ULTIMA FAQ Guide
- 02-24-2009, 01:33 PM
ULTIMA FAQ Guide
Q: How do I dose it?
A: There seems to have been some confusion over this. Towards the end of the beta's release we retested the formulation after some late additions and made some alterations to the dosing protocol on the bottle. It went out in print form. Basically there is a scoop to which the handle/line comes at about the ? mark. Then there's the full scoop (4/4 so to speak). If you are under 175 pounds or have never used any nootropics in substantial doses before use the ? dose to the handle. If you are below 135 pounds use a half scoop. From here add about 16 ounces of water (12 oz. If the ? dose). You will consume half of the cup 30-60 minutes pre-workout. For best effects (especially with the B vitamins) sip and hold under tongue sublingually for 5-10 seconds, then swallow. Consume the other half of the cup during workout over the course of 30-60 minutes as well.
Q: How long will it last?
A: The product was designed to only need to be used on workout days (assuming at least three workouts a week). Following the above dosing, 30-60 days is expected.
For nootropic purposes consume 1/4-1/2 scoop doing sublingual sips. This would be for a night out on the town, performing well on a test, playing video games, or whatever...
Q: What can I expect?
A: Strength, focus, mind-muscle connection, sense of self, endurance, and performance.
Q: Can you use caffeine with it?
A: There were many questions on caffeine. Ultima has no caffeine. Many products have 200-400mg and people will consume multiple drinks, pills, etc at these doses. This product is meant to break that addiction down and get to the heart of true health and performance. I do believe in a dose of around 60mg. Is shown in studies to be healthy and effective used acutely, not chronically, so I guess that'd be OK (about what's in a 20oz. Diet Mountain Dew). I recommend people get off the caffeine and give this a true go. The transition for the first week can be rough coming off caffeine, which would make Ultima seem to be a culprit...It is not. Have faith. Transition off stims. Transition on Ultima. I recommend not using caffeine (and other stimulants) here due to them being counterproductive to the goals you set out.
Q: The flavor's decent, but can I make it better still?
A: Yes, some add Diet Mountain Dew or Crystal Light Lemonade. The taste is delicious, but has a bit of a medicinal aftertaste. Again some late goodies we threw in really required a bit more flavoring. We sent out extra packs of flavoring to everyone that ordered. Most people like the taste as it is, but we want to please everyone so we'll be forthright. BTW, with the crystal light its really awesome. Ultimately, what matter's most is performance. We got that.
Q:Can I add other nootropics?
A: ALCAR, Tyrosine, Sulbutiamine, Piracetam, Aniracetam, modafinil/provigil, and a number of others have been discussed. I think it is OK to experiment with these additions, but carefully. Use on at a time, in modest doses. If you never used nootropics, for God's sake, do not full dose Ultima, add all these nootropics and thing it will “rock”. I assure you it won't. It will be overstimulating making you either wired or tired. If you are experienced, Ultima is dosed that “racetams” seem like a logical addition. Matt has a deal with 72 grams of piracetam with 3 tubs. Piracetam was considered for addition in Ultima, but the GMP manufacturer wouldn't allow it. Do not add other cholines, DMAE (or centrophenoxine) here as there is potent doses of such. These cholines and DMAE can cause sleepiness in high doses to those that are sensitive too them or not experienced in using them. If this ever happens, spread out your doses more and decrease serving per dose until you've adjusted to your “sweet spot”.
Q: How long until the Full version will be out and will there be changes?
A: This could be a number of months off. It's being worked on as these things are very time consuming. Evidence of this would be the roadblocks we ran in to getting this product out as a beta. GMP manufacturers are far, far more stringent and this is noteable. Seriously, it could be the summer. We're not sure. We're not giving definitive timetables anymore as that hurt us last go around. As for changes, yes, there will be tweaks, based on feedback. We are listening to you and will serve to exceed your needs. We want this finely tuned to meet nearly everyone's satisfaction on every front. A lofty goal it is. Quite frankly this product is very expensive to make and it may be “too potent” for some. We may have to ratchet it back some. I assure you for the advanced supplement user (note: this crowd, not the GNC noob – which we'll need to account for in the future) and at this price this is the best deal you're going to find. See the next question...
Q: $50 dollars seems expensive, how is Ultima worth it?
A: First, read the above question. Next see the how long it will last question (30-60 days) then see Matt's graph on bulk costs of the ingredients in Ultima, which comes out to over $70...without packaging, labels, shipping, and combo deals accounted for.
If you wanted to piece together ULTIMA yourself:
Q: What is AACA?
A: N-Acetyl Carnosine.
It has been studied orally and IV, but a bit more indirect...I often had to order full studies to piece it all together. It is resistant to carnosinase, which is the huge benefit or lower dosed carnosine, plus it will have some action as the dipeptide, then when broken down slowly by carnosinase will have a time released effect as it reassembled back in to carnosine again. It is really sweet. Why hasn't it been used? SHEER COST. No obvious direct studies. Carnosine itself isn't clearly studied with performance, mostly with glycation and life extension. Moreover, beta-alanine is studied with regards to performance. A big part of this is a certain doctor does ALL of the Beta-alanine research and he doesn't put much stock in carnosine. Of course, the industry has ran with that...because it is $6 a kilo versus $250. AACA is thousands...so...that's why you see minute quantities being used in eyedrops, further its stability and antioxidant status makes it superior over straight L-Carnosine. When I've cornered Dr. Harris, several times, he doesn't have strong reasons why carnosine isn't the better option, he just says its "overkill", meanwhile beta-alanine requires four times a day dosing. He has stake in carnosyn and now has stake in the "solution", a timed release beta-alanine. Consider this...carnosine has anti-glycation benefit, most likely due to its unique action as a dipeptide in the plasma, however short it is. Large doses, which gets expensive would make that action longer...yes, it may then get broke down in to the singlets, beta-alanine and hisitdine...to get built back up in to the dipeptide. Still seems superior, though more costly...research seems to bear that out. Further, the AACA is acetylated and carnosinase's action upon it much, much slower...causing the circulating carnosine to be elevated over a period of time and with its eventual breakdown will lead to a timed release reassembly of carnosine for buffering in the muscle.
Q: Why no proprietary blend? Is it true they nearly held up the product over the unique folinic acid (note: not folic acid) co-enzyme? Won't this work just get ripped off?
A: Again, there's no random crap here. No guesswork. Everything has its place and reason. One thing that weighs on me is that when safety or legitimacy gets questioned. When we're a practicing clinical MD and an RD that are life extensionists, doing GMP manufacturing, listing everything in a non-prop blend with full transparency and got held up for months due to these ethics...well. We spent two years working on this, testing it, and spending extra on quality control. The FDA, whoever questions it...and it feels like the rewards go to the unethical, because if you're some company that makes up ingredient names, makes up claims, and hides garbage in prop blends it is cool. You can "spike" a completely fake blend with meridia, lasix, D-Bol, viagra or whatever. No one questions it, because no one really can. Ironic. And yet, I do encourage everyone to scrutinize, research, and question the products they use or plan to use. I just get frustrated with some of these other companies...sorry for that rant. There will be a full write-up forthcoming. I already feel like I've revealed too much too soon. So from hence forth I might be a bit more tight lipped. Matt has the basic, marketing-based write-up posted now (above) and that should suffice while we're in beta. I dread how much might get ripped off from the write-up and fake amounts of things like AACA might get listed in a prop blend. We've put show much time, effort and money in to this...
Q: Is the 15mg. Dose of methylcobalamin safe? What is methylcobalamin?
A: It is thousands of dollars per kilo first off. Secondly, it is the active form of B-12, not the standard supplemental cyanocobalamin that is far inferior and cyanide-bound.
The dose is study based and looked to hit orthomolecular amounts. AOR is the only other company on the market to have this form in this dose, and if you know AOR than you know it's safe and it's researched. Oh, and their price? $46.99 for a bottle, that's nearly the cost of Ultima with many, many expensive high-dosed ingredients.
Methylcoblamin is a superstar in the formulation that will give you energy, improve cognitive function, and give you faster firing of synapses (mind-muscle)...meaning strength and coordination. Some multi-vtamin brags of this form, but has 500mcg. (3%) of our dose. You know how we roll? Right? In less than 4 weeks we will feature an exciting write-up on this very superstar ingredient.
Q: What is Trinitine and what makes it so special? Will we ever be able to get it by itself?
A: Trinitine is a fully patented blend with a specific ratio of electrolyte-bound creatine chelates. There has never, ever been a single creatine or blend that matches what Trinitine accomplishes. It's delivery, bioavailability, “bloat-free”, fully-synergistic method of execution is brilliant. Trinitine is covered by multiple patents for its ingredients and tested ratios. It is also being worked out for future scientific study by a peer-reviewed journal and discussed for multiple licensing deals. The industry is taking notice. The best sports nutrition ingredient just got better with this industry first. It's not an empty promise. TRINITINE IS THE CORNERSTONE OF ULTIMA. TRINITINE IS THE TRUTH. (Yes, I grabbed this from my marketing write-up and yes, we have a full write-up, but this is enough for you right now...)
As for Trinitine by itself, yes, that is forthcoming. Matt is working on that as we speak. Look for that very soon. In finished form (no need for betas).
Q: Is this a pre-workout product? How would you classify it?
A: We categorized it that way, to give it a category, but in reality...not really. It's far more complicated than a product that provides transient pumps, stims, and bloat. This ain't that. We left off a number of ingredients like Taurine, Ethyl Esters, Arginine, and Caffeine (or other stims.) for good reason. They are not effective pre-workout, ineffective, or unsafe. My expanded thoughts on arginine are forthcoming outside of this write-up/thread. So to delve deeper, it isn't formulated the way most of these “pre-workout” products are. So it's difficult to therefore classify it that way. It was meant to exploit a pathway by providing all the substrates for true synergy (that pathway in all of its glory is forthcoming as well). Many are using divided doses on off days, or using it before a date, or before a test, or for nutritive life extension purposes, etc. This is good for your body and mind. Both will perform better and be stronger for it. That's different. Truly different.
Q: What other products should or could I take with this?
A: The nootropics were discussed above. Protein is a no-brainer. Beyond that, it's your world, but I would not dose products 2 hours before or after Ultima that have B-vitamins (bars, protein powders, other products that list them) or ones that have magnesium (especially) or sodium / potassium added. There is a specifc ratio of the electrolyte-bound chelated creatines, called Trinitine. The B-vitamins are dosed maximally and are in their most active, co-ezymated forms, of which more coenzymated B's would be too much and the standard supplemental forms actually compete with these and make them far less effective. B6 in the pyridoxine (standard) form is toxic at higher doses because it competes with P5P (active form) for binding. Cyanobalamin (standard) is a cyanide bound inferior form that takes conversion and can be problematic in very high doses. Methylcobalamin is not. R5P is the active riboflavin form...we have those in here, dosed very highly, but research supported and safely. They're essential to the performance of Ultima.
Basically, you don't need to add anything else around your workouts, except a high quality protein post workout, like Xtreme Formulations' Ultra Peptide.
Q: Why is my urination “neon yellow”?
A: Too much Mountain Dew I guess! Just kidding. It is due to the R5P, the active riboflavin. It's is a harmless side effect of large doses of this vitamin. One poster (Peter LeDrew) asked why such large doses? To this Is stated the following:
Orthomolecular is the thought process. And your correct, there are certain people that have deficiencies they're unaware of and can't be corrected with the non-coenzymated forms of the vitamins...meaning they lack the enzymes or the necessary amount. The dosing that is recommended is half and half. And yes, peeing out means you went to full use...and beyond...(and you're right zero side effects whatsoever)...so that's the point. Would you want... Non-ULTIMA? Close to the best? Kind of near maximized? The dosing in the beta may very well be tweaked depending on feedback, but at this point we're happy with what we accomplished here. And it is fine to ask questions. B-vitamins, coenzymated will change lives dramatically and Bruce Ames is right. The enzyme thing I mentioned is real. Much like pyridoxine competing with endogenous P5P and becoming toxic at higher doses through competition at the binding site. This is not the case when supplementing with P5P. Oh and the non-sublingual form (which the few companies that do P5P sell it in...can't think of any sublingual) are poorly absorbed...very poorly according to studies. So, boom...note with what you quoted how only R5P is stable in solution. P5P is in this and sublingual. Methylcobalamin over the cyanide based supplemental form...etc. Oh and the other ones...we've got plans. No worries. The B's are where it is at.
So there you have it. ULTIMA is truly the most scientifically advanced, potentially the most effective supplement ever created. Stop playing with trash products that claim to change genetics or add 10 pound of mass in 5 days. Get smart. Step up to the big leagues with ULTIMA.
We continue to encourage everyone to continue to post his feedback, good or bad. This will help insure ULTIMA gets tweaked in just the right way for the final, wide release
- 02-24-2009, 07:24 PM
- 6'0" 180 lbs.
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I've seen some replies on BB.com, but how about we note some of the products that can be used alongside Ultima.
So far, I've seen ICE from Xtreme Formulations and PRIMAL EAA from Primaforce.
- 02-24-2009, 10:21 PM
- 5'10" 180 lbs.
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02-24-2009, 10:26 PM
Board ModeratorNever enough
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
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02-25-2009, 03:06 AM
02-25-2009, 09:26 AM
02-25-2009, 09:26 AM
02-25-2009, 02:52 PM
- 5'9" 200 lbs.
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02-26-2009, 12:40 PM
02-26-2009, 02:39 PM
LOL, I didnt know you posted here!
02-26-2009, 06:44 PM
02-27-2009, 08:02 AM
02-27-2009, 10:41 AM
Props for actually recommending that people reduce their consumption of caffeine in the writeup!
Never seen that done before, but its something I live by now. Only caffeine I take in is through the 8-12 cups of green tea I drink per day, but its amazing what a difference spacing the caffeine out makes in your mindset and mood.
02-27-2009, 02:15 PM
Well, people never realize how bad caffeine can be until they decide to go off of it...caffeine detox is one nast mistress. Your body is not build to handle 200-800mg per day that many people get from all of these products they use.
05-23-2009, 03:21 PM
where is this ultima? i did a search on nutraplanet and it is not there? i want some!
05-25-2009, 10:13 AM
It is out of stock right now. Hopefully it should be back in about 2 weeks.
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