Funny Analogies on the American Economy, by Peter Schiff, Ron Paul's Economic Advisor
- 12-21-2008, 05:20 PM
Funny Analogies on the American Economy, by Peter Schiff, Ron Paul's Economic Advisor
- 12-21-2008, 05:29 PMBoard Sponsor
- 5'10" 215 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
Sounds absolutely accurate to me. Though, I would say these analogies characterize the entire global-fiscal Fiat system, and not merely the United States economy. The concept of actual valuation has been gone for quite some time.
- 12-21-2008, 05:34 PM
YouTube - Peter Schiff Predicts 2008 Crash
Laffer owes him a penny.
12-21-2008, 07:47 PM
- 5'10" 215 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
If I was to invest in a foreign currency, it would most likely be the Euro. If this recession turns into a depression, we may see Global banks turn to the Euro based on its strength v., the American Dollar.
This is what I was saying previously: The direct injection of capital in the form of moneys (see: Bailouts) reduces the liquidity of, and devalues, current moneys - the US Dollar is traded because of its high liquidity (ability to be transacted without devaluing). If the global market senses that liquidity is a thing of the past, the EU may usurp it. This would be even more disastrous than it is now!
In investing in the Euro you obviously lose money in the immediate term, but the USD will probably lose more comparative value in the coming months.
12-21-2008, 10:52 PM
12-22-2008, 01:48 AM
Amazing. All those "experts" laughing at him just like the Republican candidates in the primary laughed at and dismissed Ron Paul. Who's laughing now?
The sad thing is that only Ron Paul stood a chance to beat Obama and no one realized it. Both Obama and Paul had a platform of change, and they could have had very meaningful debates on what should be done and how. Instead, Americans were really left with one voice for change - and it definitely wasn't McCain.
12-22-2008, 05:42 AM
12-22-2008, 05:48 AM
The biggest problem that the US faces if Obama raises taxes is the fact that money will flow out of it. Due to the recession, bailouts and so on, the US economy doesn't represent a secure place to invest in the eyes of a lot of people and they'd just invest in other countries with different taxation systems(N. Ireland has a 12.5% flat tax rate on investments and a 0% reinvestment of dividends tax - if I'm not mistaking about the latter). This would directly show not only in job loses, but also in drops of stocks and immobile assets on which a lot of the retirement funds are based. Obama promised change, but change can be both bad and good. It's sad how many people see him as a saviour, when at least in my point of view, most of the changes he proposes are in the wrong way.
Also, smart people move to places with lower taxes(European brain drain, for example).
12-22-2008, 12:35 PM
- 5'10" 215 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
12-22-2008, 12:40 PM
12-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Obama had around 2 Billion in campaign contributions and the ,if not one of, longest running campaigns ever.
Whom do you suppose was pulling the strings, buying commercial time and advertising?
Whomever had this kind of big buisness backing WILL win every single time and for that reason, along side an uneducated public, comes the dissolving of this alleged domocracy.
Very few actually knew the platforms aside from taxes, gay marrige and iraq.
YouTube - Gerald Celente Predicts '08 Panic
One of many Gerald Celente predictions, alongside peter schiff, of the few honest and/or non corrupted ignorant analysers.
12-23-2008, 01:24 PM
That's exactly it. Many of these economists on television who claim to believe this continued gov't. intervention can save us are working for the various financial firms. Negative trends and talk are bad for business. Some of them are analysts/journalists who think that they can stem the tide of panic.One of many Gerald Celente predictions, alongside peter schiff, of the few honest and/or non corrupted ignorant analysers.
But Gerald Celente, Bob Chapman, Peter Schiff. They're all big names who have the balls to actually tell the public what is happening.
Celente just did an interview a few days ago. It's much longer than the video in somewhatgifted #11 post (it's 7 parts). The interview is also much more frightening. He's calling what were heading into not The Great Depression 2, but The Greater Depression. Among many other things, his Trends Institute has predicted the US becoming an undeveloped nation by 2012, massive unrest, martial law.
You may want to wait until after christmas to watch this. Or, at least until after your workout.
The meat of the predictions come in the 2nd video:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
YouTube - Gerald Celente on The Alex Jones Show"The Coming Revolt"2/7
12-23-2008, 01:47 PM
During the first depression roughly 90% of people grew their own food or produced somthing that sustained them, other than cash money or "wealth". Only 10% of people lived in cities they were hit the hardest. When crap hit the fan the farmers could aleast eat and ride it out.
NOW... 90% of people live IN cities with utter depedance on the "system" to trade their credit dollars for real consumable items like food. When the dollar crashes you wont be able to buy or trade for food casue your paper isnt worth squat.
If a depression does happen then it will easily be teh most devastating due to the credit system and reliance on imports adn shipping of food.
For your own good look into producing your own food, spend atleast $50-60 extra from each grocery shop on non perishables. Stockpile food like a winter squirrel, it wont hurt, and if you need it will stop you from dying and/or your family from starving in front of you.
I would get out of the dollar and buy "real world" items like any medicines, food or items urgent to your survival.
Duing war-times it waas very common to have a "pantry" or "dry room" to store large amounts of food... just in case.
Last edited by somewhatgifted; 12-23-2008 at 05:12 PM.
01-10-2009, 11:57 AM
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
01-10-2009, 02:51 PM
So according to schiff, obamas new tax cuts will be catastrophic. To much government meddling and not allowing the market to fix itself.
01-10-2009, 03:02 PM
01-10-2009, 03:14 PM
This is fear mongering at its finest, bills are passed witout public knowledge and now blaring catastrophy on the air is somehow going ot help?
Accumulating debt for all to pay because of bad buisness of few has only added to this. Overspending has caused this, debt has caused this, and now they are lowering the national income. Its just more meddling.
Why are they cutting taxes? to give joe blow some breathing room so he can go out and buy stuff. Not going to work, if youve missed a few bills or worried about eating next week, another $1000 is only going to be squirreled away and cause more harm than good as the gov now has less cash to pay its bills.
This is my juvenile opinion but seems like more of the same shiet. If a buisness fails its cause it wasnt viable or it was poorly managed and the US of A is a poorly managed buisness.
If your buisness is struggling you dont give your employees a bonus.
Do you think people are going to run to home depot or macy's to spend their tax savings?
The trend will continue and the only thing bush or obama has managed to do was to add to the mess.
01-10-2009, 04:07 PM
01-10-2009, 04:14 PM
More exports less imports from china. Start producing stop borrowing. Stop printing off money hyper inflating the dollar. Let failing buisnesses fail, and a new viable market will emerge in time.
Thats all i can think of, easy to say and i have always agreed with schiff saying we need to start producing "when we borrowed money and spend it on consumption thats the problem, we need to build factories".
Stimulus should be used on job creation via exploring new, more efficient techonolgy and clean renewable resources.
People cant get a loan to buy a 30,000 car or a 300,000 dollar house.. big deal atleast they can eat and work till then.
The average american invests 2% of their income, the average person in china invests 35% or their income.
01-10-2009, 05:50 PM
American business aligned with Chinese labor is profitable in the short term, but this comes at the expense of the American economy in the long term. Cheap foreign labor is only profitable if there is a vigorous, healthy economy to sell its products in. By taking away production from the USA, we become more idle, and our economy suffers. Now we no longer have a vigorous economy, and dependence on foreign labor is a major contributing factor. The seemingly healthy economy of the past was a farce, it never was healthy because it was running off of credit, not real capital. Credit we can't come close to paying back any time soon.
I believe that free trade is a flawed policy in our current predicament. Instead of taxing the American people, we should be charging strong tariff's on foreign imports while cutting taxes. Cutting taxes will help us pay off our debt, and eventually have the buying power to purchase American products. The tariff's would help make up for lost revenue from cutting taxes and make American products competitive, thus increasing domestic production and re-invigorating our economy. The problem is that it isn't just the Chinese that make profit from cheap foreign labor, but American corporate snobs who are partnered with them. And these are the same snobs that influence (or have posts in) our government and love free trade.
It's all about greed. That is why we get such crappy products too. Our food is a great example. Fast food would be healthy if they used better ingredients. Even foods in the supermarket use inferior non-healthy ingredients. Foods that are organic, that don't contain hydrogenated oils, hormones, MSG derivatives, or HFCS are expensive only because it is a relatively small niche that can't compete in price with most treated foods.
But if the FDA banned this garbage in all foods sold in this country, we would all be eating healthier foods. Organic / minimally processed food wouldn't cost as much if it was the standard. Similar to this analogy, I think that prices for products would be reasonably priced and profitable for us if the economy was based on competition among American businesses and their American made products. It might cost a little bit more, especially at first, but with a re-invigorated economy our buying power would be increase and make up for it. It would be hard in the short term as we stabilized into such a system, but it would pay off in the long term, which is the opposite of what we have now.
I am dubious of globalization and think that we should strive for a relatively independent economy with little reliance on imports. We live in a big country that can produce anything it needs to be self sufficient and sell the excess.
I'm no economist, but it seems feasible to me.
01-10-2009, 06:50 PM
Businesses and the economy succeed when they can employ their capital and work toward profit, without having to worry about the Federal Government X factor.
01-10-2009, 06:57 PM
Isolationism is anti-American because its anti-free trade and enterprise. The international economy offers substantial opportunities to everybody. China today is the US a hundred years ago.....a sleeping giant awakening to its true economic potential. China will pass the US up as the dominant economic force in the world sometime in the next 10 years.
In the meantime the US needs to get out of debt and focus on recreating a production based economy. Chinese and Indian markets offer the largest market ever to American enterprise and should be looked at as an opportunity and not a burden.
01-11-2009, 12:08 AM
I mostly agree with your second statement. It's good for business when they aren't burdened with unnecessary government regulation. Government should butt and let the market fix itself. Minimal regulation would include not giving corporate welfare in the form of the bailouts in my opinion.
01-11-2009, 12:19 AM
I think it is a national security issue in the long term. I would agree with you if I felt we could compete, but the labor costs in China are just simply to low for us to compete. I don't think it is Anti-American to try to develop a successful and independent economy here. On the contrary, I think it's quite patriotic We lost a substantial amount of manufacturing jobs due to free trade agreements like NAFTA. I don't think that American workers losing jobs due to free trade to be Pro-American.
And even if China wanted to cash in our debt we owe them, we don't have the money to pay it. So then what would they do?
01-11-2009, 08:53 AM
State and Local Taxes
Social Security Taxes
Environmental Regulation Taxes
Safety Regulation Taxes
Competition from Government Sponsored Entities and Goverment
Animal Rights Taxes
The Expectation of Medical and Dental Insurance
None of these are free market realities, but they're all issues businesses in America deal with on a daily basis. The US dug their own hole.
We tried tariffs in 1929-1930 and several other times. It hurts more than it helps.
Well, first of all, our ramifications is the collapse of our monetary system, which though it would be bad for them, would be devastating for us. Consider it the same as an individual going bankrupt. We would have trouble getting loans from then on, and our currency would be worse than the peso or rubel. Every business and individual with dollar denominated assets (which is the majority of American individuals and businesses) would be essentially broke.And even if China wanted to cash in our debt we owe them, we don't have the money to pay it. So then what would they do?
01-11-2009, 04:26 PM
However, I think some regulation is needed to minimize any gross abuse of labor or the environment. I hope it can be done in a way that is fair for both sides.
As far as China is concerned, if our economic survival is reliant on our ability to get loans from them then we have already lost. We shouldn't have to rely on them for loans. And we are essentially already broke. We are deep in the red. Its probably very difficult to get additional credit so we are about maxed out.
But I agree with you more than you may think. We can't blame China completely. Like you said, we dug this hole ourselves.
01-11-2009, 09:42 PM
01-11-2009, 09:48 PM
I think the US has to get rid of the money laundering FED.
Tariffs only make it harder to get good prices for imports or pay more locally. The US has to model after china who will be the technology and industrial center of the 21st century. You have to produce a viable serive or good that has a low opportunity cost or risk creating debt to spend on consumption.
Im clearly out of my economic leauge here, lol.
I think the people work hard but get the shaft when they are shelling out for a war, and to big buisness there are no solutions in this environment.
01-11-2009, 09:53 PM
How long until the Amero do you think? Or do you think the Amero is conspiracy B.S? Im thinkin amero 2010-2011.
01-12-2009, 07:07 AM
01-12-2009, 07:10 AM
01-12-2009, 02:45 PM
The only way the US can get out of the whole is cutting down the size of the government, in order to cut taxes and attract investments. Also the business in the USA needs to move in areas that requires well qualified people because you can't provide things if most of your workers are unqualified. It's sad that as Schiff says, the US gov will tax exactly the people that it needs.
Another huge problem for the US is that a part of the welfare people live on it because of illegals. Deport the illegals whenever you catch them and unqualified people will have jobs too.
01-12-2009, 03:03 PM
That alone would give us the revenue to eventually balance the budget while taking off the table our biggest expenses.
01-14-2009, 06:28 AM
Last edited by somewhatgifted; 01-14-2009 at 07:39 AM.
01-14-2009, 07:18 AM
01-14-2009, 07:37 AM
01-14-2009, 07:54 AM
01-21-2009, 04:58 AM
What you propose will never work politically. Plus, what will you do about people with disabilities? And the investment money that will go in the US if you will only have a 10% sales tax on everything would be crazy. What I am amused about the current way of social security is the fact that is unsustainable. You need more workers in order to be able to sustain ageing populations and bigger numbers that live off welfare, but in order to that you need higher natality rates and the Earth is already overpopulated. With higher number of people on Earth you put more stress on the resource deficit thing.
Similar Forum Threads
- By GMG760 in forum LG SciencesReplies: 14Last Post: 06-09-2010, 03:45 PM
- By somewhatgifted in forum General ChatReplies: 3Last Post: 12-13-2008, 07:26 PM
- By somewhatgifted in forum General ChatReplies: 37Last Post: 11-07-2008, 09:32 PM
- By bpmartyr in forum PoliticsReplies: 11Last Post: 09-03-2008, 10:05 PM
- By BlueBayou in forum PoliticsReplies: 2Last Post: 05-07-2007, 08:20 AM