Alternatives to Warfarin / Long term studies?

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    Alternatives to Warfarin / Long term studies?


    My girl has had a couple of Blood clots and has been told they are as a result of a condition called Factor 5 Laden (sp?). She has been taking warfarin for about 3 years now and the dosage seems to be rising slowly. She is only 25 and is now up to 12mg a day.

    I am interested in if there are any better options or alternatives.

    I have seen a bunch of studies saying that warfarin is fine but they are all resonably short studies (5 years max) and low dosage for the elderly.

    Would be particularly interested in hearing Dr D's opinion on this.

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    Unfortunately, there is a reason why she is taking warfarin for the long-term. In Factor V Leiden cases where patients have many clotting events that have occured or have a risk for future clotting events, long-term therapy is needed. Heparins and low molecular weight heparins are an option to warfarin but they are injected and thus warfarin, as an oral drug, is prefferable. Long-term warfarin therapy is only somewhat associated with adverse events, usually being a hemmorage. What i have gathered the highest population percentage in a study was 3%. I must agree that the dosage is quite high, but there must be some reason that the doctor has opted for this dose. What i would reccomend is talk with her physician about any concerns you or she may have.
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    tbonz 169, thanks for your response. I am aware of heparin but thought it was used in slightly different settings. Thanks for your view though greatly appreciated.
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    The heprin is good stuff, I know there is an oral version for kids that you swish in your mouth. Asprin works well too. I'd stick with the Coumadin though, it's tried and true. The doc bases the dose on her INR value, so if it takes 12mg to put her in range, that's OK, she's young and that's common. Old people respond to much lower doses usually. Her INR should be between 2.0 and 3.5 and it's not uncommon for the doses to increase with time and then start to decrease at a certain point. If she is bruising excessively or even if she's not, a Vit.C/bioflavinoid combo helps a lot. I've seen it work before like this, improves capillary perm. w/out disrupting therapy. These drugs don't bust clots, they just keep them from growing, so she's probably in good shape if she takes her doses consistently. There are studies showing an increase in bone fractures with long term use, but she has an inherited thrombophilia so she's going to need the warf for the rest of her life probably. Plus, the studies probably looked at a lot of older pateints, so she wouldn't need to worry about this yet. Just start finding ways to make it livable because she really needs it. I have a friend (he's 30) on it 2 years now, I'll ask him if he has any insights and I'll keep watch for new info concerning her condition. If I find anything new on long term sides, I'll let you know. Honestly, warf. has a good reputation long term, from what little I know about it. It's an old drug that's still the first choice of most docs, that usually means a good safety record. God bless you both.
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    Thanks very much Dr D. Any further information you come across would be gratefully received.
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    She needs it so I am not advocating not taking it. Her life depends on it, but I personally will not touch pharmaceutical drugs unless it is an emergency. I was on the mildest high blood pressure drug hydrochlorothiazide at the lowest dose and it nearly totally depleted my potassium and magnesium and gave me a near fatal heart arrythmia. Then they switched me to atenolol and I didn't want to even get out of bed. Then some calcium channel blocker that made my ankles look like a pregnant woman's. Then I got in to alternative treatments. I spend about 60 bucks a month on herbs but my blood pressure has gone from 160/100 down to 130/84. And no side effects.

    However this was after researching a year and actually getting certified as an herbalist.

    Warafin does stop the clots but at the expense of vitamin K and Co-Enzyme Q10 if I am not mistaking. Vitamin K is responsible for blood clotting and it is not her friend now so don't worry about that, but Co-Enzyme Q10 is vital to cardiovascular function and will not interact with the blood thinner so I would recommend she buys a supplement. 50-200 mgs is fine.
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    Lozgod, thanks for your response. Yes I am aware of the relationship with Vitamin K, looked at her supplimenting with CoQ10 but apparently there could be adverse reactions.
    She has her INR level checked about once every two weeks (should maintain 2.5).

    I am a little reassured now that long term therapy is not that detrimental but would still be interested in hearing about suppliments that may be benifical, and any other users feedback.
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    Hello i am new here and i also take a blood thinner i had two DVT's one in my left and right leg and Pulmonary embolisms. I am always tired and was told to not workout real extensively. It has only been 10mths since i have been out of the hospital and on the thinner in that time i have gained to much weight i am 310lbs and need advice on supplements. I feel for your daughter and wish you luck this has been hard for e my INR is always changing and they have to redo my dosages something i have to live with for the rest of my life.
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    Research nattokinase as a potential adjunct therapy and discuss it with your Dr. I won't chime in beyond that due to the seriousness of these conditions.
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    What is your take on pycnogenol ?
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    Not too versed on that one.
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    I know this post is seriously old, but came across it as a patient on warfarin (coumadin). Lumbrokinase actually breaksdown clots MUCH better than nattokinase. Lumbrokinase made by Boluoke is px med in CAD and China. Talk to your hematologist about it.
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    Sorry to derail this thread for ONE SECOND but where in the heck did Dr D disappear to?



    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    The heprin is good stuff, I know there is an oral version for kids that you swish in your mouth. Asprin works well too. I'd stick with the Coumadin though, it's tried and true. The doc bases the dose on her INR value, so if it takes 12mg to put her in range, that's OK, she's young and that's common. Old people respond to much lower doses usually. Her INR should be between 2.0 and 3.5 and it's not uncommon for the doses to increase with time and then start to decrease at a certain point. If she is bruising excessively or even if she's not, a Vit.C/bioflavinoid combo helps a lot. I've seen it work before like this, improves capillary perm. w/out disrupting therapy. These drugs don't bust clots, they just keep them from growing, so she's probably in good shape if she takes her doses consistently. There are studies showing an increase in bone fractures with long term use, but she has an inherited thrombophilia so she's going to need the warf for the rest of her life probably. Plus, the studies probably looked at a lot of older pateints, so she wouldn't need to worry about this yet. Just start finding ways to make it livable because she really needs it. I have a friend (he's 30) on it 2 years now, I'll ask him if he has any insights and I'll keep watch for new info concerning her condition. If I find anything new on long term sides, I'll let you know. Honestly, warf. has a good reputation long term, from what little I know about it. It's an old drug that's still the first choice of most docs, that usually means a good safety record. God bless you both.
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    Interesting. Ive heard of NAtto and researched it plenty. Even got dad on it.

    Never heard of Lumbrokinase.

    Quote Originally Posted by li20784 View Post
    I know this post is seriously old, but came across it as a patient on warfarin (coumadin). Lumbrokinase actually breaksdown clots MUCH better than nattokinase. Lumbrokinase made by Boluoke is px med in CAD and China. Talk to your hematologist about it.
    A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
    "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"
    Proverbs 1:7
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