pain killers + muscle growth - AnabolicMinds.com

pain killers + muscle growth

  1. wbted23's Avatar
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    pain killers + muscle growth


    Ok so I know that muscle growth occurs when small tears are created in the muscle as you work out, and the muscle is expanded in size as these tears are repaired. That is a very simplified explanation of course, but that is kind of the bare minimum summary.

    So my question is if painkillers, meaning basic anit-inflammatorys and other otc's like tylenol or advil can interfere with this process.

    This question probable stems from me having no clue exactly how such painkillers work, and effect your body, but this is merely a point of interest that I have been wondering about. I very rarely use any pain killers or otc meds, but I was thinking about this and couldnt help but ask.

    Any ideas?

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    I HAVE NO IDEA. Opinion = any drug is destructive to muscles
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    NSAIDs lower the Adrogen receptors sensitivity to Androgens in........lower absorbtion of your test or cycle! plus it lowers prostoglandins the pro inflamation our body produces naturally which start a cascade of hormones being released into the tissue!
    •   
       

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    not to mention they CAN and DO cause ulcers...especially in the doses athletes take them. Ichiro has an ulcer right now and I have to believe NSAID's are the culprit. I've also heard they raise cortisol levels, cortisol being the body's main anti-inflammitory. cortisol = bad for our goals. I'd rather take tramadol every time I had a headache, but the FDA would rather us damage our bodies with toxic anti-inflammitories than let us have over the counter access to a harmless, mild, yet effective opiate. Got to love America.
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    tramadol is not actually an opiate
    Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general. -Rippetoe
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    so are opiates not damaging to are androgen receptors and all that. Not damaging to our goals??
  7. wbted23's Avatar
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    so by the sound of it, yes they do interfere with muscle growth?
  8. indianballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaOrleanyte View Post
    tramadol is not actually an opiate
    good call...I was always under the impression that it was a mild and synthetic opiate that acted on other systems as well. Now that I google it I see that it does act on opiod receptors, but clearly different in chemical structure from opiates. I guess the term I was goin for was analgesic. The government would rather us take physically harmful NSAID's that mild analgesics such as tramadrol or soma. Pisses me off, personally.
  9. indianballer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster0371 View Post
    so are opiates not damaging to are androgen receptors and all that. Not damaging to our goals??
    This is from a study by JP Sheridan and JM Buchanan (don't want to follow proper works cited protocol, sorry)

    Many heroin addicts and addicts on methadone treatment exhibit sexual dysfunction. It is believed that the primary site of action of the opiates is the hypothalamic-hypophyseal system. Although it is not known how the opiates might alter the hypothalamic-hypophyseal system, it has recently been suggested that the opiates might mimic the steroids by binding to steroid hormone receptors. To test this hypothesis, in vivo autoradiographic studies and in vitro biochemical studies were conducted to see if the binding of androgen to receptors in the central nervous system would be affected by the opiates. In the autoradiographic studies, animals were treated for 10 days with saline, morphine sulfate (50 mg/kg), or methadone hydrochloride (10 mg/kg) and then injected with 3H-dihydrotestosterone (DHT-0.5 microgram/100 grams body weight). The animals were killed 1 hour later and their brains were removed and processed for autoradiography. No significant effects of opiates on nuclear uptake and retention of androgen by the limbic system were found. In the in vitro binding studies, 3H-DHT (5 X 10(9) M) and 3H-estradiol (5 X 10(-9) M) were incubated with cytosol prepared from brain in the presence of varying concentrations of morphine sulfate (10(-3) - 10(-9) M) and methadone hydrochloride (10(-3) - 10(-9) M). Using three different assay systems (LH-20, hydroxylapatite, and sucrose density gradient centrifugation), no consistent effects of opiates on steroid binding to its receptor could be demonstrated. These data along with previously reported data suggest that the opiates do not induce sexual dysfunction by interacting with steroid receptors.


    IMO opiates are far less damaging to our bodies and goals than NSAID's. However, since they make one feel good, they must be bad and put under strict control laws. Our government wouldn't want our people feeling good or anything, they couldn't handle that.
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    lol true dat. i think the reason i cant bust a nut on vicodin or other opiates is because my **** is too numb. BUT IT IS SOLD AS A ROCK THOUGH.

    excuse my vulgarity
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    haha I know what you mean...especially if you're already on PH's...having an orgasm while taking opiates (which I, personally happen to be quite fond of) is a rare occurence. You become a stud as far as she's concerned though. That's a plus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianballer View Post
    haha I know what you mean...especially if you're already on PH's...having an orgasm while taking opiates (which I, personally happen to be quite fond of) is a rare occurence. You become a stud as far as she's concerned though. That's a plus.

    Hahahaha...AMEN to that! Had many an experience as well..hehe..but it has also been shown that the body heals itself faster when not in pain, so I would say that despite the liver toxicity the Opiate painkillers have (since most are mixed with Acetaminophen) should not effect your muscle growth....just F' up your liver.
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    I love a good 2 or 3 vicodin buzz as much as the next man but with everything we take that puts any bit of strain on our livers its risky to mix. Its that Acetaminophen sh!t. Honda or Sony needs to come out with the steel liver.
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    look at the wwf ..those guys abused steroids and painkiller for many years of their lives, they look alright
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    oxycontin makes me huge!
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    pros: i can last hours while slamin my chick
    cons: doesnt feel as good be atleast shes happy.... so not really a con
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    Have your doc prescribe you 10/325 norcos


    thank me later!

    (low acetaminophen, high opiate! **** those 5/500 bull****s!
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    heroin is the ultimate pain killer
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster0371 View Post
    heroin is the ultimate pain killer
    yea and we all know your sitting there smoking it right now
    disscusting.

    pain killers and working out dont mix

    A string of local college athletes have become hooked on prescription pain medication dating back to the 1980s. Some moved to cheaper street drugs like heroin. They begged, borrowed and stole to feed their habits. They washed out of sports and school. They ruined relationships. They landed in jail. At least two died.

    anyway your cutting one pain but gaining another either way
    ****s you up big time while working out
    weak muscles, injuries, muscle break down, etc. cant see damage as fast on the outside as the inside
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    you can get a crookid ddicck while your on that **** from beating it so many times dieing to bust your nut. :/
    hope you all get a crookid ****
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    Be happy you can take painkillers, much less use them to help you work out. Being allergic to 90% of them im stuck with extremely low doses of ibuprofen. lol
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    Opiates kill your appetite (at least mine.) They should only be used when they NEED to be used, not recreationally.

    Recreational use of opiates is basically playing with fire. If you think you can control the habit, think again!
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster0371 View Post
    heroin is the ultimate pain killer
    Yes when you overdose and die, there is truly no more pain.

    Except for your family and friends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbted23 View Post
    Ok so I know that muscle growth occurs when small tears are created in the muscle as you work out, and the muscle is expanded in size as these tears are repaired. That is a very simplified explanation of course, but that is kind of the bare minimum summary.

    So my question is if painkillers, meaning basic anit-inflammatorys and other otc's like tylenol or advil can interfere with this process.

    This question probable stems from me having no clue exactly how such painkillers work, and effect your body, but this is merely a point of interest that I have been wondering about. I very rarely use any pain killers or otc meds, but I was thinking about this and couldnt help but ask.

    Any ideas?
    To directly answer your question:

    opiates work off the opiate receptors in the brain and do not have anti-inflammatory properties.

    and I think the whole tylenol/advil thing hurting muscle gains is a bunch of BS. If I do a 20 rep squat day, no matter how many tylenol I take, I'm still going to hurt, and I'm still going to get huge.

    Thats-my-word
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    If you have a really foward thinking doctor you can get opiates w/o the NSAIDs mixed in! Just complain about stomach cramps or something an liver concerns! It's hard for them to prescribe because those prescriptions are watched like a hawk! The Goverment could care less about your liver they just dont want you hooked on opiates (then u dont work) ie no tax revenue
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigzach1234 View Post
    look at the wwf ..those guys abused steroids and painkiller for many years of their lives, they look alright
    True, but Christ knows how they get out of bed each morning and at what time. I would imagine, staggering and walking tippy toe all ***** up until they drink a hundred cups of coffee, sit on the couch forever and 3 days later they're ready for their match or TV interview.
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    Opiates do not have any effect on muscle growth. The reason why you see heroin addicts all skinny and run down is because of malnutrition. You don't give a **** about eating if you're an opiate (heroin, vicodin, oxy) addict. You nod off and and sleep pretty much 75% of the time. Getting your proper protein and workout for the day is the last thing on your mind, along with anything else besides getting your fix. It's a horrible horrible addiction. Opiates are seconded to benzos in terms of withdrawal symptoms which can even lead to death in some people without proper withdrawal treatment. Coupla vic's every now and then ain't a biggy, but don't make it a habit! Its very easy to build up a tolerance and dependence with opiates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianballer View Post
    This is from a study by JP Sheridan and JM Buchanan (don't want to follow proper works cited protocol, sorry)

    Many heroin addicts and addicts on methadone treatment exhibit sexual dysfunction. It is believed that the primary site of action of the opiates is the hypothalamic-hypophyseal system. Although it is not known how the opiates might alter the hypothalamic-hypophyseal system, it has recently been suggested that the opiates might mimic the steroids by binding to steroid hormone receptors. To test this hypothesis, in vivo autoradiographic studies and in vitro biochemical studies were conducted to see if the binding of androgen to receptors in the central nervous system would be affected by the opiates. In the autoradiographic studies, animals were treated for 10 days with saline, morphine sulfate (50 mg/kg), or methadone hydrochloride (10 mg/kg) and then injected with 3H-dihydrotestosterone (DHT-0.5 microgram/100 grams body weight). The animals were killed 1 hour later and their brains were removed and processed for autoradiography. No significant effects of opiates on nuclear uptake and retention of androgen by the limbic system were found. In the in vitro binding studies, 3H-DHT (5 X 10(9) M) and 3H-estradiol (5 X 10(-9) M) were incubated with cytosol prepared from brain in the presence of varying concentrations of morphine sulfate (10(-3) - 10(-9) M) and methadone hydrochloride (10(-3) - 10(-9) M). Using three different assay systems (LH-20, hydroxylapatite, and sucrose density gradient centrifugation), no consistent effects of opiates on steroid binding to its receptor could be demonstrated. These data along with previously reported data suggest that the opiates do not induce sexual dysfunction by interacting with steroid receptors.


    IMO opiates are far less damaging to our bodies and goals than NSAID's. However, since they make one feel good, they must be bad and put under strict control laws. Our government wouldn't want our people feeling good or anything, they couldn't handle that.
    IMO, no animal study could administer 50mg of an opiate (you cite morphine as the culprit) per kg of body weight as a guideline. Those animals would be sOOOOOO-high! E.g. your average rabbit used for human bio research tips the scales at around 4kg. If said bunny received 200mg of morphine per day for ten days, he'd turn into Elvis, bro, and any research would be skewed beyond relevant data points! Numbers also hold true for mice, if you prefer "murine" subjects.

    The typical beginning morphine sulphate dose per day for your 95kg male is about 20-40mg (immediate release form) per day for opioid naive patients. With 9,750mg of morphine...well, you get the picture.

    I think you meant .50mg/kg for the bunnies. Seems trivial, but numbers count when it comes to our bodies.
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    Research narcotics & estrogen/testosterone impact (very interesting read). Also, opiate induced constipation sucks, as does the bacterial flora imbalance in your intestines resulting from said constipation. I was on 160mg Oxycontin for a year (2 hip surgeries), and after the last day of physical therapy, it had been 6 months since my last erection, horrible constipation, I lost ALL of my muscle, gained 20 pounds of fat (not ****ing kidding)!, and after coming off the pills, you WILL be in horrible pain. Also, my estrogen levels were high. I was a moody bitch (crying HARD when those ASPCA commercials with the cats came on TV, etc.) No, it's just not worth it. And I know everybody starts by saying "everybody else was a bunch of losers, cause they couldn't control it. Well, I'm only gonna use on the weekends", etc. Well, it doesn't take long (as in 3 weekends) until you're using them on weekdays as well. All I can say is, I am SO glad to be done with them!
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    There is a thread called Marijuana and bodybuilding for people who love to get high and lift. Marijuna reduces pain a lot, and hoestly, it seems to help body building more than hurt it.(Anybody who whants to challenge this should check out the thread.) Opiates=not so much.
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    I can tell you first hand drugs namely H, used over a long time is not good on the liver and does not help actually slows muscle growth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heartless88 View Post
    you can get a crookid ddicck while your on that **** from beating it so many times dieing to bust your nut. :/
    hope you all get a crookid ****
    I loled...

    But seriously, meds can cut into protein synthesis up to 40 percent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buster0371 View Post
    oxycontin makes me huge!
    That's just an ignorant statement, oxycotton is a very dangerous drug, that can cause fatal contraindications if misused. It's nothing to joke around about, remember on an internet forum, some young kid may read that and think it's cool because a bodybuilder said so, and tells 10 friends he knows. Not cool bro, grow up.

    Thank-you...
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    N-SAIDS reduce inflamation in the body, this is the process that causes muscle growth. Simple as that really.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Opiate pain killers have led over half of my friends to terrible addictions, divorce, bankruptcy, and death-They are BAD!!!! Get off them FAST.........They do make for a fun night of good fu*#ing!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaOrleanyte View Post
    tramadol is not actually an opiate
    It is, however, an opioid referring to a synthetic instead of naturally occurring compound that is related to opiates (naturally occurring). The only difference between tramadol and other opioids such as codeine and morphine derivatives (hydrocodone, hydromorphone) is that it is a partial mu agonist instead of a pure mu agonist. But it is definitely an opioid.

    Opioids do have an effect on muscle growth though, they decrease testosterone quite a bit and hyperprolactinemia is often present with that as well.

    As for oxycontin it is actually less abusive than oxycodone it just gets a bad rap. Oxycontin is just the brand name for extended release oxycodone but the sustained release decreases abusive potential long term. Oxycodone (percocet) is highly addictive and sadly a lot of people take it chronically when they shouldn't be and they waste a lot of their lives.
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    inflammation is bad, yes its the bodys natural reaction to trauma but that doesnt really help you...why elevate, ice,rest etc a sprained ankle if that inflammation you are getting is actually your ankle tendons and muscles repairing themselves to better than before. Inflammation stops nutrients from getting to the affected area....using an anti infammitory like ibuprofen is a no brainier- A. you feel better while your healing, and B. it speeds recovery time....theres no real evidence that advil or whatever is bad for building muscle. Ive never had a problem and took 6 to 10 advil A DAY for weeks at a time......still huge.
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    Re: pain killers + muscle growth


    It seems everyone has a different opinion on this matter. I say as long as you use medications in moderation (i.e. when you actually need them) and keep your weekly routine of proper diet, exercise and rest there shouldn't be any issue.

    My 2¢
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    I have alot of prior injuries that some times limit my lifting because of inflammatory pain or discomfort. If i takes couple ibuprofen this relieving pain and inflammation then I lift much better when I have these occurrences which in turn helps build my strength. Maybe on some small level it inhibits muscle growth but as far as I can tell not as much as much as the pain in my bones(cold weather mostly triggers it) that limits mobility would. Abusing or over using is never a good thing but use to relieve a valid symptom in order to increase mobility and reduce inflammation seems more beneficial then harmful IMO. But I'm no doctor and I don't go around over analyzing case studies I dig up on the Internet so how would I know. I just do what feels right within reason and helps me preform better ;-) that's my rule of thumb .
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    Chronic opiate use will lower your testosterone level which will in turn make it much more difficult to gain muscle mass but the key word here is CHRONIC opiate use. The occasional opiate use should have relatively no effect on muscle mass besides the fact that you usually don't eat on opiates so it would make it a little harder to get those gains.
  

  
 

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