here is like to S-300PMU-1, while some Russian officials deny it, others have actually clarified that they did sell the system. Iran would deny to keep their sites from being targeted and well Russia would deny it to avoid any BS. Some say they have the systems but they are in storage and dismantled.
Apparently Iraq tried to get some before the US invasion. Thank God it didn't or we would have a lot harder time getting in there. On the other hand we might have not even went there at all?
As for the Sukhois, Iran definelty wants them, they might sign a billion $ deal for 12 squadrons I believe. China has entered the weapons sales market as well, probably why Iran wants the J-10 too.
They have been able to reproduce parts for the f-14's indigenously so they claim. And 25 are still functioning. Supposedly they have upgraded them and the old-ass f-4 phantoms too.
That's exactly what I was saying! Our intel community is fine! We haven't got a dirty bomb yet. So why risk soldiers, equipment, debt and human lives? I feel Iran is more of a target for it''s vast oil and future competition for Halliburton's Caspian Natural Gas Pipeline with Iran's projected pipeline that will supply India/China.
So US loses monopoly over the profits of resources.
04-14-2009, 08:36 PM
04-14-2009, 08:43 PM
04-14-2009, 08:52 PM
04-14-2009, 10:32 PM
04-14-2009, 10:48 PM
It's Israels problem.. Let them handle it. The American work force has given Israel over $84 billion since 1949.
Read more www . svsu . edu/clubs/vanguard/stories/628
04-14-2009, 11:01 PM
Iran wants nuclear energy as act of defiance to show that it's not gonna let itself get over ruled. Getting Nuclear warheads is also a way to show they are now a world power. They wont ever fire off any nukes, they will end up paying a harsher price.
Plus he can't nuke Israel. Common sense, Palestinians are in close proximity
04-14-2009, 11:08 PM
It's the same pre-invasion rhetoric that we saw with Iraq, overtime they are gonna keep pressing and pressing for Iran. Give false reports and facts, demonize the leader, and suppress the true facts.
M.A. (his name is too rediculous to type out)
-Never said "wipe Israel off the map" the true translation is "vanish from the pages of time" He was also quoting someone else.
-He does not hate Jew's as is shown in the Media. He has Jews in his nation in parliament.
-He supports a one state solution in Israel where both groups share in elections. As he has stated many times. This is why he refuses to recognize Israel as a nation.
Given that AP and Reuters were both bought by Sir Evelyn Rothschild(Zionist) in 1980s I don't think any news is reported in their favor.
04-14-2009, 11:28 PM
04-15-2009, 07:20 AM
I'm not saying he is a good guy (no person in a position of power is a good guy), I'm going after our Media's bull**** smearing in order to pull us into a war by spoon feeding us misinformation and fear mongering. Something so small as misinterpreting a quote in farsi to english has led to an outcry by Israel and Fox News here, They use that statement as the primary reason for invading Iran. Humans on both sides could die because of irresponsible reporting or deliberate misinformation. The media needs to stop pushing for a war because Israel is scared to strike.
You have to consider the misguiding media-machine here inside the US. Time will tell and you will see an increase in reporting of crimes. A.M. is being labeled a nutcase but yet has been invited to speak at American Universities. It's our media that makes him a genocidal-tyranical mad man in order to better serve support for the war from the public. Same was said about Hussein. And in the 80's we were in business with him while he was being "tyranical" our Gov. doesn't care about the "tyranical" part if you ask me.
Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Don't buy US media misinformation. Israel wants complete domination of the region.
04-15-2009, 07:51 AM
CIA is currently in Iran anyways supporting an uprising of PPK. So nukes or not, we are already engaged.
04-15-2009, 02:51 PM
(Ahmadinejad clarified his remarks, saying that when he called the Holocaust a myth he was merely trying to communicate that it was not just Jews that died, but millions of people and he wants to know why it is the Palestinian people that have to pay for the Nazis' slaughter of the Jewish people.) I don't beleive this for one second and thats just my opinion. Death to the us or hating the us regardless, we aren't on his best friend list lol. Hezbollah is,if you will, a good terrorist organiztation lol. I was just saying that they don't want the west anywhere near them. Your right Iraq should be split up because they can never ever agree on anything. But im at least glad that that sob isn't in the range of the US. Because if he was we would be royally screwed. This is a good debate but sadly, the middle east will never become civilized because of its religion. I mean, a civilization that forces women to cover up their faces and doesn't allow them to leave the house without the husbands permission has serious problems.
04-15-2009, 04:04 PM
No doubt about that, Islam is a religion in the stone ages. If the people in the Middle East don't realize that they are following antiquated beliefs, they are gonne be riding camels forever while we get our hover cars started in the future hopefully. I am opposed greatly to religion's involvement in politics, especially with Christianity. Not all muslims country have those kind of restrictions. Some have some beautiful women too I might add. They should open their eyes about human/rights and justice. I studied Criminology and different justice systems around the world. Basically with an Islamic rule of law, you break it you're done. Hardly any trial or anything.
When you get people in charge saying "Iraq war is a task from God" it's like slapping God in the face. The NeoCons *******s are abusing our Servicement (respect always) and the other people. You have politicians getting churches to endorse them, and now even some Evangelicals have books such as "Should Christians Support A Cease Fire". As Christians (I'm Catholic) we should always denounce war.
Well A.M. will always be demonized in the media. Since he can not speak English, his speeches and statements will always get mis-construed either accidentally or deliberately.
You can figure it like this if Iran gets a nuke:
Iran= 1 warhead
Israel= 200+ submarine based SCMB's
U.S. = 10,000 land based sub based missiles.
So, they will definitely lose.
04-15-2009, 07:55 PM
04-16-2009, 01:03 PM
Yup me too.
Does anyone have any possible alteratior motives that could be the motivation for this war?
04-17-2009, 10:55 PM
04-17-2009, 11:20 PM
04-19-2009, 02:03 AM
04-19-2009, 11:32 PM
04-20-2009, 12:07 AM
04-20-2009, 12:36 AM
04-20-2009, 07:00 PM
04-20-2009, 07:00 PM
04-21-2009, 07:50 PM
04-21-2009, 07:58 PM
I'm by no means a dollar "bull", but until something better comes along or the dollar is devalued to the point it loses its viability, the dollar will be the reserve currency of world trade.
04-22-2009, 08:37 PM
04-28-2009, 07:57 AM
04-28-2009, 08:28 PM
However, I am banking (literally) on the dollars slow demise due to the obnoxious US debt. I think over the next 5 years, the dollar will slowly lose its dominant role. However, what will take its place is beyond me. Maybe the Chinese will float the Yuan and back it up with all the commodities they're buying.
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