- 03-19-2009, 09:40 PM
So I'm planning on possibly seeing a psychiatrist soon, as I've been dealing with some issues lately and have fallen into a slight depression, which has only worsened during PCT, and has stuck around for about a month past the end of my PCT. If you've had it, you know what I'm talking about, where going to the gym doesn't make you feel better like normal, and overall funtioning becomes difficult. I've been on several anti-depressants in the past (Zoloft, Effexor, Lexapro, Wellbutrin) but never clicked with psychologists in therapy. I got off them about 2 years ago and told myself I would just handle things my own way, but it's becoming a little much again. My question is what is everyone's experience with anti-depressants and their conflicts, or lackthereof, with bodybuilding. I've made my best gains since coming off them completely, but I've also fine-tuned my diet, and run 3 PH cycles since then, so I can't say for sure how they effected me in the past. Anyone? Effexor gave me great energy, but anxiety increased significanly, and may or may not have stayed since, hard to say when it started, and I was too young to go to the doctor seeking benzos, so I gave up on that one too. Thoughts?
- 03-20-2009, 09:29 AM
If you want more energy and motivation, while simultaneously lowering anxiety to a high degree.... look into Stablon (tianeptine).
- 03-20-2009, 11:40 AM
I have taken Zoloft for or four years now and will probably until I die. I have nto had any sides to it liek gaining weight or sexual. I had more problems with my bp meds. Effexor almost killed me whenI was coming off it. I had a BAD serotonin crash when I forgot to take it on vacation. Never took it again. I took Lexipro for two days and had to stop because it would make me so out of it i couldn't do simple math or even fold a tea towel. (funny story)
it can be tough finding a counselor sometimes. You have to find one that you trust and can build a bit of a relationship with. Sometimes it is just as good to have a friend who will let you talk and just listen.
BTW: Stay away from alcohol when you are depressed. It will only make it worse.
03-20-2009, 12:45 PM
03-20-2009, 12:47 PM
And as for alcohol I rarely ever drink, and haven't been drunk in some time. After one DUI and one crashed car, I decided alcohol really wasn't my drug of choice.
03-20-2009, 12:57 PM
03-20-2009, 01:09 PM
03-20-2009, 01:30 PM
Never tried it...must be next to impossible to find now, it's been discontinued for a while. It mostly acts on dopamine right?
Stablon, at the right dose, really brightens your mood and personally makes me pretty talkative and open, as opposed to how SSRI's make you tired and cloudy at times. It's also surprising how Stablon acts as an anxiolytic (reduces anxiety). For me it was better than benzos. Overall smoother and brighter feeling, but at the proper doses I could easily be dropping $200 per month on it.
03-20-2009, 01:33 PM
03-20-2009, 01:36 PM
The problem with most anti-depressants is that if you don't have insurance, and since the federal government is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the health cartels, you'll pay 150-300 per month.
03-20-2009, 01:46 PM
I am currently on wellbutrin and abilify. I like the fact that wellbutrin, as a ssdi, doesn't screw with my manhood. It also has been the final nail in my smoking habit, made cigs taste different, and was finally able to stop completely fairly recently. The abilify has stabilized my mood better than anything I've taken in the past. No energy or anything like that, but I'm able to tolerate(lol) people that I would normally want to destroy. Maybe a bit excessive, but I feel good no matter what happens,like whatever is going to be, is going to be! I haven't noticed any adverse reactions as far as gains go.
Think training's hard,. try losing!
03-20-2009, 04:56 PM
thanks for the replies fellas...Bonscott brings up the biggest issue for me with medication or not. At 17, the combination of trying zoloft for the first time and a superdrol cycle or 2, killed my libido and performance completely for a while (Talk about traumatic experiences and what not). Since that time, with proper PCT and a little more attention to the endocrine system I've recovered a decent amount of natural test production, and I'm not sure if I want to jeopordize that again to try some anti-depressants. Wellbutrin didn't hurt me either in that reguard, but I just didn't like or notice what it, or any of them for that matter, did for me really.
03-20-2009, 11:20 PM
I've been on lexapro for almost a year.
You could try starting a log (sorry if you already have one) and talking. I talk in my log (no one ever answers though, lol)
we're all here to support each other, and help each other.
body building is a big brother hood. like a fraternity where your dues are paid in the gym.
03-21-2009, 01:31 AM
That's a cool way of putting it. It's true though there's always a mutual respect when you see other big guys or really fit guys..especially in the gym. People who have obviously spent much time training and maintained a legitimate commitment to something for some time, which is a commendable trait in someone, and when you can see it from their physique...wtf is wrong with me anyways...yeah my head is scrambled, obviously. Has anyone with depressive symptoms had experience with adderall? love the energy with that stuff.
03-21-2009, 01:34 AM
although from reading your posts i will say this, everything i've read says when you go off cycle, your hormones are so off balance it throws you into a depression, even if your taking a strong and effective pct.
03-21-2009, 02:14 AM
Yeah I'd say that's accurate, although I haven't completely blamed it on the steroids, I see and agree with what you're suggesting. That's why I want to go talk to someone and get things out on the table with a therapist and get level headed and stable before I go back on (hopefully this summer, but have all the time in the world to wait). Could these hormone swings be a result of starting too young? Possibly a non-responder to Nolva, which has been the main, and only anti-estrogen in many many PCT's of mine thus far. Who knows.
03-22-2009, 08:34 AM
WELL-BUTRIN I THINK THATS HOW ITS SPELT MIGHT BE A E N BUT EITHER WAY 150 MG A DAY IS A GOOD STARTING POINT.
ARE YOU HAVING MOOD SWINGS.
03-22-2009, 10:11 AM
Look, if you were prescribed anti depressents before by a doctor then as you have stated yourself there may be a real issue you are dealling with. Do not try to self meicate yourself. You are not a doctor and mental health is not something to mess with. Go to a doc and talk to him. Be open and honest, tell him your history, where you are at, and what your expectations are. There are so many different medications availabe that I'm sure one can be found that you would be happy with. Antidepressents may may or may not be what a person needs, but a doc should make that decision. When were sick we take vitamin c or sudafed or Tylenol, if we have an infection we take antibiotics, when we want to get big we take supplements, so it only make sense to take the help for our mental health when indicated.
03-22-2009, 02:03 PM
hell of a response copycat. puts a different perspective on things for me.
03-22-2009, 02:05 PM
03-22-2009, 02:13 PM
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE
Strongest On The Market
RECOVERBRO: Est. Post #3222
03-22-2009, 07:27 PM
The thing with Anti depressions are really a hit or miss.
Im in the medical field also, and have seen many patients wrongly diagnosed. Once on an anti depressant, it opens up the flood gates for other meds to be tried. (Anti depressant wise.)
No illnesses can truly be diagnosed, there are just drugs that supress certain symptoms that Docs look for.
If drugs cured things, there wouldnt be all these companies competing. Above that, the cure for cancer would already be released. Think the moment cancer cure is out, how much money drug companies and others will lose.
Food for thought, go home and chew that!
05-09-2009, 04:27 PM
Indianballer, I know exactly what you are talking about. I had been on anti-depressants SNRI's and SSRI's) for about 3-4 years continuously and recently moved onto something else that helps me much more. But hormones (even when a proper pct is followed) can mess with neurotransmitters in those who are prone to depression, so I'd stay off for a while and do it naturally. I did the same thing until I realized my mental health was more important than gains in the gym... cause if you don't have it, the gains won't make you feel any better about life.
For anyone who is considering an anti-depressant, I would make SURE to tell your dr. that you only want to be on it for a SHORT period of time... continued use of anti-depressants cleave off the dendrites in your brain and basically give you a chemical lobotomy... hence many users feeling "cloudy" and "emotionless". It can sometimes lead to anhedonia (no emotions at all) and linger for a few years, of which I am experiencing after running that gauntlet of SSRI's and SNRI's (which doctors push like candy).
Remember that EVERYTHING in your body has a natural negative-feedback loop... every action causes a reaction, etc... the truth is, is, these drugs act like a low dose of ecstacy... flooding your brain with seritonin and actually doing damage over time. It is EXACTLY why addicts that abuse drugs that flood your brain with seritonin often go back on and relapse... because they cant feel anything at all after abuse. SSRI's and SNRI's do much of the same thing, just to a much smaller extent... but when you are on them for an extended period of time (like a year or more) they can also do damage.
I am not one of those crazed alternative health people who regard pharmaceutical anti-depressants as evil... they have their place IF used properly... not a bandaid that covers up the CAUSE of depression. I would REALLY read up about the negative aspects of SSRI's (severe anhedonia, no sex drive, lowered testosterone levels, and a HOST of other things...) I could go into much more, but I would be rambling. As for myself, I have experienced all of these symptoms and more just because my family practitioner didn't know what the f$%k he was doing... it was just, "here... this will help".
All I can say is I will NEVER go on these class of drugs again. I am currently taking Nardil (an old MAOI) and am enjoying life again... this med has a PROVEN track record of success, and the tyramine diet I am finding out is more scare tactics than anything (due to medical proffessionals covering their asses in case someone sues if they get a strong reaction). There are certain things that I have to avoid, but for the most part you have to eat ALOT of really aged products to ever cause the dreaded MAOI reaction. I'd look into Nardil or Parnate... MUCH more reliable than SSRI's and SNRI's (which are proven to only be better than a placebo 50% of the time).
Also, I have been wondering about Stablon as well. It supposedly reversed SSRI-induced anhedonia... but my Nardil is doing great, and I would NEVER want to combine the two...
Indianballer, have you looked into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)? Anti-depressants can relieve your symptoms of depression as a band-aid, and should be used if you are having really bad thoughts (suicide, etc) but will not cure it... just a suggestion. CBT can actually treat the CAUSE of depression, and if yours is mild, I would DEFINATELY look into it before starting an SSRI or SNRI... you don't want to go the backwards route like I did
05-09-2009, 09:58 PM
05-09-2009, 10:02 PM
05-10-2009, 12:20 AM
yeah I'll look into it a little further gutterpump... thanx for the linkage... I've done a bit of research on it and it looks like it would be great to run, but I'm gonna see how the MAOI goes... if it keeps working for me and doesn't poop out, I might stay on it for a little while... I am actually starting to get my emotions, sense of humor, sex drive, etc. back on Nardil... I'm at 45 mg and have been on it for about a month and a half and it just barely kicked in about a week ago and I'm feelin like my old self for the first time in a long time... maybe when I come off of it I'll look into Stablon as a kind-of icing on the cake to get me back to normal (as in before the SSRI rollercoaster ride) since it does have neuro-protective and neuro-generative properties and also helps reverse the damage done by SSRI's and SNRI's...the goal is to be on the least amount of meds as possible while still protecting myself from another bout of depression. I just don't wanna combine another med that might interact with an MAOI... I'll look into it further though.
Btw, that's a great site that you linked... I have gotten a lot of info from there in the past...
05-10-2009, 09:34 AM
You should really try going the natural root with this stuff. It really works, I know from some previous experience.
05-10-2009, 10:12 AM
yeah l-theanine worked well for me. also 5-htp is good.
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