Science behind 3,5 vs. 3,3
- 07-28-2010, 06:04 PM
Science behind 3,5 vs. 3,3
I am confused why you selected and promote the 3,3 analogue of t2.
The articles I have read suggest that 3,5 is more active in brown adipose while 3,5 is more active in muscle tissue. This would clearly suggest that 3,3 is superior for fat loss and could even possibly suggest that 3,3 will cause further glycogen loss and even possibly muscle loss. the only advantage to 3,3 seems to be that it is less suppressive of TSH.
On that note, could 3,3 aka alpha tt2 be used when tapering off of traditional thyroid hormones (t3?). Is the less suppressive nature strong enough to allow partial thyroid recovery (I am aware thyroid recovers quickly anyway) if used with a wise protocol (dhea variants, colleus, iodine)
Note: I have purchased a bottle but am hesitant to move away from t3, I am looking to recover some glycogen/fullness in the switch btu the analogue confusion has me doubting myself.
Last edited by goonstopher; 07-28-2010 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Mixed up the numbers
- 07-28-2010, 10:57 PM
The 3,5-T2 will have affects similar to T3. TSH shutdown, glycogen depletion, require a thyroid PCT, etc. We wanted to stay away from ALL of this.
We chose 3,3-T2 for one sole reason -- It will not shut down your TSH. The 3,5-T2 will shut down your TSH in the same manner as T3. We did not want a supplement that affected the thyroid in a negative manner.
People will argue that "well 3,3-T2 doesnt have very much literature on it" but just because there is a lack of literature does not mean there is a lack of affects.
A friend of mine, commonly known on the internet as "Iron Addict", purchased some 3,3-T2 a few years back and was taking ONLY 3,3-T2. He said he absolutely loved the results he got from it, and was very excited to see Alpha-T2's ingredient profile.
Alpha-T2 could in fact be used while tapering off of T3. I have received emails from users who have gotten blood work done while on Alpha-T2 as well as just finishing, and their TSH was always in range.
- 07-28-2010, 11:40 PM
Thanks... I will fix my first post
07-28-2010, 11:42 PM
T-2 (L-diiodothyronine or 3, 5-diiodo-L-thyronine)
Drug Class: Thyroid Hormone. (Oral)
Average Reported Dosage: 150-600 MCG daily.
*Minor noted suppression of thyroid function during lower dosage short term (30-35 days) administration.
There are two well known synthetic thyroid hormones commonly administered by bodybuilders known as T-4 and T-3. (*See "Synthroid" and "Cytomel" for more info) However, some have not yet heard of another natural thyroid hormone called T-2 or Ldiiodothyronine. The good new is that it is highly active and naturally occurring in some foods such as beef products. It is also non-prescription in many countries…so far. The bad news is that since it works quite well and offers individuals freedom of choice, it probably will not be legal for long.
So far, T-2 seems to be slightly more effective for fat oxidation (burning) than either T-4 or T-3 alone while offering an improved protein sparing-like result. This may be true. T-2 stimulates cellular mitochondria (cellular energy producers) more so than the cell nucleus. This means, unlike T-4 and T-3, T-2 is less likely to activate other cellular functions and more likely to focus upon increased metabolic rate or energy expenditure. Personal experience had shown an excellent synergistic effect between T-2, Norephedrine, and ephedrine plus caffeine. This is due to an interesting interplay between the substances.
1. T-2 increases resting metabolic rate by stimulating mitochondria expenditure of energy from calories. T-2 also increases Adenylate Cyclase production. Adenylate Cyclase is like a master enzyme in our bodies that positively effects most other fat burning and muscle building enzymes and hormones. As example, adenylate Cyclase elevation results in an increased rate of production of cyclic AMP (cAMP) from ATP. This forces fat cells to give their stores to be used as fuel for energy production. The result is an increase in fatty acid (fat) oxidation and a protein sparing effect because fat becomes favored muscle cell food.
2. Norephedrine and ephedrine mimic and stimulate the release of the adrenal hormones norepinephrine and epinephrine. Norephinephrine raises heart rate and epinephrine stimulates carbohydrate metabolism resulting in an increased metabolic rate, fatty acids release from lipocytes (fat cells), and a protein sparing effect. Caffeine simply prolongs the effect.
T-3 is about 5 times more active than T-4, and some research suggests T-2 is more active than T-3. My experience to date has been that this just is not the truth. But, T-2 does offer a reasonably safe non-prescription alternative to the use of synthetic T-4 or T-3 drugs in countries where it is still an OTC product. Of course some idiots somewhere will find a way to hurt themselves with it and show up on day time talk shows. Like the guy who discovered nail guns can inflict a law suit based injury if held to one head just so. (This really happened)
There is also the drug synergy that results from a T-4, T-3, T-2 stack to consider for overall effectiveness and reduced dosage requirements. Some athletes have reported an improved rate of fat loss and better lean tissue retention with this technique. Most T-2 users reported an increase in metabolic rate and activity proportionate to dosages as listed. This supplement has been noted as exceptionally beneficial for individuals who have a slower metabolic rate naturally that results in above normal fat storage and poor post-training recovery at a dosage of 50 MG, 4 times daily. Others had found the higher listed dosages necessary for rapid fat loss at maximum rates. Most reported improved rate of recovery, improved lean mass to fat ratio, and often an increase in libido. (No Joke)
T-2 has a half-life of 4-6 hours. Due to this brief period of activity users reportedly divided dosages into 3-4 daily administrations to maintain constant circulating T-2 levels and the resulting metabolic rate increase. T-2 use can create a negative feedback loop at higher dosages and due to prolonged use. The result was often metabolic lag usually for 3-7 days after discontinuance. (See guggulsterones and Coleus Forskohlii for common reported solutions)
Athletes also used T-2 post-AAS use as a means of avoiding post-cycle metabolic lag. (50 MG 4 times daily)
07-29-2010, 01:08 AM
Good post man. Its too bad it doesn't differentiate between the two T-2's. I know at the top is says L-diiodothyronine or 3,5'-T2, because it is just as "or" as 3,3-T2. I think that made sense. It doesn't mean those affects don't apply to 3,3-T2 as well.
There hasn't been much literature differing the two, except for the fact 3,5-T2 suppresses your natural TSH, which is why we stayed away from the compound. We did not want our users to have to take a PCT.
Not sure about the glycogen part...but I do know that after thousands of users and a ton of feedback, this has need been reported yet. A lot of people using this for a lean bulk actually with great feedback.
What I do know though, is that T2 (both versions) itself offers an amazing alternative to T3 and T4, and will in fact show results. We tested doses of JUST 3,3-T2 when testing different blends and doses for Alpha-T2, and it definitely is very effective.
Give it a try...
Glycogen depletion can be noticed very quickly, usually within a day, and can be restored just as fast. It's just glucose storage!
07-29-2010, 08:04 AM
Yeah, I am being curiously "combative". I figure this is worth talking about.
This supplement is in fact a drug being sold to hobbyists who are not drug using bodybuilders so any research that can be provided is always good. People see that something is a supplement and can lose sight of its' power.
I wish that article had references listed. It makes claims about where the variants are active (muscle or fat cells) but does not offer where it got that info. Finally, more important than glycogen is protein turnover. If those claims it makes are true then muscle/strength loss could be a problem. I have read some numbers from users (honestly skimmed so don't hold this as iron clad) that suggested they did lose some muscle. They might not have noticed it but the numbers they mention compared to the fat loss (judged by pics or measurements) kept leaving me with the impression that they lost a decent amount of muscle. I'll try to read more.
07-29-2010, 01:29 PM
Just because one gets weaker when dropping weight does not mean it is from Alpha-T2, or any supplement they are taking for that matter. This is often the result of their diet and/or training. Punishing their CNS with increased cardio and workouts will do it. Depletion in their diets will do it, supplements or no supplements. Combine these two together, as most do, and anyone will lose a little muscle, supplements or not.
We do not claim Alpha-T2 to actually help make you stronger or get bigger, but instead offer a great supplementation for someone who is looking to lose weight or lean bulk. We do not claim that it will make you keep all of your muscle if you are eating like crap and over training either.
Most people who start doing a "4 week fat loss cycle" or something change everything when they start supplementing; diet, cardio, workouts; etc.
We tested it for months before release on people who made no changes to their diet or routine, but simply added Alpha-T2. Most of them were people in their 20s and 30s who were just looking to lose some weight without changing anything. Not a single one of these people noticed a decrease in strength or even a halting in their usual progress in the gym.
Let me also add that our dose of T2 is 150mcg 2-3x per day, which is on the low to normal side, as I have seen people take 300-600mcg 3x per day, which will illicit different effects in itself.
07-29-2010, 03:03 PM
I am not doubting that it works I guess I just come for a different world. I am what I would call above average built (get some notice in the gym) and trying to get a true bodybuilder look. I am more familiar with the true hardcore side of things (T3 in this discussion) and like the researched nature of that angle of the game.
I guess I can continue to research and post here. I forget the other member here who is big into the science side of it, I will try to find it and have him post (was there someone working with your company on here I might be thinking of?)
07-29-2010, 08:45 PM
I see where you're coming from though. People who are training like/to look like a true competing bodybuilder must take a different angle at everything than even an advanced lifter
07-29-2010, 09:40 PM
I will say one thing... The synephrine definitely overpowers the a-yoh for me which is good because I have a paradoxical reaction to a-yoh but love the synephrine. I assume my body will stop reacting to it soon... like always.
01-02-2011, 06:57 PM
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