Propecia/Finasteride - Inhibit Muscle Growth/Strength?

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    Propecia/Finasteride - Inhibit Muscle Growth/Strength?


    Hey guys

    (yes mashed is back!)

    Anyway, got me some Propecia (generic finasteride) and am dosing at 1.25mg per day.

    Now my question here is (and nowhere seems to have a straight up answer), is this:

    Finasteride works at preventing hair loss by inhibiting DHT formation (by blocking Type II 5-alpha-reductase)...correct?

    Now from what I can remember DHT may stimulate growth by inhibiting skeletal muscle protein degradation rates or something of the sort.

    Question here is, is finasteride likely to cause any noticeable decrease in muscle growth/strength or ability to increase muscle strength and mass etc ?

    I cant find any solid evidence to support either answer (yes or no) so im curious as to your thoughts and anyone who is currently using finasteride for hair loss.

    Reps for good answers!

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    I've actually read before that it causes a slight GAIN at first but that eventually goes away. It can mess up your libido though, so be careful. Seems like its hit or miss on the libido part. I myself noticed that when I took it that I did not desire sex as much and that when I did getting off did not feel as good and there was a definite lower volume of ejaculate per orgasm. At that time in my life though I was at an early age(21) and I really wanted to be able to preform as good as I possibly could sexually so I stopped taking it and started cutting my hair shorter and have had no problems with the ladies since. Would it help my "self" confidence I have didn't have a receding hairline. Sure Id be thrilled...but Id rather just have good sex.
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    First of all, good luck with the finasteride. I know some have great success with it, some have horror stories.

    Deceases in libido are, IMO, due to a subsequent increase in E2 caused by the decreased DHT.

    DHT is your most androgenic hormone, responsible for "manliness", and you are lowering it. If you're not watching everything else, you could be in for trouble.

    I cannot, for the life of me, understand how physicians dispense such a powerful endocrine disruptor without monitoring labs. Would you take arimidex/testosterone without regard to labs?

    If you don't have the "horror story" sides (which could or could not be real, I don't know), I think you need to monitor what you're doing.
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    How about taking a strong AI with Finasteride like Letrozole. Wouldn't that increase free testosterone while also inhibiting its conversion to DHT and preventing a rise in estrogen?
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    Finasteride increases testosterone, and everything else that test breaks down to with the exception being DHT of course. Since the portion of test that normally would convert to DHT doesn't, it remains as test and can still convert to its other metabolites. Though as noted above levels of DHT that're too low can lead to possible negative issues as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    Finasteride increases testosterone, and everything else that test breaks down to with the exception being DHT of course. Since the portion of test that normally would convert to DHT doesn't, it remains as test and can still convert to its other metabolites. Though as noted above levels of DHT that're too low can lead to possible negative issues as well.
    Well said. Precisely why I think it's important to monitor. Not everybody converts metabolites the same way.

    I think docs should administer finasteride like TRT - which, in a sense, it is.

    Baseline labs, dose the 1 mg, recheck labs in 6 weeks, add ancillaries as needed.
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    Rick 'hit the nail on the head', so to speak, in terms of Finasteride - the results can be incredibly variable. I have heard everything from non-response, to re-growth, to soul-crushing libido effects.
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    thanks guys, I actually stopped the Fin due to libido loss (extreme at the lowest dose) and instead opted for topical spiro and minox.
    Those two work just as well, if not better (seeing some peach fuzz on the temples again ...wooo and no more hair loss.)

    The Spiro seems to do the trick at 2x daily application for stopping further hair loss and the minox works great at re-growth.

    Took me about 2 weeks to get the libido back after stopping fin. Guess its not for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MashedPotato View Post
    thanks guys, I actually stopped the Fin due to libido loss (extreme at the lowest dose) and instead opted for topical spiro and minox.
    Those two work just as well, if not better (seeing some peach fuzz on the temples again ...wooo and no more hair loss.)

    The Spiro seems to do the trick at 2x daily application for stopping further hair loss and the minox works great at re-growth.

    Took me about 2 weeks to get the libido back after stopping fin. Guess its not for me.
    My god......it lives!!

    Welcome back mashed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    My god......it lives!!

    Welcome back mashed!
    I wonder if he had Poopy with him too...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    I wonder if he had Poopy with him too...
    Yeah i need to hit him up and see where the h*ll he's been!

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    Quote Originally Posted by spigot View Post
    How about taking a strong AI with Finasteride like Letrozole. Wouldn't that increase free testosterone while also inhibiting its conversion to DHT and preventing a rise in estrogen?

    And, in fact, many who take exo T use finasteride and arimidex with great success at minimizing side effects, even at higher doses of T.

    That said, there are some theories out there that put forth different mechanisms by which fina can affect libido.

    I have some MPB and am on TRT. I would love to take it. But the possibilities scare the hell out of me.

    I also use spiro (once a day) and minoxidil. I have maintained pretty well, but still see some thinning in the crown. I can't wait til they come out with some of the newer product in clinical studies (or hair cloning!!)
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    I've been on finasteride for over 3 months now. I've grown some hair back, but libido has gone down, not so far down that I'm worried about it. Before I'd get horny all the time. Now I only get that way when I need to. It's kind of nice, actually.

    Muscle growth or strength hasn't been inhibited, I don't think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger1 View Post
    I've been on finasteride for over 3 months now. I've grown some hair back, but libido has gone down, not so far down that I'm worried about it. Before I'd get horny all the time. Now I only get that way when I need to. It's kind of nice, actually.

    Muscle growth or strength hasn't been inhibited, I don't think.
    My libido was so far lost that the idea of sex made my penis shrivel....

    Ok..maybe a SLIGHT exagertation, but libido was so low it made me feel crappy. This new combo is the sh!t though.

    Rug, you may want to try getting azelaic acide with minoxidil

    It also helps further reduce DHT in the scalp. I use the AZELAIC ACID with MINOX in the morning and SPIRO in the evening. My hair can get kind of "gel" like, so i spike it into a mohawk.....looks cool, rather than just greasy/gel like.

    I get my stuff from wholesalehairproducts.com. The Minox and AZELIC acid is a hair saver.

    The spiro cream doesnt smell either which is a plus.

    You can check out Big V's thread in the steroid section. Nice info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    My god......it lives!!

    Welcome back mashed!
    Indeed it does.

    Thanks Trauma btw
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    Quote Originally Posted by MashedPotato View Post
    My libido was so far lost that the idea of sex made my penis shrivel....

    Ok..maybe a SLIGHT exagertation, but libido was so low it made me feel crappy. This new combo is the sh!t though.

    Rug, you may want to try getting azelaic acide with minoxidil

    It also helps further reduce DHT in the scalp. I use the AZELAIC ACID with MINOX in the morning and SPIRO in the evening. My hair can get kind of "gel" like, so i spike it into a mohawk.....looks cool, rather than just greasy/gel like.

    I get my stuff from wholesalehairproducts.com. The Minox and AZELIC acid is a hair saver.

    The spiro cream doesnt smell either which is a plus.

    You can check out Big V's thread in the steroid section. Nice info.
    Good stuff, do you use all 3 ED?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    Good stuff, do you use all 3 ED?
    Yeah.

    Spiro is one product
    Minox and AZ acid is in same bottle

    So technically 2 products. Its really no hassle at all. Take 15-30 seconds to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MashedPotato View Post
    Indeed it does.

    Thanks Trauma btw
    Well......i try.

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    I was taking TRT at one time and because of hairloss I started taking Avodart...this made the TRT virtually useless as ALL positive effects were loss (muscle gains and libido boost stopped) I did manage to stop shedding but I could keep my hair without spending dough on TRT which wasnt doing anything once avodart was added anyway.
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    I've been on Propecia for over a year. Hair loss is completely stopped and I've seen no loss of libido whatsoever.

    As far as muscle/strength, I've been more serious about my training the last year and both are way up, so worst case I dont see it adversely impacting gains.

    It mystifies me how different things impact people with such major deviations in effect.
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    some of you guys have clearly been on the crack pipe....from doctor reports and studies. finastride has a twist, around 1 percent of users have either erectile dysfunction, gynecomastia (breast gland enlargement). from using it!....... finastride at 1mg only has been shown to affect mens hair growth. never though has it been known that someone who lost there hair grew it back! its known to impede ones hair growth. it does stop it and slow it down but thats it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmanavar View Post
    some of you guys have clearly been on the crack pipe....from doctor reports and studies. finastride has a twist, around 1 percent of users have either erectile dysfunction, gynecomastia (breast gland enlargement). from using it!....... finastride at 1mg only has been shown to affect mens hair growth. never though has it been known that someone who lost there hair grew it back! its known to impede ones hair growth. it does stop it and slow it down but thats it.

    False. My hair grew back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmanavar View Post
    some of you guys have clearly been on the crack pipe....from doctor reports and studies. finastride has a twist, around 1 percent of users have either erectile dysfunction, gynecomastia (breast gland enlargement). from using it!....... finastride at 1mg only has been shown to affect mens hair growth. never though has it been known that someone who lost there hair grew it back! its known to impede ones hair growth. it does stop it and slow it down but thats it.
    Also have to disagree. In many men, hair loss is often as perceived as it is real. The hair follicles actually begin to "starve" so to speak and shrink in size giving an appearance of less hair even if the number of follicles is the same. Fina has definitely been proven to fill these follicles out again. Regardless of if it generates new follicles or not (which is debated), the net effect is the same, you have more hair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugger View Post
    False. My hair grew back.
    so did mine,big time.... check out my pics. sex what sh!tty though. now with topical dht blockers do topicals lower blood dht levels significantly? The reason i ask this is because minoxdil lowers blood pressure even when applied topically. when i was on fina it seemed like my chest for fatter not glandular growth but just fat tissue around the chest valcularity was down too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by repmks View Post
    so did mine,big time.... check out my pics. sex what sh!tty though. now with topical dht blockers do topicals lower blood dht levels significantly? The reason i ask this is because minoxdil lowers blood pressure even when applied topically. when i was on fina it seemed like my chest for fatter not glandular growth but just fat tissue around the chest valcularity was down too.
    depends what mate... some do go systemic some don't.

    Keep an eye on RPN's forum - they have something called virile mane on the way out (write up should appear soon now that the olympia is over) and it sounds like it might fit the bill perfectly for you.

    minoxidil *shouldn't* have much effect on blood pressure unless much more than the 1ml is used - the amount that can enter the blood is way below the effective dose used for lowering BP. Not to say it won't though, everyone reacts differently. I personally use about 3ml once per day (diffuse thinning = pain in the arse) and blood pressure has been unaffected. It's actually slightly up on last year. Go figure lol.

    and yeah, as the others have said fin can indeed grow back hair for some. Thickening of existing hair is the main mechanism of improvement though.
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    Hey guys, Propecia (finistride) is posion, dont ever take it. Talking from experince, the side effects will come up gradually. Propecia does help help hair, that true, but the negative effects far outweigh the positive effects. I have always been slim, at 9st, trained 3 to 4 months about 18 months ago, and put on a 1stone in muscle. Now after taking propecia, train harder, eating more, but can put the same size at all, muscles are less hard, and have a slight lower belly, and I am exhausted most of the time. Other people have reported major side effects, sexually etc, so anyone thinking getting this, please dont. If ur hair goes, it goes man! DHT levels are lowered significantly.
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    Hmmm, got on this finasteride a few weeks ago. No sides, yet... Doc gave me script for 5 mg once a day starting out.

    No 1mg from him, lol. MPB in family is strong. Minoxidil only slowed down the loss for the past 9 to 10 months. I will watch med sides carefully since I can handle going bald better than anything else...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mildot View Post
    Hmmm, got on this finasteride a few weeks ago. No sides, yet... Doc gave me script for 5 mg once a day starting out.

    No 1mg from him, lol. MPB in family is strong. Minoxidil only slowed down the loss for the past 9 to 10 months. I will watch med sides carefully since I can handle going bald better than anything else...
    Dude, drop it down to 1mg. 5mg is total overkill and the only reason your doc prescribed 5mg was so that you could get the generic Proscar for cheap and have it covered by your insurance (insurance companies won't cover the 1mg Propecia tab for hairloss as it is a cosmetic issue, but they will cover the 5mg Proscar tab for "prostate enlargement"). You're just throwing the stuff away and risking higher side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    Dude, drop it down to 1mg. 5mg is total overkill and the only reason your doc prescribed 5mg was so that you could get the generic Proscar for cheap and have it covered by your insurance (insurance companies won't cover the 1mg Propecia tab for hairloss as it is a cosmetic issue, but they will cover the 5mg Proscar tab for "prostate enlargement"). You're just throwing the stuff away and risking higher side effects.
    Gator has it right. There are NO benefits to taking such a high dosage. Your doctor is saving you a ton of cash by letting you buy Proscar or generic Finasteride 5mg which is inexplicably much cheaper than 1mg Propecia. Buy a pill splitter and cut it into quarters so your dosage will be 1.25mg. That's pretty much what everyone does.
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    I'm an older guy been on either finasteride or dutasteride for about 12 years for BOTH male pattern hairloss and prostatic hypertrophy. I'm more of a strength and endurance athlete, not into bulking up. (XC ski racing and Mtn bike racing) I noticed that on smaller doses (finasteride 1-2mg daily or dutasteride .5mg every 3 or 4 days) I didn't seem to notice effects on fat deposition or endurance but over the past two years I have upped the dose (because prostate problem is a bit worse...waking up at night to pee etc) and have noticed more abdominal fat and slight endurance loss in spite of just as much or more exercise.
    I too wonder about deliterous effect of lack of DHT on muscle. Manufacturer says DHT mainly present in skin, hair and prostate, but if its present here it must also be present in muscle and other cells. Unfortunately no studies in medical literature that I could find, just anecdotal reports like mine and others posted. I don't think deliterous effects are huge. I think they're more subtle which is why its going to take some time to answer question definitively. Personaly, I think I'm going to go back to a lower dose and if my prostate flares back up I'll start on other prostate meds that work a different way (ie flomax) or else have surgery.
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    That stuff is BAD NEWS, systematic dht is not something you want to reduce in a male body for mere cosmetic issues. This stuff has very real irreversable sexual side effects. Without normal DHT levels don't expect to feel great, as in serious lethargy. It's a very important CNS stimulator, that strengthens the immune system, and provides males with needed aggression, and vitality. DHT balances estrogen in the body, when you reduce it, an imbalance occurs. This will cause estrogen to dominate, and cause weight gain around the hips, breast enlargement, water retention, and emotional changes. Your body is slowly turning into a woman, is the reality of it. You will lose your hair one day no matter what you do, if its in your genetic disposition. This is not something you can prevent, but can only delay. Search the internet on the subject, it's there.
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    finasteride decreases test count and dht and thus increases estrogen. u will lose muscle if u r on it 4 a long time..........
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellsoci View Post
    finasteride decreases test count and dht and thus increases estrogen. u will lose muscle if u r on it 4 a long time..........
    This is not a true statement.

    Finasteride inhibits the conversion of testosterone into DHT by blocking the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. This actually causes an INCREASE in testosterone, because your Test is being "saved" from conversion into DHT.

    I've been on finasteride for nearly 10 years, and I had my testosterone levels checked in January for the first time (before I'd run any cycles of anything) and my Test levels were at 749, and I'm 37.
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    greaser, did you test dht and estrogen too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramschi View Post
    greaser, did you test dht and estrogen too?
    No, but I'll be getting bloodwork for testosterone and estrodiol in a few weeks for PCT. But this is coming off a run of Hdrol and Dermacrine, so I don't think the numbers will say much about the effect of Finasteride.
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    Propecia is POISON. I've been off the drug for 8 years since I was 20..I'm about 28 now and still have persistent sexual side effects..NO libidio, no energy(Highly legarthis), GYNO, more FAT around my body....I only took it for 9 weeks..I noticed the sexual side effects on the 8-9th week and immediately stopped and haven't recovered.

    Go to propeciahelp.com if you don't believe me...1612 registered users.

    This stuff needs to be taken off the market for hairloss...For prostate issues, ok i can see the need if your older...For someone in their 20's, it's a ridiculous drug to take.

    There is plenty of articles stating how important DHT is for the Central Nervous system. Finasteride eventually negatively affects testosterone levels, LH, FSH, DHEA, Prolacitin, Free Testosterone, and Estrogen & Estradial(E2) levels.

    Again, if you don't believe me, go to propeciahelp.com and look at all of the hormone tests and bloodwork. There is plenty, trust me.

    Finasteride has proven to decimate DHT metabolites (3 alpha androstandiol glucoride)
    This is the DHT that is present in your prostate, testes, and spinal cord. Looking on the website, you will see many members with subnormal levels of 3-alpha androstandediol glucoride. It is the best marker for 5 AR II activity. Just checking DHT levels is not good enough because some of it is located in 5 AR I(30%). Finasteride blocks 5 AR II where (70%) of DHT is located in vital parts of the human body. We've done the research, countless days and nights...
  37. Senior Member
    monstermash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicJ View Post
    Propecia is POISON. I've been off the drug for 8 years since I was 20..I'm about 28 now and still have persistent sexual side effects..NO libidio, no energy(Highly legarthis), GYNO, more FAT around my body....I only took it for 9 weeks..I noticed the sexual side effects on the 8-9th week and immediately stopped and haven't recovered.

    Go to propeciahelp.com if you don't believe me...1612 registered users.

    This stuff needs to be taken off the market for hairloss...For prostate issues, ok i can see the need if your older...For someone in their 20's, it's a ridiculous drug to take.

    There is plenty of articles stating how important DHT is for the Central Nervous system. Finasteride eventually negatively affects testosterone levels, LH, FSH, DHEA, Prolacitin, Free Testosterone, and Estrogen & Estradial(E2) levels.

    Again, if you don't believe me, go to propeciahelp.com and look at all of the hormone tests and bloodwork. There is plenty, trust me.

    Finasteride has proven to decimate DHT metabolites (3 alpha androstandiol glucoride)
    This is the DHT that is present in your prostate, testes, and spinal cord. Looking on the website, you will see many members with subnormal levels of 3-alpha androstandediol glucoride. It is the best marker for 5 AR II activity. Just checking DHT levels is not good enough because some of it is located in 5 AR I(30%). Finasteride blocks 5 AR II where (70%) of DHT is located in vital parts of the human body. We've done the research, countless days and nights...
    Agree 100%.

    propecia = poison.
  38. New Member
    gainsvillian's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried Polysorbate 80?
  39. New Member
    hinds sauce's Avatar
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    need help


    Now This is the stuff that scares me.


    Here is my deal, I am fatty mc fat face/newbie. I have let myself go for about 7 years. I have been so busy with my career, Marriage, Kids that I have just fd up. The Wife just had baby #3 and it is time for me to get after it. I changed my diet to clean meals, and have been working out. So far since 4-16 I have dropped from 252 to 239(not great i know). I have high cholesterol so I am worried about what to take.
    First i was thinking of taking a cleanse. Anyone heard or taken the Herbal Cleanse from advocare?
    after the 10 day cleanse i'm gonna run cycle assist+inhibit-e+alpha-t2+jack3d
    in may i head back to the field and i will be super busy again but I plan on fitting in 4 days a week + for the gym and workouts.

    I need some ideas and or critiques plus anything else i should be taking such as pcts or even diff products. anyone got any ideas?

    Help me cut it!
  40. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeboatski View Post
    I too wonder about deliterous effect of lack of DHT on muscle. Manufacturer says DHT mainly present in skin, hair and prostate, but if its present here it must also be present in muscle and other cells. Unfortunately no studies in medical literature that I could find, just anecdotal reports like mine and others posted.
    DHT is deactivated almost immediately in skeletal muscle (I forget the name of the enzyme responsible), which is why it is not anabolic. However, it is important for the CNS, which controls your muscular coordination and power output.
  

  
 

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