Diphenhydramine and the blunted GH response
07-05-2009 12:25 AM
Diphenhydramine and the blunted GH response
Could taking a GH enhancer such as L-DOPA or GABA along with diphenhydramine possibly work against the GH blunting effects that it has? I found this study, but I'm not really smart enough to know what it is saying.
To elucidate further the role of histamine in pituitary regulation, TRH and L-DOPA stimulation tests were performed with and without diphenhydramine, cimetidine, or betazole pre-treatment. Betazole blunted the GH response to L-DOPA and slightly enhanced the T3 response to TRH without altering the TSH or PRL increments. Neither diphenhydramine nor cimetidine had any acute effect on the hormonal responses examined. Histamine appears to play only a limited role in these aspects of human pituitary regulation.
07-05-2009 06:31 AM
can anyone explain what this means in english. is there clear relation between histamine products or sleep aids and fat loss/muscle gain?
07-06-2009 01:48 AM
It says that diphenhydramine has no effect on your hormonal or GH output. I've been taking 400mg a night for years to help with my extreme insomnia (yes 400) and it has never affected my gains.
07-06-2009 10:24 AM
If anything it will help you sleep deeper and produce more GH.
Also taking a sleed aid helps prolong the effects of stimulants like caffeine by upregulating your receptor sites. (at least in theory).
07-07-2009 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by h22t88
Wow, so its just a myth that diph affects GH? That sure is reassuring because during this last school year I was taking 75-100 mg every night because I workout at night and also take stims preworkout. Without it I couldn't fall asleep fast enough. Thanks for your responses.
Originally Posted by Raptorbh12
09-06-2009 06:14 PM
This report found no effect on Gh output, I have read others where they DID find a connection. Personally I have a hard time sleeping always and any stims or anabolics make it much harder but if I take dipenhydramine it really makes me feel like I have no recovery all night. I wake up and I feel so flat and tired, but most of all I am weak in the gym. If it didnt make me feel this way I would take it every night because 8-9 hrs of sleep it just so awesome.
BTW the OP is a legit article from Journal of Clinical Endocrinology, but it is also from 1979 lol :P
Here is another source that has more info than you ever wanted from 1999
(Can't post links yet so heres the reference:
Physiological Reviews, Vol. 79, No. 2, April 1999, pp. 511-607
Copyright ©1999 by the American Physiological Society)
The role of histamine on GH release in the rat is still debated, but most of the evidence points to inhibition by H1 receptors. In conscious rats, intracerebroventricular administration of histamine or a series of H1-receptor agonists reduced GH release induced by morphine; mepyramine, a H1-receptor antagonist, had no effect by itself but prevented the inhibitory action of 2-methylhistamine, a H1-receptor agonist. The H2-receptor agonists and antagonists also inhibited morphine-induced GH release but apparently with a nonspecific mechanism (776). Similarly, nanomolar intracerebroventricular doses of histamine or amodiaquine, an inhibitor of histamine catabolism, caused a dose-related suppression of pulsatile GH secretion (775).
At odds with these findings, in E2- and progesterone-primed anesthetized male rats, a H1-receptor antagonist blocked the rise in GH induced by morphine, neurotensin, and SP, with a mechanism that could not be related simply to the hypotensive properties of these substances (891).
The inhibitory effect of histamine neurotransmission on GH release has since been illustrated in neonatal and adult rats. In the former, blockade of histamine synthesis with -fluoromethylhistidine (-FMH) significantly raised plasma GH and potentiated the GH response to an enkephalin analog; GH and SS mRNA were significantly higher in -FMH-treated pups, whereas GHRH mRNA levels were unaltered. In young adult male rats, acute administration of -FMH did not change baseline GH levels but potentiated the enkephalin-induced stimulation of GH secretion. Repeated intracerebroventricular doses of -FMH did not alter the hormone levels, significantly reduced hypothalamic GHRH mRNA, and left SS and GHmRNA unchanged (439). Overall, these findings suggest an inhibitory histamine tone on GH secretion in neonatal and adult young rats, the failure of -FMH to increase GH secretion in the latter being probably due to upregulation of histamine receptors after brain histamine depletion (862).
Data in freely moving dogs point instead to a facilitatory role on GH secretion. Of the three H1-receptor antagonists used, only clemastine, which reportedly has no antiserotoninergic, antiadrenergic, and anticholinergic action, blunted hypoglycemia-induced GH release (626), whereas diphenhydramine, clemastine, and the H2-receptor antagonist cimetidine, respectively, suppressed or blunted the cGH release induced by an opioid peptide (174) or by cholinergic stimulation (100).
Basically, looks like under experimental condition H1 receptor antagonist like dipenhydramine will block GH stimulation from all sources except hypoglycemia induced secretion. I dont know which of these sources best emulates the spike of GH induced as sleep begins, but this short segment really references a lot of experiments that mostly point towards diphendydramine inhibiting GH production.
09-30-2009 12:52 AM
subbed for future reference
09-30-2009 07:41 PM
yeah this definately makes sense that diphedramine could blunt the gh response.
"Like many other first-generation antihistamines, diphenhydramine is a potent anticholinergic agent. "
Supplements like alpha-gpc(which boosts acetycholine levels) in a study, has been proven to boost growth hormone.
It probally does this because it has a pro-cholergenic effect, it increases choline in the brain.
Between all the studies u can find on the web, it would make sense that benadryl could blunt growth hormone response.
Personally i have found that cholerginc agents, (known as nootropics), increase my wakedness, and memory. While benadryl does that exact opposite. I use both on a regular basis.
Huperzine A, Alpha-gpc, and and nicotine will all retard the effects of benadryl.(yes nicotine effects actylcholine, and thats why it improves your memory)
Any of these, is good to partially get out of benadryl induced morning groginess.
Taking both at the time, by my accounts is pointless, because u wont get the positive benefits of either.
11-26-2009 06:25 AM
Would taking Phosphatidylserine in the dayime help balance out cognitive function of taking dipenhydramine at night?
11-27-2009 11:32 PM
thats a good supp but expensive in terms of what it can do. And it really wouldnt benefit u here anyway.
Originally Posted by The Gasman UK
I would go for some hupersine-A or Alpha-gpc. Alpha GPC is more expensive one, but i think it has less sides, and a shorter half-live. These supps work through the acetylcholine pathway. This is sort the opposite effect that dipenhydramine has.
Nicotine works too, for you to know, not that you should take. It also works through the acetylcholine pathway, in a different manner.
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